Bitcoin Forum

hi,

I'm aleix, from the Dash community. As some of you may know, we have a very hard trolling campaign in our main thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0

I can understand people hate us and troll us. The alt section is very competitive and some people think that trying to destroy the competition is the way to do things in life. This is not the problem.

The problem I want to aware the global mods is about professional trolls. Like this guy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=489877
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=489877;sa=showPosts

223 posts all related (even the name is) with the Dash currency. Active since  23 March 2015. Please check.

My question is; this is ok on Bitcointalk? accounts and people dedicated exclusively to try to destroy projects.

The profile I provided is only an example.  

My suspicious is some people (maybe only one with multiple accounts) are working 24/7 and are paid to do a job.  You don't waste you time like this guy (and other profiles I can provide) just to troll for fun or because you belive what is wrong or right.

I would ask to check the ips of the common trolls in the Dash thread, just to validate what I think is a coordinated effort to troll us and make our thread unreadable.

I can give more information if requested.

tnks,

(excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language)
 

AFAIK I don't think there are any rules aginst trolls in here. Even to that person that you called professional troll. It's just be to make the ignore button work and do it's job for you.. Peoples opinion in here is not moderated so I think that is the reason why people such as that exist.

Although, I am not talking here about the normal trolling which is inevitable and sometimes even good. This is a coordinated effort to destroy Dash.

Just report his posts. It is possible that moderators don't see his posts, so report them to get their attention. That should help to remove the troll posts.

The threshold for a post to get removed for trolling and for someone to get banned for trolling is very high due to free speech concerns.

I cannot speak about the people in your thread, however there are a good number of "professional" trolls on the forum (I just the word professional in quotes because I am unsure if they are actually paid to troll, however they are very good at doing what they do)

...and is certainly dependent on which subforum and moderators are active in that forum.

but that's not the way that it should be, im not saying that you are not in truth, on the contrary, IMHO moderators should act independent of what subforum they are related, i mean this forum have some rules and should be the same for all.



unfortunately, there will be always people like that and from my point of view moderators should not do nothing, obviously only if they are doing it always from the respect, but i understand your frustration.

Thanks guys for the nice responses, but this is not about trolling (which I don't like, but it is inevitable). This is about an account with 223 posts (full member status) and used only to troll one specific topic: one specific thread (the main of Dash (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0)) and threads in the alt-subforum related to Dash.

The name of the account and the historical of posts are visible to check.

This is what I call a professional troll. And I think this is not the only one. I think this account and other similar accounts belong to the same guy, a guy sponsored to do an specific work in here in Bitcointalk.

That's the reason I ask the global mods for a further and deeper investigation.

(excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language)

Which is why I think mods should roam or reports be spread out. Too much room for favouritism without any oversight.

Sadly, because of this kind of professional trolls and other currency supporters  the situation in our thread is out of control.

You just need to check the last 3 pages to understand the conversation has become impossible.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.109700


I think the moderator of the section (@mprep) is doing his best. Unfortunately this is not enough.

lol, stop the whining, report the posts if you think it's trolling. though you're probably gonna have a hard time, since you're trying to defend one of the biggest ongoing scams (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0) in crypto at the moment.

This is really funny.

Some people on this forum think they are the police, they are the judge and the jury. And if they think you are guilty, all kind of tactics to beat you are permitted.

(the instamine matter is answered a lot of times in this forum and others) (https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118)

And always posting with newbie accounts or professional trolls, of course.

Pretty sure there are professional trolls on this forum buddy, paid trolls who are required to troll in certain ways by a whale/master to try & manipulate the masses to follow a trend to effect the price.

Just report what you deem to be trolling & hope the mods do their job, I think that's all you can do. If it's ridiculously obsessive trolling they'll most likely get banned.

Sadly, there are people from 3rd world countries who will work all day for just few usd.

Professional trolls LOL


Don't exist!


