Bitcoin Forum

Dunno if this is the right place to post this.

Well I'm uncertain if the Op said he would pay a bounty for information about a pair of sunglasses he would reward the closeist with $15 after 48 hours.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1207996.20

Am I being to trigger happy ?

For reference #13:


as well as the entire thread -> https://archive.is/0Aq2r

I will leave a rating, but honestly the lot in the thread pretty much asked to get scammed. Everyone freely provided possible answers without a single one even posting the word escrow.

I do agree with shorena as I'm also one of those who participated on the thread and not sure why I did the research for the bounty on this case before seeing an actual proof of the reward until it was too late to act for getting it to escrow in which all of us are affected by wasting our effort for the guy

same here, I was one of those who participated on this and I see a lot who joined the hunt and made some effort to look for the glasses but yes no escrow was asked from OP. Everyone was busy searching I guess, and that includes me.

Probably.

Even though everyone who participated in the contest is basically asking to be "scammed" (for their research), I'd say that leaving a negative trust rating would be overkill in this situation. There's a decent chance that the OP is going to actually pay.

But here's what you should do, instead of just negative repping him.

1) Someone (preferably on DT) PMs him to accept escrow.
2) If they refuse without a valid reason, neg rep them.

Done.

Now that sounds like a much better idea. Whoever is going to PM the Op from that thread should also do this one :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1214498.0

They are 4 days (106 hours to be exact) over the "Ill pay you" time. If they come back and pay the bounty im perfectly fine to remove the rating.

The amount was quite small compared to other users who offered a bounty for similar tasks. There were many such threads earlier with people offering 0.2 BTC and that time also nobody asked for an escrow but now I think it is very important that I and other users should demand the OPs to hold their funds in an escrow else people like "Hello Im me" and others will escape with just a negative rating as it doesn't matter to them as they have new accounts.

Ah, sorry, missed that. Yeah, if he is overdue then a negative rating is definitely in order. I got to the 2nd page and figured that the next 2 would be the same. However, the topic the OP mentioned here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1215251.msg12740107#msg12740107) should be PMed.

I don't think he will pay, everyday he logs in and ignores that thread, today he logged in he might have noticed that there's a negative trust in his account which is a giveaway actually since it's a Newbie rank. Lesson learned here.

i think the neg is not necessary until he has committed a crime...
maybe neutral stating he is doing something this absurd is ok?

So when I promise you and your friends that one of you gets paid if you clean my messy car and just drive off once you are done, thats ok in your book?

I just realized that my account has negative rep. Sorry for the confusion.

It clearly states in the OP terms:


During the comments I state that the closest answer wins, however, this is a subjective comment and not part of the original terms. In my opinion, no one found sunglasses that were close to what I was after and I did not end up buying any of the suggestions. If the terms changed, why would only half of the agreement change, which means I pay full price for something that I did not want? How is this fair? Notice how critical my subsequent posts are in the thread? Obviously I am seeking something very specific.

I am saddened that people act before using common sense. Not one person messaged me about this thread.

So when I change our deal midway I dont have to honor the changes? You motivated people to invest time in finding something for you with this statement, this is what you wanted according to your own words. Obviously you looked for something specific, but you also said

The terms were in the OP. Were the terms changed and was the OP updated? No.

Here's a car wash example; I state that I'll pay $15 for my car to be washed (this takes x amount of time, effort and material). As I want my car washed promptly, I then tell the washers that they only need to clean the tyres.

So I originally was going to pay $15 for a full car wash, why would I pay $15 for only my tyres (that takes significantly less time, effort and material)? What if I deem the tyre clean unsatisfactory? Would you still pay for a half assed job? No. IF someone still washed my car fully, then they would be entitled to the original agreement.

I think your reasoning is flawed and I'm not sure why you have 'trust'.

So only the first post counts? Was that a rule that was clearly known to those involved? Is that a normal and common behaviour in trades?


To make it clear here, x is unknown for everyone involved. Finding a specific pair of glasses is not a priori achievable with fixed amounts of time, effort and material. From taking a look at a dirty car its pretty evident how much work, efford and material is involved/needed.


This is not what you said though. You said - to stay with the example - "wash it as good as possible in the next 48 hours and I will pay the person that did the best job."


Because you said you would.


If you dont want to change the agreement you should not announce a change in the agreement.


I dont think so, but this is hardly the topic here. I have the impression you tried to weasel out of a statement you made and later regretted.

I never used an escrow nor would i.
I trust the people i trade with.
WOW what a concept huh..

NO i have not had a bad trade ever either.
So what now we're going to give people negative trust for NOT "talking" about Escrow's ?  ::)

DO i have to point out the obvious ?

People with no reputation should not be doing deals.. if you choose to work with a noob then it's your prerogative / risk.

