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I want some views of bitcointalk guys here towards the quesrion why not invest instead of cloudmining??,

YouDEFEND it or REFUTE it..???

Post your views with DEFEND OR REFUTE and then <msg>

I refute both!

Majority of cloudmining websites are scams anyway. The 1 or 2 that are not scams will not bring you any ROI. Cloudmining is the stupidest thing that I have heard about, but greed takes over in people so they invest in anything.

Then we come to investing. Where to invest when 95% of all investment opportunities are scams as well. You end up risking insanely for not so much of the ROI. You are better off leaving your coins in the cold storage!

Cheers!

Thanxx for posting your vieww... It really helped me a lot.... I think your points are verykmuch worthy


:).

Isn't cloudmining also simple an investment? You put in X coins and expect a return on it.

As for investment in general, ask yourself the question, how much €/$ have you invested in your life and how much profit you made. Then compare it with bitcoin. Depends where you invest, but with the mistrust of "anonymous" bitcoin it is hard to find something legit and profitable.

You are aware of Hashnest? S7 GH/s will be available on Hashnest within a month.

So guys which is the most secure option..... INVESTMENT OR CLOUDMINING.....???

It's stating the obvious. Investing is better than clouding mining because most cloud mining are scams. The question where to invest? There are no bitcoin investments with formal agreements. So you are sending strangers money and hope they pay you back.

Invest in what? Put up a list and you will get some opinions. Many cloudmining operations are either scams or overpriced. Hashnest is neither. I have found key to using Hashnest properly is to wait until hash prices are in an established uptrend then buy. Hold for a few months then sell hash at a profit meantime also getting daily mining income. If you believe bitcoin price will be $500 one or two years from now nothing at all wrong with just buying and holding bitcoin.

Because most cloud mining websites are ponzi schemes that will run away with your money.

Most cloud mining operations are a scam, so If I had to choose between investing and cloud mining I would choose investing.

I've never tried cloudmining, but i can honestly say i don't think its worth it. there are so many posts(mainly on reddit), where people invest in cloud mining and don't get anything back. although there's similar ponzi sites for investing, they are extremely obvious. if you want to try investing, try sending out loans on BCT, or btcjam or bitbond.

Good point

This.

Think about it.  Companies exist for profits, can't survive without profits, and rarely do anything that doesn't help their bottom line, let alone base their business model around it.

So why would they essentially pay people money to have an account?  If the mining is profitable, they would be doing themselves instead of splitting the money with the customer when the only thing the customer brings to the table is capital.

The idea is that they can't purchase the hardware without the investment of their costumors. If they had the money to buy the equipment, they wouldn't rent out the hash ;)

I am aware of them. I have never used them since I don't believe at all into cloudmining. But for this 1 legit company, you will 10 more scammers. That's the problem, there are just few legit companies in the sea of those others, that are there just to screw people up.

And if you get people to sign up for a legit one like hashnest, cloudmining isn't just about subscribing, buying contracts and making money. You need to know when to buy, you need to follow up difficulty, hashrates, price and make decisions according to these parameters. New people don't know how to do this efficiently so very often they just end up losing money.

Exactly. Otherwise the same question can be asked about ASIC manufacturers. Why do they sell ASIC, if mining with that ASIC is profitable ?

I think that retail ASIC selling is nearly in the same boat for that reason. 
A lot of people lost money on mining gear and fell behind the difficulty curve. 
By the time they got the equipment, it was too weak.

But at least with ASICS, the end user has to supply electricity, storage,
possibly cooling, hardware maintenance, and software maintenance.
And possibly some of these things are easier to do on a smaller scale.
 

There have been a couple of BTC investments that have paid off handsomely. That's a couple in a sea of hundreds or thousands that have taken your coins and failed. As for cloud mining, that's almost as bad.

Fuck both.