~BCX~

@ ~BCX~

Stop being lazy & really look at the evidence. Reality is sad, accept it man.

In fact, there's a group called buttcoin and they even have a foundation behind what they're doing. I think their most recent partnership was with Citigroup, the bank that was poised to destroy bitcoin by releasing their own alternative. Buttcoin people have been around ever since bitcoin started becoming popular, I think the beginnings were in 2011 from something awful forums, but they became big and some started getting hired by big companies to troll against bitcoin and other currencies, some even got hired to work part time. From mid 2013 they started centralizing operations to make them more successful, for a while the head of opperetions was /r/secretbuttcoin (https://www.reddit.com/r/secretbuttcoin). Maybe it still is but I've lost track.

So called professional trolls roam the forum. You can't avoid them. You ban one account and ten of them return. The gambling and dice site situation is similar. It's a cut throat sector and people don't play fair. I am sorry this happens to you, mods can't do much here.

Other mods can and do moderate the Altcoin section.

I think you may have a point here by the sounds of it (i did not read that guys post history)
Dash to Ash ? that is funny though LOL

Sounds like he didn't just leave some gripes but has harped endlessly.. that would prob be considered Trolling i think.
For example i get accused of that a lot but i would never camp on a coins ANN topic nagging them to death.
I just try and say my peace and move on..

What i would suggest is warning the guy + mention this topic (avoid PM's maybe ?)
warn him nicely too..tell him look i get it.. but your laying it on a bit thick.
If that doesn't work then maybe hit the report button and cite "trolling" as the reason why..
Trolling is against the rules here so he would probably get a ban.

Consider how many topics are on the Altcoin main section about Dash though too..
Seems to me there is a LOT of bumping to page one of numerous topics on the coin
so i think in *part your provoking this reaction (or the other bag holders are etc)

People don't want to scroll down the list of topics and see the word Dash over and over like crazy. (or any other coin)

edit:
I also seen a guy here post a topic offering Pro Trolling services for a fee.. he was banned + topic deleted LOL

What has made conversation on your thread impossible is largely that people from your community (including I think you but I'm not sure) respond to on-topic criticism of Dash not with on-topic support of Dash, but by discussing personalities (including purported doxing), criticizing other coins, conspiracy theories of "paid trolls", etc. all of which is off-topic and explicitly against the forum rules to be discussed there.

That isn't even a judgement call -- off topic posts on a thread are not allowed -- while your claim of "professional" trolls is made with no evidence whatsoever, and somehow the culture of the Dash thread has come to define negative posts, even if entirely substantive and on-topic as to Dash, as "trolling". That is incorrect and you can't expect the moderators to take a position on one side of the debate over the merits of any particular coin.

Moderators can, and do (because I see many of the posts get deleted) go through page after page of the Dash thread and see that in many cases the vast majority of the posts do not discuss Dash at all, either positively or negatively. (Most of those are from supporters of Dash, but I don't really expect moderators to keep track of who is a supporter and who is not.) That is clearly out of line.

tldr police your own.

EDIT: I don't disagree that some individual posts may veer into trolling and those can be legitimately reported as Spoetnik said. That's true for virtually every single thread on this forum. If you think there isn't a lot of trolling everywhere on this forum you need to look around a bit. But many of that poster's posts are just on-topic criticism and it is inappropriate for any coin to expect forum mods censor that (even if it weren't accurate, since accuracy,  opinions, and accusations of scamming are explicitly NOT moderated). Example:

@smooth

I want to ask just one question Smooth; do you think the behaviour of the guy who is controlling "the Dasher" is ok? It is correct to have an account only to FUD and TROLL a project?

And yes, what "the Dasher", "AdamWhite", "Icebreaker", etc (not you) is the worse kind of trolling I ever saw in a forum. And I am 39 years old, I began with an Spectrum 48k. So imagine. 

