Bitcoin Forum

Haven't been online in few months and I come online today and see all altcoins are dead? Little to no movement in past few months, majority of that is downward movement. Scammers have run out of ideas? people stopped investing?

What is going on?

meanwhile BTC is heading back to $400  :P

I knew it was going to happen, didn't expect it was going to happen this soon. lol

bitcoins will always be #1

Alts are connected to bitcoin but with high Beta

When bitcoin is going down the altcoin market will go down x times more
When bitcoin is going up the altcoin market will go up x times
although it doesnt happens exactly at the same time, usually there is some delay. I believe that because of bitcoin rose up the last couple of weeks you will see the altcoin market recovering again.
But thats ofcourse just my speculation

Most altcoins are dead. Although bitcoin is having a great rally, I don't see much volume for altcoins compared to 1 or 2 years ago. Many people are buying into bitcoins than into other altcoins.

Altcoins aren't dead, never will be. Even if Bitcoin remains top dog.

agree! Altcoins provide supplements for Bitcoin， like anonymous features,  assets trading platforms , smart contracts functions, color coins etc, which Bitcoin aren't able to provide. They stil have a great market in our real life! Now the market is just focusing on Bitcoin! IMO the market wouldn't be always like this. Altcoins are not dead , never will.

Some altcoins has been dead but much more not dead,maybe its time to buy them for cheap now.

Well...here's a reasoning-by-analogy bit that I cling to. ;)

When gold recovers from a bear market, the senior producers recover first. Sometimes they jump up before gold itself gains traction; sometimes not. But it's the seniors that benefit first. The other more under-the-radar gold stocks keep languishing.

As gold continues to go up, eventually enough punters figure that the gold recovery is "real" and begin to scout around for missed opportunities. As with all market movements dependent upon the actions of people, the shift process is so subtle that it's unpredictable. To be honest, the only feasible strategy to play it is to get in early and wait...a long time that seems very long when "every" stock but yours is going up. :-\

At this second stage, the ones that take off are the junior producers. They're ones who are making money, or could be making money if the gold market co-operated, but they typically are pulling gold out of the ground and selling it. Their lack of visibility tends to come from they being too small to rate being included in the major well-watched gold-stock indices.

During these two stages, the exploration companies - the mining sector's answer to vapourware companies - still languish. Exploration companies typically have no revenue and depend upon capital infusions to keep going. Unless an exploration company is extraordinarily lucky [or extraordinarily unlucky, but that's a different story] this new capital has to be new equity. It has to be a new share issue, typically through an off-market procedure called a "private placement." Any cash in the bank is expected to be spent on exploration work.

When the entire exploration subsector is languishing, typically in the later parts of a gold bear market but also in the early stages of a gold bull market, you see something that's really disheartening. An exploration company issues a good, great or huge success from one of their properties - usually, a result from their latest diamond-drilling rock-sample program - that would have made the stock explode upwards in better times. But in languish times, the market yawns. It doesn't frown, it yawns. These are times when an exploration company releases drill results than make a punter like me go "wow!!" - but the stock itself doesn't move. It not only doesn't move in price, it doesn't move in volume. By price-and-volume charts, it looks like the company didn't release any news at all!

Until that same subtle, impossible-to-predict revival process hits the exploration market. Then, its stocks start to boogie too. In fact, this stage of a gold bull tends to produce those spectacular gainers that show up in the advertisements of certain market letters. ;) What makes them explosive at that time is essentially an overlap between a company releasing a spectacular drill result at the time when the exploration-market itself is waking up.

Again, the wake-up process is subtle and dependent upon what goes on in punters' minds: it's therefore unpredictable. Again, the only way to play it is to buy early, wait, hope and endure.

----------

To the extent that this analogy is valid, the big BTC is a combo of gold and the senior gold stocks. The typical altcoin is a lot like those exploration companies.

So if my analogizing is good enough to go on - please note this thinly-disguised disclaimer - the alts are going to look dead for some time: they'll keep languishing while BTC plows upwards. At this point, it's pretty clear that the long, grinding, post-bubble Bitcoin bear is over. Interesting that the XT flap has coincided with the end of the Bitcoin bear market. Either that, or it hobbled the start of the new Bitcoin bull market. [The charts suggest the latter.]

My call: the alts aren't dead, they're frustratingly dormant. And they'll stay that way for some time - a tough time, where the big BTC continues to make them look dead by comparison. Until, that is, enough punters start looking downwards and putting their Bitcoin where there hopes are...

This is something I have to agree with, even though I have been involved in the altcoin community for a long time. No way it will surpass btc, at least not any time soon.

Altcoin are made by some pumper and dumper who are ready to manipulate market for seeking some profit.
But as we can see nowdays , it's quite difficult to make it right since it's getting stricter

There will come a time, even though it might even take until 2020 to happen, when a Cryptonote based coin will supercede Bitcoin in price.  It's likely that will be Monero due to first (fairly launched) first mover effects, but the important part is the Cryptonote protocol itself - not which individual blockchain.  
  
The simple fact of the matter is that private money is more valuable than public money.  
  
Here's a math problem for you: Pretend we were playing Texas Hold'em, and all rules were normal except one: You still get two personal cards, but only one of those is private.  The other is flipped up for everyone at the table to see by default unless you pay an extra ante before the dealing commences on any hand.  If you pay the [extra] amount you get two private cards, like regular Texas Hold'em.  Now, in a game where we all start with 1000 chips, how much is the average value of starting with your second card also private?  What is the appropriate cost of that [extra] amount?  
  
If you come up with a good answer, I'll send you 10 XMR.   ;) :D  
  
The point is: private moves in a game are very valuable.

In percentage terms, most Tier 1 Altcoins like Doge, LTC and a few others didn't do so bad either (like +30-50%).

The last time (2013), Bitcoin rose more extreme in the first few days/weeks and LTC looked like it would die, but then after BTC was around $600 or $700 suddenly LTC and all the other Altcoins started rising like crazy and even Bitcoins price increase paled in comparison (from $1 to 49 or whatever is more impressive than from $85 to 1200).

Screenshot from 2013 related.
https://i.imgur.com/dwCPsgh.png

I think simply people are getting more intelligent.

The scamcoin wave is pretty dead. (Well, people now have MMM that's pretty similar, haha)

But the death of scamcoins is precisely the opportunity for altcoins that really try something different. Coins like NXT, Dash, Ethereum, Peercoin, Bitshares, NEM ...

But it will take some time until they join Bitcoin in the rally.

Same reasoning for 1ex.trade coming into play soon by the WBB dev :)

I'm bagholding everything else as of now :( lol

All the money is now pumping into BTC. Once the rise slows down the whales start itching and start plating with altcoins. You can try and benefit from it if you're willing to risk it, but the only winners are the whales.

Yes, pump and dump is the sad tale of all altcoins and most may never go anywhere long term really.

You guys ruined altcoins with your greed lol

I really trust in Darknote,because it is stable coin a long time ago :)

The OP's view bears no resemblance to reality. Most altcoins have gone up like crazy recently.

The main purpose of the many altcoins out there is hopefully not to get rich within days; that was also not the case when the rally started tough on the early days of bitcoin. You're ideas and invention made bitcoin a success story, finally.

Altcoins should regarded as be a pool of invention for new ideas and concepts which may make our future more pleasant. :)

As the majority of altcoins are open source projects - sharing the ideas with all you other freaks out there can help us to improve things to be better tomorrow than it's the case today. 8)

"Most"?? Which ones ???

Welcome back.. cute watching many of these guys try and bullshit you lol
i am sure you know better ;)

I think it's a problem of a shrinking user base in the scene.
I will leave it up to you guys to debate why here..

And we all know technically they don't actually die ..they just get close to death and linger on forever.
but i got what you meant OP ..close enough ;)

.. sometimes you have to hollow out a Ton Ton and sleep in it's belly eh
it's time now !

edit:

You guys (left in the Altcoin scene) are like a handful of rats scurrying around in a dumpster looking for some scraps.

