Bitcoin Forum

I am opening this thread to help get a group shipment of Denarium Silver coins to the US for a reasonable price.

UPDATE 3/31:

Package has arrived in the US, and should be getting it soon.

Will be sending out a message to everyone to confirm shipping details.


Cost Breakdown (So Far):

60 Euros for Denarium to Mitchell (0.15BTC)
Estimated at 26 Euros to ship to the US (0.07BTC)

Estimated US shipping of $6 for flat rate boxes, any additional services will incur additional fees (Signature confirmation, etc.)

Optional: Grading Coins $20 per coin, $3 for imaging of coin

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(Price Breakdown per Person)
60 Euros for Denarium to Mitchell (0.15BTC)
Estimated at 26 Euros to ship to the US (0.07BTC)

0.22BTC / 9 people = 0.0244 per person

$6 for flat rate box shipping (0.015 per person)


So overall each person is getting coins shipped to them for approximately 0.04BTC or just under $17.

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Silver 1BTC Coins
Empty Coins on sale now: https://denarium.com/product/denarium-1-btc-empty (https://denarium.com/product/denarium-1-btc-empty)

Loaded Coins on Sale now: https://denarium.com/product/denarium-1-btc (https://denarium.com/product/denarium-1-btc)


I will be working on contacting techomage to have a group package sent and have a complete list of coins that belong to each person that had won/bought coins from his auctions.


How Shipping Will Work:
We will have Denarium ship to Mitchell, Mitchell will then re-ship to me, I will then divide up the coins and ship to the respective buyers.


United States:

	|	BCT Name	|	Grading?	|
	|	Bithalo	|	No	|
	|	bigbeninlondon	|	Yes	|
	|	bookofnick	|	Maybe	|
	|	minerjones	|	No	|
	|	digicoinuser	|	Yes	|
	|	Blazed	|	Yes	|
	|	Montreal	|	Yes	|
	|	BitEnvy	|	No	|
	|	ezeminer	|	Yes	|

More information will be given in the coming weeks.

If you have questions, comments, or any concerns please post here and I will respond ASAP.

I would like to be in the group buy.  I would like to get one of the auction 1 BTC coins, should I win one, and ideally one of the custom unfunded coins from the website, when its available in Dec.  I can wait a month for that other coin.  I'm in the US.

To clarify, monkeynuts hasnt offered to do this.  However should he wish to, I would recommend him.  It would be worthwhile for someone else in Europe to reship the package to the US group buy leader, in order to avoid the 60 Euro Finland charge.

Also we could potentially get loaded coins if that interests buyers. Only because Technomage can't send loaded coins to the US.

Great point.  That would be even a better reason to ask someone in Europe to be a go-between.

As far as I know even funded coins get shipped unfunded. When you buy a funded coin:

- you paid for the coin + funded amount BTC
- the coin is shipped unfunded
- as soon as you have received the unfunded coin you can active the coin thru their website and the coin gets funded

this way they can ship any coin to the USA and also if an European assists with shipping it is no problem because he/she will ship unfunded coins too to the USA.

I do trust them, I bought their 1/10 and 1/100 coins, received them unfunded, activated thru their website and they were funded same day. I prefer it this way, when coins do get lost or hold by customs you would loose the BTC value, only coin value.

Happy to help. Eze has PMd me.

Thank you monkeynuts.

Bumping.

Auction ends in 18.5 hours.

PM or post here if you are interested in joining the group shipment.

After this auction, two more will be held for 15 coins each.

I'd be interested in a group buy thru an EU intermediary that could get me a couple loaded coins to a US address..

I mean if we want to do a huge group shipment of various coins from the EU... Just depends on how monkeynuts would feel about adding other coins.

Also when payments are sorted out. How would you guys feel about splitting the cost based on coins purchased, or just individuals participating? (individuals would be split equally amount the group of people. while coin split would be based on how many coins you purchased compared to the rest of the group)

I am happy shipping any number of coins.

If the number gets such that it justifies it, I can use my UPS account. I get roughly 50% off, so ballpark £35 - £40 delivery to US, with express delivery. And I trust it 100%. End to end with just 1 company. Insurance is 1% of stated value, but with physical cryptos, I generally just put spot of the metal values (but would be happy to do whatever was needed)

I have had Monkey ship me very high valued coins with 0 issues...multiple times.

