Bitcoin Forum

For some reason I can no longer quote or edit my posts, so I thought a thread no tied to BM would be useful since I will self-moderate it.

Should they offer refunds, difference between the pre-order B1 runs and B2/3 or some other appeasement? The current offer is after their "delay" window they will offer compensation that is laughable at best.

What would you like to see from BM?


Ufo

With the horrible "compensation" while they fix their pressings with using our gear to test, should they offer something besides their abysmal offerings at this point? Will they offer refunds or an acceptable compensation between B1 and the other batches since we know the B1 pressing is what prompted them to create B2/3?


Ufo

I have 1 s7 from 23 of september but it isnt work good.
It makes 4.45th. I ve paid a lot of btc include tax almost 10 btc and receive problem masnine.
I ve told them to declare less but they didnt do it.
So, 1823$÷4860=0.375 per gh.
Mine 4450×0.375=1668$
1823-1668=155$ and from the tax. About 200$.
So I want 200$ refund for this mashine.
I had 1 order more. I received from dhl that wait shipment. For me it delay .
So i ve want some refund and for second order from B1.
I hope they will be corect

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/65003238.jpg
This is how I feel.

Correct is they made us batch 3 price or return full money for delay. The problem is of company not for us, they promise shipping before day 11 and today said us make us a hasheesh contract but we don't want hasheesh contract.

If they want repair the problem first must return us full money or make us a bonus of difference price of batch 3 and batch 1.

For me is a scam buy 1 month ago and no send in time and new batch is more cheaper than my batch. I think i will denounce to police if they not return me full money or return me difference between batch 1 and batch 3.


What do you think??

I can feel with you guys and I understand it very well. But please come down to earth again. It is quite ridiculous, why in hell should Bitmain ("must" like murdito said) return the full money before they are allowed to repair it?

- There are no refunds, all sales are final
- The procedure of the warranty is quite clear

Haven't you read anything before buying it? Do you get a full payback of USD 60'000 from your cardealer when your car needs a service?

Come on... don't make this another cry thread.

ok maybe, but i do a sale to a fixed time frame, they not handle the sale in this timeframe, there is no final sale, there is no valid contract

this is no warranty inquiry, this has nothing todo with a valid warranty if there is no valid sale

They did warn if it was X day's past it would be considered late.  They did not have any TOS that offered refund if late.   Everyone assumed they would be fair and do something like a coupon for a decent amount.  But they did not do this they surprised everyone.

Since they don't a TOS on being late they don't really break any contract.   Did they lose peoples trust? Possibly.  But makes sales not valid, no as they don't have any TOS even close to that.

and thats the point
there is only a hand of companys in bitcoin-business that had a little rest of trust,
and i thought bitmaintech is one of them.
but what i see here is the same strategy that all the other shit companys have, eat or die
i lost a lot of money in the one and other bitcoin-company and thought bitmaintech is a safe deal,
and so the disappointment for this compensation is big

And the key word there is assumed.  It was a assumption it would be fair, not a promise or a contract.  All they promised was after X date it is considered late.

They left it wide open to make it up to them.  I understand that it sucks, and really can see compensation is really low.  But when you talk about say refund's they did not do anything that they have to give refunds, or even great compensation as they made up the selling rules.   

So it is not nice but boils down to a business decision over customer happiness.  Will all these thread's change their mind? I doubt it but you never know.

Exactly!

@toni_maroni

There is no timeframe. Maybe you are referring to their:

"Shipping may start between Oct. 15 ~ 25 (if shipped out 10 days later than it, it won't be considered as delay)"

I knew that the first batch was overpriced and I waited a little more. It is quite normal that prices are going down with their next batches. I'm sure Bitmain will ship out (and that doesn't mean delivered) your miner within the next week and before batch 2+3 is shipped out (that will be in November).

PS: The warranty-thing is referring to murdito and is also discussed in another thread. I know what scam is (they dont deliver for months and mostly never will) and I dont think / want to mention Bitmain with real scammers. Because they deliver the gear and are quite honest with their products.

For example the S7 batch 2 is still within their +/- 5% range and is still a bit cheaper -> that is fair play to me.