This guy speaks the truth, listen to him

Altcoins are only dead for as long as the BTC price is rising, when it starts to fall again (after speculators sell their coins) people will start moving back to Alts for a while. It's just the natural progression of things.

As long as people are willing to trade them back and forth, altcoins will always be here to stay.  Maybe not as a currency, but maybe something to play around with for BTC/fiat.

The annual monthly rebound (or when BTC spikes up) never offsets the price drop of Altcoins overall.
The price of alt's may go up and down but they have been dropping more than rising..
So in time they have been losing value if you look at the big picture.
If you can't see this your not looking hard enough or in denial.

People come to this stuff to make money and if almost no one is making money and almost no one is doing it.
Then it's dead.
And this IS what has happened already !

The game is over.. Altcoins "It was a thing"

You guys ruined it and i warned you too (and you all mouthed me off and denied it and called me a troll)
well look around.. it's a ghost town.

..nothing but a handful of bag holder rats scurrying around a dirty Ziplok baggy.
Face facts this crap is bleeding to death and it's on life support.
And that means places like Cryptsy could simply slam it's doors closed with no warning any time
(taking your coins in the process) as i have warned about looong ago countless times.

I'm a troll you guys cry ?
I am right and you don't want to hear it.
And rather than admitting there is a problem (so it can be fixed you guys push on with idiotic schemes)
Adding a Market to NXT or Monero or something is not going to save the day LOL

..catching a falling knife is fine but for fucks sakes guys use the bloody handle ;)

So meaning very careful when deciding to buy and hold a coin for the long term with a significant amount of your hard earned money.  In fact, people here who have been around a long time should discourage newbies from doing so.  This is crypto, not a mutual fund. 

Don't gamble with your kid's college fund.


 

nothing new

altcoins are risky

BTC is risky

BTC $1,200 (2013) --> $180 (2015)
LTC $50 (2013) --> $0.85 (2015)

Cryptsy? many old notable altcoins are listed on several exchanges

decentralized exchanges? time will tell

now numbers

one year returns ($)
 
CSC/BTC  +3868.43%
NYAN/BTC +1330.50%
DGB/BTC +790.09%
EAC/BTC +649.31%
CLOAK/BTC +605.39%
TIPS/LTC +490.36%
FRAC/BTC +453.72%
CASH/BTC +383.46%
MINT/BTC +308.71%

but

XPY/BTC -99.77%
HYP/BTC -97.47%
RZR/BTC -95.40%
UTC/BTC -93.61%
AERO/BTC -91.84%
TEK/BTC -91.59%
SFR/BTC -87.91%
NEC/BTC -85.89%
VIA/BTC -85.36%
FTC/BTC -85.15%


you're right
kids/parents shouldn't gamble with crypto at all, it's risky

Sure, this is true, for now. What will probably happen is people will leave altcoins for a while, it happens in a lot of markets (especially when saturation is this high) but they won't leave for good. Eventually people will come back to Alts for whatever reason. Probably the price of BTC getting too high.

Alts will never really be DEAD, so to speak, they do serve an adequate purpose (experimentation, introductions to the crypto world, etc.) And that will be enough to keep them alive. Whether they hold any monetary value, however, could definitely be argued.

Like I say alts enjoyed big gains recently so the whole premise of this seems strange. Ethereum, litecoin and namecoin all went up a great deal. People are still making money trading them. I made a bit; not a huge amount, around £3k or so. They don't seem any more "dead" then they ever have.

@ilovealtcoins
That is weak..

"whatever reasons" so that is what you are clinging to ?
sounds like a solid investment strategy.. good luck with your portfolio.
probably full of IPO investments that had strong white papers and lofty goals.  ::)

you forget i predicted what would happen and why and i have been vindicated.
i was right and proved it *continually.. but all of a sudden i am wrong ?
based on what ? because you say so ? ..when did you get here and start this ?

"Eventually people will come back"
you say..
Why ?
They already came buddy.. and left !
why do you think they left ?

@gambit1
In order to make $3,000 usd profit on dirt cheap altcoins how much did you have to invest ?
Let's get that out of the way first off ;)

2nd of all there always has and always will be random little pump's of action.
Just because you found an exception to the rule (i never denied in the first place) doesn't make the rule itself invalid.

Both of you came to this topic to defend Altcoins and you posted no real reason to do so.
I heard i "i made money today" and "for what ever reasons, they will come back"

you two guys think you won this argument ? LOL

"In order to make $3,000 usd profit on dirt cheap altcoins how much did you have to invest ?
Let's get that out of the way first off Wink"

Invested 12k GBP, now valued at £15k GBP

"2nd of all there always has and always will be random little pump[s of action."

Maybe random but not little. Litecoin and Ethereum and Namecoin went up about 30-40% or so.

"Both of you came to this topic to defend Altcoins and you posted no real reason to do so."

I just don't see why people are saying altcoins are dead after a big pump into them.

"you two guys think you won this argument ? LOL"

Its not an argument. I have no emotional investment in alts, just a financial one.

Alt's like btc are very risky.
Problem with alts is that there are too many scammers so people run away from them.

Now the BTC price is high, people sell and convert to fiat. Then when the decrease in btc starts, alt's will be very cheap and people will start buying it so the prices stabalizes again.

@gambit1
Did you register at cs.rin.ru with the same name by chance ?

Also i don't think your looking at the big picture..
Those coins you say went up are an indication of the whole scene switching directions ?
Or do you deny the fact that this stuff is dead ?
How can you ?
Do i have to grab an endless stream of stats and my old quotes predicting it then quotes of me saying i told you so ?

You know i don't get it.. it baffles me no matter how bad this stuff gets you guys sit in pure denial.

"Did you register at cs.rin.ru with the same name by chance ?"

Nope

"Also i don't think your looking at the big picture.."

Correct I'm looking at trading.

"Those coins you say went up are an indication of the whole scene switching directions ?"

Not really no. Well yes, in terms of price obviously it is.

"Or do you deny the fact that this stuff is dead ?
How can you ?
Do i have to grab an endless stream of stats and my old quotes predicting it then quotes of me saying i told you so ?"

Depends what you define as "dead". Obviously some people have some interest in them, even if its just to trade or the price wouldn't go up 30%. Ethereum more than doubled.

"You know i don't get it.. it baffles me no matter how bad this stuff gets you guys sit in pure denial."

Denial of what? Trading alts can be profitable. I'm not sure if that means that they can be "dead".

Denial of what?
uhh the topic title ;)

and even though there is random pumps on coins i would urge people to be cautious.
trading is just going to continually get more and more dangerous (because of a few reasons)

i am not saying don't play the game.
i am not saying you can't make money.

i am saying this scene as i predicted years ago now is limping along as close to death as it can get *almost.
i doubt many of these exchanges are making money (many closed doors long ago)

people leave.. exchanges close, this forum has no activity, tons of coins are abandoned.
and no matter what you guys see a bright future LOL

i have warned lots..
When i was a kid i stole my best friends cassette walkman because i knew i was moving.
get it ?

..provably not LOL
it's funny so many of you think your an expert on crypto altcoin stuff yet you can't carry on a conversation LOL

wake up guys.. no one is here (everyone left)
and those of you loitering around here are playing with fire.. good luck with that LOL

EDIT:

MUSst BuY MOAR cOINS NOM NOM NOM
MOON CHICKEN ARISE GET ON TEH TRAIN WOOO WHOOOOOOO
LIEK I MADES SO MUCH BITCOINZ LIEKOMG !!111
CHEAP COINS WOW I AM BUYING MOAAAAR !!!!

Why do you care? Altcoin trading is working out for me so far. The fact that its risky adds to the profit; you need good volatility for good returns.

Anyone can make money from anything its just a case of timing and execution. Even if altcoins were "dead" or "dying" you could make money off that.

All altcoins are crap seeing from the past year alone crap coins have been coming out, just for the sake of it.

Bitcoin will only be the top cryptocurrency no matter what.

Good for making a quick buck nothing more.

"Good for making a quick buck nothing more."

Yeah because who likes money. Overrated I say.

Nah brah, I don't have a portfolio, I just like the idea of Altcoins.

