Bitcoin Forum

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/6a0ac364-d6ef-46a8-949c-03113e49fdaa_zpslwhylpob.png (http://www.4grinz.com)

The Best Bitcoin Casino http://4Grinz.com (http://4Grinz.com) has changed its model to a no-bonus Coin Back one ensuring our players never leave empty handed. Get real bitcoin back with no strings attached.

We've also moved our thread so as not to confuse players with old promos and policies. You can learn more about 4Grinz' new look, new launch, and more generous rewards here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1283663.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1283663.0)

Welcome to the forum!
I tried your website and your support is very fast ::)

Luck with your project!
Your site looks to have tons of games  :o

welcome! its nice to see that more and more new casinos are accepting bitcoins, i hope that your business will have luck in the world of the bitcoin

I'm unable to register from my mobile phone!! I'll try later with PC.

i have a porblem in register i can't entre my birthday year and when i tap register it do nothink

Thanks FanEagle! We do our best, and currently, this new site is run by its founders to ensure every issue is addressed by top tier professionals. If you have any suggestions, let us know and we'll address them.

See you at the games!

i am not entirely sure what is the problem with that but you should try using another browser, try switching between firefox and chrome, maybe that would be the solution for your problem, also keep me updated on whether i helped you or not

Thanks 98problems! We think so too!

i try with chrome and firefox and it's the same the list of birthday year is empty and the register don't work

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We are working on the issue NOW and will announce when it's fixed. So sorry for the inconvenience.  :(

This is not an issue on your end. We are currently working on the birthday issue. You know how it is with websites. Everything works, you make one instcy bintcy change, and KABOOM! Stuff happens. This is a little fix and we'll get it right. Hang in there.

congratulations for entering the bitcoin world!!! im glad that you decided to use bitcoin in your website, i will soon try your website out and write about my experience on it, i hope it will be great

Good luck for fixing the problem ;) and tell me when you finish :p i'm ready to play in anytime  ;D

Thanks GrandmaJean! We look forward to reading about your experience.

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/problem_unsolved_zpsnw7lewso.png (http://www.4grinz.com/register)

PROBLEM SOLVED

4Grinz.com is back to its usual programing. You are free to register. Whew! Thanks for your patience.

cool nice work ;) time to start playing :D
you forget to fix register bouton

Looks good so far, do you have any offers for the forum to try your site out?

Hi lite link. Problem solved, and thanks for bringing the issue to our attention. See you at the games!

I see you're registered. Good work! See you at the games.

That's a great idea tiggytomb. We'll put something together and announce it here.

In the mean time, we encourage you to browse through 4Grinz.com to explore the hundreds of awesome games we have to offer. Play for FREE or with Bitcoin, and let us know what you think.

oww i didn't know ok then see you in the game

Thanks ticoti! We're looking at other developers and have found some really cool immersive games coming out soon. As soon as they pass the fairness test, we'll have them available.

Good luck!
What about some forum promotions? It will bring you more members from here.

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/happy-face-jpg-7109481_zpsgfps8mro.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)

Great, I will have a play about.

I tried and tested the site.. Deposited 1 BTC. since its using coingaming.io platform, i know it can be trusted.
And this is what i got.

http://s12.postimg.org/8ddc81mi1/4grinz.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/8ddc81mi1/)

Now, just waiting for some confirmations on my deposit and will try to cashout. Hope all goes fine.

Will update once i cashedout

Good luck with your website but you should do more promotions like signature campaigns bonuses twitter fb promotion etc

Thanks sbankerdemon! Right now, we're sticking to the Super Launch and our Affiliate campaigns, but they are available for viewing and participation on 37 different social networks... and they're working. We're pretty stoked.

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/jackpot_zpsuq9dpka5.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)

CONGRATULATIONS MillionsBTCdev aka Kreeypto! YOU WON!!

Not only did you win a jackpot, but you broke the record by doing so in 11 spins playing Energoonz. That's amazing.

Wanna' know why your withdrawal isn't available? Get this. Because we went ahead and credited your account with 1 BTC while your deposit confirmations were still pending. As soon as those are confirmed, you'll be able to withdraw.

Yes. You read it here. From all of us here at 4Grinz, welcome to our family and enjoy all that Bitcoin!

See you at the games!

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/e4002739-6ed9-4441-8e80-d92f521234f2_zpsmrzcumkq.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)

CONGRATULATIONS Maximumm!!
YOU WON three times in a row for a grand total of 4,869.75 mBTCs! From all of us here at 4Grinz, welcome to the family and we'll see you at the games!

Thanks for the greetings and yeah i usually play energoonz on other sites. Kinda lucky to hit something big on the early spins, usually i hit big on later spins. But anyway, my deposit is confirmed and i went on ahead cashedout. It is now Pending for approval.  ;D

Will update once i received..

I will give this some trys.

website looks great,  good luck

Just some update.

I have received my Cashout of  3.4412 BTC from my 1 BTC deposit.
https://blockchain.info/tx/8c455bc2d1ce451e80dcdb0daf948064804a9fa8239f57fc7b6e5a40f2cb0d55

I've also talked to their support, who is very kind and approachable. Thanks 'Charlie'

Awesome support, my cashout took awhile, and he took a step further to make sure my withdrawal goes tru right away.

I appreciate the help.

Thanks

Thanks IDKwhatimdoing!! We dressed the place up ourselves. Trying to keep it simple without looking cheap. The lighter the site and the less Flash and heavy widgets, the faster it loads and the plays.

See you at the games!  

Look forward to seeing you at 4Grinz.com minerboob1! And know that you can take almost all of our games for a spin for FREE before playing with real mBTCs. If you decide to play for realz, we have the most generous 110% Welcome Bonus on first deposits.

See you at the games!

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png (http://www.4grinz.com)
We appreciate you playing with us, and what about that win!! But, before running away with all that bitcoin, be sure to review our Terms and Conditions. Ha! We're kidding. There are no strings attached when it comes to winning big at 4Grinz.com.

There are still over 1,000,000 mBTCs in jackpots just waiting to be won, and some of our progressives have been building up for months. Don't keep this news all to yourself. Tell your friends that you WON, and be sure to mention it was at 4Grinz.com.

From all of us here at 4Grinz, we'd like to congratulate you again on this epic win and wish you and your new bounty the very best.

See you at the games!


The 4Grinz Team

your websites looks nice and professional welcome to the forum but people dont like registration for playing many sites offer instant bet without any registration to the website and instant widthdraw and deposit without registration

Super Launch Giveaway
Get 10 FREE mBTC just for registering!

In celebration of its Super Launch, 4Grinz.com is giving away 10 FREE mBTCs to 50 registrants each week. Sign up anytime. It takes less than a minute to register, there are no complicated forms or need to disclose personal information, and no obligation to qualify.

Drawing results will be announced each Tuesday at 12 PM (noon) CST on Facebook.com/4Grinz. Winners will also receive a congratulatory email with simple instructions to login at 4Grinz.com, click the “chat” button, and request 10 FREE mBTCs for real play from a live friendly customer service representative.

Register now in one step, then be sure to check your email inbox on Tuesdays for 4Grinz Super Launch winner announcements.

How to be the lucky guys? I am just wondering and registered.  :D

Hey Fox!!

You are taking all the right steps. Go ahead and find your favorite game :) You are already in for next week's  drawing.

Wow the casino has an incredible variety of games and a beatiful design.
Just one quastion. Where is the information about house edge?

hm. are you guys related to dadice or the dead marketing "company" mixedideaz in any way?

Thanks for your inquiry. 4Grinz is powered by Coingaming.io, the first online Bitcoin Casino to be granted a gaming license in January, 2014. Our game developers are the best in the world, and all our games have been compliance tested for fairness and certified by Gaming Labs for GLI Standards. All of our games have undergone rigorous testing before being added to our hand-picked assortment for your entertainment pleasure.

We've also been reviewed by respected gaming sites;
GamblingWithBitcoins - http://gamblingwithbitcoins.com/4grinz-review/
BitScan - https://bitscan.com/directory/4grinz.com
BestBitcoinCasinos - http://www.bestbitcoincasino.com/coingaming-ups-services-of-new-bitcoin-casino/
 
What sets 4Grinz apart from the competition is its seasoned team of gambling professionals with a gift for innovation. The founders of 4Grinz are not only Bitcoin people, they have more than 35 years combined experience in US brick-and-mortar casinos, major brand gaming tours and productions, gaming coordination, gaming media and research, and online gaming.

Bottom line, you're safe with us and our lines of communication are always open if you have any concerns or inquiries.
 
See you at the games!

Hi There shitaifan2013

No we are not related.

thanks for your fast repsone.

but since you didn't really answer the question of tsoPANos, what's your house edge?

You are right i missed that, we have a low edge less than 2%. :)

Congratulations on a beautiful site  ;D ;D

Well Thank you so much Darknessdr :)

You are welcome to stick around.

I will try. see you

i new register very fast load site
username:joclixal

Good luck, nice deposit bonuses.   They site looks nice.  I will try it later today when I have some free time and report back.   I like the fact that your design isn't the same as a lot of casinos that have popped up lately.

We see you! :) Check your mail!

Any plans to accept other cryptos in the future? CLAMS would be a good one.

Less than 2 but greater than? There are a few sites just like this one.  I missed the provably fair verification too do u have a link?

HI Altcoin4life !

So yeah it's below 2% it does range between 1% and 2% staying for the most part under 1.5% depending on the game, for a complete breakdown by game you can go here http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/ and as far as provably fair goes there are providers are internationally recognized for using best practice programs to regulate fair play like GLI standards under which we abide. :)

so it's NOT provably fair. why not guys?  :-\

bitcoin offers you such awesome ways of making your casino worthwhile for players. for 35 years of experience combined this is quite poor.

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png (http://www.4grinz.com)

Hello shitaifan2013, thank you for allowing us the opportunity to respond. We take all inquiries seriously, regardless of one’s username. Since you’ve postured yourself as a fellow iGaming expert, and in the best interest of this discussion, we’re going to accept your challenge in disproving the all-encompassing necessity of Provably Fair by putting our cards on the table and letting this forum decide the better hand. In regards to the house edge, we’ve addressed this with you several times. Ours, at 1.5% or less, is far better than that of casinos back in the day offering 15 - 18%, and right on track with newer ones of today. Our revenue is generated by volume, not individual play, which means we have to work hard to make a profit. Thus, our players enjoy larger payouts more often. In the short-term, this doesn’t always work in the house’s favor, but in the long run, it allows us to run a reputable gaming platform and set an industry standard.

The Provably Fair algorithm in laymen’s terms is an application great for calculating the randomness of dice rolls - those little cubes with only six sides. Its hash identifier and algorithm is easy for the player to wrap his/her head around because there are only two dice, or six-squared possibilities, equaling 36. A hash is a long stream of letters and numbers that is a mathematical problem with a solution that is otherwise very difficult to find, but once the solution is presented, it’s easier to reverse the solution to define an actual outcome. The solution to a hash is a piece of data that applies to the roll. With dice, these outcomes happen more often, giving the player more data to compare, thus proving each roll is random and not rigged. When the same system is applied to greater variables, such as card decks or slots, no provable results have been obtained.

Applying the provably fair system to a deck of 52 cards is nearly impossible, and casino card games are something we at 4Grinz know a lot about. In fact, you’re probably not going to find a team in the Bitcoin casino industry with more knowledge of card games that recognizes the importance of random shuffles and deals. We’ve grown through the evolution of software and hardware companies claiming to guarantee the perfect random shuffle going back to Shuffle Master, Delphi 4, and STL random shuffle methods in live and online casino settings.  