When ASICminer went down it officially closed the book on both cloud mining AND investing. They were one of the only trustworthy and profitable btc companies and when they ran off with their investors money there was no longer "the one" to point at when folks inquired if anything in this sphere was not %100 scammy poo poo

But they also pay interest plus profit how do they get so much return?

exactly, growing btc with these two options CAN be rewarding, but most likely wont be. Just store your coins in a safe wallet and watch them grow value wise.

I invested in cloudmining before and will not do it again.
Not a good investment and there are other ways to invest your bitcoins without the big risk

Really some good views.... I am loving the discussion.... So i have another question..

WHOM DO YOU TRUST MORE CLOUDMINING OR INVESMENT OR BOTH OR NONE????

Some cloud miners have been good in the past and right now have one running but has failed so I no longer trust any of the so called cloud mining because it costs more than buying a rig and getting any return on it. Even eobot that use to be massive and good now disabled a bunch of its rigs cos it got to 100% fee and their current miners are at 60 or 70% or more in fees and never gonna brake even any more or get any good RIO back. When bitcoin was a good price it was a good site doing one the best low fees and soon as prices went down and diff went massive and sky rocketed it was game over. Even using mintsy provided by cryptsy has failed to deliver I had active mining contracts and went offline and claim it is due to re location and getting set up. 4 days remain out my 3 month contract and 2 months have been down and at first was looking good for a good RIO and add more power to Scrypt side but I will never buy off them ever again. Now awaiting a refund and if I do not see one I will be taking legal action to recover this.

With a small amount of bitcoin, both option isn't recommended. But if you have a big amount, i'd choose cloudmining over investment because investments nowadays can't be trusted at all

Not just the cloud miners...all miners are a gamble that an individual could ROI and maybe make profit before the new wave comes out. There are some valid cloud companies.  But a lot of bad ones.  I highly suggest you do research into any cloud mining company before investing.

Can you please share those couple?

I don't advise any to invest in cloud mining sites because a very good part of this it's only scam.

I have participated in 5 Cloudmining operations in the past, just to test them for myself and to find out if all the accusations of them being Ponzi scheme's are substantiated. I can say with 100% truth that none of them turned out to be profitable.

The business model is very simple for them :
~Get investment
~Expand the business to look profitable.
~Pay just enough back to the initial investors to hook more people
~Close to saturation point, pay odd users to create the impression that everything is fine
~Saturation point <No new blood coming in to pay old investors> Stop paying everyone.
~Close shop

what do you mean "how do they get" ? they are mining and it is profitable specially when you are in a country where there is no problem of POWER..
and they pay you not more than 60% of what you deserve.

ROI from legit cloudmining will take a long time.. its more look like that the coin you invest is generating a lot of profit for them but they only give you a little percentage..but that life why would they give you a fast profit where they the only one who generate it you only put money and you dont do anything and those who give fast ROI dont have a real mining farm and will soon become scam..so it better to stay away from coudmining if you dont want to lose your coin

Cloud mining services are not going to stay in business very long if they have to lose money to keep their customers happy.

I suggest that not to be involved in cloudmining at all, most of the time you will not get your ROI or it will take a long time before you will get it.Some of these cloudmaining companies have gone broke and cannot payout their customers during the course of their operation and are still up until now trying to lure new subscriber to their schemes. Invest your btc on other business model aside from this, there are some legitimate exchanges that gives opportunities to their customers of earning interest based on their deposits, you just need to research more and learn if it is worth it.

Where to invest? there are not sites with reputation when someone can be invest its money. I'm fear that all that in circulation are scam. The same for cloudmining. Don't worth because the most of those are scam and because the increase of the difficulty it is difficult arrive profits even here.

Simple answer is buy int BTC and ltc and wait for prices to rise is what am now doing as apposed to playing the risk of gambling and ponzi or cloud mining sites.

The thing to invest in is BTCitcoin itself, clean and simple. Invest your money in buying BTCitcoin, then spend that bitcoin on places to get services or buy stuff you like or need. Make BTCitcoin more than just a thing to invest in, make it a new economy, make it THE new economy and benefit by seeing it grow and take over the world :)

Your way is erroneous. If you will buy bitcoin and then use that bitcoin to buy things you need to spend money in vain because there are high fee to buy bitcoin. So you will lose money if you will buy things through bitcoin when you can buy that stuff directly with fiat money. It si another thing when you must buy things that can be bought only with bitcoin. But I believe that this kind of things yet don't exist.