See the thing is, right now, Altcoins are a completely saturated market. Everyone and their grandmother has an altcoin, which is fine, Altcoins are cool, if you want one then all the power to you, I'll even make it for you. The problem with a saturated market, however, is there is too much supply cause by too little demand. When the market slows down, demand goes up. Same thing happened with video games.

I'm just saying that Altcoins do serve a functional purpose, basically like a proof of concept for Bitcoin. I agree that Bitcoin will most likely remain the top dog in terms of coins, which makes sense, it was first to market and provided a major technological and economic break through. That doesn't mean other people can't join in on the fun. If it fails, it fails, some people lose money, sure. But it's the same with any investment, there will ALWAYS be failures.

And I never said I won the argument. You could be right and Altcoins may be dead forever, never to return. But I will always like Altcoins, they interest me. Sorry if you can't understand that.

Altcoins r dead but it dont matter if u ain't brain dead.

~CfA~

Took the words right out of my mouth.

uhhmm yeah sure.. *IF* you weren't cleaned out already.
You have any idea how many coins i have been caught stranded with as they were removed from that last one exchange ?

You guys are full of shit.. big time !

Things are great and your making tons of money ? ... wrooooooooooooooooooooong
Your one of these guys that shows up late to the rush and bought over priced coins and now can't get rid of them
and admitting it will ensure you don't break even.. this place is notorious for liars.

ohh blah blah blah i made $3,000 some guy say's
oh really ?
how much came out of your bank account to do that ?

And if you keep playing the game just like gambling how long do think you will stay *up ?
All the old vet scammers in these scene are faaaaaaaar smarter than you lucky kids.. trust me LOL

@ilovealtcoins
"I'm just saying that Altcoins do serve a functional purpose"

That is irrelevant.

That is like being in court for bank robbery and saying hey but "i am a good guy"
The judge is going to shake his head and laugh and say so damn what.. GUILTY bam down the gavel goes ahahha

You guys want to discuss this (the topic title) then fine let's do it.
I have been around a while.
But does the topic title say "[POLL] Do Altcoins serve a functional purpose ?"
Does it say "[POLL] I like Altcoins ?"
Or how about "[POLL] Have you made money with Altcoins ?"

Look around see what i am reading here or i am i seeing something different ?
It's like i am having my own discussion with myself LOL
..and i am the only one on-topic hahha

That toilet is going to keep swirling down unless you wake the hell up guys.
Gambit said what do you care ?
That is my point.. 99% of you don't care (proof is the Altcoin scene is a raped whore left for dead in an alley)
Don't sit there and tell me ohhh ohhhh well i made $3,000 so Altcoins are doing great 11!111ONE

Altcoins are NOT about making money / turning a profit  ::)

I agree with you. Altcoins aren't about making money (or at least they shouldn't be.) I suppose "dead" is the wrong term in this sense. The price is going down, does that mean they are dead? Probably not. If Bitcoin lost all it's market value over night I'm sure people would still use it.

The fact that the price of Alts is going down is irrelevant to the discussion of altcoins being dead, my comment about them serving a functional purpose was to highlight the fact that they probably never will "die" in the sense that people will always make them and people will always use them. Because they're just as important as bitcoin. The prices are irrelevant, the money is irrelevant.

Now if you wanted to discuss the idea that Alts will never be worth anything I would love to talk about that, because that's a good topic to debate about. But whether they "die" or not isn't one, because they will exist whether they have value or not. Probably not as many, and not nearly as many clones as we have now, but the fact remains that there are indeed some talented programmers who want to improve upon Bitcoins fundamentals, and the only way they can do that is through Alts. So, no, I don't think altcoins are "dead" so to speak, I do think that they are losing value and are probably not sound investment at the moment, but that is irrelevant.

P.S. I know that OP was talking about the recent price drops in alts, but the question was whether Altcoins were dead or not.

Nope, Altcoins will going back when bitcoin's price get stable..

Every single thing you say is just plain wrong..jeezuz christ where do i start *again ? LOL
You and 1 or 2 other guys keep having a run at it and failing miserably.

"I agree with you." ?
No you don't !

"Altcoins aren't about making money (or at least they shouldn't be.)"
They are NOT.
Otherwise they would be called something else like a security or digital ponzi-scheme token.
(go to www.cryptostocks.com for shit like that)

" I suppose "dead" is the wrong term in this sense. The price is going down, does that mean they are dead? Probably not."
Actually yes that is what it means.. Based on a few factors.
If no one is around and using these (in any way) then yes we can consider it dead.

Further more i said already they don't really "Die" .. we all know they just skid close to death for ever.
How often have you seen a coin you would call dead come back to life ? ..for a quick pump & dump ?
This aspect of it is common knowledge and your trying to change the argument (topic title)
To what defines dead.. (there is no debate on that, we all agree / based on what we see AKA: reality)

"If Bitcoin lost all it's market value over night I'm sure people would still use it."
That is possibly the dumbest thing i ever heard in crypto.. no joke i am serious !
A currency that has no value means it has no users to assign it value.
If it has no value it means everyone left LOL

"The fact that the price of Alts is going down is irrelevant to the discussion of altcoins being dead"
Really ? WOW LOL
That -IS- what we use as an indicator of success in the scene.
This is not theoretical, it's what we all commonly believe and accept as fact.
Except you apparently..
If the usd had no value over night such as in 2008 would people still use it and consider it going well ?
How about if an Apple or Microsoft stock dropped to 50 cents each ? still going great eh ?

i'm not even reading the rest of your delusional reply.. you have no clue what your talking about at all.
If i didn't think you were serious i would think your trolling me LOL

You guys left here advocating this crap are clueless and don't know how this stuff even works.
Yet your spouting off trying to deny reality.

Tell me what would you define as a dead altcoin scene ?
I would like to hear a real response to that.. forget what ever else i said and please just answer that 1 single question.
I also want the answer to be a plausible scenario that could actually happen realistically.

An altcoin that is dead is an Altcoin with no Network hashrate. Since no one is mining it, it doesn't exist. See how that works. It happened to my shitcoin "Nucoin" (yes I admit, it was shit, I was new in the scene and I posted Local IPs as seed nodes. I was a moron)

But sure. I see where you're coming from, we do define success as market value here. I will concede that that is true. Altcoins can "die" in the sense that they have no value, but people will still use them to experiment and share ideas, so in that sense they won't "die" so much as fade into the distance, to a low rumble in the roar of Bitcoin-mania.

But I'm sure you'll tell me that I'm wrong and that we're all idiots, so yeah, fun times.  ::)

read the topic title.. i am not talking about 'a' coin
i am talking about them all collective (thought that was obvious)

Tell me what would you define as a dead altcoin scene ?
I would like to hear a real response to that.. forget what ever else i said and please just answer that 1 single question.
I also want the answer to be a plausible scenario that could actually happen realistically.

Well the answer the that question is quite simple. A dead Altcoin scene, as you put it, would be if NO ONE used Altcoins. If everyone were to up and abandon Altcoins in one day, then yes, they would be dead.

Realistically? I suppose very few people using them would also leave them dead.

Finally now we're getting some where LOL

Then i have to wonder what all of you here would define "few people"
at what point do you say.. uhh shit we got a problem !
Like where do you draw the line ?

To me if i look around i see a LOT of bad signs.. how the hell do so many of you see none at all ?

I see bad signs everywhere. I don't like the fact that the price is dropping either. I'm just not convinced that something like this could ever "die." At least not without Bitcoin dying as well.

That's a good point though. I don't really know where I would draw the line, since it's such a subjective thing and I try to be as objective as possible, and even if I were to define it in such a "firm" manner, I don't think it would matter. Altcoins would most likely die without us even noticing, like a frog in a boiling pot of water, it doesn't even know it's dying. And sure, the same could be said for me, maybe I'm just trying to save a dead/dying community. But that's neither here nor there.

"..At least not without Bitcoin dying as well."
I bet that would be the case too.
They are tied together if one goes down then the other follows i think..

That's at least the case with Litecoin.