This is not a legitimate concern or discussion. These people repeat the same topic (accusation, joke, etc) 5-6 times in our thread the same day for months. The same topic! Without discussion. Just to troll. 

It is no necessary to belive what I say, anyone can check:

"Icebreaker" latest posts:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17501;sa=showPosts

"AdamWhite" latest posts:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=216500;sa=showPosts

Here in the META subforum I asked the people and mods to check "The Dasher", because 229 posts all related (even the name is) with the Dash currency is really a not very common experience. All the posts trolling or fudding the main thread or threads about DASH in the alt section. This is a perfect example of the behaviour I want to denunce.

"The Dasher" latest posts:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=489877;sa=showPosts

The problem is not the topic, it is ok to disagree and say it loud. I think this is good. The problem is to repeat the same 5,6 times a day for months.

And yes this is trolling. And I want to know who is the owner of "the Dasher" account, because I think this guy deserves a permament BAN from Bitcointalk.

(surpringsly, after my accusations in the META section these people are very quiet. The history button and the "latest posts" is still available)


I presented some facts, let's other Bitcoiners and mods decide what's ok or not.

You should also consider that there might be personal conflicts of interest involved. IMO this is more common than being paid (directly or indirectly) to troll here.

First of all there is certainly no FUD when the posts are clearly factual as the one I quoted was.

I'm not saying I like their style and you know that while I'm also critical of Dash at times, I don't express it in the same manner, but I also don't believe that critical posts are inherently trolling. To allow that argument means that any coin can shut down legitimate criticism by reporting it as trolling, and the rules already state that scams and accusations of scamming are explicitly not moderated.

Some of the particular posts may be. If you can pick out particular posts that go beyond criticism to to trolling then point them out. I pointed out one post from the top of that poster's history that was clearly factual, critical and not trolling in my opinion, but you may disagree of course.

As far as a the number of posts, I think you have to consider the popularity and overall level of discussion of the coin generally. A high profile coin with 5000 pages of activity may get a lot more criticism, legitimately, than a smaller one. But bombing the thread and useless frequent bumps is not okay either. If there is stuff too-frequently being posted without new on-topic content then that is a valid complaint. Point it out, specifically.


Maybe there was a ban? I know other people (Spoetnik?) have gotten temporary bans for trolling.


Likewise.

EDIT: Again, here are a few more posts all from the very first page of TheDasher's history. I don't see how these different in any significant way from the price speculation, discussion, and opinion (which is explicitly not moderated) that is common on that thread by supporters (the lead developer even posted technical analysis price charts and a bullish trading outlook a while ago):




Here are a few posts that express an opinion. They appear to be original comments, not repetitive posts:



On the other hand there are some posts that may well be trolling. This one I don't understand the image (not quoting the big image here):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12819872#msg12819872

These I'm not sure about. They are opinion, but clearly hostile and perhaps intended to evoke a negative emotional response:

You think the behaviour of "the Dasher" and others is ok, and I think is not. As I said, It is no necessary to debate any longer. This is an open forum and anyone can check the thread and the profiles to decide.

I can quote dozens of trolling posts, some in only one day published by "The Dasher", "Adam" or "Icebreaker". You are a long time reader of the thread and you know this is true.

BTW.- As you mentioned several times about the supposedly DASH "scam". Let me post some links to clarify some facts for the newcomers (we talked one milion times about it in the past, and will be talking about it in the future, don't worry)

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118
https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162


Sadly, this is true.  Some people I mentioned are very well known supporters of other coins, coins which are in direct competition of DASH.

Please don't misquote. I didn't say that every single thing about his behavior is okay. I just suggested you should be more specific in terms reporting of actual posts. Rather than claiming "he's a professional troll" (paraphrasing perhaps) which you can't prove (in these sense of professional = paid) and probably isn't true.


Dozens may be overkill but you should cite specifics if you have them. As I demonstrated with quite a few posts all from the very first page of his history list (I didn't look any further than that), many of his posts are opinions and on-topic discussion and are not trolling. I also cited some posts that seem questionable to me.