Then why is everyone say cloudmininig is scam.I don't see any scam in mining

Mining is not a scam its the services that people put up ie cloud mining services that become a scam not the mining in general. A lot of website making claims to host miners or saying they have equipment to rent and take contracts off never have the equipment and put funds into other stuff so that payments can be made to a person, or have the equipment and charge over rated fees and never get RIO back on them. That is why people are shouting scam because in more ways than 1 most cloud-mining company are a scam and never have equipment to begin with or run into lots of problems.

I would rather pay extra and confirmed getting the amount of btc that i paid for rather than throwing away blindly to cloudmining. You don't pay money to people to run your business and in the end, give you back all the profit.

Cloud mining doesn't guarantee you anything. They may be paying at first but like other ponzi schemes, they would just disappear like a bubble if they earn hundreds of people's trust.

most cloudmining companies turn out to be scams. so i would advise you not to use them.

ASIC miner warmed garage is the best investment  ;D

that is the most possible outcome ,but you should also check on some real pools and manufacturers who provide the service.
like hashnest and antpool.

My choice will be investing on some alt coin or something else or hold untill the price ups.
Because, most of the cloud mining will be just a scam/ponzi and it'll dissappear after some time. Like grmining. So it is recommended don't invest on cloud mining.

better use of its own mining tool instead of using cloudmining sites that certainly we dont know whether it is safe or not.

Well, I think that investing is better than clouding mining because most cloud mining are scams.

you should consider again and again about cloudmining.. average mostly scam... and if their legit, your invest will take longer to ROI...if you still want to invest in cloudmining put in very large amount so you ROI is worth it, but..still there is no guarantee their still legit/paying, even their trusted...nobody know what happen next.

I got scammed by two sites that claims they are mining coins and I have no plans of investing in cloudmining again. Both sites have a common denominator and that is no proof of operations. They will tell you they are into mining, they will even tell you what coins they are mining, but ask for proof of operations they cant show you a single proof. This thread can help you. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.0

they will for sure, if they are in a bad situation and they are bankrupt or something, but besides this, why they should disappear if it is profitable for them

as long as there is profit, there is trust, i doubt they are thinking that the scam circle(build a site, scam the people, repeat with another site) may be a better solution for earn more

The cloudmining is doomed to failure. If you do not want to lose your bitcoins, it is best to invest as little as possible, but currently there are still companies that still work and pay. My opinion, I think that most cloud is a scam, do not inspire any confidence, I still have fresh memories of Hash Profit and PBmining.

never ever ever cloudmine. most of them are scams.

that is not 100% correct.
when it comes to cloudmining there are two categories:
1) the first is the majority of them which are scam ponzi schemes. in this case you should clearly stay away from all of them.
2) are the legit cloudmining services. investing in them is not doomed to failure. it is just not a very profitable investment. because of the maintenance fees and the rising difficulty which will lead to a bad ROI.

Classic home mining was profitable 2 years ago, cloud mining was profitable 1 year ago. The next thing is PoS, altcoins staking.

No worries about diff jump, power costs, new chips or anything similar. Just differentiate your investments into PoS coins and u can reach your ROI in about 200 days or so.

I have invested a lot into some bitcoin cloud mining. But got some 30% return only. So think twice be fore you act for cloud mining.

well you need time for roi, unless you were scammed, there is the need to wait something like 10 months, don't expect roi in 1-3 months, because it is unrealistic with your HW also...

Yes could mining needs some time for your return on investment. Could mining is the simple way to make your bitcoins working for you to get you more bitcoins. Money earn interest money which is similar to cloud mining except minor changes..

Fact is if you run the numbers on any cloud contract you see that the purchased hashpower rarely comes close to generating 75% of the investment amount in mining rewards.