Honestly the only way I ever see Altcoins completely dying is if there was some fundamental flaw with Bitcoin, causing it to fail catastrophically, thus bringing down all the alts with it. Otherwise there will always be people trying to find alternatives (and make a quick buck), so there will always be some place for alts. Maybe a smaller place, but a place none the less.

*until it becomes number 2.

Altcoins dead? No. You have to be crazy to believe BTC will be the only crypto.

Everyone is talking about alt prices dropping. Can you please explain what you mean and over what time period because alts have recently had a big boom. I can't reconcile what you are saying with reality.

Does that Jumbo jet seem loud going over your head ?

Let me tell you a story..

My Town had the 2nd Bitcoin ATM in the world and the 1st was not far..
http://www.bitcoiniacs.com/atm/
The ATM location / Store front was closed loooooong ago.
Bitcoin went up it got popular and then everybody left.
I will admit the location in my town Kelowna BC, Canada was not an official ATM location
but rather a trading exchange site of sorts (the Vancouver location has a real ATM)
But that doesn't change the point.. The Kelowna location is now a Bicycle Sales / Repair shop.

Then take Altcoins.. there was a time when this stuff here was so popular
You could barely follow a topic because so many were posted soo fast..

A stranger i met told me he heard of Bitcoin thought it was about some online money drugs thing
and thought it was over like two years ago and that it was dead / over.
The stigma it had before the big boom had never left !
The only thing that changed over time was user level adoption..
They came.. and they left !

If your measuring stick of success has anything to do with Bitcoin ? Then your doing it wrong.
Bitcoin is a failure.
And Altcoins are dead.. time to wake up and smell the moldy coffee whoring shill bag holders.

Your a Doge coin short and a day late.  :D

http://coinmarketcap.com/#EUR

If it helps look at the 7 day price graphs. They are the same roughly as bitcoin in a lot of cases. A big pump then a retrenchment. That is true of litecoin, ripple, dodge ect. Ethereum hasn't even had that much of a retrenchment; not as much as bitcoin. Where is this big alt price fall people are referencing? Over what time period?

They are dropping you just have to look past the pump of some coin in the last few days to see it.

Just because a chicken still runs around after you chop it's head off don't mean it's not dead.

I swear to god damn god this place is loaded with brain dead morons.
You guys here are either deceitful and / or delusional.

Should i expect a bunch of baggy's to admit this shit is over ?

not death just waiting BTC rise to stop

Not exactly, but rather greedy, heartless, godless, delusional assholes = sociopaths.

I've spent years literally on Wall Street and thought I knew arrogance and greed...
But I ain't seen NOTHING until I started attending Bitcoin Meetups full of weasels and scammers...
And 22 yo geeks that fluked it with BTC strutting around with a massive "genius" hardons...
Plus this fucking hell hole custom engineered for scams where people think nothing of selling their soul for 0.1 BTC over and over.

That's the real problem with Alts...
Normal people eventually get creeped out by the dog-eat-dog culture... and they move on.

Porn, a male preserve, attracts more female consumers than cryptocurrency...
But your platforms-to-nowhere with 200 male users jabber on about "mainstream".

Ya man, take on Amazon with your complicated penny ante cloud storage schemes.
 
It's hubris that brings down all cults...
So sell your BTC at $400... because the best and the brightest have already moved on.

 
 
Your conclusion is flawed, but I like the way you said it.  Very well spoken. 
 
The altcoins are the quantum foam of lowly scum and scams, for sure.  But out of that foam will emerge the next big cryptocurrency. 

I dont like bitcoin rise,my altcoins price is too low >:(

Exactly..
You guys here are bitches.. like your mom whining at you about your "tone".
I was just here hours ago saying i said the same thing as some other guy
but when i say it i get called a troll but when he say sit you line up for the blow job.

It's all about "feelings" with you guys and trying to be happy (as people are scammed and ripped off etc)
i get told i am yelling all the time or that i am angry.
Funny thing is i have talked the same way since day 1.
So either i am angry every waking moment of my life or people are wrong.
NOTE:
My last three PM's were threats LOL

A fellow Canadian buddy of mine here has incessantly harped on the be nice routine since i started.
Note: He has worked for Cryptsy for a long time. (Mr BeNice LOL)
Why the hell should i be nice ?
Every single day i see you guys attack me and threaten me and rip other people off
and spend all your time coming here to pour on the bullshit to newb's to rape them for a profit.

You guys supporting clone coins don't deserve shit all. (and dev's aren't entitled to IPO / premine funding either)
i have long said when are YOU guys going to show a shred of concern for the victims of crypto ?

The moral is..
Be nice.. don't complain.. pretend things are going great and if you lose your BTC .. go make more.

Altcoins are not dead, there are a lot of them very popular  ;) For example Doge, Dash, Monero  ;D

From what I've looked at, quite a lot of altcoins are severely undervalued by comparison to what those could end up doing.
Amazon are reputedly interested in the fast payment clearing times of some of the altcoins, though obviously they are too corporate to want any sort of proceeds-of-crime-coin getting used to buy stuff on Amazon.  Rumoured plan is to have some company approved wallet in cloud based vm hardware so that only a lightweight client is on the user kindle, and that uses proprietary coded transmission of instructions to the cloud to move some altcoins from user to vendor in exchange for goods and services.  The only reason why they didn't do that last year was that is seemed worth waiting to see what new algo and wallet improvements would get developed. 
There is no reason to limit such trading to only one altcoin, as there is room for personal preference.  The transaction limits will be quite small in the first year; possibly in the right sort of range to download a novel.

Now, who'd have a motive to talk down the price of most altcoins ?

@whizz94
You may have a point.
Etherium was added to Microsoft Azure options or something i seen in the news.

But the vast majority of all these coins all suffer from the same problems.
Which to me seems like the chief reason for the down fall of Altcoin popularity.

Some of these i think are..

- Unfair sketchy initial distribution of coins.
- Block chains that have to be downloaded that take forever.
- Shitty wallets

Let's talk about the ole Windows QT
It's like a complicated heap of BS.
A windows qt wallet is like Windows vs Linux..
Windows is popular because it's easier to use and easier to fix etc
I think the majority of wallets are like a Linux OS to people out there.
They are going to be too complicated and a pain in the ass to deal with for the general public.
I hate to say it has to be dumbed down but it does in a way.

I ran an update for my Max coin wallet the other day and it took forever to start updating the chain.

So let's analyze that..

Will noob's know what a chain is ?
Will they know it might work if they wait and let the wallet run for hours searching ?
Will the high CPU usage of updating concern them ?
Will they know where to go to get a list of nodes to add ?
Will they know nodes can be added in the first place ?
Will they know HOW to add nodes ?
Will they be willing to wait extreme amounts if time to open the wallet to send / receive coins ?
Will they trust the wallet code ?
Will they know where it came from ?
Will they know where to get an update if needed ?
Will they know what to do if it stops working ?
Will they know that wallets are automatically updated like most software ?
Will they be happy seeing Anti-Virus software warnings on their wallet download ?
Will they know how to update their wallet manually ?
Will they be willing to update manually ?

I could go on.. you guys get the idea.

All i ever see is you guys bullshitting about a bright future circle jerking each other.
You spend years rambling on about tech bullshit that no one in the public is going to care about
or even understand if they come here and read it all (see: Monero Speculation topic 550 pages)
What good is a topic that is 550 pages long ? It is clearly for advertising and you nerds..
not the general public.

Long story short you guys have always and always will have your heads jammed up your ass.
Oblivious to reality !
Clueless to what is important and what should be done.. priorities.

EDIT:
We may need a corporate backer like Google / Android as an example.
I have long said this will probably be the outcome.. Big company players will walk in making these obsolete.

I agree with you on all of these. When I was a noob I had no idea what the hell was going on, the chain took forever to download, the addresses were incredibly long and nigh-on-impossible to remember. If it weren't for the fact that I was so fascinated by these kinds of currency at the time I would never have stayed the course, and of course, as altcoins are based on Bitcoin, they suffer the same issues (besides the sketchy IPO's of new coins coming onto the market. Strictly a "new alt" problem.)