That is entirely off topic for Meta. Please refrain. The truth or untruth of posts (including scamming and accusations of scamming) is explicitly not moderated.


Also off topic for Meta unless you can cite specific violations of forum rules. Competition and criticism between coins and otherwise is not moderated.

1.- As I said, 229 posts attacking the same thread and the same topic. Not a single post outside it. Repeating the same over and over.

You know and I know. And the posts history is available:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=489877;sa=showPosts

This behaviour is ok or not? This guy should be banned after 229 posts? Let people read.

3.- You posted several quotes talking about a supposedly "scam". I did not. You are bringing the debate to the meta section. Not me. I talk about trolls.


This is about the accuracy and good or bad name of a project. A lot of work from a lot of people. This is the meta section and some people will read this debate.   

4.- I was answering a point someone said. Can I?

best, 

We both well know that not all -- as in 100% -- of his 229 posts are not out of line. I posted specific posts that are clearly not out of line. For example, expressing an opinion on predicted price action. If that is out of line then the lead developer of the coin doing the same thing is also out of line (in fact neither is).

It is important if you have a valid point to support that point with specific evidence.


I quoted specific examples of the account in question having expressed substantive opinions the coin rather than merely nonsense, inflammatory personal attacks, or other actual trolling. That is relevant to your claim that his posts are trolling. The truth or accuracy of his opinions is irrelevant.

That directly refutes your suggestion that all 229 of his posts are trolling. The posts I cited were on different subtopics as well, including price action and the coin having been instamined, so they don't appear to be the exact same content being repeatedly post on a thread in a disruptive thread bombing manner. Though if you have examples of the latter you could post them.

I also quoted some posts which may well constitute trolling and could be reported as such. They're not his entire 229 post history though.


Opinions on a coin whether positive or negative, along with the accuracy thereof, are all explicitly not moderated. It doesn't matter whether a lot of people have worked on it or not, nor whether the project has a good or bad name. The moderators don't get involved in that at all.


If you want to claim that the account in question is posting obviously false nonsense (note the emphasis which is mprep's not mine) and that is not constructive opinion, info, or something else substantial that isn't off topic, then you are going to have to quote it specifically and document it as such.

ok, Smooth. I'm really tired of talking with you. You are like a lawyer, always pointing the irrelevant to distract from the obvious.

Staff and members: read the stuff. That's all. Then act accordingly.  This kind of people (TheDasher) is garbage.

This kind of people are the cancer of Bitcointalk. Please do something.

It is a shame this conversation is not in spanish or catalan. It's like fighting with my right hand behind my back.

Even a post that in isolation wouldn't be trolling, can be trolling when taking into account all the other posts the user has been doing, not forgetting the agenda driven screenname. If the post is clearly made just in an attempt to piss off people, it is trolling.

When you try to apply pedantic logic and rules into everything you will easily make mistakes like that.

There is no such forum rule. The rule was quoted above: "obviously false nonsense"

If forum mods don't want to get involved in judging opinions and scams, do you really think they want to try take into account all the other posts from a user and infer agenda and intent to piss off people, which is largely subjective anyway? I guess it is possible but I seriously doubt it.

I didn't say there was.



I didn't say I think that.


What I said is that for example if there is a forum for Real Madrid fans, and a Barcelona fan joins the forum with a nick "RealSux", and posts 100 posts how Real Madrid sucks at football. Then one day there is a game that Real loses, and "RealSux" proceeds making a post "REAL LOST AGAIN". Now in isolation, that post might be true and appear as if it was a legit post, but everyone knows it's just plain trolling, nothing else. Pointing out that one post doesn't refute a fact that all his posts are trolling.

The problem with your argument is that a coin thread is not for "fans" of a team who are there to have fun. It is an open discussion of the the coin, including positives and negatives.