For Provably Fair to perform in only single-deck games, it must calculate exactly 52 x 51 x 50 x 49 x 48, and so on ……x 3 x 2 to come up with 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 possibilities and then attach a hash to outcomes that can be reversed. The question becomes, “How do we or Provably Fair create a hash generator that a player or operator can utilize and apply?” We can't, and neither can Provably Fair. While the way in which a deck is shuffled is paramount, there are much more important considerations, like who is behind the software, who is managing the casino, whether players are able to withdraw in a timely manner, how revenue is being stored (jackpots, casino revenue, and player funds), backend security protecting everyone from hackers and potential viruses, and the use or possible abuse of players’ personal information.  

Flashback to 2008, when three large online poker brands were caught committing fraud. This happened while pro and amateur players were utilizing every possible variation of provably fair software recommended by licensers, created by developers, and sold by a dozen or more commercial providers. In the end, it did nothing to protect players and served as a false flag. While so much focus was being placed on the integrity of a deck, other, more sinister, offenses like viewing hole and river cards were being committed. With today’s technology, such behavior is now easy to identify and there are several companies that offer related software.

A card counter makes calculations based on outcomes. Outcomes are determined by the cards you can see with the deduction of those you can’t see. The randomness of the shuffle is only monitored by Provably Fair, and doesn’t actually ensure the integrity of the deck or decks, but only that the order of the cards differ substantially for each hand. This is great, but how do you attach a hash to so many possible outcomes to provide comparisons establishing fairness? We invite anyone to square and cube the above number to determine randomness in dealing blackjack and poker, and challenge them to provide tangible results. Provably Fair doesn’t claim a fair outcome when applied to one or more decks. Rather, it proves the randomness. While random shuffles are important to online and brick-and-mortar card rooms, what’s happening on the backend is what should concern players. Security has less to do with randomness and more with outcome.

The benefit of a provably fair system is its third-party verification and auditing for cards and dice. Again, the shuffle and roll are important and shouldn’t be discounted, but recently, Provably Fair’s major flaw has been it’s susceptibility to unscrupulous players or competitors who make baseless claims against service operators by implying they cheat. Most players only familiar with the phrase “provably fair” will take such a claim for its word, believing a casino is creating a larger risk, when Provably Fair was never designed for slots or that purpose. While Provably Fair is effective in dice and single-deck blackjack, it’s not an effective tool when applied to multiple decks, shoes, and certainly not slots. Worse yet, the Provably Fair system and its open-source software is responsible for exposing several operators to hacking attempts. This is why Provably Fair is applied separate from our platform and in conjunction with other testing.

If your head hasn’t already exploded from all of this information, we challenge you to take the Provably Fair system a step further by applying the hash algorithm to slots. It’s being attempted, but the outcomes mean nothing. Because the hash will most likely never attach itself to the same outcome produced by (oh, let’s say) 36 lines determined by a wheel with (oh, let’s say) 50 identifiers, times (oh, let’s say) five or more wheels on any given spin, giving you a 0% Provably Fair rate, and merely the appearance of fairness. Finally, we challenge anyone to find a central source behind Provably Fair. Go ahead, Google it.
 
So what is the real solution for players and casino managers hosting more than just dice and blackjack games? Real science, inspections, visual tools, and supervision.

To put all concerns to rest, we’d like to state for the record, 4Grinz does employ Provably Fair, just not directly (for the above security reasons). 4Grinz is powered by CoinGaming.io and scrutinized by Gaming Labs International (GL), and Provably Fair has never been our end-all for establishing fairness - it’s merely an element. We layer our testing to ensure safety, reasonable outcomes, and everyone’s protection from malware and hackers.

Fairness in iGaming and slots has also been established by the big-brand software and product providers like Betsoft, Ezugi, Gamearts, Endorphina, Takisto, and Play-N-Go. Just like IGT solicits trusted developers to provide similar software to brick-and-mortar casinos, our online developers are scrutinized by hundreds of casinos and security experts and pass rigorous testing before each of their games can be licensed.

There are many developers out there, but none as closely monitored as the brands and their products that we offer our players. Coingaming.io provides 4Grinz with additional layers of security, and then 4Grinz security experts ensure all standards are being met. More importantly, our outcomes are compared with all of Coingaming.io’s partner sites and their outcomes daily, and visa versa.

In addition, 4Grinz does the following:
1. Research each and every provider on our site and establish clear lines of communication with immediate access to security reports that flag uncommon outcomes.  
2. Powered by Coingaming, 4Grinz enjoys another layer of management, scrutiny, and access to algorithms that display real-time statistical data 24 hours a day, seven days a week, on demand and at a glance. At anytime, this data can be shared and compared with the software provider with whom we also have direct contact. 4Grinz, Coingaming.io, and the casino game providers are able to review and collect data from each and every play, a series of plays, while comparing several games over short or long periods of time, and then analyze that data to make a determination. Coingaming.io is one of the largest bitcoin gaming platforms having processed a huge sample size of more than 100 million bets (transactions) on its platform. This affords its team the ability to consistently and accurately analyze the expected house edge from the gaming software providers with actual results to ensure the validity of house percentages.
3. Gaming Labs International (GLI) is our preferred testing lab. Why? Because GLI acquired Technical Systems Testing (TST), established in 1993, and its technology - including Provably Fair. We can assure you, GLI, which has owned TST since the online poker meltdown of 2010, is the world's most experienced gaming test labs and internationally recognized testing facilities offering a full range of testing and consulting services to both the iGaming and land-based markets. It doesn’t get any better than that. Finally, when assessing the total value of a service provider, we prefer to talk to a real person.

What does that mean for the player? It means that we know and trust the providers, that the providers are tested, that our standards are tested, and that all of this is monitored in ways like never before. We also communicate with other casinos and providers using the same GL Standard games. This allows us to compare outcomes, address possible concerns, and move forward as a gaming community to guarantee GLI performs at the highest standards.

We invite one to visit an actual GLI facility before coming forth as an expert on iGaming fairness and security. Their labs are strategically positioned around the world, with bases in London, Macau, Manila, Netherlands, Vancouver, and Italy. Each lab works closely with industry operators, software suppliers, and manufacturers. Its jurisdictional regulators verify compliance, ensuring GLI upholds superior technical and new world industry standards. Their website is comprehensive and very educational for one wishing to stay up with iGaming security, safety, and fairness issues.

Best part, they are real people.

This humble author and gaming expert has witnessed several developers and testers challenge each other mentally and physically over the years, with a few of those challenges resulting in more than one concussion. Do we discourage such behavior? No. We just get better insurance, because developers and testers challenging each other at escalated levels is exactly what we want for the protection of our company and our players.

See you at the games!

We are 4Grinz.com

Another link about Provably Fair with some great code examples. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/

I don't think anyone is claiming it is necessary to prove that your games are fair. But when it's free to do so why wouldn't you, unless you want to be able to cheat when luck goes against you?


People use provable fairness in all kinds of games, and in all kinds of ways. To talk about "THE provably fair algorithm" makes it sound like you think there is only one of them.

If you have a slot with 5 reels, and 50 symbols of each reel, that's 50^5 = 312500000 = 2^28.2 different combinations. sha512 produces 512 unpredictable output bits. You only need 28.2 bits of entropy for the 5*50 slot.


You seem very confused. I don't know where to start with that paragraph. A hash function is a function which takes an input string of arbitrary length and returns a output number within a fixed range. There's no way of reversing the function to get from the output number to the input string uniquely, and with a good hash function it's impossible to find any suitable input that hashes to a given output. You kind of used those words, but in a way that makes it sound like you don't really understand the concept.

If you think there aren't any provably fair card or slot games out there, you haven't researched the market you're in very well.


Not at all. You can shuffle a deck using a seeded pseudo-random number generator. There are only 2^226 ways of shuffling a deck of 52 cards. A 512 bit hash has plenty of entropy.


"guarantee" is a funny word. It's a bit like "prove" only without the actual proof aspect. If you guarantee perfect randomness but offer no proof of it, how is anyone ever able to check the randomness to call you on your guarantee?


Forget about reversing hashes. It's meant to be impossible. Think of a hash as a one-way function from input to output. That number you came up with is the same as the 2^226 approximation I mentioned above. Only 226 bits of entropy required.


What is a hash generator? Just use a standard hash function. Like sha512.


These things are all important, true. Casinos can be provably fair and still just run away with everyone's money. It has happened before. Provable fairness isn't a silver bullet. It's simply a way (the only way I know of) for a casino to prove that its games aren't rigged.


None of those poker sites were in any way provably fair. In the case of AB/UB, potripper was using a backdoor that allowed him to see everyone's hole cards. Even if the game was provably fair that could still have happened. The same with Full Tilt stealing player funds. No provably fair algorithm would have prevented that (although regular proof of solvency proofs could have brought it to light sooner, but that's an argument for a different post).
 

There was no provable fairness in those cases, and so it was no false flag. Provable fairness is a simple way of letting the player know that you aren't cheating him games of chance. It doesn't solve all problems, but it solves some that need solving, and which no other technique is known to solve.


I think you really need to try to understand what provable fairness is, and how it works before you comment further on it. You are way off base here.


When you play with 6 decks, you don't use all 6 decks. You shuffle after every hand, and so never deal more than the top say 52 cards from the 6 deck shoe. So long as the top 52 cards are randomly selected from the full 6 decks, the game plays exactly the same as if you had shuffled the whole shoe. If you need more than 512 bits of entropy because for some reason you need to shuffle the whole 6 decks, you can simply use multiple hashes. Use sha512(serverseed:clientseed:0) and sha512(serverseed:clientseed:1), etc. Re. tangible results, be careful what you ask for. It sounds like you're asking for someone to implement the games you offer in a provably fair manner, while refusing to do so yourself.


That's exactly what provable fairness promises. And the randomness determines the outcome. The backend is a black box. Provable fairness publishes the inputs and outputs of that black box as well as the algorithm it runs, such that the player can reproduce the steps it takes and verify that it didn't cheat him. Without that, the player has to simply trust that your dealer hit his 21 against the player's 20 by luck and not due to foul play.


Previous you said it didn't work for cards. Now you say it does?

I've not seen anyone making these baseless claims. Do you have a reference? I see people making baseless claims that "primedice cheat because I lost 10 50% bets in a row". In response the site can tell them to verify their rolls. If they weren't provably fair the player would have no way to distinguish between a run of bad luck and rigged casino.


Most players don't really care about fairness I think. They think of gambling as a way of passing the time and expect to lose. I suspect that the percentage of rolls that are ever actually checked is very low. But the fact that it is possible to check any roll keeps a provably fair casino honest, because they know there's a chance that any cheating will be detected.


I disagree.


Crappy coders write crappy code. I recommend testing before deployment. Maybe ask someone who knows what they're doing to help. What does "applied separate from our platform" mean? Are your games provably fair or not? Nothing needs to be open source. You don't need to publish any of the code that you run on your server. Simply describe the algorithm.


36 lines? You don't spin the lines, you spin the reels. You have 5 reels which each have 50 different positions. That's just 5^50 end positions. Then you check the 36 lines from there. What does it mean for a hash to "attach itself"? What is a "provably fair rate"? What do you mean by "central source"? Does the source of an algorithm matter? I get a strange feeling reading your words. It's like you're using all the right words but in the wrong order. Like you've read a buzzword dictionary but don't understand any of them.


You seem to be trying hard to justify not proving the fairness of your games to your customers. Why is that?


What does "not directly" mean? Either you prove the fairness to your players, or you don't.


That's all very nice, but isn't relevant to the question of why you don't prove the fairness of your games to your customers.


So you trust the game providers, and we have to trust you.

