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Title: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: mikewirth on August 18, 2015, 03:56:05 PM Do you think the NSA had a little say via Gavin in preparing the new code being introduced as XT? Maybe this is their way of getting the core devs who can't be 'turned' out of the way. Mike has been in favor of 'blacklisting' - another tool popular with NSA. I suspect there is a little sneaky bit of code slipped into the XT package that doesn't raise red flags. Maybe that is what this blocksize thing is really about.
Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 03:59:06 PM Do you think the NSA had a little say via Gavin in preparing the new code being introduced as XT? Maybe this is their way of getting the core devs who can't be 'turned' out of the way. Mike has been in favor of 'blacklisting' - another tool popular with NSA. I suspect there is a little sneaky bit of code slipped into the XT package that doesn't raise red flags. Maybe that is what this blocksize thing is really about. Excellent way to show the world the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: mikewirth on August 18, 2015, 04:01:08 PM Do you think the NSA had a little say via Gavin in preparing the new code being introduced as XT? Maybe this is their way of getting the core devs who can't be 'turned' out of the way. Mike has been in favor of 'blacklisting' - another tool popular with NSA. I suspect there is a little sneaky bit of code slipped into the XT package that doesn't raise red flags. Maybe that is what this blocksize thing is really about. Excellent way to show the word the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: forevernoob on August 18, 2015, 04:01:25 PM Do you think the NSA had a little say via Gavin in preparing the new code being introduced as XT? Maybe this is their way of getting the core devs who can't be 'turned' out of the way. Mike has been in favor of 'blacklisting' - another tool popular with NSA. I suspect there is a little sneaky bit of code slipped into the XT package that doesn't raise red flags. Maybe that is what this blocksize thing is really about. Excellent way to show the word the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. What is your response to the criticism that Mike is anti-privacy? Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: Lauda on August 18, 2015, 04:02:31 PM Well this is just a theory, but there is nothing wrong with discussing it (I will not comment it though).
The block size debate is about taking over control. It's about either putting the trust into the hands of the Core developers or Gavin and Hearn. The question is who do you trust? Update: I was referring to lead development roles. I was not talking about the trust-less system that Bitcoin is. At this point I'm pretty sure this runs even deeper than the NSA. Aliens are trying to take over Bitcoin! Yes, that's right. Illegal immigrants. Taking over Bitcoin. Shifty fuckers, I always knew we couldn't trust them... Do you need a tin foil hat with that?Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: RustyNomad on August 18, 2015, 04:08:22 PM Well this is just a theory, but there is nothing wrong with discussing it (I will not comment it though). The block size debate is about taking over control. It's about either putting the trust into the hands of the Core developers or Gavin and Hearn. The question is who do you trust? And that is the major problem. We should not have to place our trust in anybody when it comes to bitcoin or at least that is how I feel about it. The main thing about bitcoin which convinced me to get involved in the first place was the fact that you could be your own bank and the fact that it operated in a trustless and decentralised manner. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: Dissonance on August 18, 2015, 04:09:49 PM Do you think the NSA had a little say via Gavin in preparing the new code being introduced as XT? Maybe this is their way of getting the core devs who can't be 'turned' out of the way. Mike has been in favor of 'blacklisting' - another tool popular with NSA. I suspect there is a little sneaky bit of code slipped into the XT package that doesn't raise red flags. Maybe that is what this blocksize thing is really about. Excellent way to show the word the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. XT is open sourced, it really doesn't matter who did the coding. It also doesn't matter is gavin warms up to the G man or is one himself. The protocol stays the same. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 04:12:12 PM Well this is just a theory, but there is nothing wrong with discussing it (I will not comment it though). The block size debate is about taking over control. It's about either putting the trust into the hands of the Core developers or Gavin and Hearn. The question is who do you trust? You dont have to trust anyone because this is not your president election. How many times do i have to repeat this so your brain can digest? If the fork happens, its because the economic majority's decision. Bitcoin is governed by economic incentives. Or else we would not have bitcoin today. If you're not happy with the way bitcoin goes, you can switch to any altcoins as you pleased. I urge any noobs to remember, what is Bitcoin's "intrinsic" value ? Hint: there is no such thing as intrinsic value of bitcoin! Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: Dissonance on August 18, 2015, 04:32:53 PM Well this is just a theory, but there is nothing wrong with discussing it (I will not comment it though). The block size debate is about taking over control. It's about either putting the trust into the hands of the Core developers or Gavin and Hearn. The question is who do you trust? You dont have to trust anyone because this is not your president election. How many times do i have to repeat this so your brain can digest? If the fork happens, its because the economic majority's decision. Bitcoin is governed by economic incentives. Or else we would not have bitcoin today. If you're not happy with the way bitcoin goes, you can switch to any altcoins as you pleased. I urge any noobs to remember, what is Bitcoin's "intrinsic" value ? Hint: there is no such thing as intrinsic value of bitcoin! Intrinsic value is a buzz word that nobody seems to understand. People say gold has intrinsic value because it can be used for things but does anyone beleive that if everyone in the world decided to stop using gold except for industrial purposes that its current price would still be supported. ofcourse not because the price of gold would crash to almost nothing. Intrisic value doesn't save you from price declines.All instrinsic value means is the asset's value won't goto 0 because it has a use. With bitcoin the instrinsic value is again its use case. If people use bitcoin to transact it has value just like paper currency has value because people transact with it. The backing of a government does not create the value of currency its the adoption by the public. If you don;t believe me look at the zimbabwe dollar for proof of a government backed currency that has no value because its citizens did not transact in it. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: Slark on August 18, 2015, 05:17:42 PM Well this is just a theory, but there is nothing wrong with discussing it (I will not comment it though). I really wish Satoshi is back now. I think his opinion would end this discussion about XT vs Core once and for all. The block size debate is about taking over control. It's about either putting the trust into the hands of the Core developers or Gavin and Hearn. The question is who do you trust? I liked Satoshi's deistic approach before, but in times of crisis and when you need to chose democracy is not that good. And the only thing I trust is Bitcoin Price - and this bullshit debate is taking its toll on it. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: LiteCoinGuy on August 18, 2015, 05:19:12 PM Do you think the NSA had a little say via Gavin in preparing the new code being introduced as XT? Maybe this is their way of getting the core devs who can't be 'turned' out of the way. Mike has been in favor of 'blacklisting' - another tool popular with NSA. I suspect there is a little sneaky bit of code slipped into the XT package that doesn't raise red flags. Maybe that is what this blocksize thing is really about. trollmaster :) Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 05:20:34 PM Well this is just a theory, but there is nothing wrong with discussing it (I will not comment it though). The block size debate is about taking over control. It's about either putting the trust into the hands of the Core developers or Gavin and Hearn. The question is who do you trust? You dont have to trust anyone because this is not your president election. How many times do i have to repeat this so your brain can digest? If the fork happens, its because the economic majority's decision. Bitcoin is governed by economic incentives. Or else we would not have bitcoin today. If you're not happy with the way bitcoin goes, you can switch to any altcoins as you pleased. I urge any noobs to remember, what is Bitcoin's "intrinsic" value ? Hint: there is no such thing as intrinsic value of bitcoin! Intrinsic value is a buzz word that nobody seems to understand. People say gold has intrinsic value because it can be used for things but does anyone beleive that if everyone in the world decided to stop using gold except for industrial purposes that its current price would still be supported. ofcourse not because the price of gold would crash to almost nothing. Intrisic value doesn't save you from price declines.All instrinsic value means is the asset's value won't goto 0 because it has a use. With bitcoin the instrinsic value is again its use case. If people use bitcoin to transact it has value just like paper currency has value because people transact with it. The backing of a government does not create the value of currency its the adoption by the public. If you don;t believe me look at the zimbabwe dollar for proof of a government backed currency that has no value because its citizens did not transact in it. Ding ding ding! and when the economic majority speaks up , open your ears wide open! Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: quakefiend420 on August 18, 2015, 05:26:08 PM Do you think the NSA had a little say via Gavin in preparing the new code being introduced as XT? Maybe this is their way of getting the core devs who can't be 'turned' out of the way. Mike has been in favor of 'blacklisting' - another tool popular with NSA. I suspect there is a little sneaky bit of code slipped into the XT package that doesn't raise red flags. Maybe that is what this blocksize thing is really about. trollmaster :) At this point I'm pretty sure this runs even deeper than the NSA. Aliens are trying to take over Bitcoin! Yes, that's right. Illegal immigrants. Taking over Bitcoin. Shifty fuckers, I always knew we couldn't trust them... Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: LiteCoinGuy on August 18, 2015, 05:46:41 PM Do you think the NSA had a little say via Gavin in preparing the new code being introduced as XT? Maybe this is their way of getting the core devs who can't be 'turned' out of the way. Mike has been in favor of 'blacklisting' - another tool popular with NSA. I suspect there is a little sneaky bit of code slipped into the XT package that doesn't raise red flags. Maybe that is what this blocksize thing is really about. trollmaster :) At this point I'm pretty sure this runs even deeper than the NSA. Aliens are trying to take over Bitcoin! Yes, that's right. Illegal immigrants. Taking over Bitcoin. Shifty fuckers, I always knew we couldn't trust them... that could be true. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: DannyHamilton on August 18, 2015, 07:25:31 PM - snip - I suspect there is a little sneaky bit of code slipped into the XT package that doesn't raise red flags. - snip - Until you can demonstrate any proficiency in creating or understanding programming, your "suspicions" carry about as much water as a bucket with no bottom. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: tvbcof on August 18, 2015, 07:39:20 PM What is raised my eyebrows is 'bctd' (presumably for 'bitcoin daemon' as the string bitcoind was taken by Satoshi.) This should not be confused with 'bitcoin dark' which is easy to do. Anyway, 'btcd' is implemented in the programming language 'go' who's development was significantly sponsored by Google. One of the things it touts is a clean and well documented implementation which is a widely admitted deficiency in the Satoshi-based C code. What I find interesting it that it seems to be a well funded effort undertaken by necessarily talented developers, but they are relatively unknown it seems. Another interesting thing is that it is highly promoted by certain 'old timers' or people who's positions have been puffed up over the last few years through media attention and accolades. justusranvier comes to mind. I will be interested to see if it 'makes sense' to switch the reference implementation of XT over to a btcd codebase if/when the takeover by XT from a (none-)fork of the Satoshi codebase gets traction. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: OmegaStarScream on August 18, 2015, 08:51:47 PM I don't see where is the problem here to be honest , if youthink NSA = XT and the BitcoinXT is just another open-source software program like Bitcoin Core ..; sooner or later we will know if there is backdoors or whatever so this aint a problem .
Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: tvbcof on August 18, 2015, 08:56:40 PM I don't see where is the problem here to be honest , if youthink NSA = XT and the BitcoinXT is just another open-source software program like Bitcoin Core ..; sooner or later we will know if there is backdoors or whatever so this aint a problem . It would take years for a well place backdoor to be detected, and may never be. If you are comfortable sacrificing years worth of records of your financial transactions, fine. Not everyone is. Even people who don't have a lot to hide. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: Carlton Banks on August 18, 2015, 09:11:16 PM Well, no-one seems to mention about the hardcoded Tor exit nodes in the XT source much, but it's hardly a backdoor; the code couldn't be any more overt, Mike wrote notes explicitly describing it, and that he intends to change it to a file based system, which I still don't think is sensible (and has yet to be committed to the XT source repo). To be continued IMO.
Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: sniveling on August 18, 2015, 09:24:23 PM Well this is just a theory, but there is nothing wrong with discussing it (I will not comment it though). I really wish Satoshi is back now. I think his opinion would end this discussion about XT vs Core once and for all. The block size debate is about taking over control. It's about either putting the trust into the hands of the Core developers or Gavin and Hearn. The question is who do you trust? I liked Satoshi's deistic approach before, but in times of crisis and when you need to chose democracy is not that good. And the only thing I trust is Bitcoin Price - and this bullshit debate is taking its toll on it. Sometimes a benevolent dictator system works better than consensus. Linus Torvalds has the final say on what goes into the Linux kernel and it's worked out OK. If anyone wants to try something different they start up a fork, and if it's any good he eventually includes their work in the main Linux kernel. Satoshi would do a good job as a benevolent dictator and sort out this XT mess fast, Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: iCEBREAKER on August 18, 2015, 09:28:55 PM Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h9cq4/its_time_for_a_break_about_the_recent_mess/cu6udfe) Excellent way to show the world the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. Yes, Meni R is likely to have a very high IQ. The Weizmann Institute of Science doesn't just give you an M.Sc. in mathematics because they like the cut of your jib. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: forlackofabettername on August 18, 2015, 09:34:05 PM Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the Excellent way to show the world the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h9cq4/its_time_for_a_break_about_the_recent_mess/cu6udfe) Yes, Meni R is likely to have a very high IQ. The Weizmann Institute of Science doesn't just give you an M.Sc. in mathematics because they like the cut of your jib. Just ignore. He's posting the same crap comment over and over for two days now... Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: slaveforanunnak1 on August 18, 2015, 09:34:38 PM Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: turvarya on August 18, 2015, 10:19:10 PM Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h9cq4/its_time_for_a_break_about_the_recent_mess/cu6udfe) Excellent way to show the world the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. Yes, Meni R is likely to have a very high IQ. The Weizmann Institute of Science doesn't just give you an M.Sc. in mathematics because they like the cut of your jib. Here some parts of the reddit post: Quote To me, Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. Whereas Bitcoin Core represents a frigid approach, where no technology improvement will ever be made because consensus can't be reached, Quote Given the choice between short-term sticking with 1MB or going all the way to 8MB, I am in favor of going to 8MB. Given the choice between sticking with Bitcoin Core or switching to Bitcoin-XT, I am in slight favor of sticking with Bitcoin Core, but that could change any time. Quote All that said, the parent post explaining theymos' policy makes no sense to me. As explained above, the possibility of forking is an integral part of Bitcoin. I recommend reading the whole thing. Meni Rosenfeld seems like a smart guy. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h9cq4/its_time_for_a_break_about_the_recent_mess/cu6udfe Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: iCEBREAKER on August 18, 2015, 10:39:22 PM Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h9cq4/its_time_for_a_break_about_the_recent_mess/cu6udfe) Excellent way to show the world the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. Yes, Meni R is likely to have a very high IQ. The Weizmann Institute of Science doesn't just give you an M.Sc. in mathematics because they like the cut of your jib. The quote was not out of context. The surrounding text doesn't change the plain meaning of the sentence Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. Meni doesn't say "slash sarcasm" or "just kidding" in the next paragraph. He doesn't clarify that by "reckless" he actually meant "admirable." He doesn't explain that he really meant "shatters/fragments/chaos" in a *GOOD* way. You are just trying to deflect and spin his specific (and harsh) criticisms of XT, by using his other irrelevant positive opinions on larger blocks in general. Quote Gavin: "XT?" Meni: "NACK" iCEBREAKER: "lol rekt" Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 11:13:56 PM Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h9cq4/its_time_for_a_break_about_the_recent_mess/cu6udfe) Excellent way to show the world the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. Yes, Meni R is likely to have a very high IQ. The Weizmann Institute of Science doesn't just give you an M.Sc. in mathematics because they like the cut of your jib. How low can you go? thats not what i was replying to. ::) Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: iCEBREAKER on August 18, 2015, 11:38:02 PM Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h9cq4/its_time_for_a_break_about_the_recent_mess/cu6udfe) Excellent way to show the world the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. Yes, Meni R is likely to have a very high IQ. The Weizmann Institute of Science doesn't just give you an M.Sc. in mathematics because they like the cut of your jib. How low can you go? thats not what i was replying to. So you agree Meni is likely to have a very high IQ, and Bitcoin-XT is reckless chaos? Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 11:44:12 PM Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h9cq4/its_time_for_a_break_about_the_recent_mess/cu6udfe) Excellent way to show the world the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. Yes, Meni R is likely to have a very high IQ. The Weizmann Institute of Science doesn't just give you an M.Sc. in mathematics because they like the cut of your jib. How low can you go? thats not what i was replying to. So you agree Meni is likely to have a very high IQ, and Bitcoin-XT is reckless chaos? No i dont agree to anything, you're just acting like a piece of shit and even take craps out of context. Are you so mad right now ? ;D Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: turvarya on August 19, 2015, 09:03:59 AM Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h9cq4/its_time_for_a_break_about_the_recent_mess/cu6udfe) Excellent way to show the world the IQ sample of bitcoin XT bashers. Thanks for proving my point. Yes, Meni R is likely to have a very high IQ. The Weizmann Institute of Science doesn't just give you an M.Sc. in mathematics because they like the cut of your jib. The quote was not out of context. The surrounding text doesn't change the plain meaning of the sentence Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. Meni doesn't say "slash sarcasm" or "just kidding" in the next paragraph. He doesn't clarify that by "reckless" he actually meant "admirable." He doesn't explain that he really meant "shatters/fragments/chaos" in a *GOOD* way. You are just trying to deflect and spin his specific (and harsh) criticisms of XT, by using his other irrelevant positive opinions on larger blocks in general. Quote Gavin: "XT?" Meni: "NACK" iCEBREAKER: "lol rekt" He criticizes XT and Core, Gavin and theymos, but he says, he might switch to XT. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: iCEBREAKER on August 19, 2015, 09:20:53 AM You are just trying to deflect and spin his specific (and harsh) criticisms of XT, by using his other irrelevant positive opinions on larger blocks in general. Quote Gavin: "XT?" Meni: "NACK" iCEBREAKER: "lol rekt" >:( Are you serious? Context is everything. Have you ever written a scientifically paper? I have. >:( :'( Quoting out of context is one of the worst things you can do. :'( So we can't take E=MC^2 out of the context of Einstein's scientific paper? Why not? What happens if we do? I mean, besides you getting butthurt and scolding us. :D Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: turvarya on August 19, 2015, 09:39:11 AM You are just trying to deflect and spin his specific (and harsh) criticisms of XT, by using his other irrelevant positive opinions on larger blocks in general. Quote Gavin: "XT?" Meni: "NACK" iCEBREAKER: "lol rekt" >:( Are you serious? Context is everything. Have you ever written a scientifically paper? I have. >:( :'( Quoting out of context is one of the worst things you can do. :'( So we can't take E=MC^2 out of the context of Einstein's scientific paper? Why not? What happens if we do? I mean, besides you getting butthurt and scolding us. :D Also, it doesn't seem like you understand what "quoting out of context" means. Title: Re: Gavin, the NSA and XT... Post by: iCEBREAKER on August 19, 2015, 04:39:56 PM You are just trying to deflect and spin his specific (and harsh) criticisms of XT, by using his other irrelevant positive opinions on larger blocks in general. Quote Gavin: "XT?" Meni: "NACK" iCEBREAKER: "lol rekt" >:( Are you serious? Context is everything. Have you ever written a scientifically paper? I have. >:( :'( Quoting out of context is one of the worst things you can do. :'( So we can't take E=MC^2 out of the context of Einstein's scientific paper? Why not? What happens if we do? I mean, besides you getting butthurt and scolding us. :D Your scientific paper gets rejected. >:( Also, it doesn't seem like you understand what "quoting out of context" means. :'( Why would postings to internet forums need to meet the rigorous standards of scientific papers? Does Trolltalk's SMF even support LaTeX2ε? Oh wait, you're just moving the goalposts out of the stadium, because you wish to rationalize your attempt to deflect and spin Meni's harsh criticism of your beloved Panopticon. ;D Whine and dismiss all you like. Nothing in the surrounding text mitigates the self-evident meaning of the conceptually independent passage Quote Bitcoin-XT represents a somewhat reckless approach, which in the name of advancement shatters existing structures, fragments the community, and spins the ecosystem into chaos. |