To make a specific example, there someone named "toknormal" on the Dash thread who consistently posts positive comments about Dash, often repetitive in nature on narrow perspectives such as (his take on) "monetary properties" or technical analysis usually showing a positive outlook (and likewise the same repetitive, often inaccurate, negative comments about competing coins). He does this often and posts in a similarly cheerleading manner almost every single day.

toknormal's, consistent, frequent positive posts about Dash on the Dash thread, often focusing on the same set of subtopics are no more or less legitimate than TheDasher's consistent, frequent negative posts about Dash on the Dash thread.

If you want to engage on a public forum, you don't get filter negative opinions just because "fans" might find it unpleasant to read them. Such fans can go elsewhere for a forum focused on feel-good cheerleading.

If someone posts simply to piss off people it is trolling. No need to move the goal posts to cheerleading or evaluating legitimacy of posts just because you can't argue that fact.

I don't think you can prove that most of the posts are simply to piss people off. Even if it does piss people off.

I believe most people can see that pretty easily. There are certain disorders that can prevent that from happening and I feel if I continue this any longer I will catch one of those myself.

You guys have to know how wrong you are when I agree with Smooth.


Hell has officially frozen over.



~BCX~

hm, I usually try to stay out of such nonsense, but since I really don't like double-standards: you do realize that you're trolling right now according to your own standards?

So it appears accounts AdamWhite (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=216500) and TheDasher (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=489877) have been banned as they haven't posted anymore, but he has activated yet another account: DrkLvr_ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=556554)

Circumventing a ban by posting from another account, tsk tsk.

AdamWhite is MIA for >1 week but TheDasher is last active November 12.

AdamWhite and TheDasher are probably not the same person, but AdamWhite and DrkLvr_ clearly are.

Using another account to get around a ban i.e. ban evasion => permaban.

Do you have any proof AdamWhite is DrkLvr_?

If you want a safe space to cheerlead for Dash without criticism, please fork off to DashTalk or some other circlejerk forum.

You would think, but apparently not always.

This is pretty common on this forum. You've just got to accept the fact and move on. We all know who's right and who's wrong.

First, please don't modify the text you quote from me as to appear I have posted something I haven't. Thanks.

Second, perhaps you don't realize that if everyone started doing what AdamWhite is doing this forum would become unreadable for everyone.

I have faith in mods that they are not as short sighted as you are.

 ::)

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/3695268/stop-whining-o.gif

Please stop polluting this thread with childish off-topic pictures. I know when you run out of arguments it's time to throw the tantrums but when you have no actual content to add it's better to be quiet. Go post your zero-content fluff in one of the Monero threads in the altcoin section instead. Thanks.

illospin getting a taste of his own medicine  :(

Please try to keep it on topic. Thanks.

You can go post your autistic-obsessive off-topic bag-defender nonsense in the altcoin threads but this is Meta and adults are talking.

Both came back from MIA last night within 10 minutes from each other. And I was pretty convinced TheDasher wasn't one of Adam's puppets. Still plausible though I suppose.

There are adults here, but you and aleix are not among them. You're a couple of crybabies who are highly invested in a shitcoin scam, and you don't want the truth about your coin being made public. What happened to "All publicity is good publicity" ? That's what you preach on the DASH thread, then you start your little topics in Meta to try and silence the critics. Typical Dashers, saying one thing and doing another.

Regarding the thread topic, I don't think professional trolls exist to the extent you'd like to believe they do. Satoshi put years of work into his brilliant invention, and then released it to the world without any expectations of financial reward because he thought it was the right thing to do. Yet you think individuals who believe in and appreciate Bitcoin and become aware of an organized, large-scale (in the context of most altcoins) shitcoin scam like DASH, won't spend a few hours sharing facts about a Development team that cloned Satoshi's invention and turned it into the fraudulent perversion DASH has become?

