Making money on Bitcoin

[filipedine]

Hi,

I've been reading and making simulation on bitcoin calculator for about one month, and I dont think i can manage to make some money with ASIC like the Antmiter S3+ 453GH/s.

I currently living in the uk and using the calculators, I am always getting negative values no matter the miner I choose. Can some advise me on the best way to make some profit and what solutions are you using?

By the way does any one knows if there is a treshold  (GHs/W) where it starts to be profitable?

Many thanks

Filipe

[GriffinHeart]

You have to factor your area in the UK's cost per kW in dollars. ($/KW) The Antminer's speed, the S3 is quite outdated, the S5s and S7s are much better and more recent options at a higher price. ($400 and $1843 respectively) Also, don't forget about the difficulty factors and *finally* the pool fees. I only got a negative profit rate when I typed the $/KW factor in wrong. Review the information that you put into the profit calculator.

I suggest that you check out this calculator, it has played itself out in my experience very effectively.
http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator

[notlist3d]

You have to factor your area in the UK's cost per kW in dollars. ($/KW) The Antminer's speed, the S3 is quite outdated, the S5s and S7s are much better and more recent options at a higher price. ($400 and $1843 respectively) Also, don't forget about the difficulty factors and *finally* the pool fees. I only got a negative profit rate when I typed the $/KW factor in wrong. Review the information that you put into the profit calculator.

I suggest that you check out this calculator, it has played itself out in my experience very effectively.
http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator

My favorite ROI calculator is https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator works very nice.   Coinwarz is ok for current but future does not do to good.

OP what is your electricity price?  Also what is your import/vat?   These help show if mining is possible where you are.

[Amph]

it depend on your bills cost, but the s7 is currently at 4ghs/w, which is pretty good, s5 is around half of that

with the first oen there is profit up to $0.20 kw/h, it should be good for many people, not for me though lol

[QuintLeo]

The real issue is usually electric cost, at least as much as the cost of the miner per GH.

 ANY miner can achieve RoI if your electric is free, most can probably achieve it if your electric is 3 cents/KWH or less.


 S5 is a bit less than 2 Ghs/Watt - 1155 rated GHs for 590 rated (but commonly a hair more) watts "at the wall".



 Every time I've tried to use coinwarz in the last 3-4 months I get a "can't connect" error, I'd go with the bitcoinwisdom calculator anyway as it's more flexable.

[alh]

My simplistic understanding is that electric rates in the UK are quite high (i.e. in excess of $.20/KWh). If my figure is roughly close (or low), then as soon as you run an S3 for an hour, you are behind. In other words, it won't even pay for it's electricity cost. May be an S7 could pay the electric bill, but it would never pay for it's purchase price in the UK, unless rates are way lower than I think.

[coinbeast]

At .2 I don't think it's possible is it?

I think some people buy new hardware and mine for a month or two and then sell the miner to make a profit. Perhaps that might work for you.

[koinsuka]

compared with the level of difficulty obtaining higher
bitcoin and administrative costs of electricity are also
expensive in Indonesia, then bitcoin mining through
software must require substantial capital

[VirosaGITS]

At .2 I don't think it's possible is it?

I think some people buy new hardware and mine for a month or two and then sell the miner to make a profit. Perhaps that might work for you.

It is indeed not possible, even mining at 0.1 with a S7 is inadvisable since you will likely not ROI because of difficulty increase before the halving, which at that point mean your miner is worthless to you.

[Amph]

At .2 I don't think it's possible is it?

I think some people buy new hardware and mine for a month or two and then sell the miner to make a profit. Perhaps that might work for you.

you can't estimate difficult with 100% precision, so it's better to not take it into account

if you do some math, with the antmienr s7 you can profit if you have 0.2 in electricity

[alh]

At .2 I don't think it's possible is it?

I think some people buy new hardware and mine for a month or two and then sell the miner to make a profit. Perhaps that might work for you.

you can't estimate difficult with 100% precision, so it's better to not take it into account

if you do some math, with the antmienr s7 you can profit if you have 0.2 in electricity

I don't understand the logic. Since I can't accurately predict difficulty changes, I should IGNORE them? That is exactly the same as expecting it to be ZERO.

The only way to profit from an S7 with $.20/KWh is to try and sell it very within 1-2 months of purchase and hope you get back all the money you spent on purchasing, including VAT. Maybe Bitmain will raise the price, or maybe they won't ship any more?

I'd really like to understand the math you did to show a profit at $.20/KwH. Besides zero difficulty change did you also assume an increase in BTC price?

[pjsonowal]

you need to keep ur calculations effective taking with efficiency too.....i was in loss of 0.01 btc in a month when i mined bitcoin...so i now take mining bitcoins as a waste of time..

[VirosaGITS]

You can use a conservative figure for difficulty, but you must also not forget the Bitcoin Halving in 2016. You don't even get close to ROI'ing the S7 at 0.1 and considering how overpriced the S7 in Batch 1 was..
I kinda doubt you'd be able to resell it for a similar value in 2 months... especially with the competition arising.

[Amph]

At .2 I don't think it's possible is it?

I think some people buy new hardware and mine for a month or two and then sell the miner to make a profit. Perhaps that might work for you.

you can't estimate difficult with 100% precision, so it's better to not take it into account

if you do some math, with the antmienr s7 you can profit if you have 0.2 in electricity

I don't understand the logic. Since I can't accurately predict difficulty changes, I should IGNORE them? That is exactly the same as expecting it to be ZERO.