I also agree that in order for it to become "mainstream" it will need to be "dumbed down."

You're right that Cryptos are a niche product, at least for the time being they are. There isn't anything wrong with that, but expanding beyond a niche is hard.

The thing is, though, that I have no doubts in my mind that clever people will be able to overcome these problems through clever programming. We are already seeing services that allow you to make your address more "readable" and simpler, easier to understand wallet clients are coming out every other day. The only issue is, is the fact that most people in Alts are only in it for the money, they either trade it for a profit or pump it for a profit. There are some incredibly interesting and innovative Alts out there that make leaps and bounds in the crypto space, but for each of those there are a dozen clones, there's nothing wrong with that per-se, but it can cause a stigma to rise up.

You make some good points, and do point out some flaws in the altcoin space, but I don't think that that is a reason to abandon it wholeheartedly, maybe just don't invest a ton of money into it, that might even save them in the long run.

Problem is we don't matter.. are opinions are 100% worthless.
The only opinions that matter are out there.. all around the world.

The solution is of course to pander to "them" ..not us.

Is this whole "it's all about profit" routine going to continue to repel adoption ?
It already is.

And guy you said we have made some gains moving in the right direction.
Fair enough but has any of that made a quantifiable and tangible real world difference in the overall picture ?
.. i don't think so.

The crypto user base has shrunken and evaporated (as you claim gains were made)

Jesus man, when you aren't screaming at us for defending Alts you make some really good points  :P

You're right when you say that opinions within the niche are virtually worthless when trying to gain mainstream attention. Most people only about bitcoin for one of two reasons:

1. That one "The Good Wife" episode
2. The silk road

Which is s shame, really. Bitcoin is so much more than people buying drugs online. All cryptocurrencies have that stigma as an illegal online drug-dealer currency. Hell, the only reason bitcoin is anywhere near the mainstream is because of its price.

But, is pandering such a problem when it comes to a currency like BTC or any of the alts? I mean sure, it's pretty much more secure then any financial institution around today, but the complexity does outweigh that. If a currency like BTC were to come along that was dead simple, simpler then even online banking, it would probably be gaining traction hand over fist. The issue is that because Bitcoin and a lot of alts are such large technological innovations, complexity is the name of the game. But it's not as if it's without "hope" if Bitcoin can manage to break the stigma of a drug-currency (which stuff like weedcoin doesn't help with) and "dumb" the UI and process down, it will probably see more "mainstream" use. I know it's a lot of speculation,  but I'm not saying it's going to happen soon,  it just needs to happen. We'll most likely see something similar in an Alt first, the problem is that Alts have a worse stigma than Bitcoin.

Sure, we have some large losses (mostly on the exchange rates of Alts) but people who are trying to simplify the process are the people who are going to open up the new "era (so to speak)" of Cryptos. They may not be making a lot of traction right now, but the journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step.

I know i at least have a few good points (thanks)
And i want to see this crypto stuff succeed which is why i am passionate about it (the so called yelling)
If -we- don't do it right and get real world adoption happening and fast i fear a major large company will swoop in.

Look at what Google did with Android..
We're running out of time as open source crypto advocate's.

If the Microsoft's roll out a coin of sorts it would prob be a set back for any potential adoption of an Altcoin.
Like we could still do what we're doing but if the big guys stomp in and snag all the users we're screwed.
And i bet a lot of paid research has been going on for years with all these big companies like Facebook etc.

Take Android for example again..
What if i made my own Spoetnik Droid ?
Average People would still think Samsung = Android at the store when buying a phone
and -my- project wouldn't even be there.

Could i continue on (in obscurity) ?
yeah but what is the point in making a currency that will NEVER be used as one ?

And here I was thinking you were just FUDing xD

But yeah, that's true, Android is basically simply equated the Samsung now. It actually pisses me off a little.

Wasn't Apple going to release a "coin" of sorts called iMoney? or something like that. However they would have a hard time bringing down Bitcoin, but building it into the iPhone, or Windows, or whatever product a big company has that is used by _most_ people, would cause a major disruption in the crypto market, plus it wouldn't have the stigma other Alts have because people would be like "Oh it's made by Apple, they don't deal drugs so it must be better than that Drugcoin thing" or something like that.

Just a question though: Why not build a better coin, one that would "trump" the other coins? Hire a dev and wait till the clones slow down, then innovate and release. It'll help with the adoption if it's simpler than Bitcoin, and will help the niche. Just an idea.

Here's the thing though; if a company releases a true PoW, zero premine, fair distribution altcoin then.... why wouldn't they just buy in and use an existing blockchain? 
 
I won't argue that if Google or Apple (or if they combined) said "we're redoing bitcoin, but relaunching it" they could seriously disrupt the market.  Fortunately, I think that company's are so dull that they will always try to retain some kind of measure of control over a coin, thus crushing any potential mass adoption. 
 
We are lucky Google fucked up Ripple so bad because now it set a bad precedent and we likely won't see any more corporate crypto until we already have a few key established and dominant blockchains that can't be competed with.

Google fucked up Ripple ?
Sounds like i missed some pretty big news. (no idea what your talking about)
I don't pay much attention to Crypto News type stuff anymore though.
It always just ends up being some advertising for next gen scheme being flogged.

All i know is i don't see any reason for a repeat of the large crowd that came swooping in 2012.

Some how those of you still here heavily involved in all of this do.. or so you say

don't think altcoins are dead but bitcoin will always be #1

For me personally, I'd rather invest into bitcoin, I rather take my chances with bitcoins than any altcoin

It seems to me that all altcoins are just basically scamcoins... Anything I have ever invested in, which has been 5+ cryptos, has all flopped after the initial introduction. All cryptos are just wanna be bitcoins. Bitcoin will always be the best crypto out there IMO.

as the baron says..

https://i.imgur.com/XVUlJaB.png

It's perspective really, many pump and dump coins ruin the legitimate alt coins out there, I believe in BTC is the true crypto, but ALT coins do have a spot.

I have been scammed alot in alt coin world, so I started my own 2 years ago, no IPO/ICO no pump/dump, funded and supported by me only, It's not a big coin, but something I can get behind.

What do you think about dogecoin
Will dead or still alive
The prize this coin 39 satoshi,. Someday will drop to 20 satoshi or dead

In my opinion, problem is constant flooding altcoin scene with huge amount of shitcoins and scamcoins. Altcoins now pop up on daily basis and ppl has lost lot of money and confidence. Every scammer/idiot/kid can hire developer and make his shitcoin. PPL get burned and never get back so there is more and more coins and less and less money in them every day so figure it out.

i hear investors say moon

http://i59.tinypic.com/258xf76.jpg

you say it's not dead guys but how often do people post here ?

I wrote about this topic today in my Altcoinblog (in German, sorry)
Die Gründe für den schwachen Altcoinmarkt:
https://altcoinspekulant.wordpress.com/2015/11/13/die-gruende-fuer-den-schwachen-altcoinmarkt/

http://i65.tinypic.com/2uy2fdc.jpg

the cooch is dried up son !

Dont think altcoins will ever be dead..

http://i68.tinypic.com/zu2i5s.jpg

I don't even know what to say anymore.. all you guys out there are deceitful, delusional & brain damaged and in denial.

I think unicorns and lizard people have taken over with the Illuminati and they run the world.
It's fact i just said so.

EDIT:
The only reason Bitcoin exists anymore is because of RansomWare makers and related bs losers.
If they are stopped Bitcoin will dry up and die and so will Altcoins.

Ransomware have amassed more than $325 million USD from victims.

They are the life blood of crypto.
You little noob's out there spend 50 bucks on shit coins and virus makers buy 1 million cash worth.
You noob' bullshit altcoin existence hinges on the backs of criminals.

Altcoins are just useless.... The owners just want publicity and money. There  is no point of having them around.

So it would be better for you not to post on any altcoin discussion thread in the future you're just wasting your time.

Are you saying the world isn't run by lizard people?

Well there goes my entire world view.


But in all seriousness, I agree that the business aspect of Altcoins is virtually dead, the "intellectual" aspect, however probably won't die, I myself am currently experimenting with altcoins on my own local network.