That seems like at least two points of failure.

With provable fairness no trust is required. That's why we call it "provable" not "trusted".

Bitzino did a lot of pioneering work with provable fairness, but their system does have some weaknesses.

The technology has moved on since then, addressing the concerns raised in that reddit post.

Registered...Username: Chuck

Good Luck with the Casino and looking forward for the mail.

Slick Design btw, i like it.


Greetings,

Chuck Bartowski

Any casino that is not provably fair today is behind the times. Its easy and takes all the burden off of you. Someone comes in and loses and cries fowl, you just point to your provably fair system. I would never play at a casino that doesn't use a provably fair system. Why trust someone with your money when you don't have to?

Welcome to the family Chuck! :)

Lee BTC

While provably fair systems apply to dice scenarios, as has been so painstakingly noted by dooglus, it does not apply to a slots scenarios. Provably Fair was never developed, nor intended for slots. Moreover, we don't host dice games at 4Grinz.com. But thank you for that eloquent and detailed breakdown. We hope that dice players find this useful, however, we doubt they will be searching the 4Grinz.com Official Thread for advice on games we don't actually host on our platform.  

You may have overlooked the paragraph that clearly states that 4Grinz is Provably Fair through GL and TST testing, that its providers are tested, and that we continue to measure algorithms daily.
Our point is that Provably Fair is not a system that can be applied in a slot scenario. Anyone that makes such a claim is not only misguided, but misinformed.

Dooglus pointed out several times how sha512 could be applied directly to your slot machine predicament. Sadly, this is the poorest reply I've ever read to such a well constructed dissection of a post.

Your original comments were challenged, as requested, and you respond like this?

4Grinz, this was your moment to gain the confidence of a lot of gamblers. You blew it.

+1 Dooglus, goodbye 4Grinz

Sorry,
TigerTatas

I think you just totally missed my point, for I was saying the exact opposite.

There is no fundamental difference between 'dice' and 'slot' games. In both games you somehow pick an outcome and the player wins or loses varying amounts. The problem is how you demonstrate to the player than you picked the outcome you picked because you had to, rather than because you wanted to. THAT is what provable fairness is all about, and it applies equally to all single-player games of chance.


There is a world of difference between an appeal to authority and actual proof.

You are asking us to trust you, and to trust the people who tested your site, and to trust that the version they tested is the version you actually run.

Provably fair sites don't ask you to trust anything. They say "if you want to check whether your game was fair, follow these steps", and provide a list of steps that you can follow to be 100% certain that your game was fair.

Do you understand the difference?


I don't think you said what you meant to say there, but I agree that you are not only misguided, but misinformed when you say that slots games cannot be provably fair.

Check https://bitcoinvideocasino.com/slots for example. It is a provably fair slot game:


It's not a great implementation since it uses a new pair of seeds for every spin and puts too much burden on the player if he wants to verify each roll, but it does work, and serves as a sufficient example to prove your claim wrong.

This is wrong. You are wrong on more than one account and alarmingly ignorant. Good luck with your scammy casino that runs on "providers" with "tested algorithms", whatever that possibly could mean.

Fascinating and relevant interview with Bitcoin Gambling and Betting Expert, James Canning.

This is wrong. You are wrong on more than one account and alarmingly ignorant. Good luck with your scammy casino that runs on "providers" with "tested algorithms", whatever that possibly could mean.

Now, now, that's not very professional. "This is wrong," is hardly proof that provably fair systems are applied to slots, and a casino that runs on providers using tested algorithms is the point. Isn't it? Seems you were unable to find the resources necessary to back up your original claim that slots are Provably Fair. Stuff happens. Have a nice day, and good luck finding that provably fair slot casino in the sky.

That sentence, no verb.


I just provided (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1130342.msg11957026#msg11957026) an existence proof (https://bitcoinvideocasino.com/slots).

What?  Dooglus posted a provably fair slots game 4 fucking posts above this one you just made.

Also, your condescending and adolescent tone throughout this whole charade is infuriating.

The basis of your response isn't completely wrong. I could explain it, but clearly you wouldn't understand it because the answer already exists in the nature of the provably fair system (and has already been explained tenfold by dooglus).

A new seed automatically gives you a sequence of provable numbers, which is apparently impossible from your stance. This would immediately allow any game to be provably fair. PRNGs are a figment of imagination, then? I suppose pigs also fly now, huh?

You guys are going a little far with this no?

As an outsider looking in I would like to point a "probably unfair" team up of associated board members on this particular thread.
Its fascinating to me that
Dooglas
tryphe
EBK1000
webcris
TigerTatas
 
All coincidentally seem to also be working on the clam client together and obviously have strong dice affiliate associations if not tier 2 direct affiliates
As someone who cans how you how to utilize the server stall method to prevent responding to a client seed I think the following should be noted:

For bunch of smart developers you basically suck at converging on your "enemy"

Although dice respectfully founded and created the bitcoin gaming experience as most things it has been surpassed by the real deal vegas pros that have been developing games since Jimmy Hoffa got buried under Jersey Stadium

Disclaimer: I am an affiliate at both "provably fair" and non provably fair casino including 4 grinz, Satoshibet, Nitrogen, Jetwin and other bitcoin sports books.
If they are pushing slots then they can rig the outcome if they so please. If they are using the big providers like Endorphina, Betsoft, Play n Gothen they need to put up about $100k to get going. In the old days any CS major could develop a game (which is why they needed system like PF to show their fairness because REAL GAMES COST REAL MONEY) that the BTC community would analyze the hell out of until gangs of programmer douchbags ganged up on them with some alternate motive in mind. Such as consistently calling out well developed casinos in order to cast a white light on games like just dice. Don't get me wrong Just Dice is cool as is Satoshi as was Seals with Clubs but if you are going totap the $3 trillion a year gaming market you are going to need a bit more than Java script skills. Not a prayer Just a thought. 

And why should we listen to you? Because you like slots and are a zero post user? Because you like posting accusatory trash?

And no, I'm not going to trust a "provider" when the numbers can be generated by the dice site (or are they already? who knows?) in a more transparent manner. The notion of trusting a system like this is just incredibly stupid.

For you viewing pleasure.

https://youtu.be/t5SMFPMu6xo (https://youtu.be/t5SMFPMu6xo)

Isn't the point of a Forum to listen.
Yes I have 0 posts
I stumbled upon this thread while looking into some details on a new slot promotion by play'n'go which is used at hundreds on online casinos both regular and BTC

Yes I am a slot guy. As someone that has done well in the online gaming world I can tell you that these games both online and in physical casinos generate about 60-70% of the houses money.

I don't like talking trash but as someone who enjoys statistics and gaming found it interesting that of the 10 or so people associated with this thread 5 or more of you all work together and a 50% "player" edge just doesn't seem fair.
Now if you would like to talk about the PF stall method I'm all ears.
Otherwise you and Canton can go back to making printed holiday bitcoin wallets.

Yes, the lack of a provable fair system seems to be a barrier in me playing there at this point.   It seems that with all the pressure being put on you to employ one(even having the logic in which one could be created given to you) that it should be a no brainer.   The bitcoin community tends to stray away from the non-provably fair casinos.   Please put a system in place.

There's a great piece by bitZino (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/) posted in reddit nearly two years ago. If Provably Fair was a system that exploited and pressured casinos into utilizing it for other than testing the fairness of dice games and failed then, imagine its inferiority today. We feel the same as this author and believe casinos and casino software should undergo rigorous testing by regulated organizations. They should have to provide tangible results, not theories. We at 4Grinz are well known and well connected in the gaming industry. Our friends and colleagues play on our site because they trust us (and they know where we live). The team at 4Grinz applied successful models to a bitcoin-only site in an effort to introduce cryptocurrencies to others in the industry. So, that's what we did, and we rely on GLI, TST, Coingaming.io, and those testers we know are working with online and brick-and-mortar casinos around the world, because Provably Fair is an assumption of safety and fairness, it applies mostly to dice, not slots, and our players deserve better.

Read bitZino's evaluation of Provably Fair, and you decide. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/)

Provably Fair is better than anything out there. False.
It is my firm belief that the current implementation of Provably Fair is harmful to players, because it gives players a feeling of security when such security can be easily be compromised without any notification or warning to the player.
We will just release all played hands to show we are fair. This will not work, nor should it appease players. As stated earlier, many of the exploits will still produce Provably Fair data. Any analysis of the hand data can be compromised, because it is generated by the house. Secondly, it distracts the player away from what is really important: is Provably Fair actually provable?
Take for example, roulette. If a house wanted to cheat at roulette - say to produce a string of 15 black - it can do so using one of the exploits. For every switched roll from red to black, the server makes a running count. It can do one of two things at this point: a) cheat another player betting black the same number of times, b) generate fake data and insert reds in equal number to the running count. In any case, it will have to generate fake green plays to maintain the predicted spins. Either way, the plays will offset. There is nothing stopping the house from generating millions of additional "fair" hands to make the probabilities converge to their theoretical, published rates.
Conclusion

These are just a few ways that a house could exploit a player by circumventing the Provably Fair concept. All of the code prior to any exploit is written in a fair and legitimate manner, but is then compromised during the normal course of play using AJAX and HTML partials. None of the initial static files are modified. That's the hidden beauty (if you can call it beauty) in these exploits.
Cryptography is hard. The basic elements of Provably Fair - Mersenne Twister, the Secure Hashing Algorithm (SHA), or any of the pseudorandom number technology - are not compromised. It's the way in which they are structured that is extremely weak. In the words of Bruce Schneier, "And just as it's possible to build a weak structure using strong materials, it's possible to build a weak cryptographic system using strong algorithms and protocols."
The analysis presented here examined a specific implementation of a browser-based "Provably Fair" system. Other implementations of this concept will vary from site to site, and may or may not exhibit similar vulnerabilities.

^ everything you just posted can still be provably fair by using a nonce value. That way, you can't seek ahead in the number sequence, otherwise the client will know (because their end result was not your result). As for the user picking hi and lo, you could also assign "hi" to black, and "lo" to red. Or, *gasp*, you could let it be at the discretion of the user.

Why are you just insistent on posting relentless garbage? Don't you want your site to be fair to your user base?

This is what I would like to see more of here. People stepping in and proving these non-provably fair bitcoin casinos are scammers. This (I assume) owner of 4grinz just had a public meltdown and showed his/her true colors. I just wish you dudes were doing this in all the non-provably fair casino topics. The thing is when these kind of casinos want you to win you will win big. When they want you to lose? It can go on for MONTHS or until you are homeless. At least with provably fair you know it's bad luck and bad luck only. The trick is to know when to hit & run these corrupt casinos. Though, many have tried and failed.

These non-provably fair bitcoin casinos are the most greediest and corrupt online casinos i have ever seen. Yes, even more scammy then all the other fiat online casinos i have ever witnessed going back 15+ years. They prey on kids and they finally caught on that there are a lot of kids who are naive and lack experience that are using bitcoin. It took these corrupt sleaze balls a good amount of time to hop on the bitcoin train and i'm afraid they will never leave as long as they have a good flow of new users. If they dare post their corrupt casino on bitcoin talk we can at least save some naive people.

It seems you've missed our post in this cumbersome thread. We have a system in place. Actually, several systems. 4Grinz is powered by Coingaming.io, which means it is already certified "Provably Fair," and our games, along with eight other online casinos are hosted on a shared platform. 4Grinz and Coingaming.io took that security a step further with GLI and TST testing. It's not that 4Grinz is not utilizing provably fair systems, it's that any tester will tell you, provably fair systems work best with dice, create terrible and false results for slots, and such games should be tested on several levels and then monitored in real-time. That's what they did. That's what we do. Our security is layered, and not just when it comes to slots, and we monitor and flag any unusual activity.  

