Bitcoin Forum

Title says it.
What are the consequences? Will they still cling to their plans for the Gavincoin-attack even after it is public knowledge that their data is extremely messy and unreliable? If yes, what are the consequences of that?

Please provide real evidence that backs up the assumption of most [1] XT nodes being fake. Then we can discuss this further.

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[1] - Define the word 'most'.

Exactly.

Mine isn't fake.

"Most XT nodes are fake" --- Are you sure ?????

I do know about not only a few people hosting fake nodes. Also the spike in nodes coincides with the release of noXT software. Then we have this topic which i think is credible: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1155836.0


If you believe 100% of the nodes are legit this topic is not for you. Anyone with half a brain knows the node count is rigged - to what degree is up for discussion of course.

Fakes ?
No event an SPV relay ?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img540/4995/S6oguX.jpg

Awsome.  You're so smart

You're the one that used the word "most".  We asked for evidence that the majority are fake.  You don't seem to have that.

Your evidence shows that at least one(likely more) is fake.  Far cry from most.

fake nodes what conclusion is what ??

Can you provide evidence supporting your point that most are not fake?
Probably not ... so your guess is as good as mine in this situation.

I never said that most aren't.  I said that your evidence was spurious.  You said most are.  I asked you to back that statement with better evidence.  You don't appear to have any.

My point is: we don't know, the data is unreliable and this topic was ment to be about discussing the consequences that arise from this unreliable data. If it's 10%, 50%, 90% of the nodes that are fake is not the main question here. The question is: what are the consequences from us not knowing how reliable the data is?

Just some more nonsense fud

none, because the only relevant number is how much of the hashing power supports XT.

edit: yay, it seems the first XT-block has just been minted ;)

The primary consequence is we learn exactly how far the deceitful individuals playing this little dirty tricks campaign are prepared to go to further their agenda and how little we should trust their motives.  If anyone willingly and fraudulently manipulates the results just to score some cheap shots at the opposition, it means they've lost the debate and can't argue on merit.  I say they're welcome to continue throwing what little integrity they have left under the bus.  It's not doing their cause any favours.

Unless of course that mining pool was running notXT.

It means this is a blindfolded flight now. Could become messy as the opponents start pretend-updated mining soon. No way to determine when a switchover is safe. Immediately after fork nodecount and hashrate of Gavincoin could and likely will collapse. I just hope all this doesn't hurt the value of core too much. Volatility is certainly to be expected. People transacting Gavincoin after the fork (if it happens) stand to loose it all.

Transplanted from the now heavily censored 'gold collapsing' thread:

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To my knowledge, I was the first person to suggest faking out the XT node count with a patch here on trolltalk.  It's a relatively obvious attack, though, so I'm sure that some people had thought of it before.

The counter would be for Hearn to release closed source binaries containing a magic number so that he (alone) could judge when the count of real XT nodes was high enough to start producing bigger blocks and fork the blockchain.  That will allow him to do it on his schedule and his group of friends to make some big bucks whether XT is DOA or not.  And/or he could syncronize it with an event in the mainstream economic system.

It will be interesting to know how many of cypherdoc's minions are willing to run a closed-source precompiled binary.  Of course since most of these nodes are just cranking away as VM's sharing a same processor just to build up a count, it doesn't matter much.  Even cypherdoc would not be stupid enough to have actual BTC on them.

all xt nodes seems to run on AWS ip for a start..

+ about 240 nodes simultaneously popped up on aug 17th... ::)

ps: i sense despair. good.

Who cares?

Underpin your statement!Evidence!If you can't this is pure childish behaviour and not worth to follow any more.

AWS is awesome for this sort of thing.  I had to max out a 100mb link once to test a service my company developed.  I made and image which would start, run load, collect results, send them to a collector, then automatically shut down.  One simple script and a few dollars later and I had results which a more formal load generation service would have charged me many thousands for.  And it took all of a Saturday morning to do the whole system.  I was with a start-up and we needed to have the tests done by Monday when we had already sold the service.  IIRC I only got the circuit in the datacenter commissioned and the load balancer configured by close-of-business Friday.

The implications that I can think of are the consequences of a premature fork. If a large portion of the economic majority use BitcoinXT, while another portion uses NotBitcoinXT, it could make it seem like there is consensus for the fork, when there actually isn't. Then it would cause the fork to occur, split Bitcoin into two chains and now we have a big problem on our hands. As has been long established, hard forks without consensus is a terrible idea.

Another things is that people who aren't using XT see that it looks like XT is gaining support and nearing the fork point (due to NotBitcoinXT) then they might jump to using XT because it seems like XT will cause a fork. This could unintentionally gain support for XT.

Lastly, it could also completely prevent the fork outright if Gavin and Hearn realize that NotBitcoinXT could cause forking issues because of forking without consensus. Then they might cancel or postpone the fork in order to actually prevent Bitcoin from dying because of a fork.

You're making a huge and likely inaccurate assumption. What fact do you have that "most XT nodes are fake"? I don't think you have any facts...you have rhetoric that one person put out a way to generate a fake node and you're assuming that loads of people are doing it.

Assumptions are dangerous.

Get some facts and then come back to us!

Not so.

You don't have evidence the majority are real.  As OP noted, "the spike in nodes coincides with the release of noXT software."

https://i.imgur.com/C3wqKf3.png

One consequence additional risk for anyone "brave" enough to be the first to defect from Bitcoin's economic consensus.

