Bitcoin Forum

Hi,

I've been reading and making simulation on bitcoin calculator for about one month, and I dont think i can manage to make some money with ASIC like the Antmiter S3+ 453GH/s.

I currently living in the uk and using the calculators, I am always getting negative values no matter the miner I choose. Can some advise me on the best way to make some profit and what solutions are you using?

By the way does any one knows if there is a treshold  (GHs/W) where it starts to be profitable?

Many thanks

Filipe

You have to factor your area in the UK's cost per kW in dollars. ($/KW) The Antminer's speed, the S3 is quite outdated, the S5s and S7s are much better and more recent options at a higher price. ($400 and $1843 respectively) Also, don't forget about the difficulty factors and *finally* the pool fees. I only got a negative profit rate when I typed the $/KW factor in wrong. Review the information that you put into the profit calculator.

I suggest that you check out this calculator, it has played itself out in my experience very effectively.
http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator (http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator)

My favorite ROI calculator is https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator works very nice.   Coinwarz is ok for current but future does not do to good.

OP what is your electricity price?  Also what is your import/vat?   These help show if mining is possible where you are.

it depend on your bills cost, but the s7 is currently at 4ghs/w, which is pretty good, s5 is around half of that

with the first oen there is profit up to $0.20 kw/h, it should be good for many people, not for me though lol

The real issue is usually electric cost, at least as much as the cost of the miner per GH.

 ANY miner can achieve RoI if your electric is free, most can probably achieve it if your electric is 3 cents/KWH or less.


 S5 is a bit less than 2 Ghs/Watt - 1155 rated GHs for 590 rated (but commonly a hair more) watts "at the wall".



 Every time I've tried to use coinwarz in the last 3-4 months I get a "can't connect" error, I'd go with the bitcoinwisdom calculator anyway as it's more flexable.

My simplistic understanding is that electric rates in the UK are quite high (i.e. in excess of $.20/KWh). If my figure is roughly close (or low), then as soon as you run an S3 for an hour, you are behind. In other words, it won't even pay for it's electricity cost. May be an S7 could pay the electric bill, but it would never pay for it's purchase price in the UK, unless rates are way lower than I think.

At .2 I don't think it's possible is it?

I think some people buy new hardware and mine for a month or two and then sell the miner to make a profit. Perhaps that might work for you.

compared with the level of difficulty obtaining higher
bitcoin and administrative costs of electricity are also
expensive in Indonesia, then bitcoin mining through
software must require substantial capital

It is indeed not possible, even mining at 0.1 with a S7 is inadvisable since you will likely not ROI because of difficulty increase before the halving, which at that point mean your miner is worthless to you.

you can't estimate difficult with 100% precision, so it's better to not take it into account

if you do some math, with the antmienr s7 you can profit if you have 0.2 in electricity

I don't understand the logic. Since I can't accurately predict difficulty changes, I should IGNORE them? That is exactly the same as expecting it to be ZERO.

The only way to profit from an S7 with $.20/KWh is to try and sell it very within 1-2 months of purchase and hope you get back all the money you spent on purchasing, including VAT. Maybe Bitmain will raise the price, or maybe they won't ship any more?

I'd really like to understand the math you did to show a profit at $.20/KwH. Besides zero difficulty change did you also assume an increase in BTC price?

you need to keep ur calculations effective taking with efficiency too.....i was in loss of 0.01 btc in a month when i mined bitcoin...so i now take mining bitcoins as a waste of time..

You can use a conservative figure for difficulty, but you must also not forget the Bitcoin Halving in 2016. You don't even get close to ROI'ing the S7 at 0.1 and considering how overpriced the S7 in Batch 1 was..
I kinda doubt you'd be able to resell it for a similar value in 2 months... especially with the competition arising.

i'm looking at the profit history that was for the s5 for example, everyone before january was estimating the same diff as now probably higher, guess what? the profitability of the s5 remained untouched for 9 months

this is why i don't care to much about diff, if you remove the diff, you have a earning of 0.04($10) per day vs 1.2kw/h(1 antminer s7 consumption) x 0.2(electricity cost) x 24, which is 5.76, $4 of profit everyday = 120 in one month = around 12 months to roi

if you sell it like you said, which is the best strategy to avoid trouble, you can do roi at 4-6 months, depend how much you values it

 If you ignore difficulty increase, you WILL lose money in the long run unless you get very very lucky and buy your hardware at an optimum time - and sometimes you lose even THEN.
 It's also not that hard to get a general estimate of difficulty increase for short-to-medium term, the only times it makes major changes is when significant new hardware gets introduced or at halfings.

 The S7 is profitable NOW at .2c/KWH electric, but that won't be the case for very long - it'll go UNprofitable long before the halfing if recent diff increase trends stay close to the same for a few months.