On top of that, we don't collect player personal information. We offer two-tier login security with Google Authenticator. Player funds are kept in cold storage and don't linger on the site. Jackpot revenues are kept separate from player and casino revenues. Withdrawals are immediate and in full.

On a lighter note, we're always searching for more cool games and we've found another major-brand provider. We love HD cinematic slots and want to focus on the entertainment experience, ensuring extended play and immersive interaction so players can get to know the hundreds of charming and funny characters, like the ones you meet in WhoSpunit, Mr. Vegas, When Night Falls, Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde, and Gypsy Rose to name a few. Every game is different. Each has its own unique quality and story to tell. All must go through regulated testing. All must pass GL Standards, and all will undergo real-time monitoring by gaming experts at 4Grinz.com.

Slots are less about gambling and more about entertainment. Slots are a way to relax and unwind. They provide more than just a gambler's adrenaline rush. They're real games.

That's the future of gaming. That's the future of 4Grinz.com.

Another straw man. "Don't we want our site to be fair to our user base?"

Creating a false narrative and asking us to argue it is senseless. The insinuation is baseless. For the record, of course we want our site to be fair. That was the mission statement before building 4Grinz. Our site is not only fair, it's proven fair by real experts and software, including the outdated and untrustworthy Provably Fair systems.  

For fucks sake, a certification doesn't account for anything. If I have a certification for something, that means absolutely squat; other than someone printed that piece of paper. What counts is showing your players that you aren't cheating them, not some bullshit certification.

I suppose "numbers and science and Bitcoin are too confusing to be real and secure" too, huh?

I rarely say anything outside my own business, but calling provably fair outdated is tantamount to blasphemy. Good luck.

Proven fair how?

You haven't answered this simple question. Yet you keep implying that you can and will. If the players can't reproduce the number series that the game also used, it's not proof.

Also, my insinuation isn't baseless because it's already in your best interest to fudge the numbers to be sleighed towards the house. How do I know you aren't cheating me? Because you act like it hurts you to and you have a pretty certification? Sorry, but it's just a joke.

(yes, even after pages of posts have proven you wrong, note my correct use of the word "prove")

I'm unfamiliar with the term. Are you referring to this in Trevor Xavier's piece on reddit?


If so, that's one of the many problems with old-school provably fairness that is not a problem with the modern systems. If you reload at Just-Dice, PrimeDice, PRCdice, or any other reputable modern provably fair site you will have the same client and server server seeds as before you reloaded. The aim of provable fairness is to make it impossible for the casino to *undetectably* cheat the player. To that end, this "stall method" no longer 'works'.


I don't know who Cantor Becker is. I put clamaddress.org up this morning and immediately received a bug report that it wouldn't work on iOS. I found that a fork of bitaddress.org (https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/bitcoinpaperwallet/generate-wallet.html) by Cantor Becker had already fixed the problem so I took his fix, added it to my site, and added his name to the copyright notice, since I had used some of his copyrighted open source code. I very much doubt he is in any way involved with Just-Dice or CLAMs.


What makes you think that evaluation is "bitzino's"? It isn't. It clearly isn't.

It's not clear to me whether you are playing dumb here or not.


I found this thread when someone at Just-Dice drew my attention to it. After having made my first reply, I posted a link to it in the chat there, because I found some of what you were saying astonishing. That's presumably why so many people from the Just-Dice community posted replies here. No conspiracy, just a bunch of people who understand how provable fairness works trying to help you understand. Whether you want to or not. ;)


I don't know what "tier 2 direct affiliates" means. Sounds like some kind of unpleasant marketing term to me.

tryphe and Tiger hang out on the JD chat sometimes. I think I've seen a webchris there a couple times. I don't know who EBK is.

I think it's important to be careful with the language. There's nothing to suggest that his site isn't fair. The issue is that we can't know whether it is or not unless he proves it to us.


Again, we haven't proved any such thing. At worst we've proved that he either doesn't understand provable fairness, or wants to pretend that he doesn't for some reason. Neither is a crime.


It's very hard to tell the difference between a straight house and a rigged one. I know Just-Dice isn't rigged, but we have such runs of good and bad luck that it looks as if it is at times. We had a 6 week period where most big players won their big bets. An outsider looking in could easily think we were doing it on purpose, setting them up for a fall. Then we had a week where the actual site profit was around 9 times the expected site profit for that week. "Variance is a bitch" is the common saying that expresses this phenomenon. It's quite possible that the long winning and losing streaks you see at the non-provably-fair casinos are legit. There's just no way of knowing for sure.


I'm uncomfortable with the conclusion that because a site doesn't offer provable fairness it means they have something to hide. It's definitely a possibility, but it seems unfair to assume it to be the case.

I agree, but the questionable responses are equivalent to "You said I was wrong, but that's not true. But look! A shiny quarter!". He's asserting himself to being correct by leaps and bounds while being quite duplicitous by switching the subject to some unrelated details of his system, and then using that for 95% of rest of the post, while avoiding submitting a valid response to what was quoted. (or not quoted, lol)

"It's not a great implementation since it uses a new pair of seeds for every spin and puts too much burden on the player..."

Provably fair systems are open source, which puts players and their computers at great risk - especially today. If it's not the best implementation, or even a great implementation, then why are we arguing this? The process is disturbing. It pulls data from a player's browser and computer each and every spin. In also puts the burden on the player. 

Where are you getting that quote from? Also, (good)working implementations don't use a new server seed for every roll, and let the client choose a new seed for themselves at their discretion. Which in turn, lets you verify a sequence. Which, by the way, you already said was impossible to do in my "casino in the sky".

We're sticking with GLI - For 25 years, Gaming Laboratories International, LLC has continuously delivered THE best quality land-based and iGaming testing and consulting services with supreme accuracy while reducing time to market. With 21 laboratory locations spread across Africa, Asia, Australia, the Caribbean, Europe, North America and South America, GLI is the only global organization of its kind to hold U.S. and international accreditations for compliance with ISO/IEC 17025, 17020 and guide 65 standards for technical competence in the gaming, wagering and lottery industries. For more information, visit www.gaminglabs.com (http://www.gaminglabs.com).

If you choose not to play on our site, then vote with your web wallet. If you wish to disparage us because we don't use a dice system to measure the fairness of slots, then expect a swift response.

If you'd like to discuss scam sites, then please do so on another thread. This is our official thread meant to answer our player's questions, update them on contest results, and make promotional announcements.

We have gone out of our way to explain that Provably Fair systems were used during initial testing, and they were ineffective when applied to a slots scenario, and for several security reasons, we do not subject our software and platform to systems that put our security and that of our players at risk.

In other words, the "institution" that supplies numbers for you and has your players' money in their best interest, is not in your control. There is no proof.

Thanks for clarifying. There was no need to beat around the bush, though.

Most provably fair sites are closed source. Some aren't. The openness of the source isn't related to whether the events are generated in a provably fair way or not.


Is that why Linux is so much less secure that Windows? Oh, wait.


What happened today?


Try to keep up. You said that it was impossible to make a provably fair slots game, so I proved you wrong by showing you a working example of one. You said it many times, even after I posted the link to that one.


Sigh. It was showing you (and mostly everyone else) that you were wrong. Their choice of provably fair system is poor, but that isn't what we were discussing. You claimed it was impossible so I showed you that it isn't.


I already did.


"dice system"? What are you talking about. Provable fairness is unrelated to dice. It applies to any single-player game of chance, including slots, as I have already pointed out many times. You are really bad at arguing.


You still don't seem to understand the point of provable fairness. The point is that the casino can prove *to the player* that each and every game event was fairly determined. What you seem to have is some figure in authority which you claim has proved to themselves that your games are fair. That proves nothing to the player, since you could be lying about them having looked at your games, and they could be lying about your games being fair. You could also have changed your games since they looked at them, or change them just for your biggest bettors.

Provable fairness is something that happens while players play, to satisfy the players. It isn't a process you do in secret with some company who gives you a stamp of approval. The difference between these two is the word "proof". (Look it up).

I think the point has been hammered home enough times by now that if you don't understand then you never will, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

4Grinz pays a fee for each level of testing in order to receive certification. As with any license, that's where the "interest" ends. GLI has no access or interest in players' money. They don't receive any further commissions. Their "interest" is in comparing several platforms, testing games they understand in ways you couldn't possibly (as a dice expert), and publicly reporting those findings to regulators in an effort to elevate standards, not get stuck in old ones. How you would insinuate that GLI receives a stipend from player losses is slanderous. We'll be sure to let our friends at GLI know this. SMH. (Some people will stoop to any levels just to make their point, even when it's pointless.)  

We're here all night.  8)
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/funny-gifs-south-korean-police-bamf_zpsffmzedtj.gif (http://www.4grinz.com)

I'm not insinuating anything. You're the one that said you could prove it was fair. But you still haven't, despite all of this.

You can't. No one can. (apparently)
The money of your players is placed on faith that you've done the right thing, not concrete evidence.

Once again, thanks for clarifying.

dooglus, I feel confident that all casinos that run the coingaming.io platform are corrupt. Bait & switch that could not be more obvious. All of these coinggaming.io ran casinos have had red flags galore from the start. For instance: bitcasino.io hosting pirated slots. Maybe I should have clarified this. However, you should always side with the players in these kind of cases. You have an owner having a hissy fit the second he/she is questioned. A owner that is in control of peoples money the second they deposit. A casino that is as shady as they come.

Now, I do not want to be lynched here as you are well respected on this forum but one could say you do the same provably fair or not: prey on kids. Maybe that's why in my case you decided to not side with the player?

I'm not siding with the casino. I think the guy who is speaking for them is either badly misinformed or deliberately deceptive. But I don't think it's fair to jump from that to "any therefore he's a scammer". For some reason he is unwilling or unable to understand how the idea of provable fairness could help his business, and that is concerning.

It's like the difference between a casino saying:

  "we have 1000 BTC put aside to pay out jackpots - look, here's the address, here's a signature proving we control that address"

and a casino saying:

  "we have 1000 BTC put aside to pay out jackpots - we don't want to show you where, but look, here's a certificate saying we have it"

Which one would you rather play at?

Does 4grinz publish their cold storage address by the way? I don't think anyone asked about that yet.

Satoshibet has provably fair slots! And SwissSoft has some. I will only play @4Grinz if I win 10 free mB

no published cold wallet yet, afaik. but so far I didn't bother them with that additional topic, since theyre not taking investments.

though it would be nice, if they could prove the almost 900 btc max jackpot announced on their site  ;)

It's probably something like 100 jackpots of 9 BTC each, like that other old-style casino that was advertising 60k jackpots. The advertised amount is the total of all the jackpots, not an actual amount they have available to win.

yep, that's what I expect too.

maybe it is time that we as a crypto gambling community start to engrave our shared visions of industry-wide minimum standards into stone to help new operators set up their business with those requirements.

at least I feel like almost everyone who has been in crpyto gambling for a while would appreciate stuff like signed cold wallets, verifiable provably fair methods etc.

A Crypto Gaming Commission :D 

We could sell certificates maybe?

"Certified Provably Fair"?

Then the people who think that appeal to authority proves something could proudly display their certification for all to see.  ::)

no, nothing lawskyesque  ;D

I was thinking more of a guideline that helps new operators from getting ripped apart in here at first sight while still benefiting players

I was more thinking along the lines where Doog was headed :D.

me too ;) isnt that what lawsky is doing? setting up the licensing rules and then found a company that helps opertors in applying for that license( for money ofc)

Sounds like a great deal!now we should put it in action

Thanks for the plug. ;D  Dean did also say that his provably fair slots should be implemented in the near future.