We want to keep the aftermarket simple and more logical. Like if someone wants to buy a L series coin second hand, he can be significantly more sure that it actually has the bitcoins inside as compared to a situation where someone is selling an E series coin and claims it has bitcoins inside - that has to be verified more carefully, using the blockchain. We recommend doing that with L series coins as well but it is not as important.

If we didn't load the L series coin ourselves, we can't be sure that it will actually be loaded by the customer. It's completely up to the customer. He can simply not load it and try to sell it as loaded, if he is a scammer. Makes it slightly easier to do scams.

It's good to know though that the E series coins are significantly more rare actually, than the L series. Our sales are approximately 70-80% L-series and 20-30% E-series. Not sure how that will change with our new Custom Value coin and the Multisig option, but still. Well I can already say that most Custom Value coins have been ordered as empty (E-series) so the distribution is quite different, at least in the beginning.

Well, both. We have produced all 4,000 of the 1/10 & 1/100 batch and the ones we haven't sold, we produced as L or E based on the distribution of sales thus far.

With the Custom Value coins and 1 BTC coins we haven't produced anything yet so the pre-orders will determine the distribution.

Auction Ending in one hour and 20 minutes.

Current list by mitchell

I am in for the combined shipping of this coin as I'm not feeling good about paying ~$60 for shipping.   :)

If you are one of the lucky 20, Please message Technomage and fill out necessary information as well as send it to the UK.

The list changed a lot in the last moments of the auction!

ezeminer,
If there is a delinquent buyer, I believe you are up next.   8)

There actually is. ezeminer has won a coin. :)

Darn...I got caught up in work and couldnt follow the auction in the last hour.  I missed a coin.

If I dont win one of the 3 auctions, I will still order a 1 BTC coin off the website and still want to do the group buy.

Personally I think people at the last moment bid much higher than I would have expected.

If anyone wants to buy loaded coins, I would be gad to help out with reshipping.

Thank you for the offer Mitchell. You're a good guy :D

I am currently working with monkeynuts to get all the logistics figured out. But if people feel the need for a higher trust member, I wouldn't mind working with you to figure out all necessary information for reshipping (no offense to monkeynuts).

Oh monkeynuts is doing reshipping already? Then I withdraw my offer as I don't want to be in anyone's way.

Updated OP with instructions on shipping point.

It also looks like many people have gone for the A series coins compared to the L, E, and M.


Sneaky Edit: I was told by technomage that shipping to the UK would be 56.5 euros.
So I am currently talking to mitchell about having a relay there.
To ship to the netherlands it is 25 euros from what I have been quoted by Technomage

I am also talking to Mitcheł for reshipping. So maybe Mitchełł can start a "Group shipping" so that we share shipping cost? Shipping to germay cost 56€ too!:(

Yea those darn UK, USA, Germany shipping points :/

I would not mind, almost feels like mitchell will be a relay point for everyone... I wouldn't want to overburden him with being BCT's relay for denariums.

I'm used to reshipping and shipping coins, so I don't mind (in fact I reshipped something yesterday). I mean, I did do three group buys for Kialara. :P

ok, awesome! So I'm in for the group shipping. Thank you Mitchełł!

I should probably two tier the payments, if everyone wants me to handle that. Or mitchell you can handle everything to you, and I get the rest?
One for all participating in the shipment to mitchell and one for all that will have US or North American Shipping.

I would get everybody to pay Technomage for their coins. After that ask Technomage to bundle the orders and sent that to me as a package (and spread the shipping costs among the participants). Once the coins have been sent to me, I would just collect payments for reshipment and send them off to where ever they need to go.

So I could ship all American coins to you ezeminer, after which you distribute them within America and I would do all the European ones myself.

That Sounds like a deal. Currently I am having anyone included in the buy say Group Buy in the shipping field that technomage requests.

I'm in for US shipping.  60 EUR is super steep.

I know I'm a newbie on here but I would be in for a combined ship too if that's cool. Any idea an approx cost or how many people are planning to ship to US?

The breakdown will be the shipping costs from denarium to mitchell to me will be split among all of us. The rest will be individual, and if it is one or two coins each I'll have padded yellow envelopes for small orders that'll be like $5 shipped with tracking. Flat rate boxes for those with more. I'll probably buy a small digital scale to get exact numbers on postage.