And, while yes ransomeware is a huge part of the crypto world, I don't believe that that is the sole reason bitcoin still "exists." It might be the reason it never becomes "mainstream" (that and websites like Silkroad) but to say there isn't a dedicated community (and big business) behind bitcoin is just plain wrong.

Plenty of us care about the idea and *not just the money.. that ain't the point though.
We have been over shadowed and we let the greedy take over (or maybe become them)
The result is a ghost town..

Bickering over whether it's actually read dead or not doesn't matter.. close enough.
I doubt things will change in a positive and meaningful way i have said lots unless we get regulations.
It's what stops us from destroying ourselves..

The pattern through out history has shown when ever we can ruin things by given too much trust we do.
We're like snakes that eat their own tales.
It's always someone else in Crypto that is the problem.
But it couldn't have gotten this bad unless we were all responsible.

We were all a part of a giant failed social experiment in greed..
What happened is we all just figured it would be ok if we supported shiity coins quietly when no one was looking.
This made coin cloning possible and led to many thousands of them being made.
Which in turn triggered the wave of momentum that got us here.

The only question to me is did these guys early on that would hang out on Cryptsy chat
did they really believe that it when they told me time after time that massive amounts of clone coins will do no harm ?
Yeah they actually said that and they were led by their leader.. BitJohn.
Who was always at the for front of making excuses for them all.. i argued with him and others about when this was
just catching on then when it was super popular then after when it was dead.

I head the same crap.. No it won't dilute the markets and cause price crashing..
Yes it brings in new users etc etc
All of it a crock of shit.

Funny is these same guy just change their tune and NOW go with teh crowd and claim to bea against them
But they were not before.

Spoetnik you have a reputation of being a Troll.
Actually i have a reputation of arguing with guys who run exchanges and support shit coins.

I called it.. look around.
And don't blame me either..
For example i left a scathing comment on the Doge coin ANN early on saying i was sickened and disgusted by ALL of youhere.
No one agreed with me.
You all made it the biggest altcoin.. regardless of my bitching and moaning.
So a coin can success (if you want to call it that) no matter how much i trash on it.

I'll wrap it up buy just saying this is just another trend that is going on.
I said when it crashes you will all play the i hate shit coins guy (because money is getting scarce)
But once money flows back in hard.. scammy shit coin clones will explode in popularity all over again.
There has been no lesson learned here, that is an illusion by people who push Pyramid / Ponzi Schemes.

Sit there and play innocent little crypto supporter but bear in mind with no regulations in place
the evil one's (everyone but me) are enabled to wreck things.

Let's just go back to pretending everything is fine and keep trading coins made by anon shady characters
..on Exchanges that require your ID and a bank statement and power bill and SIN card etc etc.
Isn't it cute you have to show your ID to sell an Anonymous Crypto Coin ? ::)

I also never proclaimed my innocence just that i was no near as bad as the majority.

edit: couple spelling mistakes

Unfortunately this is quite true... I've only been back to the whole Bitcoin/altcoin scene a few weeks now and there does seem to be quite a lot less discussion going on here than there used to be.



Oh I have no doubt that I was more than partially responsible for whatever tragedy might happen to befall Altcoins, whether that be total "block death" or simply "price death" either way, I'll still wear the moniker ILoveAltcoins because, well, I do. I love tech stuff and I love playing with code. Bitcoin's just happens to be awesome for that kind of stuff.

Regulations though... i don't know. Kind of defeats the purpose of Bitcoin, no?



Well that's just a plain stupid thing for them to say. Obviously it would have lead to market saturation. I could have told you that back in 2013 when I first made my account that that is where we were headed.


I don't think you're a troll. Sure you've said some trollish things on this thread, but I've never seen a troll display logic and reason, which you have done numerous times during our discussion about Altcoins on this thread, I think you're a pretty okay guy (Or girl, how should I know?  :P )


Yes, you're right, we're probably going to cycle through Alt explosions every 2-4 years, because that's generally how it works in any market without regulation. The problem is that you cannot introduce regulation into a project that was intended to have little to no regulation at all.

Also, I never claimed I was innocent, and never did I claim to support clonecoins (Sure, I used to, I also get paid to make them for people) I support personal currencies that people my release to the outside world for whatever reason, I don't support the use of people using various Altcoins to make a profit either. However I do support innovation, it's fun, it's cool, it's exciting. Which is why I like altcoins, and why i think the community won't die.

i am a simple person with some logic i hope...

When it is about profit all things are same enough
If you connect death of any Altcoin with just equity with the US$ or Euro then you are missing something i feel

i personally think value and life of any Altcoin out there is simple to realize
Are there unique services offered for AnyCoin ? then that coin cant die no matter what equity has

Just my 34 satoshis here ,have a nice day :)

@iLoveAltcoins.

First off thanks for side stepping my spelling mistakes LOL
I noticed the first sentence i wrote was messed up *as usual ahhaha

And i don't want to be right.. it would have been nice if all this kept expanding (but it didn't)
What we got was a lot of stories of i got hacked.. whether it was coins claiming that or Exchanges.

And the consensus by the majority on Cryptsy's Troll box way back day after day was cloning will have no negative impact.
It would just blow my mind how these guys could say that.
Hell i even seen a Coindesk story saying that.. saying the more the better.
LOL uuuhmm no  ::)

I want to ask you guys.. Did Satoshi go on the record claiming he was against regulation some how ?
And you guys do realize that regulations exist to protect you right ? and protect the scene too !
All you have to is look at the housing market crash and the recession it triggered.
It was caused by Greenspan refusing to put some simple regulations in.. no matter how hard he was warned ahead of time.
He is regarded as Fed reserve Einstein.. a god.. cover of lots of magazines.. a hero.

he's an idiot and he is personally responsible for wrecking the whole worlds economy.
he insisted that we would not let things get bad and we would police ourselves..
He gave us a free market.

Reality check kids.. Free Markets are bad.

All they do is make the rich richer.

Bernanke's current fixes are a band-aid that is peeling off.
I seen a guy on the news who said he laughed and made over 1.5 BILLION dollars profit.
yes that is right.. i said "Billion"
It was easy he said.. Bernanke again announced bail outs basically.
Bernanke pledged that the US fed reserve would hand cash out to keep the system afloat.
So financial firms laughed their ass off crashed the market and collected the free govt money.
Literally laughing to the bank then on CNN in an interview !

Kids with 2 bitcoin love the anon hackers rebel no rules bad ass bullshit.
but guys who make 1.5 billion dollars profit REALLY like the lack of regulations..

it's not much different between the two scenes.
you guys chant no laws.. i want a Free Market.
Well you enable the super rich to abuse the poor.. and hoard 95% of the worlds money.
They make their own rules and you can never win.. poor guys stay poor and rich get richer.
And you guys let 'em !

You *could even the playing field by putting regulations in place but you don't want that for some odd reason.
I always think of Berni Madoff and Martha Stewart.
A ponzi scheme'er and an insider trader.
Can you guys fathom how many guys in Crypto would be behind bars if we had similar laws ?
I just said..
You *could even the playing field by putting regulations in place but you don't want that for some odd reason.
I think i see why now LOL

Heh, no problem. Happens to the best of us :P

And yeah, stuff can't expand exponentially on Earth (specifically talking about business here) because the population of Earth isn't growing exponentially, which is why market saturation is a such a bad thing for business people.


While I don't know much about the housing crisis (it's a little out of my scope) I think I can answer the first question there.

I don't think he was specifically against regulations, per se, what he was against was governmental oversight coming in and exploiting the currency system. Too much regulation and government oversight can be a serious issue. Just look at the Cyprus incident that happened a few years back, they literally stole money from their citizens bank accounts. That's the kind of stuff that Satoshi was against... at least, as far as I know.



Yowza... that's a fucking sentence LOL

Look, when it comes to personal freedom, a free market is the only way to go. With an over regulated market you just get the same old crap we always get. We probably wouldn't have computers, cell phones, toys, etc. Because the government would swoop in and say "This is clearly bad for you, we need to protect you from it,"  which is why I'm fundamentally against anything other than a free market.