@4grinz: still here? if so, you might wanna check out https://bitbandit.eu/

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/Superlaunch_zpsx4kl6keh.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com/register)

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Will the drawing be provably fair?

Do you mean the drawing of the free 10mbtc? If so I think it is not too important to be provably fair because it is free, but of course it will be better if it is provably fair. Perhaps they use something like random.org to draw the winners.

haha...  I thought it would be more obvious I was joking.

btw if use random.org its almost provably fair XD good luck all, btw this contest until sept is it.

Using random.org is fair, but not provably so, because there's no way of proving that you did it only once or that you're using the real random.org site.

You could video the draw multiple times and pick the one you like best, or you could modify your local DNS to make random.org go to your own rigged clone of random.org.

To be provably fair the unpredictability needs to be repeatable, so that everyone can independently verify it.

Maybe you were joking too. Your idea of "almost proof" should have given it away I guess.

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I will never win again ::) it's ok :D

Thank you for the great Support, seems to be always available when you need it, friendly responses and helpful.

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Congrats Charlie Brown.

Got my 10mBIT fast thanks ! ;-)

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Registration for Super Launch started July 1st, 2015, and drawings will continue throughout summer. Results of Super Launch drawings will be announced each Tuesday at 12 PM (noon) CST on Facebook.com/4Grinz and all winners receive a congratulatory email with simple instructions on how to claim their 10 free mBTCs. The Super Launch is one of many promotions 4Grinz will be rolling out over the next few seasons, and for exciting announcements on this and others, Like 4Grinz on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/4grinz (https://www.facebook.com/4grinz) and Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/4Grinzcasino (https://twitter.com/4Grinzcasino).

Here are five different sites, not only making such a claim, but actually running provably fair slot games. So who is misguided and misinformed here?

1. https://houseofchance.net/

https://i.imgur.com/PXvUW2d.png

2. https://www.satoshislot.com/

https://i.imgur.com/pDsTpuM.png

https://i.imgur.com/VTVHc0v.png

3. https://bitcoinvideocasino.com/slots

https://i.imgur.com/8ZYlUJr.png

4. https://bitzino.com/slots

https://i.imgur.com/4qKr0KO.png

https://i.imgur.com/VgkPqp0.png

5. http://fastbets.io/fair-fruit

https://i.imgur.com/YsFfuWy.png

https://i.imgur.com/3G4giyi.png

I already sent them an example (bitbandit.eu) one or two days ago, but it appears they're just going to ignore everything and everyone that makes sense from here on now.

time for the neg rep ;)

If this is so then is it time to neg rep everyone here that dont have provably fair? bitcasino.io dont have it either as long as the other site. Also I read some issue here about cold storage, there are many others that claim to give alot of jackpot, then is it time to neg rep them as well? Perhaps dooglus need to do some proof of dooglus provably fair certificate  :P

if you wouldn't just spam crap for your signature campaign, you would have realized that the difference in this case is, that they're claiming to be provably fair, while they're not.

If you would take 1 minute to look at the bitcasino.io thread than you would have realized that they claimed to be provably fair as well but then after caught lying they said it is a mistake, wash their hands and move on. If this one is going to get neg rep then bitcasino.io should too for not being honest

few provably fair boring slots or BIG FUNNY SLOTS FROM BIG  PROVIDERS LIKE BETSOFT,NETENT? The BIG ONE

Lmao, I support you, those provably fair slots are boring and shitty, we lost money on them, when I play in those slots of BIG PROVIDERS LIKE BETSOFT,NETENT, although they are not provably fair, they are still funny and profitable, so we can see which ones are better?  :D ;D

Not all sure about proof of fair, will this make it if I can win more often  ??? ??? ??? ???

actually not, i have played those provably fair slots, and I busted very soon, I think those shit slots have 10%-20% house edge, those non-provably fair slots of famous providers have 2%-7% house edge, much lower than those provably fair slots, provably fair slots just can show you the fairness, don't give your profits, which ones do you like?  :D ;D

provably fair means, that you can check/prove if the casino is cheating you.

Hi, happy to see my name is there, and got 10mbtc, I got the email and it says I need to send I won! in chat box, I sent it but no response for a long time, are you offline now?  :(   

Edit: just got my bonus, thanks.

I see your casino has 30X rollover 110% deposit bonus. It is very very awesome, even better than industry standard 35X rollover, I think you will attract more players in the future, good luck.  :D

You can calculate the house edge of a provably fair slot. They're usually between 1% and 2%.

You can't calculate the house edge of a non-provably fair slot. You have to take the provider's word for it.

My point wasn't that these games are prettier, faster, more fun. My point was that at least 5 provably fair slots *exist* despite OP's claims.

Aha, I know your point, but my point is that people prefer playing funny, famous slots, although they are not provably fair cause in fiat world, casinos and players don't care about provably fair.

Btw, Are you really sure those provably fair slots have 1%-2% house edge? In real play, it is very very easy to bust the bankroll if play those slots.

On the contrary, the slots of big providers have prove their transparency since every big fiat casinos have those games, free spin, bonus round and huge jackpot are much better than provably fair slots.

Irony , people dont care about things being fair or not however this is irrelevant because this site isnt solely a fiat casino


Transparency of what? There isnt any transparency apart from a shiny badges to flash that the game is provided by the XYZ game provider. Having a freespin, bonus rounds and big jackpot isnt a transparency either because in the end it will depends on the bankroll of the site.  This isnt a true fairness at all btw


The disability of proving if your game is fair or not isnt the true fairness. True fairness is when you can verify the bet of your own not because of being told that this game is fair because there are alot of people that has played it or alot of sites that use it.

Try to follow:

OP was asked why his slots aren't provably fair.

He replied that it isn't possible to make provably fair slots games.

I countered by showing him 5 examples of provably fair slots games.

So now what is the reason?

Your argument that provably fair slots games are boring is moot, because provable fairness is independent of other features. So provable fairness could be added to a funny, famous slots game. So long as it actually was a fair game, and not cheating.


Which of them have you played? As I say, it is possible to calculate the house edge.


Transparency isn't the same thing as popularity. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there. You seem to have a bunch of unexpressed incorrect assumptions. Maybe all provably fair games are boring so far, but if so that's because nobody with the required skill to make an engaging game has made their game provably fair. That's not the fault of the technology.

I think I understand where 4Grinz misunderstanding is coming from. It looks like they only use the large providers ie. Endorphina, BetSoft, Play'n'Go etc. The reason that they are saying that their slots are not provably fair is because the big providers do not offer this option at all because they don't need to AND it would be really hard to. They are independently tested as they said etc.This was also confusing to me because I have played on Betchain in the past and saw some of the same games.I reached out to them because the "cool" "fun" games that fox mentioned did not have the option to test and it looks like they are playing dumb because they are projecting themselves as provably fair casino when in reality I think that most of their revenue will slowly change to the "cool""fun" games. Here is my ticket:
http://imgur.com/gallery/eIOKPyw/new

So in the end I feel like this goes back to Fox's comment. Most major online casinos have been trusting these providers for years. I do not think that any of the casino's offering these games would even be able to modify the spin as the feed comes straight from the provider. If you think you have the math skills I would love for someone to break down the variable options on a game like "who spun it"https://www.betchain.com/games/betsoftgaming/375 (https://www.betchain.com/games/betsoftgaming/375)  Either way this really has nothing to do with the 4Grinz main info feed. I am suggesting a new thread on this where everyone can weigh in.
 

Assuming we trust the provider, how can we verify that the value they use is really from the provider?

Because you are actually playing on the providers platform NOT the casino's. I do not think the casino can actually change or even access the game while it is running.Its basically an API.

Here you go:
http://www.softswiss.com/software/
http://www.softswiss.com/company-news/softswiss-certified-by-itech-labs/

softswiss can be provably fair, thanks to dean

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=910134.msg12006904#msg12006904

Right. This goes back to my conversation with Betchain as well. Baccarat, Aztec Magic etc are all available on their site (30 or so) as provable fair as well. HOWEVER THEY SUCK and are really boring one dimensional games. On the flip side as Dean is actively advertising his casino for sale I can see the need to expand beyond dice. The big providers that have the really interactive games have not moved on this issue.Maybe we should reach out and ask them why.I'll email softswiss and ask direct. Maybe others could reach out to the providers as well.

Here is yet another example
https://www.bitcoinpenguin.com/system/comfy/cms/files/files/000/000/040/original/Bitcoinpenguin_RNG_Certificate_26062014_1.pdf

I would go out on a limb and say that these guys are relatively large despite being new. They actively advertise on their main page www.bitcoinpenguin.com that they are provably fair and to prove it show the exact same itech certificate that 4grinz was talking about from coingaming

In reality the same games that pocket rockets has hand selected are really the only ones that have this option. Everything else is based on this certificate and again are exponentially more fun to play.
It can also be seen with the providers (same) at places like unibet ($300 million per year revenue)
https://www.unibet.co.uk/terms#section-12

and

bovada formerly bodog
https://poker.bovada.lv/get-started/poker-security

Couldn't register by mobile phone?

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/Superlaunch_zpsx4kl6keh.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com/register)

WEEK #5 Sign Up and Qualify for 10 FREE mBTC - No obligation

Bitcoin online casino 4Grinz.com http://4grinz.com/casino (http://4grinz.com/casino) is celebrating its grand opening to players around the world with its Super Launch by giving away 10 free mBTCs to 50 registrants each week. Simply register at 4Grinz.com anytime. There's no obligation. Registration is a simple one-step process and can be completed in seconds with just an email address. There's no need to divulge personal information.

Drawings for 50 winners of 10 FREE mBTC will take place each Tuesday through September. If you don't win this Tuesday's Super Launch drawing, no worries, your username will be tossed back into the hat for the next week's drawings.

Registration for Super Launch started July 1st, 2015, and drawings will continue throughout summer. Results of Super Launch drawings will be announced each Tuesday at 12 PM (noon) CST on Facebook.com/4Grinz and all winners receive a congratulatory email with simple instructions on how to claim their 10 free mBTCs. The Super Launch is one of many promotions 4Grinz will be rolling out over the next few seasons, and for exciting announcements on this and others, Like 4Grinz on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/4grinz (https://www.facebook.com/4grinz) and Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/4Grinzcasino (https://twitter.com/4Grinzcasino).

Where you able to register? Mobile had a hiccup that night, we missed your message.

LeeBTC

how wagered needed before balance able to withdraw? it's safe because i dont see buton logout, that's mean i dont need logout, it's automatic maybe

rollover is 30X I remember, it means that you need to wager 30X10mbtc = 300mbtc, rollover is lower than standard 35X-50X industry rollover, we can try our luck here.

Hi Bajing ! Hey Fox19891989.!! good to see you!!

Yes the rollover is 30 times a bit lower than most, which im pretty sure has the competition grinding a lil teeth... =)

The logout option is on the Menu button right in the middle , you go all the way down. =)

Hope to see you all playing after the drawing.

LeeBTC

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png (http://www.4grinz.com/register)

Congratulations to Week 5's lucky Super Launch winners! Check your inbox for a congratulatory email with details on how to claim your 10FREE mBTCs. Don't worry if you didn't make the cut this week. Qualifiers go back into next Tuesday's drawing. If you haven't registered, what are you waiting for? You don't need to provide personal information, you certainly don't have to make a deposit, and there's no obligation to enter. Register now! http://www.4grinz.com/register

WEEK 5
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Look for you congratulatory email with instructions on how to claim your 10 FREE mBTCs.