Also it is something like 50 euros to ship all the way to me, down from 66.

#2 Auction Ending in less than 2 hours

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1232465.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1232465.0)

id like to jump on this group if I can. Thank you!

Updated list. Also going to update later with all interested parties.

Bump, Final Auction is live.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241400.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241400.0)

I am interested in this group-buy for the final Denarium auction.  I'm located in the central USA.

Added to the list.

Confirming that I'll be using the group buy for both an Auction 1B as well as one of the other non denomination coins sold later on their site.

Bumping

Empty Coins on sale now: https://denarium.com/product/denarium-1-btc-empty (https://denarium.com/product/denarium-1-btc-empty)

Loaded Coins on Sale now: https://denarium.com/product/denarium-1-btc (https://denarium.com/product/denarium-1-btc)

Is this group buy still on by the way?

Yea. Orders will not ship until 2016, so I was waiting on more details from technomage

I know, but I wasn't sure if this was still active/being done as I didn't hear anything, which is why I asked. ;D

Bumping. Can include custom loaded coins as well in this shipment if you can wait till after the holidays.

Add me for a 1 BTC silver piece. I'm in the states.

What do I do from here? Complete the buy order at denarium.com and just list "Group Buy" as the shipping destination?

Yes, just list Group Buy" as the shipping destination.

I want to participate in this Group Buy, too btw ;)

It's best to PM me if you want to participate in the group shipping. As I will need to set up a free shipping coupon code so you're not paying for the shipping. This needs to be done in addition to putting "group shipping" in the information.

Replied

PMed you yesterday :)

Technomage PMed me the code to enter at checkout. Order placed! Is there anything else I need to do now?

So is there any news here?  Auctions are all over, no?  Do we have a final estimate on cost? 

Just a FYI to the OP...

I paid Denarium for both a winning Auction of a 1B Silver (#A36), and an order for one Empty Custom coin as well.

Before shopping I will grab a list from techno and check with everyone that the coins shopping are correct.

I'd like to pick one up and participate in the US group shipping.  :)

What is the code to enter during checkout?  Someone can PM me if it isn't public information.

Here's the answer Digi, I do not know because I paid directly after the auction.

Thanks for the information, I have been in touch with Technomage and purchased one.  Please add me to the list and I'm looking forward to the coin!

I added a second 1 BTC Coin using the January discount, only one more "unloaded" left on the site.   ;)

I am looking to to join the groupbuy.  How is the shipping going to be split? Is it by weight or number of coins? Are there going to be any import duties or fees for the re-shipper?

The Chain of shipping will work like this, Denarium ships to Mitchell, Mitchell ships to me, I distribute to everyone else.

Shipping costs between Mitchell and I:
I will split the shipping cost by coin. Unless the consensus is to split by weight. If so I will get a digital scale and work from there.

Shipping Costs to you:
I will ship coins by US priority mail flat rate boxes with nice and cozy bubblewrap. It'll be $6 inside the US. If you don't want tracking I believe I can ship for something like $2-3.

If shipping to Canada, it should be somewhere around $5-8 in a bubble envelope. If by priority mail boxes around $21.

I also picked up another coin using the new discount code (BTW Denarium updated the page and now there are now around 25 of the Empty 1 BTC coins shown as in stock. Was down to one remaining coin in stock a couple days ago).

That brings my total to 2 coins for the group buy. Thanks ezeminer (and technomage)!

I have been trying to check around, I believe VAT is pretty much on everything that is incoming europe. Finland has a VAT of 23% it looks like. Mitchell might have to clarify this.

Also looking for research on shipping silver around, but hard for me to find the correct keywords.



This was a while back, but I had discussed with Mitchell about the pricing.
https://i.gyazo.com/23f8ba4c21f3009a00762fb287bfd85b.png



UPDATE: Updated the OP to be a little easier for people to understand.

As Finland and The Netherlands are both in the EU, I don't have to pay VAT or import costs on the coins received from Denarium.

I would like to join the groupbuy as long as there is no VAT. What about a local in Finland? Do they still have to pay VAT?

I was talking about customs VAT in my own country, not sales VAT. No idea how that is done in Finland or what Denarium includes in their VAT statement.

Interested in a loaded bull coin, but have some concerns...