Please, crawl back into whatever hole you came from. Some more on-topic material: I'm neither The Dasher nor Adam White, but thanks for speculating.

 

Please tone down the ad-hominem attacks and try to discuss the issue at hand. Thanks.



I'm reading through http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx18t.htm and was wondering what was the traumatic event in your life that caused the split.

Perhaps this will shed some light on the possible cause(s):

You ask me to tone down the ad-hominems then launch an ad-hominem on someone else - typical Dashers, saying one thing and doing another.

Also, you must have missed this part of my on-topic response:


Regarding the thread topic, I don't think professional trolls exist to the extent you'd like to believe they do. Satoshi put years of work into his brilliant invention, and then released it to the world without any expectations of financial reward because he thought it was the right thing to do. Yet you think individuals who believe in and appreciate Bitcoin and become aware of an organized, large-scale (in the context of most altcoins) shitcoin scam like DASH, won't spend a few hours sharing facts about a Development team that cloned Satoshi's invention and turned it into the fraudulent perversion DASH has become?


Poor illodin :(  He can't win an argument so he tries to ban people who criticize Dash coin :(

Was that a Freudian slip caused by repressed memories being surfaced?

https://i.imgur.com/u4mdGS5.png

https://i.imgur.com/q16LCYA.png

That's quite a spin even for you. Poor illospin, he tries so hard  :(


I took the liberty of looking up Dashcoin on coinmarketcap..

https://i.imgur.com/9jaswvt.png


currently 0.00000346 BTC,  did he buy Dashcoin at 25 satoshi?.. this is supposed to be traumatising to you????..

Dashcoin has changed coin supply with 10,000 to 1 reduction (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1020627.msg11049578#msg11049578) since. So given the change in supply, the purchase in current terms was made actually at 25 * 10,000 = 0.0025 BTC.

I can appreciate the effort you're putting into this, but you need to try harder. Thanks.  :D

monero holder not only trolling Dash, they even trolling Bitcoin so their shit-coin can get some more value  ???

"YourMother" also trolling all anon coin except monero

Still not sure what any of this has to do with with me or the thread topic, Professional Trolls. Please stay on topic  

Cross-quoted from another post:

Lauda said:

InvoKing said:

To summarize my position about this issue:

Some people in Bitcointalk think that Dash is a scam, an illegitimate coin that deserves to disappear. Almost all the usual critics are from the Monero currency community. There are some legitimate non-trolling debate (which is good) and people like smooth (dev of Monero) is a reader and post regularly in the Dash thread or in the altcoin section just to express critical opinions about Dash. No problem here.  

The problem is the escalation of some Monero supporters against Dash. People like Icebreaker, The Dasher, Adam (DrkLvr_ now). The problem is they are incapable of discredit the Dash currency enough to make the project fail. Most of the Dash community  don't care what they say, or they disagree in what is a scam or not, "bad" or "good" anonymity, "bad" or "good" crypto. People like me and many others.

Despite all their efforts Dash is doing fine, the devs are working and delivering, price is stable, etc...  And all these people are really angry. Maybe is because they believe the dash currency deserve to dissapear. Maybe is because some people invested a lot of money in the Monero currency, and they think Dash is the obstacle against his success. Or they belive they are vigilantes of crypto. Believe the explanation you want, I have my own opinion.  

That's the reason I started this topic in the meta section, with one very extreme case of troll: "the Dasher". Just to express a real concern.
I think some of the usual trolls are paid people. I think is impossible to have so much hate to post 4,5 per day against something.

With the responses of "Icebreaker" in this theread you can see the kind of people we are dealing with.  



I really like Bitcointalk. I love the international vibe we have here. In just one place you can follow all kind of devs and projects.

And I agree with InvoKing, this infantile war should stop.

Dash is not going to disappear. No matter the hard you can troll or fud. Sorry. If you don't like is ok. Don't buy and criticize it , but always in a reasonable way.

(excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language)