The only way to profit from an S7 with $.20/KWh is to try and sell it very within 1-2 months of purchase and hope you get back all the money you spent on purchasing, including VAT. Maybe Bitmain will raise the price, or maybe they won't ship any more?

I'd really like to understand the math you did to show a profit at $.20/KwH. Besides zero difficulty change did you also assume an increase in BTC price?

i'm looking at the profit history that was for the s5 for example, everyone before january was estimating the same diff as now probably higher, guess what? the profitability of the s5 remained untouched for 9 months

this is why i don't care to much about diff, if you remove the diff, you have a earning of 0.04($10) per day vs 1.2kw/h(1 antminer s7 consumption) x 0.2(electricity cost) x 24, which is 5.76, $4 of profit everyday = 120 in one month = around 12 months to roi

if you sell it like you said, which is the best strategy to avoid trouble, you can do roi at 4-6 months, depend how much you values it

[QuintLeo]

At .2 I don't think it's possible is it?

I think some people buy new hardware and mine for a month or two and then sell the miner to make a profit. Perhaps that might work for you.

you can't estimate difficult with 100% precision, so it's better to not take it into account

if you do some math, with the antmienr s7 you can profit if you have 0.2 in electricity

 If you ignore difficulty increase, you WILL lose money in the long run unless you get very very lucky and buy your hardware at an optimum time - and sometimes you lose even THEN.
 It's also not that hard to get a general estimate of difficulty increase for short-to-medium term, the only times it makes major changes is when significant new hardware gets introduced or at halfings.

 The S7 is profitable NOW at .2c/KWH electric, but that won't be the case for very long - it'll go UNprofitable long before the halfing if recent diff increase trends stay close to the same for a few months.

the profitability of the s5 remained untouched for 9 months

 Nope. An S5 raw income dropped on average about 3.5% compounded PER MONTH from December 2014 to around July 2015, and unless your electric was FREE it lost more than that in profitability.

[VirosaGITS]

Its true that you could say that the profitability MIGHT remain stable with the S7, just not now. Maybe after a few months. There is a lot of hardware that's going to come online and kick off some miners off the network... but will still raise the difficulty considerably.

After that, with a smooth difficulty raise, it could be possible for the S7 to remain profitable for quite a while (not at .2 mind you) if the price of BTC keep up with the difficulty, then yes its possible...

...but this is pretty much gambling.

By conservative math, even an overall 2% raise in effective difficulty will mean it won't ROI before the halving, which means its hardly possible to ROI this S7 at all. At least, not without super cheap electricity.

[Amph]

the profitability of the s5 remained untouched for 9 months

 Nope. An S5 raw income dropped on average about 3.5% compounded PER MONTH from December 2014 to around July 2015, and unless your electric was FREE it lost more than that in profitability.

then how come when i went on the calculator it say 0.01 then it was 0.011(0.012 peak) and now it is still 0.097?

something must be utterly wrong if diff does matter so much

p.s. i was checking constantly since january of this year

[VirosaGITS]

the profitability of the s5 remained untouched for 9 months

 Nope. An S5 raw income dropped on average about 3.5% compounded PER MONTH from December 2014 to around July 2015, and unless your electric was FREE it lost more than that in profitability.

then how come when i went on the calculator it say 0.01 then it was 0.011(0.012 peak) and now it is still 0.097?

something must be utterly wrong if diff does matter so much

p.s. i was checking constantly since january of this year

Its because difficulty was pretty stable during this year, right now its going to go way up because of the next batch/ASIC manufacturer war which just started. Its winter so its a great time to start deploying a lot of miners. Pretty sure all the companies were just waiting for it.

So expect S5 profitability for now to drop and everything should stabilize after the miners catch up with the next gen of hardware.

[QuintLeo]

the profitability of the s5 remained untouched for 9 months

 Nope. An S5 raw income dropped on average about 3.5% compounded PER MONTH from December 2014 to around July 2015, and unless your electric was FREE it lost more than that in profitability.

then how come when i went on the calculator it say 0.01 then it was 0.011(0.012 peak) and now it is still 0.097?

 Sounds like you weren't putting consistant numbers into the calculator, or the calculator itself was broken or incomplete.

 Might also be that you're looking at $ income not BTC income, that WOULD have varied a lot more as BTC price moved around.

[Amph]

 Sounds like you weren't putting consistant numbers into the calculator, or the calculator itself was broken or incomplete.

 Might also be that you're looking at $ income not BTC income, that WOULD have varied a lot more as BTC price moved around.

no i was looking at the btc value, all the time, as i've wrote there in btc too, the profit remained for a very long time around 0.01 then there was a higher peak around 0.011-0.012 and now the little decline to 0.0097

Its because difficulty was pretty stable during this year, right now its going to go way up because of the next batch/ASIC manufacturer war which just started. Its winter so its a great time to start deploying a lot of miners. Pretty sure all the companies were just waiting for it.

So expect S5 profitability for now to drop and everything should stabilize after the miners catch up with the next gen of hardware.

i can understand this, but this will only lead to a new long way where the profitability will remain again constant for a long time but not with the s5 this time, but with the s7

nothing will really change, the diff does matter, i'm not saying the opposite, my point is that it is overestimated by a long shot

what it matter the most is your electricity cost and the iniital investment