Bitcoin Forum

Looking for merchants and vendors who want to setup a cash deposit network for Bitcoin in India.

A cash deposit network is a company that allows payments by depositing cash for Bitcoin at various locations.  Another option maybe to work through merchants who sell pre-paid card services that may be redeemed through BitInstant.  If you are an existing vendor or merchant interested in the Bitcoin economy, read the following:  

click here: http://unocoin.com/2012/11/07/cash-deposit-network-or-prepaid-card-service-for-bitcoin-in-india/ (http://unocoin.com/2012/11/07/cash-deposit-network-or-prepaid-card-service-for-bitcoin-in-india/)

have you started your network, how big is it , and  how reliable is the vendors you have?

This is a good initiative.

Sunny is a person who can make this kind of initiative work.

very interesting.
However, i cannot bring myself to read a document full of text.
Neither can i understand any text describing government regulations and definitions, etc.
What licenses would be required to set up a "shop" or a "company" to sell bitcoin as a "digital product" for "personal use", and be able to accept cash deposits into a bank account registered with that "shop"/"company".

Is this a legal way of selling bitcoin? Considering the indian government does not have a definition of what bitcoin is, perhaps we can define it ourselves as a "product", falling under the "digital" category, and find a way to fit it into the definition set by the government ( if there is one ).

yes this i what i proposed in the previous post to define it as a product from the traders view point ,  and the customers can decide to use that product as he sees fit.  , in my view this would not  be in conflict to any laws.  and also the bitcoin block chain  contains transaction details. so setuping up shop would not be that much of a problem.

Talk to gold shops?

the question is, does bitcoin fit the description of a "product" as defined by the government, considering its current features and utility.
if it does, i wouldn't mind setting up shop.

I had written an article, after studying the RBI guidelines for pre-paid and FERA.

http://bensonsamuel.com/bitcoin-3/reserve-bank-of-india-regulations-on-bitcoin-in-india/ (http://bensonsamuel.com/bitcoin-3/reserve-bank-of-india-regulations-on-bitcoin-in-india/)

At this point, I was advised by Jon Matonis, not to ask the regulators for permission.

I agree with this point completely.

Bitcoin is unregulated. Buying and selling Bitcoin with cash is your prerogative.

What people do with the Bitcoin is their concern and we are not here to police it.

Exactly! do not give the government a chance to ask questions.
set up shop that sells "digital" goods, specifically, bitcoin.
have a company set up, with a legitimate bank account.
pay taxes on the income. No eyebrows raised, no questions asked, all paper work in order.

I do not see a problem here at all..
Now, who wants to be the first?

It will help criminals of Pakistan to enter Indians economy & become very easy to control money, creates new scammers who do anything to steal Indians money.  
Already Indian government can't able to control the fake 500 Rupees which is in circulation, which was printed by Pakistan & even banks don't know how to remove totally.

Those who selling Bitcoins may get fake notes without them knowing whether its fake or not.

http://www.livemint.com/Home-Page/9NSxNFvWkjsNYOfmkHeCWM/Govt-report-says-4-in-every-1000-notes-are-fake.html
http://www.cidap.gov.in/documents/FAKE%20CURRENCY.pdf
http://www.afternoondc.in/business-investment/the-fake-currency-notes-syndrome/article_65486


@Benson Samuel

If you can able to educate & persuade Anna hazare members, it will create huge hit & big wave in India.
Most of Anna's supporters are well educated, in high positions, has the ability to fight against government & want to eradicate corruption & corporate.
Its a people's party, same as Bitcoin.
It will make unbelievable entry of Bitcoin in India.

Guys if you look at the negative  to much it will only deter things.  for bit coin to be influenced by scams and robbery is  there like any other fiat currency, but for bit coin to be facked and replicated is impossible, bit coin cannot be diluted by other countries of the issuing country it self, so there for the problem of the bit count being susceptible to deflationary forces would be nullified.