I find it hard to believe that we are comparing Bitmaintech to KNC and such companies for being 1 to 7 days late of their targeted shipping window. I bet if they didn't revealed B2 and 3 prices, this situation wouldn't have arrived. I received my S7 ordered on Aug 30, but waiting on order placed on Sep 5 and 29. If I ordered everything as late as Sep 2, I would have received my miners on time. However, Bitmain should increase compensation to appease B1 buyers but it is totally up to them. I know I will pre-order their 16nm miner next year even if they don't provide any further compensation for S7, and many others will too. I hope all these bickering do not make Bitmain to stop selling to end users.

to many bitmain fanboys here, i give up.
my point is, this strategy is not fair and i am angry about there compensation, im done with this

You have it right Tony, you really do. On two points as a matter of fact:
1. There are way too many fanboys here who haven't had a bit of experience inside a real business who deals with other businesses and customers all over the world. If some of you had that experience you would know this is not how people should be treated and it does make a difference to tell them how you feel if you back that up with your money. Don't buy the next thing because they treated your fellow community members like shit. Don't support them, and stop licking their boots.

2. It is not right, what Bitmain have done is just as bad as other companies. They are displaying another lack of caring about the individual miners out here trying to make a go of it. Some of you decide to keep kissing their ass rather than support the people who are here supporting you every day. Hell, many of the fanboys do not even have a miner on order with Bitmain in batch 1 which blows my mind how they can argue for bitmain. People did speak out and expect things to be better than coupons, and even when they expected that and received less, they still back up bitmain. It is sad, and I take no solace in knowing the same thing will happen to them. IT doesn't make me feel any better knowing they will get ripped off in the future. Even worse, they will still lick the boots and say "yeah, it is ok bitmain, I understand, you like to take my money and play with it for a while. You can run my miner for a month or two before sending it to me. I don't mind."

You guys keep on being bitmains happy little foot soldier and keep helping them fuck the other people in this community because that is what you are doing. By defending or supporting them you are certainly not helping anyone except them, not even yourself, and much less your fellow miner. Oh I don't think there is an intentional action by any of these guys to help bitmain fuck people around, I think they are either too stupid, inexperienced, and maybe there are even a few who are too greedy, but most, just plain haven't lived in a real business world in their lives and think this is OK.

Past performance doesn't matter fuck all when the current situation is detrimental and the open actions are ignored, crap quality is shipped, and customer service is non existent.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that bitmain put that statement on the sales sheet because they knew there was a problem with delivery then? It is not a common thing to say "if we are x days behind then it will not be considered late". Do you boot lickers think they did that just for the hell of it this time?
Keep talking shit with eyes wide shut, if you have any decency it will still give you pause to look in the mirror and help you keep telling yourself how great it is you didn't have your money on the line but you can come tell us who are fucked over how we should feel about it.

Well I dont agree. Im not a fanboy, I just said "they deliver the gear".

1. I know very well what a "real business" is and I'm maybe wise enough to know that the bitcoin-industy is not a common business at all. Because it is still nerd stuff you are buying. Today you cant call a few 10'000 miners as a mass production.

2. I agree with that, but I'm not thinking of calling Bitmain as bad as other companies (regarding to Bitmine and knc). <- maybe I misinterpreted that...

There was a time Bitmain had competition and their service was a little more considerate.
But now they are the only company you can buy a miner from that MAY make a profit.
They essentially have a monopoly when it comes to small miners like ourselves.  There is no where else to go if we are unhappy and they know it.
So don't expect them to go out of their way to "do what is right."
Just know when you buy something from them that if a benefit is not explicitly in writing, it won't happen.
Cry about it all you want.  But they have no incentive to work hard for our good will.  Buyer beware.

"Don't expect them to go out of their way to "do what is right"
Unfortunately, I have to agree. We cannot expect bitmain to do what is right.

Now if you are referring to me about crying about it, you are mistaking me stating my involved opinion for crying. I very much have a right to be pissed off at this company for their actions that we agree are wrong. I am personally impacted by their inability to work hard for good will and I plan to continue to call them out at every turn. I have every intention of placing a spotlight on this and I also have every right to do so. I ordered a miner in batch 1 and am a victim of their lack of doing the right thing. I plan to make sure this is discussed on a larger scale than what we have here.