 Nope. An S5 raw income dropped on average about 3.5% compounded PER MONTH from December 2014 to around July 2015, and unless your electric was FREE it lost more than that in profitability.

Its true that you could say that the profitability MIGHT remain stable with the S7, just not now. Maybe after a few months. There is a lot of hardware that's going to come online and kick off some miners off the network... but will still raise the difficulty considerably.

After that, with a smooth difficulty raise, it could be possible for the S7 to remain profitable for quite a while (not at .2 mind you) if the price of BTC keep up with the difficulty, then yes its possible...

...but this is pretty much gambling.

By conservative math, even an overall 2% raise in effective difficulty will mean it won't ROI before the halving, which means its hardly possible to ROI this S7 at all. At least, not without super cheap electricity.

then how come when i went on the calculator it say 0.01 then it was 0.011(0.012 peak) and now it is still 0.097?

something must be utterly wrong if diff does matter so much

p.s. i was checking constantly since january of this year

Its because difficulty was pretty stable during this year, right now its going to go way up because of the next batch/ASIC manufacturer war which just started. Its winter so its a great time to start deploying a lot of miners. Pretty sure all the companies were just waiting for it.

So expect S5 profitability for now to drop and everything should stabilize after the miners catch up with the next gen of hardware.

 Sounds like you weren't putting consistant numbers into the calculator, or the calculator itself was broken or incomplete.

 Might also be that you're looking at $ income not BTC income, that WOULD have varied a lot more as BTC price moved around.

no i was looking at the btc value, all the time, as i've wrote there in btc too, the profit remained for a very long time around 0.01 then there was a higher peak around 0.011-0.012 and now the little decline to 0.0097


i can understand this, but this will only lead to a new long way where the profitability will remain again constant for a long time but not with the s5 this time, but with the s7

nothing will really change, the diff does matter, i'm not saying the opposite, my point is that it is overestimated by a long shot

what it matter the most is your electricity cost and the iniital investment

Then indeed, it's the cutoff point for people based on their electricity cost. For most Americans, S5 are going to get bumped off and they will all need to seek more efficient hardware.

Difficulty will always adjust based on overall power cost/overall hardware efficiency. Which means people everywhere in the world that mine with a small margin will probably always be on the losing end.

In essence, anyone that's mining at electricity significantly costlier than the global average will probably always see difficulty as their biggest enemy, while people that pay less than the average know that it'll always balance out for them so they can run the same hardware for probably a gen longer.

Like S5 will totally survive for me during the S7 phase, since S1 is still just barely profitable to me at the moment.

One other MAJOR factor to keep in mind - bitcoin reward halfing, probably in July 2016 - THAT is likely to kill any profitability on units prior to the S7 for almost everyone (free electric folks and *MABEY* super-cheap electric folks might still eek out a TINY profit for a while on S5 and SP20 generation units, but even that is starting to look VERY iffy).

Hmm, The S5 is still profitable with a 50% raise in difficulty for people under 0.1$/kWh, so i foresee the S5 to be very profitable for quite many people that pay more or less the average electric rate of ~0.04$/kWh.

Assuming the current BTC price stay around.

 At the recent rate of Bitcoin difficulty increases, your 50% will be seen in EARLY 2016. I'd guess mid-Febuary give or take a month - WELL before the halfing.

 I DO estimate the S5 will probably stay profitable before the halfing - but you better have it largely paid off already, or have gotten it recently VERY VERY cheap, if you ever expect to RoI it and your electric is more than 5 cents/KWH.

What I WILL be making with cloud mining AND my miners will be nearly 2-3 USD a day, all combined. I cannot wait to get set up. Gone are the days of faucets. I am glad that I

graduated from "Faucet Nursery School" to Grade School mining.Should be, for now, about 9 dollars a week or so. Not shabby for a beginner.

EDIT! Something was not right-$22.60 or roughly per week for the first while now I will have over 1 Ths of mining power , EVERYTHING of most miners I DO have

combined on a worker. Good spare change for a BTC debit card, thus coffees in the mornings. NO MORE having to beg a couple dollars from Daddy anymore. BIG "kid" now!

Mind you, elec is free here where I am in and will help me ROI sooner.

I'm sticking with you tittle "Making money on bitcoin"

There are pretty lots of money making on bitcoin, just search this Forum site!

First on Services there is campaign and there is a lot of campaign to choose from depends on your
activity rankings,
the gambling section their are tons of gambling games to choose from but you may lose
to gambling too so be careful,
next is faucets, faucets are satochi generating site that lets you get tons of satoshi everyday,
there are others necesities but other people give bitcoin if you done something for them
and finaly mining, mining is difficult depends on your  everyday expenses like internet, electricity,
rent if you don't own a place, and lastly a proper machine miner that fits you!

did I miss something? hehe anyway goodluck on bitcoin! ;D