If your going to invest into something do it wise, put some in to BTC some into LTC and some into other cryptosid stay well away from cloud mining as often not most will get ripped off or are a scam from the get go. I have done a fair few cloud mining contracts and most result in very little RIO or never make any good results withe them due to the ever growing diff and also price fluctuations. I use to have Eobot and that was good until fees went more than 60% and then hit to 100% and cut off miners due to being generating nothing in return. Then comes mintsy.co Things where picking up their and good value now their relocating and 2 half months of no service is an utter join and said once back on 100% once back on is a fricknig joke.  They will issues refunds and compensation. Will believe it when I see it. Best invest can do now is buy coin and hold it for the future when the prices do eventaully go back up. Theirs a lot of work that needs to be done in order for prices to go back up. But right now will be surprised if can brake $250 to $300 again anytime soon.

Investment is nearly the same as cloudmining. Investment, if legit could produce low but steady and safe results over the long period of time. Cloudmining is almost always unprofitable unless you can obtain lots of hashpower with low funds and the price suddenly skyrockets, you can have more potential to earn slightly more, if there is a proof that they are in fact mining. Just this year, AMHash owner, friedcat ran away with the customer's funds and people lost lots of money even though he had a good reputation before the event.

To be honest it is hard to find that right person or right business that is going to continue and succeed for people. They are a good amount out their and it is indeed a shame for people like friedcat to run away. Guess greed gets the better of some people than to have a successful business and to maintain it and keep customers happy.

If the cloud mining "company" can turn a profit running their miners, then why would they share that profit with you?  They can just keep it all for themselves.

So many cloudmining, are they reliable?

I hope you read anything in this 4 page thread. If you did, you would know that cloudmining is not at all reliable and that you should stay away from it.

If there is no proof that the cloudmining site is mining, and there is no proof either that the investment site is doing activity X with the money you lend them, then investing or cloudmining is pretty much the same. It is to take a risk and trust the word of a person.

The thing that differences both of them is the info that is provided about the investment or the cloudmining operation.

So Why not? There is really no reason unless the mining site offers much info and proof of mining, and investing site does not.

Hey has anyone here mentioned that most cloud mining operations are scams?  Just checking.

Check almost every post in this thread.

of course colud mining its a bit of risk like more than 6 months gets ponzied but investments like safe just banks for 50 years

I did, it was sarcasm.

I get a higher return on my P2P lending investments to people I know and trust than I ever have on cloud mining.  However, I will say that I get a better return on my physical mining operations than I do loaning coins.  The reason in that when you buy physical mining equipment, you don't just get the bitcoin rewards, but you also have the hardware and that has a "book value," if you will.  You can sell the mining equipment before the value declines too much and thereby mine coins for a much higher ROI than cloud mining. With the return, you simply invest in better mining equipment.

My personal advice don't buy cloud mining contracts as they are not in your favour and more in favour of the miners. That is how they earn money from your money.

Just a question about p2p lending, are the terms really that good? And what protects lenders from a defaulted loan? Kinda curious on this one.

---

Cloudmining, though appealing at first, ends up on you knowing that this is up to no good. If you get a calculator and calculate its profitability, you will see that you are investing at a loss (unless that cloudmining service you invested into has an option for you to trade those hashes).

Saying cloudmining is scam is quite of an over-generalisation. There are actually a significant portion of cloudmining sites which are legit, example, cex.io when it was still mining and hashnest. That being said, the time required for profit is too much. This further increases the chances of the owner running away.

Well the quoted text said that 'most' and not all. The cloudmining scene--let's face it--is over-saturated with scams and ponzis. Though there exists legitimate services, we can only count their numbers by our own hands. It is not an over-generalization, it's just being true to what there is in the ecosystem.

agree
I'm see that as a potential for a huge scam since you never see what's really going on behind the scenes.

As someone who has been scammed, it isn't worth it, I haven't seen an actually site that is real and that you can get money back from it.  I may be wrong but I think most of these things are actually scams, or if they are legit, you will never get your ROI and you will still think its a scam anyway.