If you stick your neck out for XT, you might get your head chopped off by NotXT.   8)

btw here is another cite from your own signature (i just read your link):


i think he is right - on both points...

XT is being led into NotXT's deadly trap, and there's nothing you can do to change that.

Try not to be such a poor sport about it, old chap.  The already unseemly self-pity is becoming nauseating.

while you're at it you might just get one more xmr..

don't see a reason to defend, even the pro xt side should be looking down on this kinda thing, if the battles won with plays like this.......every side loses.

think about it

Correlation <> causation

I'm not arguing that most are real, I'm arguing that you can't prove that most are fake.  Making the title of the thread misguided at best, and intentionally inflammatory and misleading at worst.  Stop trying to prove me wrong and worry more about proving yourself right... 

Speaking for myself, I switched my node to XT on Sunday, right around the time that noXT was released.  Had nothing to do with noXT, it just took a couple days before I had time to mess with it.  This is also when the massive revolt on \r\bitcoin started(also one of the catalysts for me to switch, actually...perhaps I'm not alone).  This is my way of voting support for larger blocks.

Fixed it for your little feelz so you don't need to cry so much.

Why so hostile?

 Because the environment is toxic. You should be able to get over it ;)

What does the detail matter much? Nothing for the discussion. Complaining about title just eats up space and time.

you might wanna remind this to gavin's derpery linking adoption to blocksize.

or even mass adoption >> bitcoin price surge ::)

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/bc/bc7716a70125203b5a6fb149437e6e11f6e29e9f7267c0316344371dcde55974.jpg

So being an ass is making that better somehow?

Be the change that you want to see in the world.

Implications? None. The rollout logic depends on blocks mined, not nodes running. 

I don't think that anyone on the Dev team has made that claim, have they?

No one is saying that increased block size automatically means increased adoption.  I don't think anyone is talking about price at all here...

On the other hand, consistently full blocks, delayed transaction times, and high fees will certainly stall adoption later.

Bitcoin price.

Because of this stupid war between XT and Core, Gavin way vs. classic Satoshi way, progress vs. keepin what is fine atm, fake nodes vs. real xt nodes. All this nonsense is bad.
We all are losing. Bitcoin is losing, media have another idiotic topic just to talk about how bitcoin is torn by war and future is grim.

You can't prove a negative.  The burden of proof is on GavincoinXT to demonstrate its supposed economic majority, especially now that its ostensible node count has been spoofed into worthless noise.

Gavin is obviously nothing more than Hearn's muppet at this point.  I don't rule out that he is actually stupid enough to believe most of what he says.  I also have never seen any reason to doubt that he agrees in principle that Bitcoin is to dangerous to society without corp/gov moderation in the form of white/black-listing to get rid of 'the bad guys' and either doesn't understand what this would do to Bitcoin as an innovation or does not care.  In more succinct shorthand, Gavin loves big brother.

Go altcoins. Bitcoin is done. It'll be downgraded to "Gavincoin/Bitcoin maybe inbetween situation for next 5 years"-price. Markets don't wait for anyone and are only so patient. Market will give bitcoin time to figure its issues out and by the time it has done that an alt has already taken over #1 spot hopefully and that alt has also much higher tps of course which is no biggy as parctically any altcoin on the market has higher tps than btc.

The noXT release was for showing XT-Nodes that actually are no XT-Nodes. So can you explain your logic behind believing why a XT-Supporter should run an XT-Node that actually is not an XT-Node? He surely would run a real XT-Node. And users that don't like XT would have no reason to use it either. Since why should they promote XT that way? They would use bitcoin core.

So i don't see the logic behind such accusations.

That software was developed by someone who does not like XT. And i still don't see what the usecase for it is.

i dont know if xt nodes are fake or not. but this blocksize debate needs to end allright...

Even if the XT not are fake, no one can create new blocks with fake nodes. XT implementation would be based on 75% block generation. So fake node is impossible to run. Absolutely meaningless.

Wrong. Yes, you can manipulate the network with fake nodes. Anyone can run a fake node, it is easy.

Some of them are, some of them aren't. It doesn't look like there will be a resolution yet.

Do you know who really believes this? Only people invested in random altcoins and nobody else. There was even a small joke about a "2.0" marketing coin during the last workshop. Bitcoin is currently working and the debate should not be having an affecting on trading at all.

We are fine at the moment. If you want to blame someone then blame the ones who started this so called "war".

over 10%, quite good for XT. good to have a fallback system.

http://up.picr.de/23137356ll.jpg

Yes, NotXT is a huge success (except for mining, where BIP100 obviously dominates).

This! I mean this thread is about a software that is a core node but shows up as a xt wallet. Why the heck should an xt supporter install something like that? He could install an xt node from the start.

This accusation makes no sense. If this software would only fake a node, then ok, but it doesn't. It is a full core node.

To believe that xt supporters should use this makes no sense. Even xt haters using it makes no sense. They would install core nodes to make their point. The only real usecase for this software is, in my eyes, to being able to claim that most xt nodes are fake. Which again makes no sense when you look at it.

Maybe i miss something about the nature of the software.

actually you pretty much figured it out on your own..

it does make sense that it was somehow designed to just mess with the Xters: decredebilising their data from the beginning..

clever move, if you ask me ^^


edit: not even sure anyone running actual notxt nodes... its lika comunication op, with a ghost software, filling its purpose without even be running ;D