Bitcoin Forum

The 19 significant coins required for the ALT19 Index are…

1. LTC
2. DOGE
3. NXT
4. NMC
5. DASH
6. PPC…

Other blue chips significant coins? Which to select?
ETH? XMR? DGB?
BLK? QRK? VTC? XPM?
Old and good WDC, IFC, FTC?


Thank you!

DGB is on the verge of being ready.  If the price continues to increase, and stays up for a few more weeks without crashing severely, then you could feel more confident to add it.  The same goes for NLG;  a large and persisent community of people who believe that the coin has value will eventually make the perception a reality.

(Full disclosure - I just sold all of my DGB and NLG while they're up and put it into NEM.  If they never go back down, that's bad for me but good for NLG and DGB)

NEM has been in development long enough to qualify, but it's still relatively new and probably also needs some more time to prove itself.

1. LTC
2. DOGE
3. NXT
4. NMC
5. DASH
6. PPC…
XMR
mona
nsr
note
clam
start
ruby
vtc
prime
gmc
naut
world
black
DGB
ftc
veri
xem
mega
emer
fuel
fair
rimbit
cp
master  ... whatever ... just reading http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/views/all/ top 80

now lets eliminate

1. nxt, bts, and xem ... sorry you go because your in the 'another' kind of code group.  Reason being these coins can not be rapidly be added to trade or depository platforms without tweaking the code.  Also anyone who can work on the BTC/LTC code bases can also code coins derived from them.  In a word these kinds of coins are exotic.  Akin to centralized code.  

2. monero, byte, vnl ... same story.  Now add NAUT because they are switching to the NXT platform ... hence centralized and dependent upon NXT.  CP and Master not really coins are they.

3.  Now "famous, and time tested" ... ruby to hot to fast, neu most def. new(and ico), grid (time tested broken).

4.  You could do other metrics, like included in shapeshift, +2 block explorers, +3 market listings with volume, etc.

5. LTC not included ... it throws the data off.  LTC is orders of magnitude above the rest.  Besides the big four would then be BTC v. LTC v. rip v. ALT19 Index  

6. Break them into algo groups

1. DOGE note gmc world mega
2. NMC UNO zeta
3. PPC NOVA
4. dash start
5. mona vtc ftc
6. prime
7. nsr black veri clam
8. dgb digital

if you're just 19

1. DOGE note gmc world mega
2. NMC UNO zeta
3. PPC NOVA
4. dash start
5. mona vtc ftc
6. prime
7. nsr black veri clam
8. dgb digital
  

Thanks!

LTC is LTC ('little brother', 'silver'...) but it is an altcoin after all. BTW I wouldn't be surprised to see $3.3-$3.7 (LTC/USD) pretty soon.

XPM was great when listed on btc-e, I don't think this coin has a bright future, but let it stay. It has a bright history, at least.

WDC, MEC, NVC, FTC are old and great.

BLK, VTC are significant. DGB = famous DigiShield.

DGC, VRC, ZET, UNO are not bad, they look like first among 2nd tier coins.

NXT, ETH, XMR are exotic, but widely known. NxT has many users, ETH and XMR have many investors.

well to disagree even though we agree 7/8th ...

LTC not included ... it throws the data off.  LTC is orders of magnitude above the rest.  
yes LTC ('little brother', 'silver'...) so I check it's price when I check BTC price.  
But in terms of market cap LTC is x10 doge, x130 nova. 
LTC squashes the other ALT18 if included to point of perhaps being of greater MC than the sum of the other ALT18.

For most causal observes the market will be BTC then LTC then ripple and now it looks like ETH has a spot on the mental map of the general public.  

The ALT19 Index ought be the 'other coins'.

There are also enough 'anons' to have an ANON index.

Same with the crypto 2.0 [eth, bts, nxt, cp, master, plus all their assets]  

So it is my hope that you keep ALT19 entirely coins launched 2012-2013.   Old school cool.  Time vetted/tested.

now I screw my own original logic up

dash and XMR goes ANON index
start goes crypto 2.0 index *it's going NXT ;)
nsr black veri go to a 100% pure stakes index
ALT19 Index
ripple price
ltc price
btc price

Litecoin    LTC    160
Namecoin    NMC    450
Novacoin    NVC    450
Peercoin    PPC    500
Feathercoin    FTC    20000
Terracoin    TRC    20000
Primecoin    XPM    2000
Dogecoin    DOGE    2300000
Darkcoin (Dash)    DASH    80
Vertcoin    VTC    1000
Worldcoin    WDC    45000
Quarkcoin    QRC    50000
Anoncoin    ANC    1300
Auroracoin    AUR    4500
BottleCaps    CAP    20000
Megacoin    MEC    10000
Myriad    MYR    500000
Vericoin    VRC    8500
Zetacoin    ZET    45000

