Bitcoin Forum

Everybody keeps screaming about the ASICs but to me every single company w/ an "ASIC" coming out doesn't look reputable at all (businesses w/ just PO boxes and unanswered phones, not being registered with the state(s) business dept., etc. etc). I mean is there any actual proof that they are on their way? And if so, why are they all operating so shadily!?

Umm, I'm pretty sure cablepair and BFL are registered businesses

If they are, they aren't in the same state where they use their PO Boxes:

- Butterfly Labs "Address": PO Box 413671 Kansas City, Missouri 64141-3761
    Missouri Business Entities (https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/csearch.asp) : Result - no Butterfly Labs

-  btcfpga "Address": P.O. Box 246 Hannibal, NY 13074
    New York Business Entities (http://www.dos.ny.gov/corps/bus_entity_search.html) : Result - no BTCFPGA

There is none. Still that doesn't stop the "true believers" from doing their thing.

I hope you are stocked up on popcorn.

Have you ask the companies themself how they registerd maybe BFL has another name Registerd orso?
Shady it is but online they are trusted by the mass..mmm u can ask Inaba he is always posting en answering question in treads around here.  ;)

BFL has shown production boards (though has yet to show that they actually work). They are so far the only company to show a physical product.

Though all three companies, Avalon, btcfpga, and bfl have all had past products in the fpga market so it is reasonable to assume they are not scams (I hope).

At least this guy didn't start out his expression of disbelief by formally stating "I have no idea what I'm talking about, and posses no knowledge on this subject, but I firmly believe that it is impossible for these devices to ever exist."

Those posts are my favorite and I want to die.

This doesn,t say anything about new products witch are 1000x harder to produce and they could abuse the trust build up ..but give them the benefit of the doubt for some 6 weeks or so...the boards they show are no proof at all looks just like some more bait.to me  .its up to you if you will bite...i hope they are for real.. ;)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33835.0;topicseen

Well... I worked INSIDE a number of Chinese companies, so I have a unique perspective of what goes on.
I threw some cash at "BTCFPGA" but ignored the other two, purely because BTCFPGA allowed the use of a credit card.
Any no show would be wire fraud, plus the CC company cover for non-delivery.
The other two have managed to convince me I'd rather not take the risk until they have at-least one device out in the public, basically because they are black hole financing, with ZERO chance to recover funds if something goes wrong.

As for shipping products in the past, it's hardly cutting edge stuff just a bog standard FPGA+ support circuit thrown on a PCB.

HC

If the ASICs turn out to be a scam, the scam side here will be all over the forum with "I told you so"s.

I wonder what will they say if the ASICs don't turn out to be a scam? As I don't think anyone from the asic side were 100% sure, so can't say I told you so.

Bitcoin is like a variation of Schrödinger's Cat. Everything about it is both scam and fully legit at the same time until you open the box.

I rather like this analysis.

Touche! This quote is signature material ... too bad I'm participating in this contest, lol. I call it dibs though.

This should go well with the signature:

 https://forums.butterflylabs.com/image.php?u=651&dateline=1350583667&type=profile

Disclaimer: found it in someone's profile on the portal.butterflylabs.com

ok well, got it. Atlas lately is absent anyway so I might as well ;)

You can use Paypal for BFL purchases. Hell I read somewhere someone used BillMeLater for a Jalapeno.

As long as you do not open the box all is well.

Next thing you know people are going to be screaming asic companies are poisoning cats.

PayPal DOES NOT guarantee return of your funds, EVEN if you flag the payment.
(something interesting I found out recently after a run in with a Chinese company selling fake goods).

HC

The problem is people pay good money for the box, so they care for the well being of the cat.

um, I bought my BFL SC with Paypal...with my credit card.

Where x is do they exist and psi is do you get your money back, solve for both in
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/7/f/f7fe4ae3ca36fd24aa51e1c9b442b04a.png
 and wait for the ponzi-wave function to collapse. It depends on when in scam-space-time you evaluate.