I am concerned about quality after seeing Mitchells coin and hearing they knew coins were bad quality but sold anyways. I assume I have the option of a refund if the quality is not good? Why is it a pre-order for a small run of coins? I assume we will see high-quality pictures before the coins ship?

If so I will take 1 x Loaded Bull coin

Yes, Denarium stated during the auction that one will get a refund if you are not satified with coin quality.

In Addition the silver coins will have a better quality because of additional mechanical tooling steps.

Alright, then that sounds good to me. ezminer...let me know what my cost would be for a coin shipped to me then.

Hello guys,

All the purchases from the auction: if they include VAT, it is included in the price you already paid. We never mentioned VAT in the auction so we can't add VAT to anything, it wouldn't be fair. So there will be no extra VAT on anything anyone has already paid. Although the shipping cost will likely include VAT if you're routing the group shipping through the EU but that won't be a significant cost issue.

As for the quality of the coins, they will be better quality than our previous coins. We're making sure of that. For that price our customers should expect better quality so we have to deliver.

I'll message them for a quote. I can't give you an exact amount yet, although I have looked around here for price quotes. This link will download a pdf from the postnl site: http://www.postnl.com/mail/international-mail-delivery/bulk-mail/ (http://www.postnl.com/mail/international-mail-delivery/bulk-mail/)
http://www.postnl.com/Images/rates-sheetlet_tcm19-23153.pdf (http://www.postnl.com/Images/rates-sheetlet_tcm19-23153.pdf)
It also says rates are exempt from VAT.
But we would also have to see about calling this a gift at under $100 based on their link here:
http://www.postnl.com/mail/mail-delivery-netherlands/international-mailing-restrictions-limitations/?country=us (http://www.postnl.com/mail/mail-delivery-netherlands/international-mailing-restrictions-limitations/?country=us)


If we estimate say 20 1oz coins. This comes to 15.18 euros or roughly $16.50 from Mitchell to I. 25 Euros ($27.13) from Denarium to Mitchell.
Comes to roughly $2.20 per coin.
Add $6 for regular priority mail in the US. Or you can do a bubble envelope for like $3 without tracking.

Say you order 1 Silver Bull. Comes to about $8.18 priority, $5.18 without priority.

That's about as close as I can get for an estimate at this time.

So according to the website 1.2528BTC + whatever shipping ends up?

Pretty much. I was going to pay the shipping costs, then pass the cost down to everyone including myself.

Just don't forget to message Technomage about the group buy at checkout.

Could you enlighten me why that might happen? As far as I know, you don't get charged VAT on Silver within EU borders. That would destroy the whole purpose of the EU itself.

The pure silver value itself doesn't have VAT, that's true, and technically we could separate the silver value in our products as VAT free and only have it on the non-silver value of our coin product, to save on VAT costs. Currently we don't do that and thus the physical part of our coin does include VAT for EU sales.

Basically everything except silver and bitcoin value and some other exceptions have VAT and especially when sold to someone in the EU. If we sell to outside of the EU, then it doesn't have VAT on anything. Silver is a big exception just like bitcoins. But for example any gold sale between EU countries will have VAT.

But with my post I was referring to the shipping / courier cost itself, not the products in the package. The shipping cost can have VAT regardless of the products inside.

So pretty much if we ship to mitchell we get VAT (24%)?
If you don't count the silver to VAT you still get taxed for the Bitcoin value?

But if you ship directly to me we don't get VAT?

Man VAT really isn't nice.

VAT would be 21% over here, by the way, and I have no idea how the fuck that shit works anymore. Thought I understood it, but apparently I don't.

If you guys can find a cheaper way to get your coins, go for it! I don't mind.

VAT lolplz...


https://i.imgur.com/eGYfld3.jpg

I have to double check if we have VAT on outside EU shipping. I'll get back to you guys on that tomorrow. But there is VAT on the shipping inside EU for sure. And the percentage is 24%, it is the Finnish VAT. It doesn't matter what VAT rate the destination country has. It is much simpler that way by the way.

For sales of digital goods there is a new law which says VAT must be paid based on the destination country. That is a complicated mess which has ruined many businesses. Doesn't affect bitcoins though as they are VAT free.

I'd just like to add that for us to safely ship that amount of coins with that amount of value, shipping to Mitchell's country has some of the better courier options. If we ship the package somewhere else the overall price of the shipping will be much higher.