----------
so seeking 5 new candidates

SUGGEST
dgb digital
gmc tips moon casino ea
mona
uno ixc

ALT19-stakes index

Black
Vericoin    VRC
Clam
NSR
btcd
mint
ruby
rdd
zeit
dmd *
tek *
cbx *
sdc
jbs
xpy
arch
pot
con
bitz

ANON index

dash
monero
vnl
byte
digitalnote (duck)
cloak
shadowcash
bool
btcd
flax
anon
fantom
dsh

This thread is absolute trash.  All you people did is list a shit ton of PoW clone coins that have no future.  PoW is designed to be a monopoly player over the entire universe and doesn't even function when others like it exist.  See the fallacy of PoW consensus outlined in:

Decentralised Currencies Are Probably Impossible But Let’s At Least Make Them Efficient

http://www.links.org/files/decentralised-currencies.pdf

And all the stuff I list here:

The state of crypto - The only serious thread on the subforum

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171109.0

r0ach could you please suggest 19 coins that are not sh.. in your opinion.
BTC is not an altcoin so it couldn't participate.

First off, since these are all probabilistic security models, there is no good choice, only best bad choice.  Due to this reason, I don't think one coin will ever have a monopoly on the market and people will hedge in 3-5 coins that end up having similar market caps.

Going down the market cap list from top to bottom:

Bitshares - DPoS and PoW are the two best consensus mechanisms currently with certain tradeoffs for each

Maidsafe - might be good if it's ever finished, might be vaporware, only 15% done and in development for years which makes it kind of not even worth talking about at this point

Nxt - if they ever code transparent forging, otherwise no (not sure if it's even possible).  With transparent forging, you're recreating DPoS of bitshares, just in a less straightforward, less efficient way.  It would survive in this case by virtue of needing several coins for people to hedge in rather than just one monopoly coin.

Monero - probably the best PoW coin that isn't Bitcoin

Litecoin - only reason to pick Litecoin is if you think the Satoshi premine is setting you up for a black swan event and you want less cryptonote bloat than Monero

There might be a few other decent special case coins like some of these "storage" based coins, but I haven't really compared them all and if the market actually needs such a service or not.  If the altcoin is just plain PoW or PoS, then you probably do not want it over any of the options above.  For DPoS, Bitshares doesn't have a real competitor in that sector.  The altcoin industry is starting to weed out a lot of pointless coins and you can tell by them having literally 0 volume on exchange.


The questionable coins

Ethereum - only if Vitalik invents an alternative consensus mechanism equal or better than DPoS. Currently it's PoW.  You can do much of Ethereum functionality in Bitshares, NXT, and other platforms.  Vitalik used the word "delegated voting" in his post today, so it sounds like he might be trying to clone a DPoS system.

r0ach, thanks, now that's more constructive except for hating PoW
NXT, XMR, ETH - OK
Maidsafe, better let's wait till at least 50% done and Cryptsy listing.

BitShares
could you please tell me why Coinmarketcap indicates a price of 0.00002611 BTC
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares/  
and Cryptsy rate is 10 times higher? 0.00025509 BTC
https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/PTS_BTC 

I didn't say Eth is ok.  Eth is currently vaporware for all intents and purposes until it creates a valid consensus mechanism.



I don't know if you've been in outer space or something, but Poloniex is now the #1 altcoin exchange probably.  Cryptsy seems like they're in trouble because they had to alter their fee model just recently too.


Protoshares was a PoW coin that was used for people to mine to get the Bitshares DPoS coin.  Only "BTS" on exchange matters.  Some random fools tried to keep the PoW chain going for no reason.  As you can see on market cap, the Bitshares DPoS coin is the one that matters.

I like it that you're creating an index, OP but calling those coins as "blue chips" is just stupid.  All of them are under 500m usd in market capitalization ffs.

But if there's another crypto at say 50 usd per coin, then that's a 'blue chip'.

tokeweed, of course they are not 'blue chips' like Apple or Google shares.
Apple market cap is higher than $600B.
BTC market cap?

We have a very small market these days.

"As befits the sometimes high-risk nature of stock picking, 'blue chip' derives from poker. The simplest sets of poker betting discs include white, red, and blue chips, with tradition dictating that the blues are highest in value. If a white chip is worth $1, a red is usually worth $5, and a blue $25".

So it is relative.  $25 is less than $500 mln. Still it is a blue chip :)

If you have other candidates, please point them.

I get what you're doing.  But please call it something else.  Because they are far far away from being in the same vicinity of a blue chip.  It sounds like a joke tbh.  No offense.

So where is NEM on this list? They have been around for a while and know what needs be done to be successful in the long run. Anyone second my thoughts?