I wonder if any one would be open to creating a nationwide network  for different cities and gradually. India is a country which is still not into the e-commerce thing to much , for bitcoin to be able to penetrate the market a physical transaction is required. i am up for discussion on this and have some thing like this created.

Its Bitcoin or bitcoin, NOT "bit coin"
Corruption has deep root in India now.

auto correct.
and corruption has nothing to do with the propagation of bitcoin in India, there is more corruption in relation to fiat currency. at least bitcoin cant be diluted by banks and government as when they feel like it.
 

Yes, ICICI, HDFC, ABC bank, all the banks, just welcome Bitcoin & wont give bribe to Indian politicians, to shout in parliament to pass a law that gives banks to eradicate bitcoin out of India.

a p2p system like this cant be outlawed. you need to have more trust in the power of the internet, the banks will fight against us but eventually they will realise that this is just not going to work and will have to allow bitcoin to exist. because of the decentralized nature of bitcoin it will be difficult to pass any law to stop bitcoin.

Govt. do not need to attack bitcoin.
They just have to threaten those who selling or buying bitcoins.
You think no Indians working In IT or CBI or RAW, not watching about bitcoin in India & its impact?

We not living in US or other countries, where they will ask bribe if they want to do something wrong.
In India we have to give bribe for legal correct things & also have to give more bribe to do illegal things.

I think you forgot about 2 girls got arrested for posting abt bandh in their facebook status.
latest one.
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_bal-thackeray-facebook-post-arrest-of-girls-under-66a-a-terrible-thing-says-former-cji_1775283

I think you are nothing but a scam artist, you just want to deter other people from entering the indian market. looks like you may have made a pretty good earnings and you are shit scared that people might come in and take away your business. you are not a contributor to this project but a embarrassment to this whole community. you should stop and not be a part of this community you are nothing but a, another scamster indian. why are you even in involved in the bitcoin movement, if you have such a stupid views.
I know, I read some of your posts  in the other threads, you have a history of threatening people to send them to jail. you are nothing but a big mouth with a very little willly.
right now no one is talking about the government but talking about a system to be setup. if you have no positive feedback then dont post such ignorant posts you are just being stupid.
and frankly speaking i think you are truly a scam artist.  scared that others will enter you space. next time just keep  you opinions to your self.
 ::) ::) ::)

hmm

wow! you really are a scam artist.  you are running a mining operation in india and you have the balls to tell us that it is illegal and try to turn people away. look at this hypocrite. you are trying to have the people not involved in this because you are already doing this . you son of B. you need to get you stupid head out of you a hole and stop being so greedy. this is a open source project and you doing this is a shame to this community.  you have just proven that stereotype of all Indians being a money hungry greedy people. what a shame you bring to the people and our country.  
you post history shows you have been doing business on your own. that is good for you , but you have no right to come in here and spred such propaganda , stay the hell away. and dont ever do such a thing. you may be a old member but your actions are shamefull and degrading. i know what you are trying to do so dont even try to pull this stunt again.  

Before calling my mother bitch, think about your sisters, mother & grand mothers.

Hey  dishwara cant you see you have just been burnt. and this the best come back you have. you sister and your mother and your grand mother what a lamo. you need to may be have a person teach you how to troll forums better.  you attempt did not work.  any ways you are a scan artist and a fraud.

If you tell me, so far how i scammed & to whom i scammed & also what fraud things i did, it will help me better to avoid in future.

Hey you ! listen . dont you act like you dont know what you were trying to do in this thread, the posts you made was targeted to scare people you did this and you know it  quite well.  so please dont you act so innocent. hiding behind you broken english.  you are smart but not smart enough. you stay away from the Indian community section. and dont post in here your actions are a shame and you are not welcomed to be a part of this discussion. you are an embarrassment to all Indians.

so far, you didn't told what scam & fraud i did.

This is typical ! you are a fraudster because you are trying to scare people from being involved in the bitcoin, you stay away from the indian section and please do you mining and sell you bitcoin any where you like. but dont come in here again. simple. you are a shame to the indian community. now do you understand. stay away.