I previously did expect them to do right. It is stupid to think there will not be competition again, because there will be another SPtech. There are other companies in the mining game who will take a leap at selling miners to the public.

We will see how far this lack of incentive to work hard for our good will gets companies when there is competition again. I have no doubt there will always be people who overlook, defend, and say whatever in these situations, they haven't lost anything, what do they care. I care even if I haven't been ripped off. I care because I would like to see something succesful happen here. IF this was about making a profit I wouldn't have bought the miners I have, and certainly wouldn't have purchased the S7, this is about being treated correctly and seeing my fellow community members, and this experiment in currency growing into something formidable. This ecosystem needs to be powered by people and companies who are less selfish and are part of the community, not leaching from it. We need partners in this effort, not companies where we are unable to expect them to make the right choices for themselves as a proper business.

We should have higher expectations of these companies, and especially bitmain.

For the gentleman calling this "nerd stuff", I respectfully disagree. This "nerd stuff" has the potential to be life changing for some extremely poor people around the world. I think many people fail to see how these decisions by bitmain are not only a lack of good will, but a sheer lack of even them caring about their own business, and not caring how they are portrayed in the media. This gives the media yet another example of how the bitcoin community is nothing but a bunch off druggies, scam artists, and rip offs. This shows them how we support such. How are people supposed to feel their money is safe in bitcoin when the only company where you can purchase the very thing that secures the network, well, that company doesn't care much about that, they have no concern about doing what is right, and what they do care about is instant gratification, among other things which certainly have little to do with customer service and reputation.

No one is saying this is a good thing, but we can have in-fighting regarding the severity of how bad it is. That in itself is confusing and speaks volumes to the outside world looking in.

Maybe more people could spend a minute thinking of why they are involved with bitcoin. I apologize, because I thought most of us are here to take part in making something better. Normally in my life that is the reason I take part in a project, to make it a better overall experience for all of us who care and want to possibly experience something which has the power to change our current way of thinking about currency. It all starts and ends with the small building blocks along the way.

I believe we have seen very few people who are happy with the few S7s which have shipped. Finally bitmain have admitted the issue publicly, but the plan to resolve it, and how they intend to complete the sale is not what I agreed to when I sent my money. If someone thinks I am unreasonable in my expectations, I think they should evaluate theirs.
I do expect to receive what I paid for without resorting to fine print being twisted and if that is the world some of you wish to live in then keep making those choices, and keep allowing that for yourself, but do not tell me I am wrong for expecting to be treated as any paying customer should be.

This is another building block for bitcoin, and if we want a successful bitcoin environment we must not only ask for it, but fight for it. Accepting it is now the status quo to be taken advantage of is not on my agenda, but I respect anyone else's right to be happy with low expectations. If you are happy with such, you have an S7 miner on order, and do not think there is anything to be done, hey that is your right. I will defend your right to be happy with such, but please respect my right to be extremely unhappy. Call it crying if you want, I call it reasonable dialog regarding something which could be a stepping stone in a life changing protocol. I hope you respect my right to voice concerns when my mining peers are treated as though they are nothing and do not matter.

Agreed. I'm about to reconsider my opinion.

very big thank to sloopy,
i am not fluent in english and its hard for me to write all what i feel about this situation,
but sloopy can perfekt write what i think.
thx again

Actually I've had those thoughts with Bitcoin for a better world around two weeks ago. Thats why I agreed so quickly. Sloopy is absolutely right about that, there are a lot of people out there (middle and south america, north korean, africa ...) who really could use bitcoins for a better living and that we have to stick together.

Woot, isnt this the reason why people get into bitcoin? Cmon guys, the get rich train is gone! ^^ (Not really, but hey)

This is a little off-topic, but I really want to recommend these video's for informational purposes:

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/bitcoindoc/109974663 - The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin.
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/bitcoin/133011651 - The end of money as we know it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrRXP1tp6Kw - Propaganda, but this is really what btc is all about.

And while I'm at it I want to recommend these videos by Hans Rosling, a swedish professor who really knows his shit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ks064fU7_M - "Don't panic", he talks about population growth, and how the world has changed. If you watch this 1 hour video, I promise, you will learn something new, and your world view will change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm5xF-UYgdg - How not to be ignorant about the world.