You Shuld investigate capricoin, Gary Conner the owner http://www.altcointoday.com/ he has 6 million dollar invested in different cryptocurrency. He is saying that capricoin is the best coin right now and its so much more advanced vs bitcoin that it will go mainstream in 1-2 years and just out preform bitcoin. Im currently getting every capricoin. I´m getting as much coins I can get right now. here is page you can check fi you want to know more about capricoin ----> http://davidstahl.digitalcurrencyfuture.com/

And plus who made you the 'man' to decide all this.  Shouldn't all the exchanges be the ones to get to decide?  Even if it's unofficial...?

tokeweed, there was only one altcoin exchange when I started calculating the ALT19 Index.

Well that ain't the case now, ain't it?

edit:  I was gonna take the index seriously.  And I think it's a great idea (if the people who ran the exchanges created it).  But when I saw you calling them 'blue chips', I thought it was some kind of a joke.  It's more like 'blue cheaps', really.

Apple: market cap $654B sector: Technology
Caterpillar: market cap $39B sector: Industrials
They are both in the Dow Jones.

You're right, LTC is "orders of magnitude above the rest".
But is is an altcoin. If we don't include it, people will ask where is LTC? Not included? Why? Not interesting?
Some members bash LTC and new investors may be confused.

You may disagree, but LTC is in the same boat with altcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1089664.0

Besides "the Dow Jones is a price-weighted average, which gives higher-priced stocks more influence over the average than their lower-priced
counterparts, but takes no account of the relative industry size or market capitalization of the components. For example, a $1 increase in a
lower-priced stock can be negated by a $1 decrease in a much higher-priced stock, even though the lower-priced stock experienced a larger
percentage change".

'crypto 2.0', there is the ALT_INNOVATIVE Index already http://alt19.com/marketindexes.html

'anons' and an ANON Index is a great idea but maybe someone else will calculate it?  Exchanges, for example? ALT_SHADOW Index...

I'm not a friend of these coins, they may attract the attention of regulators. As a result, digital currencies (including coins with transparent transactions) may suffer. Transparent transactions (BTC, LTC, DOGE, NXT) are the compromise.

ShadowCash SDC is really great technically, and some investors like CANN, but just imagine components of Dow Jones would be stocks of drug
cartels. Shadow Colombian Cash Inc. Earnings Release, Major Holders, Research Reports... Sounds weird at least.

My opinion is that it would be enough to have the most famous and high value 'anons' (DASH and XMR currently) in the ALT19 Index.

What do other members think?

NXT and BURST are a good choice in my opinion. They are similar but also different in certain cases. Choose the one you like.

Exchanges decide which coins TO LIST.
I'm not able to include coins that are not listed. They have no prices at all.
Users, investors, members (not exchanges) decide which coins to trade, to support, to develop.

On November 1st, 2015 Bittrex will delist 37 coins including CYP, HAL, GRID, RZR, SFR, SYNC, WATER, ZRC.  Some of them had pretty large market cap and still have holders.

Poloniex has killed many small coins by delisting them.

Exchanges often list coins that are hot right now only and then delist them when volumes decrease.
Altcoin indices must not contain the components that are under risks of delisting.

Why it is not a solution to include top market cap coins only?

To diversify, to balance risks and rewards, and to protect investors from investing in overpriced IPO's and quasi-innovative new coins with no history and hypes like XPY.

I hope it's clearer now why the components of altcoin indices must be coins with some history and with Cryptsy listing.
 
The components must be stable. They shouldn't be changed every day or every month.

Charts, historical data show how your long term investments go, your profits, losses (%), but if we change the components regularly then charts and historical data will not be representative. For example, you will not be able to find out how much money you would have if you bought the components an year ago.

The components of the Dow Jones have changed 53 times only in its 128-year history.

I think you must select altcoin 5 index only, 19 coins are too much  ;) Market is full of many altcoins  :D

Yes, a shorter index would be better if the intention is to gather the "blue chip" coins. I also agree with other posters that LTC is far above the others.

I agree that LTC is above the others.
That's why the weight of Litecoin component at the beginning was approximately 10%, the weight of other 18 components was about 5% each.

But do you agree that it is the reason Litecoin shouldn't be included?
Following this logic Apple shares or Standard Oil shares are (were) inappropriate components of the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

I agree that the "blue chip" coins are LTC, DOGE, NXT, DASH, maybe ETH.
If we don't include LTC, there are 3-4 coins and that would be a shorter index. But then there would be no diversification. No balance between risks and rewards. Not interesting. Especially if whales would decide to dump their "blue chips".

So you're right, the ALT19 Index is not a "blue chip" index currently. It should simply contain 19 significant altcoins. The index is not a classification. It may contain very different/well-diversified coins. Standard and poor, smart and fool's... Which are "smart" and which are "fool's"? Who knows? Only time will tell.

Please suggest coins which you consider as the most significant ones.

It looks like BURST is having an uptrend now, the morale is back and we got a strong community. I would definitely buy BURST in your place, it might be the next big thing.