Registration for Super Launch started July 1st, 2015, and drawings will continue throughout summer. Results of Super Launch drawings will be announced each Tuesday at 12 PM (noon) CST on Facebook.com/4Grinz and all winners receive a congratulatory email with simple instructions on how to claim their 10 free mBTCs. The Super Launch is one of many promotions 4Grinz will be rolling out over the next few seasons, and for exciting announcements on this and others, Like 4Grinz on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/4grinz and Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/4Grinzcasino.

3 days for our next drawing! Register now!

Welcome to the 4Grinz Family!

LeeBTC

Come on, it's 4 weeks I'm not winning :)

I will win today waiting for for a congratulatory email :)

That is the attitude Joksim299!! 3.5 hours away of announcing winners! come Register!

General question::

What is your favorite game??? =0)

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/Screen%20Shot%202015-07-01%20at%2021.56.27_zps2yo1qoa2.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/wisewalrusPR/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-07-01%20at%2021.56.27_zps2yo1qoa2.jpg.html)



Lee BTC

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png (http://www.4grinz.com/register)

Congratulations to Week 6's lucky Super Launch winners! Check your inbox for a congratulatory email with details on how to claim your 10FREE mBTCs. Don't worry if you didn't make the cut this week. Qualifiers go back into next Tuesday's drawing. If you haven't registered, what are you waiting for? You don't need to provide personal information, you certainly don't have to make a deposit, and there's no obligation to enter. Register now! http://www.4grinz.com/register

WEEK 6
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Look for you congratulatory email with instructions on how to claim your 10 FREE mBTCs.

Registration for Super Launch started July 1st, 2015, and drawings will continue throughout summer. Results of Super Launch drawings will be announced each Tuesday at 12 PM (noon) CST on Facebook.com/4Grinz and all winners receive a congratulatory email with simple instructions on how to claim their 10 free mBTCs. The Super Launch is one of many promotions 4Grinz will be rolling out over the next few seasons, and for exciting announcements on this and others, Like 4Grinz on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/4grinz and Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/4Grinzcasino.

congrats for all the winner i'm not lucky :D

me neither, it's gonna be very very hard to win now.

There are still few weeks left before the giveaway end, so you still have a chance to win. But of course, its all about luck. Wondering how many people register for this giveaway? Even I think many people create multiple accounts to get more winning chance.
I was lucky to be one of the first week winner but unfortunately I busted before I could complete the rollover.

P.S : is there any players won this giveaway more than 1x?

Nope, I was hoping but i already gave up for this week and the next giveaways.

i has won from 10mBTC to 100mBTC  8)
https://i.imgur.com/qR6Smgy.png

nice win. now leave and do not come back. here was my post to bitcasino.io that also runs the coingaming platform just like 4grinz

"I have noticed the coingaming.io platform you use has seemed to have lost their Aristocrat license and I could not be more happier. Those slots are your bread & butter as they are very addictive as you know. I hope you never get them back.

Another thing, for those who do not know, bitcasino.io and a host of other sites use the coingaming.io platform. I did some digging about them awhile ago. The most interesting thing I  found was coingaming.io gives commission to sites that run their platform. One thing that really caught my eye was sites who run this platform get a lot of commission from new players and get less commission from veteran users. In short: coingaming.io openly encourages the bait & switch. I have been looking for a good while to find the link that stated this but I can not seem to find it now. If someone shows interest in my post i'll see if I can find it again."

they will take back what you won AND everything you own if you let them. they have done this to me and many, many others.

Wow, cool, you completed 35X rollover only with 20m(10m depo+10m bonus) bankroll?? Very awesome, congrats dude.

But I remember rollover here was 30X, now also increasing to 35X? It seems that I am late, I should try when it had 30X rollover deposit bonus.

Pretty much just a risk of gambling which every gambler must endure. This happen to all of the gambling sites around here as one cant keep on winning all the time otherwise there will be no one that wants to create a gambling sites. Most people are skeptical when they lose or suffer or lose streak however no one actually make a fuss when they are winning huge ( pretty much weird isnt it )
However what do you actually expect from a non-provably fair casino? unlike a provably fair site, this site provide no ability for the players to verify their own bet .


I'll be glad if you can show me this. Either post here or PM me the relevant proof

coingaming.io is a special kind of hell. heck, they even give you a VIP hostess to talk to! they will do whatever it takes to keep you playing and ruin you. i have more. these coingaing.io casinos are by far the worst i have ever seen.

please can you and fox stop sticking up for these coingaming.io casinos? THEY ARE BAD NEWS.

i will see if i can dig it up and PM you.

BAM

https://www.coingamingpartners.com/affiliates/program.php

https://www.coingamingpartners.com/affiliates/private.php

READ IT ALL

Hi, I seldom play in coingaming platform, thanks for the info, I deposited 50mbtc(get 100mbtc bonus) to mbitcasino which is also coingaming site, and I busted my 150mbtc bankroll because of my  impatience.

i got ya. sorry, i thought you were sticking up for them. i'm going to make it my mission to warn anyone i can. coingaming.io is an extra special crooked casino platform. if i annoy people here, feel free to hit the ignore button.

Very funny, I think I made my stance clear that I despise all gambling sites without provably fair. Im stating the most obvious thing, you cant win all the time or expect to win big every time you play in a gambling sites, not here or not in a provably fair site which is pretty obvious . Gambling sites are made to get revenue for the owner and not everyone is lucky enough to win


Part of a gambling site promotions, otherwise no one will be playing. Again a pretty obvious thing but take into your note that Im not standing up for them despite that I despise them for not being provably fair


All I see is merely revenue shares and nothing all. What I want is a proof that a non provably fair like this one is rigging the site thus making people lose alot. That proof would be neat to shut down all this non provably fair site that depends on their flashy badges of netent or the others

read the damn second link. THE ONE THAT SAYS PRIVATE LABEL CASINO. if you did your research you'd under stand 4grinz, mbit casino, vegascasino.io, bitcasino.io are really just big affiliates. i'm not going to argue with someone who does no research and for god knows why defends this operation.

feel free to hit that ignore button as we are done talking.

Either you are being stupid or funny which is much more likely the former. I did read it and I do know that anyone can start their own casino which again nothing like you claimed

Just to make this clear this is what you claimed


I assume this means that they are rigging your bet as there are no other way for them to take back what you have won unless you turn yourself into a degens and bet huge ( which is either lose by luck or them rigging your bet )


How funny. You should read what I've wrote previously



This means every site that you have listed above and including 4grinz. I may despise all this non provably fair site but without any proof regarding either they "steal" or "rig" your bet then this will all be just a nonsense and merely witch hunt. Now if you have the time, kindly go back and read my post clearly just so you know for the last time Im not defending any non provably fair site

---

abit off topic


Yeah right, judging from all this conversation I can now see why .

we are done. i wish you well in your life. point that anger to coingaming.io AFTER you fully read both those links. by the way, nice low blow quoting a part of my post on how gambling can destroy you

*golf clap* and yeah, i'm stupid. ask me if i care

1hour away from announcing winners! come Register!

General question::

What is your favorite game??? =0)

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Lee BTC

Thanks FanEagle! We aim to please. Lee is the best!

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png (http://www.4grinz.com/register)

Congratulations to Week 7's lucky Super Launch winners! Check your inbox for a congratulatory email with details on how to claim your 10FREE mBTCs. Don't worry if you didn't make the cut this week. Qualifiers go back into next Tuesday's drawing. If you haven't registered, what are you waiting for? We don't ask for personal information and there's no obligation to make a deposit. Register now to qualify for next week's drawing! http://www.4grinz.com/register

WEEK 7
ableh
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Look for your congratulatory email with instructions on how to claim your 10 FREE mBTCs.

Registration for Super Launch started July 1st, 2015, and drawings will continue throughout summer. Results of Super Launch drawings will be announced each Tuesday at 12 PM (noon) CST on Facebook.com/4Grinz and all winners receive a congratulatory email with simple instructions on how to claim their 10 free mBTCs. The Super Launch is one of many promotions 4Grinz will be rolling out over the next few seasons, and for exciting announcements on this and others, Like 4Grinz on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/4grinz and Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/4Grinzcasino.

im lucky!!! registered today and won 0.01btc bonus...hopefully I will rollover it and withdraw many btc

Congrats to be one of the 50 lucky players, and good luck on your try to complete the wagering requirement. I was unlucky because I lost it all before I could complete it.

unlucky too, I don't get the bonus since week 3, damn I miss this bonus and wanna complete it, but was busted when I rolled 6X. Not easy to complete it unless we have good luck on slots.

Yes, I received the bonus. But the journey to 30x it seems harder than I think, because I only know slots game !

Instead of busting on slots learn new games with the bonus lol.. 30x is really hard to achieve unless your're lucky.

Nice looking virtual Casino!

Do you have any offer for newbies?

They offers 10mbtc no deposit bonus to 50 players every week, all you need is just register and wait for your luck :)
If you do not like to wait you can claim their deposit bonus..

I have in first week why until right now i never get 10 mbtc. Maybe i'm not lucky in this event giveaway :D

What rules no deposit bonus for once claim

thousand of people registered so we get no more chances... I hope they aren't alt too..

Great already registered and played; and in a few plays I already got some bits :)

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/wisewalrusPR/media/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png.html)

Congratulations to Week 8 lucky Super Launch winners! Check your inbox for a congratulatory email with details on how to claim your 10FREE mBTCs. Don't worry if you didn't make the cut this week. Qualifiers go back into next Tuesday's drawing. If you haven't registered, what are you waiting for? We don't ask for personal information and there's no obligation to make a deposit. Register now to qualify for next week's drawing! http://www.4grinz.com/register

WEEK 8
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Fruitloops
Burneas

Look for your congratulatory email with instructions on how to claim your 10 FREE mBTCs.

Registration for Super Launch started July 1st, 2015, and drawings will continue throughout summer. Results of Super Launch drawings will be announced each Tuesday at 12 PM (noon) CST on Facebook.com/4Grinz and all winners receive a congratulatory email with simple instructions on how to claim their 10 free mBTCs. The Super Launch is one of many promotions 4Grinz will be rolling out over the next few seasons, and for exciting announcements on this and others, Like 4Grinz on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/4grinz and Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/4Grinzcasino.

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/21fbc224-a984-4228-b2c8-5f3887964039_zps3p8dzgaw.jpg (https://gleam.io/VkfbH/4grinz-2000-mbtc-giveaway)

4Grinz Bitcoin Casino has partnered with Gleam to bring you another FREE Bitcoin Giveaway.
The You Share We Share Challenge is easy, fun, and a great opportunity to win your share of 2,000 mBTC.

Each Thursday, 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino is giving away 500mBTC to 41 lucky "4Grinz 2,000mBTC Giveaway" participants -
1 winner of 50mBTC
5 winners of 20mBTC
35 winners of 10mBTC

Winners will be determined by Gleam and take place each Thursday, starting August 13 through September 3rd.

Good luck and we'll see you at the games!

https://gleam.io/VkfbH/4grinz-2000-mbtc-giveaway

The casino look great

This giveaway is not the general giveaway cause there is high rollover to complete, and most people can't complete it, so you just give away 2000mbtc bonus, not real btc. :D

Been lurking on here for a while and thought I'd give them a try since they have a few games I'm used to. Luckily I managed to withdraw a very nice amount after my first deposit!

https://i.imgur.com/a6CPqt5.png

So far these seem to be a good lot, ive played at bitcasino & bitstars before without problems but the customer support and payment time from 4grinz has been above and beyond so far. Nothing was too much hassle for support on live chat and that decent size withdrawal was done within a few minutes. The only annoyance at the moment for me is the lack of a bonus progress bar but I hear that its a work in progress, hopefully that will remove the need to nag live chat for updates all the time.