Cloud mining can not be profitable for the end user, you pay a lot of money for them to pay you back slowly ...just buy your coins. ;)

Maybe when technology gets better we'll come up with a legit way to make gains with cloudmining, but right now I haven't seen any evidence of it being a worthy investment. But then again, if the tech gets better, the miners will push the market accordingly. There's no escape.

Nice reviews..... It is fun debating here..... Dont stop make out some more....

So my question is

Do you still trust investment or cloumining sites???

Cloud mining is all 100% fake/scams.  Don't try to believe in it, you will get busted at the end.

As far as investing goes, it depends what site you are investing, even with investing you can still lose, investing is closer to gambling

I think advertising faucets is as lucrative as cloudmining.

I was with BitcoinCloudServices and Cloudminr. Lost a little with both but whatever.

It's not worth it.  If you indeed make some profit with your contract, it's not by much.  And the company itself isn't making much either. 

There was actual companies that weren't scammers. Cex.io for example, they showed their hashpower on the blockchain by adding their name to the coinbase data and they allowed users to redeem ASICs using their shares. Early people got the profit as the price was very low and there weren't much maintenance fees.

as many are led to scam before profit
I've tried in various cloudmining :(

You should have tried www.CloudMining.website. According to third party cloud mining monitor CMmonitor.com, this service is known to give ROI in ~114 days...

http://anony.ws/i/2015/03/02/cmmonitor1.png

They publish their payment proof of last 10 months: www.cloudmining.website/payments.php

With only 8 BTC, you'll get 10 Ths of hash power. Then, calculate your profit here: www.cloudmining.website/calculator.php

I'm investing to HYIPs.

I'm sure that CloudMining.website is a ponzi.

Because many people can not bear the risk of investing.

I invested on certain reputable cloudmining site without doing much calculations (my fault, I know). I did them later, and found out that It would take me more than 660 days to ROI  ::)

They have halved the amount of satoshis they send me everyday 2 times since then... It is not worth it at all. As I say, reputable company (they have proof of mining, pics, their site identifies the persons that are responsible and all)

So I have come to think that sometimes it is better to invest in risky high yield investments for moderate amounts (0.01-0.05).  I have invested like that in about 5 sites. 3 of them have run with the money already at a loss, but the other two stand and I have compensated the loses.

(PM me if you want names, I prefer not to give them in the open)

Folks, this is not rocket science. What it boils down to is this: Why would someone rent you their equipment for $10 so you could make $12 in mining revenue? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to just not rent it and make $12 (instead of $10) themselves?

In the altcoin world there is a valid niche for people renting out their mining rigs for new coin launches, coins people have insider information on (or think they have), and a few other purposes. I did so my self (both as miner and renter) through 2014. But for something more stable and cut-and-dried like bitcoin mining, you're just taking a guaranteed loss using a cloud mining service, even if not a scam. (And most people who rented altcoin mining rigs likewise lose, unless they know exactly what they are doing, which most didn't.)

Well cloud mining is nearly almost always a scam, either a HYIP in disguise or just a hole for your money.

It's posts like these that newbies should be careful with.  And that website looks scammy off the bat btw.

no hashnest is legit, they provide the best opportunity for profit, you can actually roi with them, it's up to you, on how much you are willing to wait

it's not so much different if you do it yourself withyour miners, i would blame the whole miners system and not cloud mining

Hashnest is a legit site and they do provide the best cloudmining service but people need to keep in mind that it's not just about buying some mining contracts. People need to know when to get in and buy. They need to follow the hashrate, difficulty and price of the Bitcoin very carefully. They actually need to know what they are doing and have some experience in mining.

This is something that newbies often lack so they just end up losing money or breaking even.

That it, you gotta take advantage of those variables and try to predict what will happen, but ultimately is just like directly investing in Bitcoin, so you might as well cut the middle men and go to an exchange and start trading, it's pretty much the same thing but less fancy.