As for your other sentence, yeah, but it also allows for other people to become rich as well. In a limited market economy, the government and and a few "select" businesses get richer, it would be nearly impossible for someone from the "middle class" to join the ranks of the rich in a limited market, in the free market all it takes is a good idea, and good business sense. Plus, free markets give the people the freedom to choose whether or not a product succeeds or fails, not the government.

.

Sure, I mean, I'm a kid, and I used to think the rebel hacker bullshit was the coolest thing in the world. The Matrix really cemented that for me :P lol

But in all seriousness, Bitcoin isn't really all that different from cash. Sure there aren't as many laws restricting Bitcoins use, but fundamentally there isn't a lot we can to prevent cash from being used the same way.

Sure a lack of regulations can be bad, especially because we are humans, and humans are intrinsically assholes, but with a lack of regulation, the government can't swoop in a take all our Bitcoins, or shut Bitcoin down, or whatever. That's basically the entire point of Bitcoin, a lack of government power/oversight.


See, the thing is, an "even playing field" isn't really even, ever. Especially when talking about money. When it comes down to it, regulations put the power in the hands of the government, a lack of regulations puts *most* of the power in the hands of the rich. The difference here is that in one of those scenarios, the power is fixed and unchanging, in the other, the power is shifting hands basically everyday.

And, yeah, people have been arrested for Bitcoin crimes. Google "First Pirate Savings and Trust" and you'll see what I mean.

But, if you're a socialist/communist (no bias against either of those viewpoints, I just disagree with them) then me arguing with you probably won't convince you of anything.

Also, I just realized that the topic on this thread has shifted dramatically because Spoetnik and I are now arguing about the fundamentals of economy. I just thought that was funny LOL

i did not say i want excessive regulation.. i meant *some.
this will enable fairness.
imagine what would happen if the current stock markets abolished any related laws.

the housing market deal was all about the hollow stocks that have no value.. like a clone coin ponzi.
if you're into P2P file sharing look up on torrent sites this file, Money for Nothing Inside the Federal Reserve - Jim Bruce 2013
it explains it REALLY well !
i think every American should be required to see that in school or something.

but yeah i agree Govt. involvement is often a train wreck.. no debate there LOL

but there is a huge difference between no rules and some fair ones to even the playing field.
don't skip over the point that the only thing close to a real Free Market is the illegal Black Market.
American capitalism stock exchange stuff is heavily regulated.
Where is the Free Market examples in life ?

I also have long been a proponent of *some regulation for 1 single reason.
I am convinced this is the major barrier to any and all crypto currency technology (lack of regulations)
Why ?
Because i don't think the people who trade on the US stock exchange etc or your friends and family on Facebook
are going to -ever- adopt a crypto currency unless there is *some regulations put into place for it.
And it's hard for any of you to deny me that assertion too.
Think about it.. Look at how Tigerdirect etc handles Bitcoin.
They know it's risky and few places adopt it for use as a currency because it's a hassle and it's risk to them.
How would you minimize the *perceived risk ? ..regulations.

edit: i forgot many of you may not know there is a huge amount of complaints about them.
when a refund is needed and you paid with Bitcoin expect pure hell ..Google it ;)

I also am not trolling when i say Bitcoin is not a currency and more resembles a pyramid or ponzi scheme.
I google searched "Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme" recently and not because i really thought it was one
but because the public does.. and i wondered why technically do they ?

I hate to say it but search result no. 1 on Google had an editorial on the Washington Post that summed it up nicely.
After reading that i have a hard time deny what the guy said.. he's right !
All of you should read that story
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/08/bitcoin-isnt-the-future-of-money-its-either-a-ponzi-scheme-or-a-pyramid-scheme/
Why ?
because it's what the people we want to join us see when they Google search Bitcoin.
And of course i think Altcoins fit right in there with it..same crap.

Well you all say People don't think that.. wrong !
Most of the public have been saying that loud and clear all over the world for years now
and rather than supporting adding regulations you all have plugged your ears and demanded they are wrong.
problem is the public is in charge not us.. we can't force them to use BTC or an Altcoin.
Public perception is important.. what we think is not.

EDIT:
Point ?
Bitcoin and Altcoins are not used as currencies nor are they designed as one.

altcoins not dead, but scammy altcoins are

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1226618.0

all the greedy and scammy devs are drying up the bitcoin that used to be for trade

no more trade due to scammy devilz

Some of altcoins are still popular, because some Web sites are using altcoins  ;) Also altcoins have very fast transaction time  ;D

I'm not going to talk about regulation, as I am pretty clueless when it comes to securities and exchange law.

I might come back to it when I bone up on my reading but, I'll just concede that this sounds pretty fair/correct, however I still disagree that there can ever be a "level playing field.


Now, the meat of your post Spoetnik... the classic "Bitcoin is a ponzi" claim (Which the article you provided does not substantiate)

This one is practically as old as Bitcoin itself. The thing is, Bitcoin is usually thought of as a Ponzi because early adopters are currently rolling piles of Fiat because they cashed out, while us late-adopters are still trying to work our way up to 1 BTC (Me, currently) which is why _Some_ people think Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. Which can be disputed many ways, especially considering that it's not any different than early investors making more money from a startup than late investors, but I digress.

No, the article claims Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme because
1. It isn't a currency and
2. People hoard bitcoins with the hope they will skyrocket in price, and then try to convince other people to buy Bitcoin so the price will go up

See... these two points do not prove that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, mainly because they are incorrect or misinformed.

1. Bitcoin is, in fact, a currency.

According to investopedia currency is defined as:


Sure, Bitcoin isn't issued by a government, but it is circulated within the economy, used as a medium of exchange for goods and services, and is the basis of trade. Sounds like it fits all MOST of the criteria.

2. Yes, people hoard Bitcoins, but you know what else people hoard in hopes of becoming rich? Gold. Gold is one of the most valuable things on Earth, has been used as a currency, has backed other forms of currency, and is generally considered to be a solid investment for people.

How is that any different than Bitcoin? And why is Bitcoin considered a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme because people hoard it the same way they hoard gold?

I've hard many people tell me I should invest in gold (and oil. Canadians are HUGE on Oil) but when people do it for Bitcoin it's different? I honestly don't follow the logic there.

I think you proved what i was saying about BTC and Alt's (they are an extension)

I said ponzi /pyramid because from an objective stand point it seemed true.
You just said it yourself.. BTC is primarily used as a digital commodity than it is a currency.
It seems to me BTC usage as a currency (as little as it is).. is simply a push for BTC holders to want that for
legitimacy and added value..
Because with out having BTC used as a true currency for bartering etc then what value does a digital stock have ?

That author was right.. it does hinge on "one day" the masses will all use it (as a currency)
What if that never happens ?
I think if BTC is only ever used a digital commodity it will continue to suffer a downward pressure in value.
Big mining operations mine them and dump them on the exchanges..
If there is not enough permanent buy support it will be crushed into worthlessness !
So who is buying them ?
A select group of traders.. the minority (not the general public)
The public does not want to buy a Bitcoin worth $1,000 or even $300 usd
Would i ?
Hell no !
You all here might but you guys don't matter.

Many people in Crypto have acquired Bitcoins or ALT's through a variety of means.
But the general public is expected to go to their bank and take out a massive amount of fiat to go buy them.
Some of you reading this got yours because.
- You traded Altcoins to get your BTC.
- You were an early miner (BTC can not be mined anymore)
- You are a Ransomware coder extorting people for money who are forced to get BTC to get their files back.
  Note: The Ransomware industry supposedly pulls in annually an estimated 325 million dollars a year.
  and if any of them hit reply here i will get an argument.. because they need to keep cashing them out LOL

Well anyway i think it always revolves around public adoption.
Which has been in a steady decline for 2 years.

All i have to say about currencies is..
if it is not used as one but instead used as something else than it's not a currency !

iLoveAltcoins you admitted BTC is not really used as one but as a stock.
Just like that Washington Post guy said..
And the author clearly made the title and his comments reflect that he figured it was "more like" a ponzi / pyramid scheme.
He meant it was more like that negative label than it was a "currency"
And when i thought about i see what he is saying and i also think it applies to Altcoins just as much too.