I am going to bed dont have time for you .

still, you didn't told what scam & fraud i did.
Besides India is my country & you have no right to say me to go away or stay away from India.
This forum is for every one who want to be in bitcoin & you have no right to tell me to stay away from anywhere.

you are pathetic. *face palm*  .

guys, if you wanna abuse each other, please do it via PM. Do not wash your dirty laundry in public.
and now, to get back on track:

Dishwara is right about the way the government officials function. I have personally had to pay "extra" to get some official, legal work done.
This is besides the point though.

If the government cannot control , or track bitcoin distribution, they will outlaw the "exchanges", and one will not be able to buy or sell bitcoins.
If you can't get em, you can't use em.
No one is going to attack bitcoin directly, it is very difficult to do.

another thing that regulators CAN do is make one single statement about bitcoin use in money laundering, etc.
this can have 2 effects -

1. all the corrupt indian politicians figure out that this is an exccellent way of washing their dirty money, and they will try to adopt it.
2. common man gets scared of bitcoin and never touches it.

I personally feel that we should forget about cricket and movie stars, and instead convince a few corrupt politicians ( or regulators ).
Tell them how it can be used, what it can be used for, and they will be convinced.

all i am telling this person is to stop doing what he did , if you look at this guys history he is a active member, and already active mining, and to use politics and the fear so that he can continue to do his monopolistic business as it looks like he is the only one doing this in India at the moment.  his posts was designed to scare not participate in the discussion. and this is a  public forum . if a member no mater how old he is tries to do undermine a system that would be good for every one then he does not deserve to be in this forum.

as far as i am concerned, dishwara has a very realistic view of how indian politicians, regulators and other policy makers function.
The issues that he presents are REAL WORLD problems. We can't be imagining a La-la land where everything is perfect and no one will try and prevent bitcoin from taking root.
Anything that circumvents the system and regulations will raise eyebrows.

we have 2 options:
avoid regulators completely by fitting bitcoin into currently defined categories, or
sell it (the idea, not the bitcoins ) to the regulators in a way that provides advantages to them.

option 1 is better.

on another note : I have personally dealt with dishwara, and i can vouch that he is not a scammer.
Besides, nowehere in his posts do i see him actively discouraging anyone. All he is doing is providing information. At least that's the way i look at it.

Lucifer i would have agreed with him completely, and would have discussed, until i stumbled upon his hidden secret that he  a active member, doing business from india, you now see the hypocracy, and for a active member to write these things, was to target the indian community to stay out of this business. just look at the fake post he made regarding his name being used. he is guilty of trying to sabotage the indian community.

@subvolatil

even if he is trying to discourage people ( which he is not), ther is nothing stopping you, or anyone else from putting him on an ignore list. He has no control over bitcoin or bitcoin businesses ( just like the government doesnt ), so he cannot STOP anyone. It is no secret that he is doing business. I have known it from day one.

Now, from this point onwards, let's please stay on topic and not dirty this thread anymore.
thank you.

Back on topic:

from your other post :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130017.msg1389366#msg1389366


Very true. Completely agree.


These new standards will need to be approved by a regulator. There's the first problem.


That's the second one. No regulator wants to give anyone any freedom. That is the whole point of "regulation"; Control.


This can be done by selling preloaded coin shaped retractable USB drives ( a round coin, with a usb adaptar that can pop out, and can be pushed back in), with a wallet preloaded on to it. a wallet that would not require a complete blockchain, and would allow the user to easily interface with the bitcoins ( send, receive) and the wallet ( change passphrase, generate new addresses, maintain address book, etc ). This should be OS independent and self-contained within the usb drive.
this will still require the person to be able to use and have access to a computer and an internet connection.

this is similar to https://www.casascius.com/.

Internet penetration in india is still quite low. Cell phone penetration is pretty high, and smartphones are becoming cheaper and more common place. Data service are available on phones from the word go, so a "mobile" wallet with an easy to use interface, as described above. Also an easier way of "refilling" the wallet.