I actually decided against investing with ASICMINER in the end because of the project leader's forum name.

I haven't logged in before today in a while.  Last I remember was that BFL ASICs were coming out last month.  Did that ever happen?

Uh no. Not likely to happen this month either. MAYBE next month...if you're not naughty...but nice. :D

I had also considered that, but
 you paid an extra 5% and you will NOT be covered by the credit-card insurance.
The responsibility is then.... "you"-"paypal"-"BFL"  as opposed to  "You"-"Credit Card company"-"BFL", and I can tell you now that Paypal does not take kindly to credit card reversals against a paypal account.

?? Paypal does not like any reversals, doesn't necessarily make them less likely to happen. I ordered some item through paypal via credit card from a person, who did not deliver, and I did a reversal, it took 10 days, then they happily credited my card. Not sure where you are getting the idea that card reversals are some sort of universal paypal no-no?

That said, I'm guessing that with an active company like BFL, and the high sticker price of their products, you will likely see some hassle with a chargeback, and agree that just because it's a card purchase it will not be as cut and dry a matter to get your $$ back.

Different type of reversal(sorry I was not clear).
I have an Email from PPal, which makes it clear you only get a reversal between yourself/paypal/seller, IF the funds are available in the account of the SELLER.

The reversal I was talking about , is where I phone the CC company and BOUNCE the transaction locally between the card & paypal, when  they don't come up with the money from the original  transaction between the seller and myself, for that they will try to throw your account and any funds into dispute.

HC

troll much?  lol

I'm an eBay power seller. My only experience with paypal reversals is that all the customer has to do is say that they weren't satisfied with the weather on the day of the purchase and they automatically get their money back.

Agree to this one. Paypal "protects" buyer on any costs.

Buyers are even ENCOURAGED to file disputes. As a buyer, I remember once I had to file 2 or 3 disputes in a short time. I received an apologetic phone call from eBay, several apologetic e-mails, including 1 that had a gift certificate for $150.

They literally PAID me to abuse sellers.

Off-topic: every time I get a seller newsletter with all of their new updates and policies, I inch closer to completely stopping my business relationship with them. I've already moved at least half of my business off of their site because of their INSANE business practices. eBay and Paypal combined used to get over $1K a month from me. I know they're a multi-billion dollar business, but I can't be the only business actively moving away from them. If a thousand sellers my size leave, suddenly they're out $1M a month. Not exactly trivial, but they just don't fucking get it.

Imagine the box in front of you. Now imagine the sound of small fan motor. Did you drool?

http://www.search-best-cartoon.com/cartoon-dog/cartoon-dog-mining.jpg

I have some size 14, anyone know where I can pick up an adapter?? ???

what the holy fuck are you talking about?

+1.  Every purchase I was not satisfied with.. if I received the goods or not were fully refunded. That's why I always make purchases with CC or Paypal. Its called buyer protection.

It's called fleabay looting sellers. I won't even deal with those thieves any longer. They've helped too many people steal from me.

Well don't sell crap on line....ever item I wasn't satisfied with got R.T.S. Don't lie or mislead people about what your selling and you shouldn't have any problems.

I guess I should have actually described my experience instead of whining: I mean buyers actually defrauding sellers and having the full support of eBay. As in, I have to purchase serial coded warranty seals, take pictures of the items being packaged, video tape myself opening any items that are returned, and have the mailman sign sworn statements in case I have to go to court.

I've had people bitch up a storm about how I sent them a shitty item that didn't work, and they send back one that isn't even the same fucking color.

It goes both ways, I know, but eBay only protects the buyers. As a seller, if you have a problem with a buyer defrauding you, they WILL NOT help you. You either have to write it off as a loss or take it to court.

BOOM! DERAILED!

That isn't true, btw. eBay also fucks the buyers by allowing sellers who are known to peddle fraud continue to do so; they merely close the seller account, and the seller is free to open another one over and over since they don't ban the actual person even though they claim they do.

eBay is bad for everyone, imo.