Trying to make some little faggy economy out off lending money to noob accounts
on a forum that has NO rules about scamming AND has a horrendous track record is fucking retarded..
Escrow or not !

Who the fuck goes and uses their forum account as collateral to borrow Bitcoin ?
apparently shitloads of you here do  ::)
Can you say that out loud to yourself and not laugh ?
What a fucking joke. ROFL

Yes, I gave everyone in that thread a negative rating because they did not insist on escrow. I think you are smarter than this.


Yes and a common way for this is to involve someone with reputation.

If this is the case, then how do people with no reputation then gain reputation? The reason I have my reputation is because people traded with me and I followed through with my word, though if they followed your logic I wouldn't have any of it as no one would have traded with me.
Escrow is a way to trade with people with no reputation and be sure that you won't be scammed. Though apparently using escrow is a bad move because you should trust the people that you trade with. ???

Since you are clearly struggling to justify your rating, here is another example.

Let's pretend the terms were stated in the OP; that I will pay $15 for someone to find the EXACT sunglasses. Let's say the thread is 6 pages long and somewhere in those 6 pages I state that I no longer plan on paying a reward. Obviously everyone will see the OP but it is unlikely that they will see that the terms have changed, which would be deemed unfair.

Even though the unchanged OP clearly states the terms, I no longer have to pay a bounty because I buried a response in that thread that overrules the original terms?

Is this what you're trying to say? Because if this is so, the mods need to review your account. All I have done in that example is switch the current scenario, thus highlighting your misjudgement.

Wow! I never thought you'll be back to defend your self. I was one of those who actively searched for that glasses but unfortunately I didn't find the exact match, but what made me continue to search for the glasses, it's because you said who ever give at least the nearest match will get something and I said to my self not bad at all so I continue. If you didn't posted that, I would have stopped and moved on. Anyway that's done and good luck to you.

The only thing Im struggling with is why you are unable to see that you did something dishonest or at the very least something can be seen as an attempt to deceive. In your world it seems perfectly fine to change your stance on a whim and not be help responsible for your words.


Good point, there are two ways to see this.

#1 Everyone should keep up to date. People that dont check the updates can only blame themselves. This tends to happen though and most of the time someone will quickly remind them that the terms have changed. Common examples are people trying to join a signature campaign that is no longer accepting new members. This is even missed if its clearly state in the OP.

This also happened in your case:





You also did not make a single statement after the 48 hours had passed even though you had been online.


#2 Changing the terms at a later date to less desirable terms for those working for you puts you in a position that makes sure they know about the new terms. Trying to sneak in new terms in your favor somehow is not exactly what I would call a beacon of trustworthiness.

So basically it boils down to whether comments made in a thread should be deemed as a revision to the original terms. If so, this opens the floodgate for abuse.

Essentially yes. As you can see from the reactions in your thread as well as the comment by lemipawa here. You motivated people to invest more time with that comment. People here are eager to do a high amount of work for a little reward. That might be because they have no other options due to lack of education, age or possibilities. I dont know, maybe they dont perceive it as work, dont mind or enjoy it. Be that as it may, you should still honor your word.

Hmm I don't see this dispute being settled as it is a very gray area. However, I also don't like my forum reputation being dragged through the mud. Considering $15 = 0.03 BTC, I'll make the payment to the user who posted an image of the sunglasses that most resemble what I ended up buying. This is contingent on my negative trust rating being removed.

Deal?

LOL.  Probably no deal.  Extortion is yet another sign of dishonesty.

If they can find a solution with those in the thread I see no problem to remove my rating. The solution however is not to send me coins, but I also didnt understand it that way.

You are kinder than me.  If the user can't understand they need to do the proper thing without a reward, I don't feel sorry for them.

I'm trying to end this dispute by reversing everything to its original state, I'm not sure what your problem is.

Maybe negative trust, but there was no btc risked losing just by giving him an answer  ;)

So your time has no value?

Have you paid out the bounty yet as you stated you would?  48 hours came and went three months ago.   :-\

You owe me 30 satoshi for the time it took to read your comment and reply!

Careful, bitcointalk is full of users on power trips. My argument was well balanced to why changing terms mid-thread can set a bad precedent for future cases, but apparently logic doesn't exist here. I don't really care, at the end of the day, it is only ~0.03 BTC

Thanks for the neg rep, your actions just cost someone $15.

Oh, after three months you were suddenly going to pay?  

Clearly.

Nothing is stopping you from repaying.   ::)

You know that negative trust can be removed, but you are waiting for a reward to stick to your word.

In the end, you won't pay a cent and will just move on to a different account.

No, you complicated everything. I know your character and I know you won't remove the neg trust after I pay the $15.