So my view on this is that VAT or no VAT, it will be cheapest for you to ship through Mitchell, as the courier option we have for Mitchell's country is otherwise a pretty good value option. And our courier options vary quite a bit country to country even inside EU and of course outside. One of the reasons is that silver is a prohibited product generally speaking and can't even be insured at all when shipped to certain countries (depends again on which courier but then there can be massive price differences).

So I'd recommend not changing the middle man as it's likely the overall price will be more, not less.

Alright got mine ordered and paid for!

Hm, so if there is no VAT going to the US, wouldn't it make sense to do a US group buy and an EU group buy separately? This seems like it would benefit the US participants in this group buy, myself included, if shipped straight to the US, while not changing much regarding the EU participants (who will get hit with VAT no matter what).

I know the shipping is more expensive to the US, but a 24% VAT if shipped to the EU would tack on about 24 EUR to each coin. For one coin they wanted nearly 50 EUR just for shipping to the US, IIRC, but if 10 or 15 coins were shipped, they'd be sending it all in one package, and I wouldn't imagine it would cost more than 80 EUR (I don't know this, we'd have to find that out). If that's the case, then 10 coins (as an example) shipped to the US would be around 8 EUR each, plus the domestic shipping from the "trusted 3rd party."

If they were to ship to an EU middle-man, every US buyer would get hit with 24 EUR VAT plus international shipping.

If this is accurate, I would agree.  I have no interest in paying VAT if I don't have to in the US.  I didn't order loaded coins either which require a EU 3rd party.

That is not accurate. I don't understand why there is so much confusion but I'm going to take a shot at explaining this one more time.

There is no VAT on the value of the coins themselves in any scenario whatsoever. However keep in mind that this is only in the case of the auction / group buy, normally VAT would affect things differently. In this case any VAT related to the coins we have already included in the sales prices of the auction (which means that we take any hit from the VAT in relation to the coin sales prices).

I have now confirmed there will be VAT on any EU ***SHIPPING COSTS*** and no VAT on any outside EU ***SHIPPING COSTS***.

The effect of the VAT on ***SHIPPING COSTS*** will be insignificant. We are talking 0,5 € per shipping participant *at most*. And if you reroute through somewhere else, it will very likely cost more overall because we have a good courier option to Mitchell's country.

Hopefully this is now clear.

For shipping costs overall there are other things that matter more than the VAT issue, in terms of overall price. Our courier options vary country to country and the effect of VAT simply isn't enough to overrule those differences.

Don't confuse the value of the coins themselves with shipping costs. Those two things are not related at all (well, except that for security reasons we need to pay for more robust shipping method if the value is high).

But essentially the value of the coins can be 1 billion for example, and I've confirmed there is no VAT issue there. The shipping might be 30 EUR or something like that, and it may have VAT (so 24% on top of the 30 EUR shipping cost). The effect on a single group shipping participant is small. On the other hand shipping to outside Europe might cost us 100 EUR or something like that which would likely increase the overall price to higher levels.

Thanks for the explanation Technomage.

Edit: To confirm, everyone who ordered coins after the auction from the main website should expect to pay EU sales tax if items are shipped to an EU address. Please correct me if I am wrong. If this is correct, I may place an order directly for E series brass and silver coins instead and have them shipped directly to the USA to avoid additional costs.
If someone orders several L series non-silver coins, will they have to pay the same shipping cost per coin as the 1oz silver even though they weight about 1/4 oz.?

I appreciate the time and effort that ezeminer and Mitchełł have put into organizing this groupbuy. Because of the sales tax requirements for brass coins sold within the EU, I went ahead and placed an order of E series (silver and brass) coins to be shipped directly to the USA.

Okay, so it sounds like the VAT is on the shipping costs only, not the coin value? If that's the case, then definitely sounds like a better deal to stick with the plan of shipping to Mitchell.

Yes, indeed.

Aaah, I was thinking about border related charges. Import costs and all that. This explains a lot, hahaha.

That clears up so much, Thank you.

Haven't updated in a while, but I am still awaiting a price for shipping, and a list of everyone's exact orders.

So far I have had a response back from Henry saying the package is 60 € to ship to Mitchell. I have asked about the package size and final list of people, and will update when I have more information.