I have been like you guy all along.. a fan of BTC
I google'd that set of keywords because i was curious why people say that.. not because i thought that myself.
He convinced me.. why ?
Because he made some good points about how Bitcoin was engineered to function (and the related limitations)
I am not trying to be a Troll and i am not saying i give up on Bitcoin either.

EDIT:
That Washington Post guy must have been convincing as others who keep saying it (since i started crypto)
Because it was hit #1 on Google and look around.. see the general public clamoring "Take My Money ?"

Sure, I mean, Bitcoin nowadays is used mostly as a commodity. But that isn't through a fault of design, it was more a fault of consumers. When Bitcoin trading became big business, everyone jumped on the bandwagon and the price shot up, thus getting more people in on the bandwagon. It's a self serving business model, and I find it very disheartening. I would actually be a lot happier if Bitcoin was more or less on par with the dollar. Then it would be more viable as a currency because, as you said, who wants to buy 1 BTC for $1000, unless you plan to make a profit off of it.

The original vision for bitcoin was an admirable one, a currency free from government control. One that couldn't be shut down without shutting down the internet itself. The mindset changed somewhere though, when trading became very profitable, when mining became even more profitable.

You're right when you say that a currency is mostly defined by how much, and how the public adopts it. But just because a lot of people trade Bitcoin as a commodity, doesn't mean it isn't a currency. See the thing about a commodity is that it serves some need or purpose, has some kind of value that can be traded for other things of value. Bitcoin, technically, has no value. It serves no greater purpose than to exist. Sure the ideology behind it and the tech behind is, indeed valuable, but the Bitcoin itself isn't. It's the same as fiat, it's technically worthless, but we all agree it has worth because, why not? Also, another point, commodities can be used as currency. Look at gold for instance, before we had a "gold backed" currency, we literally used gold as a currency, it was still a commodity, but it was also a currency.

And, again, you're right when you say that Bitcoin has a lot of limitations that would limit it's ability to become a mainstream "currency" but just because it has limitations, doesn't mean that it ISN'T a currency.



Hey man, I don't think you're a troll , I think you're just giving your honest opinion as you see fit, and you do actually make some good points. I just happen to disagree with that opinion, which is why I'm still posting here, arguing my stance lol

But to say that it's a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme is a stretch, I could see how people could think of it as a commodity or stock, but as a fraudulent business, I just don't see it personally. 

You still didn't get my point or the point of the Washintong Post guy
and i think it's because your clouded with optimism about Bitcoin..
It's more useful to try and see things as they are rather than pushing an optimistic view.

i will repeat it yet again..
no one said it's a ponzi or pyramid scheme.
what has been said is......

it is "more like" one when taking on an objective, analytical and functional perspective.
..in comparison to a traditional currency.

And oh i am well aware of the history of gold and the emergence of the Federal reserve after Gold was dropped.
and i say isn't the point of BTC about the future of currency ?
So analogies saying it's like how we had things 150 years ago is silly no ?
Can you say going in reverse ?

I don't see it as an opinion type of thing.
I see it as an engineering thing.
Look at what -is-
Not how you want to interpret things.

Bitcoin and Altcoins are not used as currencies.
They are used as digital commodities that far more resemble a digital type of pyramid / ponzi.

And i doubt many of you out there admitting your 20 years old etc have a clue about the history of Pyramid schemes.
I recall the Water Filter pyramid schemes that went around in the 80's ..because i was there.
I am not a wide eyed wet behind the ears kid who is brain washed by Bitcoin bag holder propaganda. LOL
So ?
many of you need to actually get off your ass and go and learn what a ponzi or pyramid scheme is
and that is faaaaar more than Google'ing the definition at Wikipedia.
Try reading testimony from people burned by them and how they actually work out in the wild.
..then come and talk.

The first thing Altcoin guys did here is start propping up worthless clone coins with adding value services schemes.
That was the very fist bullshit gimmick of sorts.. we all laughed about it and called them on it too !

So tacking on a market that no one is or ever will use is a means to make it -seem- like XYZ coin has some use.
Oldest Altcoin dev (marketing team) tactic in the book.
And i see the same thing with Bitcoin itself.
0.01% of users care if it ends up being used as a currency.
The rest care if they make money off it.. it's farce ..a facade.
Just like Altcoins.

If you guys actually cared like you claim you wouldn't even put your new coin on an exchange.
The trade value would be of no importance to the bigger picture.. at least in the first years.

The disconnect with reality all around crypto is wide spread.
You all wish things were different so you try to say they are.

I'd say Bitcoin is not being used for many reasons the biggest being is they are too expensive to buy.
Why is that ?
IF any of you think there is hoards of people coming later to buy any coin for $300 a pop your insane !
Your high on crack LOL
It's never going to happen.. wake the fuck up !

The only thing that would cause a large surge in adoption (or the perception of adoption)
Is if it got added to the US stock exchange with regulations.
And that would solidify the death of it as ever ending up being a currency.
No crypto coin is stable enough to be used as currency value wise. (problem = wild swings in value)
That would do nothing to help get the general public to drop fiat and use BTC instead (or an altcoin)

NOTE: That would make BTC shoot up in value and in turn make it less likely Grandma is buying some.
And there for simply push the user base of BTC to be even more just for traders.

I am wasting my time because no matter what many of you refuse to hear the truth.

The housing market crash people in the financial world called that a Ponzi scheme.
Because of how it actually worked.. derivatives.
And the parallel is identical to this crap.

The bundled derivative housing stocks were hollow and worthless and bared no fruit.
They were / are exactly like a useless digital token we see in Crypto.

There is no "one day"  ::)

Okay, I'll admit that I am very lacking when it comes to financials and such. I actually had to do quite a bit of research on these kinds of topics in order to understand some of the deeper points you have made.

But I'm curious, alright, in Your own words please explain why you think Bitcoin is a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme. (which, lets be honest here, are basically two sides of the same coin)

And I am looking at it from an objective lens, Bitcoin just doesn't fit the mold of a Ponzi scheme. And yes, I have done research into Ponzi schemes, a lot of research, in fact. Ironically enough, while financials themselves don't interest me all that much, financial crimes interest me a lot.

I will concede that it is unlikely Bitcoin will ever find wide adoption as a currency, because Bitcoin has become too renowned for it's trading and volatility. I  just like the idea of Bitcoin, I think it's cool. I personally wouldn't care if Bitcoin ended up hitting $0.01 because I'm in it for the tech. I know that I'm in the minority here, and I know basically 99% of people would leave if that were to ever happen, but hey, I don't give a flying fuck.

I haven't been here long enough to see the earlier alts, but I got here around the time the Altcoin boom started happening, so I know just how worthless a lot of those altcoins were. Some were cool, had interesting innovations, others were bitcoin with a coat of paint. Those were more akin to Pump-And-Dump schemes, not Ponzis (again, very similar in nature) but schemes none-the-less.

And you are, indeed, right when you say that the biggest hurdle for Bitcoin, as a currency, is the price. Who wants to spend $300 on a Bitcoin (unless you're a trader), and like I said, I think dollar parity would be a lot better than what we currently have.

I am listening, and I agree with a lot of your points, like Bitcoin probably not gaining widespread use as a currency. But I still don't see it as a Ponzi scheme, because, if it were, then the Stock market and Commodity market would also be Ponzi schemes... probably... like I said, I don't know much about these things.

If you all are going to listen to fucktards like Max Keiser yammer on saying shit like..
"You can think of StartCOIN as the quantitative easing that the people never had"
I suggest you fuckers get off your ass and get educated.. or your blind lemmings.
http://www.simondixon.org/forget-open-market-operations-we-now-have-coin-market-operation-start_coin/2014/08/06/

get this documentary that explains what that is..
"Money for Nothing Inside the Federal Reserve Jim Bruce 2013"
https://thepiratebay.mn/torrent/9325697/Money_for_Nothing_Inside_the_Federal_Reserve_%282013%29