I did say nearly almost. It's possible for sites to be legit. I'm just saying it's usually too good to be true.

i wouldnt do neithe investing nor cloud mining, investing websites are usually only hyips that fail sooner or latter and cloudmining services give the roi after a long time only

this is the hell exact thing which I did asked about a month ago..I think investing is risky then trading so I will say why don't peoples trade their coins except of investing at cloudming maybe that's because emost of the people belive that they are bad at trading

Cloud mining is an investment as well. Contrary to what many people believes it can be profitable. By investing in Ghs to mine while being able to trade them at the same time you can have high returns. I won't say it isn't risky because it is, and it might even happen an investor not being able to reach ROI because he had a poor management of his mining account.

I though that CEX.IO had shut down their cloud mining operations because the couldn't turn any profits because the bitcoin price was so low.

Bitcoin mining in itself is mostly non-profitable right now, so why would bitcoin mining after someone else takes a cut be profitable?

ROI can be possible but it is relatively hard. I had a contract with them and it was mining till the price kept on dropping and the profit became negative. If you own a miner, you don't have to charge an additional fee for managing your own miners. I can't find an option to sell my hash as I have missed the buy out period.

I said was but I'll probably make it more obvious next time.

Then it's always better to invest directly into Bitcoin. Why taking third parties risk as cloudmining is imposing quite a lot. 95% of the cloudmining services have went bust, simple as that. That's a huge risk to take in my opinion.

mostly cloud mining I found a lie,
in the middle of their contract turned into scam  :-\

Many users of the most famous and first cloud mining company ended up fed up once they earning went on negative earning. That's the real situations you can gain from a cloud mining. No one operate for other peoples gain. I also learned lesson from them.

The cloud mining it is the first of choices which must be refused. All the clod mining sites or are scam or don't offer possibility to earn. As for investing it is much risky to invest in sites which act with bitcoin. Are new, without experience and most of those finish their activity very soon: wrong business plan and bankruptcy or are scammers. The most sure investment in bitcoin is to leave those in your wallet and to wait patiently the higher price when it will be. In that time you will have your profit.

Cloudmining is a big NO NO for me. And what to invest your BTC? The best investment is maybe dice website.

you're saying no no to cloudmining and then you propose dice game? what kind of stupid logic is this

dice game or any pure gamble are the worst out there, at least with cloud you know you will hit roi one day, and after that it's 100% profit

besides you can always sell your asic to speed up everything...

Yes, sooner or later they all end up like this. Hashnest is one of the exceptions that still works fairly well.
This doesn't mean that you will profit surely from them, you can end up very easy in negative earnings if you don't know what you are doing.

I think, buying some contracts in a cloudmining is also an investment.
So these 2 things doesn't even have a difference

Yes, but only if you are the person running the dice website  ::)

in the middle, in the beginning and in the end :P we just need to look at this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.0 to see how many scams are out of there, and most fo them confirmed.

the sad part of this is that everyday there is more and more of them, but you know, ppl should use the common sense ;)

so to the main question i will never defend the cloudmining.

Cloudmining very prone to fraud, they are using a ponzi system, so beware if you are using cloudmining

it's actually true in their case, the problem is only one, the very long roi, but if you want to mine desperately because you're addicted or something, and you have high electricity, it's the best way to follow

another one would be to find a trust guy that rent his machine, there is at least one in the mining section

Not all of it. Even bothered to look at this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=766448.0)?

Honestly, there is some money to be made in cloud mining platforms, especially those with integrated exchanges that lets you sell your shares and buy from other users. I made some pretty good bitcoins on cex.io back on its heyday, and I never actually relied on the bits passively flowing on my account but rather buying and selling GH/s in great prices.

I actually haven't seen that, so basically you can mine, and then sell your GH/s to other people.  I could maybe seeing that being profitable but its sort of hard to tell.  It has been around for a year I guess so that is some good news but has anyone actually confirmed it is legit and everything is working on their end? 

For me, I'd rather invest.