On a side note, these guys seem to be getting a lot of greif over the lack of a provably fair system. Given the audience on here's preference to reducing the need for 'trust' with wherever they move their coins to i suppose its understandable. However, personally i'm used to playing at fiat currency casinos and this kind of thing just isn't the norm for the major software providers. These games play out on secure servers with sophisticated random number generators which are owned by the software providers rather than the casino's themselves so they cant be tampered with. The likes of netent/microgaming/playtech/betsoft and all the current major software providers just dont work in a provably fair way and rely on external audits instead... sure a few small bitcoin casino developers can produce games that do but converting their entire back catalogues of games would be a mammoth task (and i imagine a regulatory nightmare as well). Besides, just because a game is played out in a provably fair way doesn't mean the casino wont run away with your money before you get time to cash out.

so far still didnt won anynof the free mbtc  :(

i was like here from the start

Wow, what an amazing performance, i usually busted my bonus and deposit, and I seldom use it now, how can you do that? Did you play slots or blackjack or roulette? Share us your strategies, thanks a lot  :D

Congratulations Ace~! and all of last weeks winners

YOU GUYS READY FOR TOMORROW? HAVE YOU REGISTERED YET???

LAST SUPER LAUNCH DRAW TOMORROW!!

GET READY !!

16 hourS away from announcing winners! come Register!



http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/Screen%20Shot%202015-07-01%20at%2021.55.40_zpsuwsuxkuc.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/wisewalrusPR/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-07-01%20at%2021.55.40_zpsuwsuxkuc.jpg.html)


Lee BTC

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/wisewalrusPR/media/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png.html)

Congratulations to Week 9, and the final drawing lucky Super Launch winners! Winners listed below should check their inbox for a congratulatory email with details on how to claim their 10FREE mBTCs. Don't worry if you didn't make the cut, because 4Grinz.com has a whole new wave of promotions coming soon.

FINAL DRAWING - WEEK 9
sese76
adi10000
deniro1972
lukaszpl
bambam
acehole
ichi
soflyrly
bigtoronto
stil3000
morkhan123$
SeraphBlack
guralesco
bvanf1
Khonner
flips
mfahri1997
daho
aprilliansy
Twitchyseal
irsykes
profger
Jennifer51
sigitchow
Foxy
nicedrms52
mamee98
Pleaseme80
Rafaelnaga
mace212
Keister
Kabix
seb24
picus
21coins
11Black
alvinmtp
mansyur33
andrey111
melee015
BTMG
rastaclan
ostaja1
brikid99999
Skye5180k
mm21
Skye5180k
pahlevi
picovina
mosabi

Look for your congratulatory email with instructions on how to claim your 10 FREE mBTCs.

Registration for Super Launch started July 1st, 2015, and drawings continued through 1 September. Results of Super Launch drawings were announced each Tuesday at 12 PM (noon) CST on Facebook.com/4Grinz and all winners received a congratulatory email with simple instructions on how to claim their 10 free mBTCs. The Super Launch is one of many 4Grinz promotions. For exciting announcements on this and others, Like 4Grinz on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/4grinz and Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/4Grinzcasino.

Hey there, I won the gleam competition some time ago but I do not claim it yet. Can I claim it now or it is expired already? Thanks

What a luck im not there ::)
it's ok tho, good luck with the casino.

Hey panjul!!!!

But ofcourse! If you did , we got your win on record,  come on by any time, we'll be glad to chat with you.

Lee BTC

 ;D waiting next gleam  :o

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/256775f0-9e0b-498e-a114-51fa28a702c1_zpsm8fwpu57.png (http://www.4grinz.com)
Congratulations to 164 winners of our You Share We Share Gleam Challenge. Check your inboxes for a congratulatory email and instructions on how to claim your share of 2,000 mBTC. Thanks again for all the support and we'll do it again soon. The contest is now closed.

And I won it again?? I received two congratulatory email twice (two weeks ago and few hours ago) + I won on twitter last week..So I won the gleam 3x, does it mean that I can claim 30mbtc (3 x 10mbtc)?

Hi Panjul. Yes, you can claim for every time you won. It wouldn't be fair otherwise. We just have to issue it one bonus at a time. Just let us know by contacting a customer service rep in the chat and we'll take care of each, right away. See you at the games!  ;D

Yeah, thanks for the awesome support from the customer service rep in the chat (so friendly :) )
Waiting for the prize to be credited to my account and wish me luck to complete the rollover and earn some profit :)

good luck panjul  8)

Unfortunately busted all the prize before complete the rollover, but it was fun :) Waiting for another giveaway, wish the prize of  next giveaway/gleam competition will be higher :)

That's true. We give away bonuses. That's what we do. It would be silly of us to just throw bitcoin around. We do it because we want players that already gamble to take us for a free spin. We're not soliciting to a new crowd, just the ones already seasoned.

Note that of the 450 players and 2,500 in Super Launch bonuses that have been credited to players' accounts, more than 2.7BTC has been won by Super Launch winners. That's the luck of the draw and we pay out immediately once the rollover requirements are met. No complaints here or else you would have heard about it, I'm sure.

All free bitcoin bonuses are virtual until you play. We still pay the providers. They don't process free play. That's on us. However, it doesn't become real bitcoin for the player unless he/she wins, completes the rollover, and cashes out.

Congratulations Vapor for slaying the Dragon King for 3BTC tonight!
(And, he did it in fewer spins than it took for his deposit to clear the Blockchain!

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/il_570xN_359463217_g793_zpsm0qblnpv.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)

Thanks for dropping by Acehole and congratulations on your massive win!

Nice wins people, I will never do such great amounts but still, it's nice people have luck by their side.

We couldn't let this one slide. It's one thing to criticize a casino honestly. We're big boys and can take it. However, lying outright to make a point is unfair. So, we will counter this claim by clearly stating;
Sites that run the Bitcasino.io get a fair commission, and if you believe it's "a lot" then wouldn't that be considered generous of Coingaming?
None of the sites associated with Coingaming, and that includes 4Grinz, discriminates against new and veteran players by rewarding them differently. Everyone plays on the provider's platform. At no time are we or Coingaming able to manipulate the outcome.
Coingaming has never encouraged a "bait and switch," especially not to us, and to make such a claim without proof (and that does not include a random blog) is malicious.
The reason for partnering up with a long-running trusted platform has a lot to do with the people involved, their integrity, service, and administrative capabilities. We are willing to share in the modest revenue in order to ensure the best possible product, not only for the player, but for the support staff as well.

I'm not sure how posting an affiliate ad to the actual terms and conditions of the affiliate program is proof that it's corrupt. Other than this poster's claim that includes legitimate links, we can't find anything negative. Being an affiliate is a good gig for many. Our affiliates are quite happy. 

We are BOOMING with new games. No seriously. We just added 21 new Booming-Games.com slots.
Staff is having a blast! (Quality testing, of course.) This one we found very interesting. :o
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/Desktop_Frame_Detail_zpswjggx6ls.png (http://4grinz.com/casino/video-slots/Little-Goblins)
We've finalized the integration of 21 new slot games by Booming-Games.com. This provider produces retro and old-school slots that are a bit quirky and definitely have a different feel. Gotta' love German engineering. We sure do and believe you will too! Games include;

Ahoy Matey
Arabia
Arriba Arriba
Bedtime Stories
Big Chief
Cherry Bomb
Dancing Fever
Dark Spin
Deep Sea Danger
Devil's Lust
Dolphin's Luck
Fort Knox
French Twist
Gambler's Paradise
Ice World
Little Goblins
Madame Pain
Marketplace
Mummy's Tomb
Sugar Shack
Walk of Fame

Ill buy Lee lunch.

LOL thank you nicolym!!!

Im getting skinny. :)

BTC

Stretch your weekend...
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/Campaign%202/4Grinz%20Membership/4Grinz_Member_Member_Monday_728x90_zpsp4nxjcde.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)
It's Member Monday at 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino. Players who've made three deposits of 10mBTC or more are qualified for 50% deposit bonuses today, all day, up to 1BTC!

This month's 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino BIG WINNERS!!
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/il_570xN_359463217_g793_zpsm0qblnpv.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)

Alexd21 slayed GameArt's Power Dragon for 1,089mBTC, 1,658mbTC, 1,953mBTC, 1,125mBTC, 1,032mBTC, and 2,430mBTC, and then went on to crown himself Dragon King for 1,075mBTC and 1,317mBTC, finally banging Ancient Gong for 1,076mBTC!!
Way to to Alexd21!!!

Other big winners include;
Paradocks won more than 3BTC at Betsoft's Event Horizon!
Brandon212 won 400+ at Betsoft's Gold Diggin!
kreeypto deposited 1BTC and won 1,633mBTC and 4,631mBTC playing GameArt's Dragon King and then came back to punish Fortune Panda for 1,878mBTC, African Sunset for 517mBTC, and Endorphina's Ninja for nearly 1BTC!!
5ofo spanked BetSoft's Good Girl, Bad Girl for more than 4BTC!
Alexd21 ate up Endorphina's Sushi Bar for 2,862,30mBTC!
Kokot123 won 3,658.44mBTC playing Betsoft's Sugar Pop!
Vaporly won 1,817mBTC playing the latest release by Endorphina, and the first six reel slot game - Satoshi's Secret. 
Burneas got lucky again at Bet at Blackjack, winning more than 8BTC!!
Logistic is a legend with 2,500mBTCs in winnings at Bet at Roulette this week!!

This good idea Vegas mentality already hurt so many u should make change

Like your biggest week winning news, so I have some ideas on which games are better, I hope I will win some here, I see your bonus terms say only 30X rollover? But i saw some guys post image before and it showed 35X deposit bonus. Which one is correct?

Btw, when will u add betsoft single deck blackjack, i like that game but you don't have it.

Hey Fox19891989!!!

Good to see you!

Yes, no deposit bonuses are 35x rollover and deposit bonuses are 30x 

About the black jack I will find out if we can have it..I will let you know. :)

Cheers

LeeBTC

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/il_570xN_359463217_g793_zpsm0qblnpv.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/wisewalrusPR/media/il_570xN_359463217_g793_zpsm0qblnpv.jpg.html)

Wow what a day!

Big shout out to VIP Burneas cashing out 1.2 BTC and VIP Alexd21 with  2.2 BTC on Gameart's Power Dragon, and cleaned up with another 2.9 BTC on Booming Games' Master of the Sky.

Logistik came in a flash session took 4BTC at Live Roulette!

Congratulations to all of you!!

If you haven't signed up go ahead right now and get your first deposit bonus 110%

We'll see you at the games!

Lee BTC

Congratulations to 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino player Logistik winning 4,300mBTC spinning Live Roulette at Ezugi!

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Please only bump your thread once every 24 hours. This includes updates. You can edit your previous post with any additional info. Thanks.

Welcome to 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino VIP Club Red Mr. Burneas! The first VIP Club inductee to take advantage of a 25% return on his most recent play with a 10x rollover, then taking home 1.2BTC!! It's the "25x10" promo offered only to 4Grinz VIPs.
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Alexd21 schooled Booming-Games new high-limit slots Master of the Sky winning 3,615mbTC at, then killed GameArt’s Power Dragon for 2,046, and closed the night with a 1,800mBTC win at Betsoft’s Super 7 Blackjack! Oh, and thanks for the great review Mr. VIP!

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/25724a10-b3f7-4c3b-b464-8d827475bc34_zps6k9xjrap.png (http://4grinz.com/casino/video-slots/Power-Dragon) http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/9451f215-1ede-48d9-ad0c-3d2cb279394a_zpsnm4m1lcq.png (http://4grinz.com/casino/video-slots/Masters-of-the-Sky)

Congratulations to Bartniki, winning 600mBTC playing Safari by Endorphina!