So I have an updated list of buyers that will be on the order. If you want to know what is in your order you can message me.

Buyers:
bithalo

blazed

bookofnick

digicoinuser

Lincoln6Echo

ezeminer

bigbeninlondon

minerjones

montreal

@ezeminer: Did you get an update from Denarium? They mentioned to begin to ship today...

Nothing yet. I sent them a message, will probably hear from them in a day or two.

Update: Denrium has told me shipping will begin Friday.

They say the first coin (A1) went out Monday March 14th.
I will not be available over the weekend for any updates, so we'll see what happens next week. Just trying to give some sort of update since it has been dead for a little bit.

Group shipping wasn't one of the first packages to ship due to the complexity of the order and the variety of different products included. As far as I know it has been shipped today.

Could you provide me with the track & trace (if there is one)?

Yes, I will send it to you soon.

Sweet. Thanks!

I have some good news! The package will be delivered to a UPS Access Point today and that means I can pick it up either today or tomorrow! ;D

Alright.... I've got a bunch of packages and I'm not sure if all of them should have been shipped to me.

United States:
- Bithalo
- bigbeninlondon
- Somebody's personal address, no username
- minerjones
- Somebody's personal address, no username

Canada:
- Montreal

United Arab Emirates
- Some LLC company, but I don't believe it's the UAE as it clearly has a US address, no username once again

European Union:
- ezeminer
- Lincoln6Echo
- Bit Envy

ezeminer, should I just ship everything from the United States and Canada to you? If so, tell me and I'll calculate shipping and give you a quote.

Everyone from the EU, please contact me so that I can ship these out to you. I'll give you a quote with and without Track&Trace + insurance + delivery confirmation.

EDIT: No pictures as everything is wrapped in nice boxes. I'll most likely just straight up ship them to people in the EU.

I'd be one of the US ones in that group I believe.

Well, message me something that I can use to identify you with or join IRC and tell me there. ;D

If there is confusion we can also help identify packages. Just PM me about that if necessary.

PM sent! ;D

mitchell I am actually located in the US :)

I have to send out some messages tomorrow, and try to contact people. I will send over my information so you can forward the package. But if we have someone in UAE I feel it would be counterintuitive to ship to the US to ship back to the Middle East.

I also need to try and get in contact with people that only had a personal address, somehow. I should be able to give a full reply within two days as I am still out of town, but should be back tomorrow night.

Sounds good, Mitchell has confirmed my coins are one of the "no username" packages. 

What about my coins? I though all of the USA buyers were getting them shipped to ezminer?

Well. I have three packages without a username and one of them is digicoinuser's. Please send me something that I can use to see if I have yours. Preferably something address related as all the coins were already packaged by Denarium.

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ezeminer, the UAE package has a US address, so I'm pretty certain that it needs to go to the US. I've asked Denarium to find out from who it is. And apparently BitEveny is also in the US, even though his package address states that it should go to France. This is all very confusing and I don't like it, at all.

I will try to explain this. Some orders (non-auction) were made through our website and the address in the package is the one the customer put in the website order. I mentioned to everyone who ordered through the website that they don't have to give us their address if they don't want to - as we don't really care about that if it is group shipping. But they have to put something into the fields and it can be completely bogus. To avoid confusion we should have had a fixed bogus address so that it is easy to identify what is bogus and what is not - sorry about that. We'll learn from this mistake.

I'm going to clarify all the confusing cases through PM today.

Alright, Technomage has just cleared all the confusion and I now know where to send everything. Hereby the updated list:

United States:
- Bithalo
- bigbeninlondon
- bookofnick
- minerjones
- digicoinuser
- Blazed
- Montreal
- BitEnvy

European Union:
- Lincoln6Echo Shipped

This should be everyone, correct? If so, I'll wait for ezeminer's address and I'll calculate shipping once I get home from work. ;D

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Digicoinuser asked me to check his order (which I did) and the new 1BTC coin looks amazing!

Excellent news then! I will be getting mine graded when it arrives to see how they do. If anyone else wants theirs also graded let me know...I can grade them and reship. Better yet, ezminer why not offer to just grade all of them?

I'd be down for getting them graded.   ;)

You forgot me.  ;)

Sorry bitenvy! I was 100% sure I added you to the US list, but apparently I didn't. The new and correct list:

I would be good to grade. Depending on how many people want their coins graded. I might be able to cover everyone, but then ask for the shipping and grading fees before I ship.