Rosling's videos are not Bitcoin related, but it helps you understand the world, and might give you a few ideas how bitcoin could be used in the future.
2,000,000,000 people n this world are un-banked, meaning they don't have access to a bank/financial system, with all the possibilities that provides. Many of them however have access to smartphones, which enables banking thru Bitcoin. Think about it.

If you really want to understand how being denied access to financial services affects people, you should watch this as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmQujWTMuC8

And finally, if you want to enable people to succeed, you should check out btcjam.com, a peer-to-peer lending platform. Success story: http://blog.btcjam.com/2014/12/03/borrower-story-mombasa-kenya/
Warning: Be prepared to lose your money if you lend them to people on btcjam, there are a lot of scammy people.

 

+1 sloopy

On units that they missed their (VERY LAX) shipping target date, they should at least offer a refund down to the Batch 2/3 level pricing, or the option to cancel your order for a FULL refund.

 Their "give you hashrate" offer is a joke, given their HIGH charge for electric they will be taking out of that "offer" - I dount there are very many folks with 8c/KWH or higher electric cost that bought S7s.


 Makes me VERY happy I decided to ignore the S7.

Not referring to anyone "crying" in particular. 

I HAVE THE SAME SITUATION.

Yesterday Bitman reply me a email saying that week will be shipped but today continue Batch 1 UNSHIPPED.

How i can reclaim hasnnest fee that they say will offer for delay?

Regards.

By waiting for more information. This is something they'll sort out much after.

What bothers me about the compensation plan they have in place is that at the end of the day, they have clearly encountered a road bump as orders did not ship out in time.  But the compensation plan that is in place (with the full market rate of $0.098/kWh for "hosting") costs them essentially nothing out of pocket.  It's the same earnings that we would have been had if we had bought S7's through Hashnest (in fact less, because most people pre-ordered the S7's well before they were available in cloud mining).

When my company fucks up, our compensation costs us something in order for the customer to receive some kind of benefit.  With their compensation in place, most of the customers that have delays are losing money due to their cheaper electricity costs, meaning it's not actual compensation, it's throwing scraps to prevent a riot.

are there any news about this compensation plan? i hear nothing from bitmain, miner that i
ordered 04.09.2015 arrived at 20.10.2015
i was in hope to become a coupon or something, but nothing visible in account.

the key is "i am done with this"

A) use ebay
B) pay with paypal

Buy from a private seller on a resale.

Here is the deal on bitmaintech 90% of the time they are pretty good.

they other 10% they are not.

I ordered my batch ones on day one hour one I did great with them.

I played around tried to out guess them on batch 2 I got fucked a coin.

I could have purchased 3 from batch 1 on day one that is my bad.

They could have been fair about batch 2 that is their bad.

point one: i am done to discuss with this fanboys, and done with bitmain, i sold the s7 as fast as i can
point two: i dont know what your answer have to do with my question?
my question was:

i know you are a bitmain-miner fan and thats ok, i sold my s7 yesterday and be happy to become back
what i payed.
i come back to see, bitmain post this lovely plan 18days before and there is nothing new.
maybe i cant find it, but maybe you have more information like me, i think you have the better
rapport to bitmain

PS: it was A) Ebay
PSS: i learned my lession and will never buy a Batch1

I didn't want to quote my who bit of ragamaro, and thanks for the kind words to the positive comments.

Swimmer63, I think most frustrations are directed at Bitmain, or, meant towards Bitmain but directed towards each other. I don't think most people will argue Bitmain can come through with a good product from time to time. The S7 is available, and has a top efficiency claim among us, and I imagine a whole bunch more people who never say peep.

I apologize if I generalized you with something I said, I did not mean it towards any individual as much as I meant these things to everyone. Some people may fall in those categories, well some people DO fall in those categories but I don't know that matters as much as no one argues Bitmain has at times had both good and bad support issues, but there are particular things people feel like they are being taken advantage of because it is the only choice.
My S7s are running great, but personally I've had tough experiences getting there, and with most other products. There are good and bad. I enjoy hearing good posts, about things going well, but there are negative ones.

Maybe we will see some choice before first quarter 2016, but will the halving scare people or will people mine as hard as they can all the way to the halving line and through it to see what happens?