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/c35fb248-615c-4433-b385-6eabbc827ce1_zps2h51smgf.png (http://4grinz.com/casino/video-slots/Photo-Safari)


4Grinz Player Khonner won 4,437mBTC this week playing GameArts Jumpin Pot, Venetia, and Dragon King!

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/2fa07a57-45ee-4e46-8f00-288ddb681d04_zpsnr6zesze.png (http://4grinz.com/casino/video-slots/Jumpin-Pot) http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/f074d704-b553-4c33-b467-42878c43641c_zpstpy1akaq.png (http://4grinz.com/casino/video-slots/Venetia) http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/067ee984-bf14-4842-ae79-538d06826200_zpsvryyzvuf.png (http://4grinz.com/casino/video-slots/Dragon-King)


Who's your Daddy?! The best bitcoin casino 4Grinz has the fastest payouts!
And, we paid out plenty this week.  ;D
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Big shout out to partorello taking 2.7BTC in less than ten minutes!! In Roulette, Black Jack and Multihand BJ and Face Up 21

Congrats to player meaross who pulled out 1,932mBTC playing Blackjack at our Live Casino!

Loyal player nicolym deposited 16mbtc and collected her 5mBTC Member bonus and won 895mBTC playing Cleopatra Jewels!

This week's biggest winner was Abcdeeznuts who killed it with a 3,573mBTC win playing Cleopatra’s Jewels, then took down Wolf Quest for another 3,946mBTC, and closed the day out by drilling Atlantis World with a massive 7,824mBTC payout.

FYI, 4Grinz just paid out 29,246mBTC to player llama112. Yea, let that sink in for a moment.

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/il_570xN_359463217_g793_zpsm0qblnpv.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)

llamas112 CASHED OUT 29,246mBTC at 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino!

Yea. Let that sink in for a moment. Meanwhile...

llama112 won like a Gazzillion mBTC while playing Dragon King, Sun and Moon, Tesla Spark of Genius, Atlantis World, Wolf Quest, DaVinci Codex, Bitcoin Blackjack, Cleopatra Jewels, Geisha, Ninja, Ultra Fresh, Mummy's Tomb, Enchanted, Three Wishes, Weekend in Vegas, and Mega Gems at the best bitcoin casino!

There are no strings attached when it comes to winning big at 4Grinz.com, and more than 1,000,000 mBTCs in jackpots is just waiting to be won at our bitcoin casino. Some of our progressives have been building up for months.

Don't keep this news all to yourself. Tell your friends that you WON, and be sure to say it was at 4Grinz.com!

From all of us here at 4Grinz, we'd like to congratulate llama112 again on this epic bounty.

Hello everyone!
I am new here and sorry for my emotions but registered here to avoid all players from playing on 4grinz casino !!!
THEY HAVE LOCKED MY 3,5 BTC (or more cannot remember well as it was won quite fast).
I have played big bets on BJ and roulette, when tried to withdraw 1,5 they declined it and said that my account is locked, its standard procedure to check something... but I could still play so it wasn't... again made withdrawall and again declined, continued to play and go to chat, they have asked me to logout and login again, I said ok (though withdrawall will work out then) but no THEN I COULDN'T LOGIN AGAIN. Someone on chat says I'm locked, its standard for 48-72h and they I will be unlocked and can cashout... I said well ok I wait and cashout because it smells bad...
Today is way over 72hours, I back to chat and someone says I have been using some betting patterns which they do not accept and I am locked and funds CONFISCATED as per their T&C (wow!!!).
PLEASE DO NOT DEPOSIT HERE, IF YOU WIN BIG YOU NEVER GET YOUR MONEY !!! THIS CARTOON STORIES ABOUT HUGE WITHDRAWALLS LIKE THIS "llamas112 CASHED OUT 29,246mBTC at 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino!" NEVER HAPPENS!! they just writing this to put Your deposits here and You will never cashout if You win.
SCAM SCAM SCAM !!! sorry cannot provide any screens because I cannot login ! :( 100% TRUE BELIEVE ME.

It should be a joke that lock an account after withdrawal request is a standard procedure to check something. Never heard other casinos do this procedure, but if it is true you didnt do something against the terms so you have the right to get your winning.
So curious to know what they mean by betting patterns.

i am sorry to hear that, i don't recommend people to play in this kind of new sites, you should play on a famous casino&sportsbook, like cloudbet, just click my signature to check this awesome site, it offers up to 5 btc bonus, which is no.1 in the industry.

Someone makes a claim like this and then can't provide a username or a screenshot? Is anyone really falling for this? SMH. Hope not. In the meantime, get ready for our Halloween promos coming soon. Gonna' be spooky good fun! Pics coming.

"sorry cannot provide any screens because I cannot login ! Sad 100% TRUE BELIEVE ME."

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/Screenshot202015-10-232019.15.41_zpsjz3ou3jh.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/997ca305-2f7a-41df-b66f-0a083838c74b_zpsgfgqvriz.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)

Picture does not really mean anything post transaction ID's along with picture.

Hi,
Why do You lie in such a BAD way when I have conversation with You 5 mins before my register here? STOP IT!!
my username is bigboy55 so check this and give screens to all forum readers to avoid them from your LIES.
BTW llama112 is your account if not then why do you post private game history? and you can access and cashout money from any account to your btc address I see, nice scam casino!!
CHECK MY USERNAME YOU LIAR.

Oh Bigboy. You caught us! We gave away 29 BTC just so we could take your 3BTC. Also, don't tell anyone but we have simultaneously unleashed a pacific hurricane on Mexico from our secret volcano lair in the mountains of Costa Rica in an effort to further distract the Bitcoin community. We were so close, then you and the rest of the Scooby doo crew ran in and stopped our plan. You did however manage to ruin my Halloween surprise.

But seriously people, we don't play games here at 4Grinz. We're here to provide the most honest and fun entertainment the only way we know how.

So, here's the deal. You'd better come with some proof. Are you suggesting we manufactured all that player data with Coingaming, somehow wagered ourselves up to 33BTC, cashed out to a wallet that has no related transactions, and did this all through the mothership without being flagged like a float at a Macy's parade? Coingaming would definitely put the brakes on that level of hanky panky. Plus, our time and energy is best spent creating awesome promotions and player rewards.

You shouldn't minimize llama112's win like this. Seriously, if you have an issue, fine. Let's talk about it, but don't drag another player into your drama. Lee and I will take a look to see if your profile even exists at 4Grinz.com. Then, we'll get back to you. That is, if this mystery profile even has a functioning email address.

Easy boy,how they are supposed to scam you anyway,I bet my shoes that you have betted more than the 3% of your budget every time and you lost it all because you've been greedy

llama112 is a close acquaintance of mine.  He has asked me to post the following on his behalf:

Well that settles it....Thank you Cwil!

Cheers

Lee BTC

ok now when it's confirmed that You pay why are You silent about my account, You should check this long time ago and say something here, waiting.

you can screen instantly history of your friend's gameplay and cannot find my accounts for so long? I c that you think what to say again when you have already found and do not want to pay!!! ANSWEAR TO ALL READERS.

4grinz is not a scam site in any way shape or form!!!   I have played at the casino since they started and have never had any sort of issue at all. 

@nicofor You maybe OK for me NOT !!! and they are silent, WAKE UP GUYS DO NOT PLAY HERE UNTIL THIS IS SORTED !!!
THEY HAS LOCKED ME AND STOLEN MY BITCOINS!! and now silent and they have checked this 100 times already for sure.

might wanna provide some proof of this if it is in fact true ... otherwise no one is going to believe you. 

Hello all,

I'm with 4Grinz.com since day 1 and made wager over 100BTC ( around 100-200 transactions) I have never issue with deposit & withdraw so anyone claiming that 4grinz is scam is lyier :-)

Cannot login so I cannot give any screen... anyone with many posts here can email coingaming (I guess) and check if the account real exist and they can confirm so 4GRINZ ARE SILENT+LIARS (before) !!!!!! they are silent now and giving some screens from 1 winning DO NOT TRUST THEM if they locked me they can ANYONE!!

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q624/wisewalrusPR/4Grinz_Halloween_Promo_3_zpsbf4hgoz5.jpg (http://www.4grinz.com)

WE HAVE A NEW HALLOWEEN PROMO!!


Does it feel like some casinos are where your bitcoin goes to die? Well, we're raising more than just the dead this Halloween weekend, so don’t miss your chance to take advantage of all the fun we’ve been brewing.

Join us on Saturday, October 31st for a howling good time when all of us at 4Grinz will be waiting with more than a few tricks up our sleeves, and don’t be afraid to reach inside our generous cauldron more than once while it’s still full of exciting treats.

- 110% Raise Your Balance bonus for all players, all day, up to 1BTC!
- Visit the pumpkin patch for a chance to win 10, 20, 30, and 50 FREE mBTC towards play!
- Get a second helping of treats with 50% reloads all day!

These frighteningly special offers apply to both new and existing players, but dies at midnight CMT.

See you by the graveside!

hii lee..and fred  :)
thanks for this GA 10mbtc...and
I WITHDRAW some COIN (40mBTC) from yours GA 10mBTC  ;D
happy halloween  ;)
https://i.imgur.com/CXb3nHe.png

The best bitcoin casino 4Grinz.com will now, and in the future, post Blockchain links to big, huge, fat, hefty player withdrawals. Here we go!

https://blockchain.info/tx/ad04d16aade9650257aeb43976bd52ee065eee3d6f607ced487878b83f8b9181

By the way, we miss you Maximumm. Stop by again sometime. 

Blockchain transaction: https://blockchain.info/address/1BnubrD6Vzj5NugcGAfdrouQn3wREYDwGe

Vapor went on to play with his winnings a little, but cashed out before losing his senses. https://blockchain.info/address/1FasDjEUDEJrjgpcfVvJJQD7ygTDUb1vAc

Thanks ableh! That's really sweet of you. Happy Halloween and we here at 4Grinz wish you many more treats. :)

OK MY PATIENCE IS OVER... You screenin everything and dont want to pay me.
TO all members: I will pay 1 BTC ! to someone who will help me to withdraw my money from this crappy site.
Anyone who can help please follow, they are RUDE and do not want to help me when promised before to check if the account exist etc etc now when checked they don't pay.

Congratulations to all of our Halloween trick or treaters and Gleam Challenge winners. That was great fun!
The best bitcoin casino 4Grinz.com Halloween Gleam Challenge and Giveaway is a wrap. On to the holiday season. Our favorite time of year!

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Probably not the best idea to just ignore bigboy before addressing his account issues directly.

Pretty sure here the whole point here is that this "person" never had an account or any way to show that he did. They called out everything that he threw at them including block verified transactions... Feels more like "bigboy" is another casino or something. Either way it is kind of like dealing with terrorist demands. You start with a sandwich and next thing you know and its a private jet full of cash and pornstars :) Even casinos need to have ethics. I'm with 4grinz here.   

Seems like the guy got pissed and started making false accusations, 4grinz has disproven them, but hasn't really said anything about his original claim of having account closed with several BTC in it.

Congratulations to our latest big winners here at the best bitcoin casino 4Grinz.com! These wins were so impressive, we made these nifty custom banners.

samar won 8.450mbTC playing GameArt's Tesla Spark of Genius!
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null pup won 2,900mBTC playing GameArt's Power Dragon!
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vtnman with an 11.45BTC win playing Booming-Games House of Freaks and cashing out 14BTC!
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