I would also pay to have mine graded

Hey Mitchell, you have me down for two 1 BTC coins to my US shipping address, is that right?

Also, I'm ambivalent about the grading, but if everyone else is doing it, you can count me in. I don't mind the delay, in any case.

I have no idea. All I know is that I have a package with your name on it. I can check if you want me to.

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I would not want my custom Brass and Silver graded. 

Alright I believe I have caught up with everything that has happened in the last week. Added a list for people that want to grade, and everyone in shipment. I have updated the costs and price list. I believe it would be fair to just split the shipping between people, without over-complicating matters.

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(Price Breakdown for Everyone)

60 Euros for Denarium to Mitchell (0.15BTC)
Estimated at 26 Euros to ship to the US (0.07BTC)

0.22BTC / 9 people = 0.0244 per person

$6 for flat rate box shipping (0.015 per person)


So overall each person is getting coins shipped to them for approximately 0.04BTC or just under $17.

Everything outlined sounds good to me.

I do not want my coins graded.  Thanks.

Sounds like a pretty good deal! I'm sure people are happy that their coins went through another person (plus being able to having loaded coins is nice of course) ;D

That's okay, I'll trust Technomage got everything right.

I might want mine graded.  What grading service do you plan to use?  I don't think PCGS or NGC grades stuff they don't officially recognize.  As far as I know ANACS is the best service that will grade custom coins.  Can anyone confirm?

ANACS is the only one to use for physical crypto pieces. ANACS will typically give discounts to orders with 30+ coins also.

I will throw in some of my own coins as well probably. So at least 10 to 20 I think.

And yes ANACs, they actually have a spot for "Physical Cryptocurrency"

Updated
5 - Yes
1 - Maybe
3 - No

Well, probably best to just ship and let everyone grade their own then.

The package containing all the US coins has been shipped to ezeminer. This concludes my participation in this group buy. ;D

Grading service was what, $17?  For that I'll go ahead and get the grading service done.

Can we still get in on the US order?

Under 30 coins and grading costs $19 per + return shipping ($21).

No. The order has already been made and the package is on its way to ezeminer.

The grading service is $19, I threw a number of $20 just to account for shipping to and from ANACS. I will try and message everyone individually before I split it into two parts. One to ANACS and the others to customers that will be receiving coins.

It only took an hour, but I think everyone that will be receiving coins has a message in their mailbox.

You should be good now.

I will be picking up the package tomorrow. Came faster than I expected which is great.

Glad to hear that ezeminer! ;D

Well good news is everyone's coins made it.
Bad news, I was the only one who had a package broken into by customs. But good news is everyone else's coins were intact and did not look to be tampered with. I will ship out the people whom had declined to grade their coins on Monday.

https://i.imgur.com/VUAdc0K.jpg

Small scratch on the front side. But it isn't very noticeable...

Good news, 4 packages went out today.

Also ANACS allows drop offs and pickups for coins, so this'll be great for people wanting to get coins graded.

I got my coins today, thanks ezminer (and mitchell)!

Any reason why mine were taken out of the box that they were sent in from Denarium? Mitchell posted a pic of all the sealed boxes. Mine were not sealed in that original box. Looks like the contents were taken out and put into a USPS priority shipping box.

The box they shipped in was larger than the USPS box. I tried, but it would not have worked. If you want me to get a picture I could.
I just transferred the contents from box to box, they had room in the first box. Also to allow padding to be added. Denarium had no padding, but the items were sorta snug when I opened the box.

Edit: I opened each of the denarium boxes one at a time. Just to not confuse the orders with each other. Each box contained coins and an order invoice. I added the denarium piece of paper telling what they are and what they do just because 9 were supplied to me. Each box matched each person by name or address. Also because my coin was originally opened by who I assume was US customs, I had opened each of the Denarium boxes to ensure that no one else had this problem, as the picture from an earlier post.

Received my coins.  Thank you everyone!

Correct me if I'm wrong - don't you just need a priority label to ship priority? It doesn't have to be in a priority box, IIRC. So they could have been shipped in a different box and not opened.