I think we can all agree on that.

Sounds about right. PayPal...

Isn't there a time window though?...

I believe there is some kind of mystical inner working going on there. In my 13 years I have never once had a favorable result. I have always lost money (guaranteed) as a seller in -all- recallable "trouble" transactions.

I suppose as buyers that's good news for us then :)

Yay! A replacement for my BTCFPGA advertisement sig.


Actually, it only works if you filed for non-delivery 45 days or less (https://cms.paypal.com/al/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US#7.%20PayPal%20Buyer%20Protection.) after payment


Beyond that 45 days, you will need to do a chargeback on your credit card.

I don't think we won't see any ASIC devices until the split

Welcome to the world of Bitcoin where just about everything about it is shady, most stuff you see is some sort of scam, and every 'girl' on the forum is some fat dude sitting at his keyboard covered in Cheetos dust.  Enjoy the ride...

The ALLDATA M9 unit being loaded on to a truck for BFL assembly of the units
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178&d=1352245249 (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178&d=1352245249)
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177&d=1352245196&stc=1 (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177&d=1352245196&stc=1)
This is a video of what they do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz_enzQ0akY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz_enzQ0akY)

Original forum post and pics
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/125-BFL-ASIC-Update (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/125-BFL-ASIC-Update)
 
2cents

Actually idiot boy......
1. They show some pick and place machines being MOVED...... and NOTHING else.
2. Pick and place machines have very little if NOTHING to do with the availability of ASIC chips, the same way Ladders have little to do with Apple production.

HC

I have not seen any proof yet, but I check this forum everyday for hopes of seeing something from any company. I don't even care which company shows a unit hashing, just damn man someone let me see it hashing!  >:(

SHA256 has been AVAILABLE in ASICS for a good many years, what has not been available is the WILL and RESEARCH to correctly evaluate the systems available and then convert them into finished mining products.
I.E Computer code, faster computers, GPU research for other fields converted into bit-coin mining,  FPGA's, now ASIC's.

The growth has been 'organic'.........

Whilst all along ASICS were available for SHA256 PRIOR to the implementation of the bit-coin system.

Good news people!  Here are my order updates from bASIC.

It means FUCK all, I also have one of those.(and my order ID is WAY lower)
 BY LAW........
Credit cards/ some other forms of payment CANNOT be fully processed UNTIL an invoice has been printed and the goods are consigned to shipping, otherwise it is fraud.
SO........

I think we will see the first public ASICs in mid december. But I realize I'm a bit optimistic with that thought ;)

I hope your right and we see something before the split

Ah, that's likely not going to happen.  Split is just about 7 days out.  Assuming they had them completed, boxed and shipped out even early this week, with the US holiday on Thursday throwing off shipping, there's an extremely slim chance they'd get in anyone's hands in under a week.

Oh man I recieved a few of those boxes and I felt sick as I pulled the stuffed yellow pages books out of them. My friends that gathered all around never even laughed they all gasped..... It was packed so well too.

We all know the guys operating those machines and all the people in that building will be grabbing ASIC boards soon as they are done and be mining at home that night. If there is one thing you can count on and trust in it is people being GREEDY. There will be many ASIC boards out there mining away probably weeks before the official ones are shipped out. Also, if they are just getting delivered the hardware that makes the boards then from experience it takes a few months to get everything configured and up and running.

Nah, BFL claims they're outsourcing board construction for the first batch...fortunately or there may be some delays.<ducks>

I don't believe the PCB fabrication or population is really the bottleneck. They seem to be waiting for the ASIC spin to complete (with a functional chip). After that, the population of the PCBs could take a bit :/

Agreed. They ain't saying much, but that's what it seems like.

everyone's freakin out! all we can do is wait or get your money back ಠ_ಠ

lrt them freak out and cancel their orders than i can get mine sooner!!!  ;D

I also have a picture of a a boy sucking your mothers tits too. Is that you?

Gross, child porn?  :P