Another question that i have is about credit cards.
why can't credit cards be used to purchase bitcoin?
If i were to set up a website that accepts CC payments for bitcoins, would that be a problem? from the regulator's pov, i do not see it as an issue. All credit card transactions can be tracked, and so can the bitcoin transactions. As long as a link is maintained between an order and a btc address, that should suffice, right?
beyond that point it is the "buyer's" responsibility how to break the link ( bitcoin fog anyone? ) between the address and the payment.

Such a "business" could also accept online debit card payments.

I am not aware about the legalities or the issues associated with such a setup. From all my research on bitcoin, i have noticed that no-one accepts credit card payments for bitcoins. I wonder why. something about chargebacks? i am sure this issue can be easily managed.
Maybe it is the credit card companies that need to approve the "product" before they allow payments for it?

hey moving the discussion to :-
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130017.0

Start fresh if it is ok with you .

Already their is apps for android os & iOS & using the QR code.
with smart phones, you just need to scan the QR codes, & pay using the software in smart phone.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin-android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.miracleas.bitcoin_spinner&hl=en
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet&hl=en
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Software#Mobile_apps
https://blockchain.info/wallet/iphone-app
 

Dont need a smartphone to handlie Bitcoin, check Coinapult.

Before making an entire network, is there any evidence that there is enough of a market for bitcoin in India to support one store? I've seen a TED talk where the speaker talks about the benefits bitcoin could have for a goods seller, but do we really think there would be a large amount of bitcoin consumerism there?

There is a market if there is an exchange.

People want Bitcoin, but they are sceptical about buying them when they know that Selling is not as easy.

If we have a trustable method of fixed exchange, I am sure that the people will follow.

Localbitcoins works for now, but not as reliable as it depends on someone willing to buy.

With the introduction of P2P & P2M money in India since last month, we can now try and build a system that is based on these money transfer mechanisms.

Most of the requests to me have been for 1 - 2 BTC at a time, but this is only because people are still unsure about its penetration in India.

@Benson Samuel

If you can able to educate & persuade Anna hazare members, it will create huge hit & big wave in India.
Most of Anna's supporters are well educated, in high positions, has the ability to fight against government & want to eradicate corruption & corporate.
Its a people's party, same as Bitcoin.
It will make unbelievable entry of Bitcoin in India.
Besides we need to stand as group instead of standing single.
Politicians, freedom fighters like anna hazare has that power to make us group.
Sorry for double posting, but i don't want this idea to go unnoticed.

I did read it Dishwara.

Just not sure where to start from. But I will try for sure.

I have been quite comfortable writing about and talking to technologists.

Not sure if I have a say in politics.

Let's not start with politicians. The later we have to deal with them, the better.

Engineers
Colleges
Foreign Language Institutes
Computer Institutes
IT Company Employees (Especially System Network Admins)
Pharmacies
Payment Companies
Metal Bugs
DJ's (Good response from these guys)
Tatoo Artists
Etc..

These are some quick wins that I can think of.

Politicians, Cops, etc may not be within the scope of what I can do, but these are very important for the economy to explode.

For those who had missed this article.. Smile after reading it, but it wont be Bitcoin :(
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/RBI-seeks-alternative-to-/articleshow/17302585.cms

Love the idea of focusing on gold/silver (accustomed to trading, etc) shops and freelancers (performing card not present transactions and international business).

We recently also had some promising discussions with Bitpay to setup here in India. Stay tuned to learn more.

Additionally, we are in the process of launching a bitcoin exchange here in India.  We are exploring open source options such as bitcoin-central.

To stay in the loop, read more at www.IndiaBitcoin.com (http://www.IndiaBitcoin.com) or visit www.IndiaBitco.in (http://www.IndiaBitco.in)

To get involved, email us at info@infonetenergy.com

I think the Unocoin that is launched now actually started working a year ago !!!

Why does this  feel like a  sockpuppet

People get mad when authorities start investigating their transactions. This is a nice example.  ;)