Also, if customs opened your box, you'd obviously be able to see that. The tape would be broken. If the remainder of the boxes were still sealed, wouldn't it make sense to assume that customs did not open them? Tampering with the boxes (breaking the tape) to see if they were tampered with doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Is anyone else bothered by this? No offense to you personally, ezminer, but this is a very security sensitive item. Isn't it important to ensure that the packages arrive at the destination unaltered from how they left Denarium? For all I know, these coins could have been removed from their packaging, or the activation cards switched, or the coins themselves switched. The coins are able to be easily removed from the white card they're on and replaced without evidence of tampering. You or someone else could have physically handled my coin and put it back.

Please help me understand.

I just did a quick lookup about that. It says you can use a non flat rate box with a flat rate sticker. But these boxes here would not have ensured your coins made it there safely. They are like 1/16 inch or something for the cardboard, the only padding you would have received on your coins is the white waxy paper thing, and the bublewrap on the bonus coins. I only provided padding just because you all may have spent a lot of money on these coins depending on what you paid for it.

I cannot be a 100% sure on the US customs idea. First I thought that because all the boxes were taped the same, except mine.

I made a mistake with flat rate boxes because they went from 5.95 to 6.80 since I last shipped flat rate, but kept it at the 5.95 just to not keep changing things around.

I personally have nothing to gain by altering or changing the activation cards or coins. (If you are thinking from a criminal's perspective, you would do something you could get away without people noticing. That would be the smart way correct?) If your activation cards don't work then maybe that can raise some concern, I would recommend contacting denarium at that point. I just wanted to be a helpful forum member in this group buy since minerjones told me he was busy during the time when coins were being auctioned.

It should be easy to verify everything once the coins have arrived to their end destinations. If there is any doubt about the authenticity of the product. Our system is built in a way that these things can always be verified.

I just thought of it, but what about our free brass coins? I assume you were not grading those since they are not loaded?

If you want to pay for them to be graded sure. I was just going to send in the silvers, unless people specifically wanted to get their brass graded too.
I will try and get everyone high resolution pictures of their coins by the end of the week. All coins have been resting in their boxes and untouched by myself. I feel like my whole customs problem wasn't actually customs. Someone noted that their coin capsule felt a little loose and it might have come off while shipping.

Nope, not wanting it graded...just was not sure what the plan was. I am guessing the silver coins will grade very poorly from the pictures I have seen. I have never heard of hand polishing a coin directly from the mint. The high res pictures I have seen show lots of swirl marks on them... :-[

Eh why not, I'll still take the grading gamble.    8)

I will take a look at it in person and then decide if I want to submit or not. If I feel it will grade low then grading is a waste of time and $$.

Fortunately I don't have a lot of graded coins or else I would consider not grading them based on the news I have read.

Personally I think we'll get ms-60s. I think that's the baseline for polished coins?

I believe so, or else they could mark the coins with the dreaded "Improperly Cleaned".   ;D

Went and grabbed my coin today... The coin has swirl marks all over it and a big ding in the bulls head. This is hands down the worst quality coin I have ever purchased. The free coin is pretty rough also...not bothered to open its capsule.

https://i.imgur.com/5X3rPVK.jpg

I had also sent everyone in the group buy images of my coin for a reference.

Album here: https://imgur.com/a/xhJuv (https://imgur.com/a/xhJuv)

https://i.imgur.com/BIPjvRd.jpg

Auctioning off my coin if anyone is interested...starting bid for both coins is 1BTC.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1444857.new#new

All people that wanted their coins graded, I have an update.

Coins were dropped off at ANACs today. They have a pretty cool and small building. The man I met with showed one of the coins to a grader (I was told there are 5 graders) to show them off.

The coins are cool, but he said most likely our Denariums are going to grade at the MS-60, because of the cleaning done to the coin.

I was also told that if we are lucky, turnaround time would be 2 weeks. Worst case would be 4 weeks.

Andrew over there at ANACS is a really cool guy to work with. I should send him over a paper wallet loaded with some BTC and say "figure it out". I was told they might be open to accepting Bitcoin as payment some day...

As I left I felt stupid for never asking his name. Thanks Blazed.

So the coins came back today. Surprisingly not MS-60s, all are MS-63's.

Coins to remaining customers will ship by Monday.

https://i.imgur.com/WQSZtUe.jpg

Very nice, thanks for the update!