Bitcoin Forum

Since BTC price started going up, all I see is almost every other altcoin being sold and dumped. At some point people re going to switch to altcoins and these are going to start getting pumped as well. This is what happened last time BTC went up and it s gonna happen again.

The main question is what price BTC needs to reach for alt to start facing some upward price pressures again.

I say about $600+. What do you think?

Now that is a good speculation thread, to be honest I vaguely recall that altcoins had an ideal ratio to Bitcoin that they keep, the problem is that besides Litecoin which had a fairly solid baseline the rest of those altcoins have never really experienced a Bitcoin rally and therefore have no known floors yet, I presume that the next best estimate is to value them by market cap range lacking the historical data and extrapolate from it a roughly known Bitcoin price.

My answer is unknown needs more data and research on my part atm :).

That is what happened last time, I agree.  It doesn't mean it will happen again this time though, assuming that the current rise turns into a big bubble.

If it does exactly the same as it did last time, last time I think it was at about $800 when the alts went crazy, that would make it 3x the previous ATH, so about $3300 would be to be expected this time.

I do agree that this current upwards trends will turn little slow and we will see some kind of stability and then altcoins will begin to react and people will inject money from their profit in that market.So we still have to wait a couple of weeks to happen that again.

I'm sure there are some juicy rises in the works, but two years have passed and hopefully people are a little wiser. In those two years barely one single alt has gone beyond the boundaries of their shitty exchanges. Plenty have imploded. They all have track records now and it ain't an inspiring one.

I can see why 2013 might've inspired people to think 'this is it'. These days we're going to need a bit more convincing.  

BTC price rises used to drag alts to higher levels about a week or two weeks delay. I guess we will see major pumps in a week, but it appears there's already an ongoing LTC pump (I can rule out a natural price rise though).

My guess is that BTC rally will top at 520, soonish, then altcoins get some love.

http://imgur.com/0UqVO38

I think there'd need to be a sustained BTC rally for alts to get any attention. If this one falls away rapidly then people won't be inspired to move into alts.

I think LTC was the main one last time that was up there, this time around though there are so many other altcoins it will be interesting to see which of these have an upward rise, I would imagine the likes of DOGE and DASH possibly but time will tell.

i think when btc will stop its run, now everyone holding garbage coin, is selling them to fuel even more the pump, it was like that also in the past

and it was the same with litecoin pump, other alt have a less chance to see good pump like this, minus maybe the strongest one like litecoin

I can't speak for anybody else but I won't be playing the altcoin game this time around. No matter how much pump & dump they do. They are literally garbage.

Namecoin and Peercoin are going up.

I think that's how plenty of people feel. Then they'll look at the alt exchanges and it's only a couple of clicks away...

I guess that this is something that we were all wrong about. We all thought that when the next Bitcoin run starts, that alts will go up even more. And exactly opposite is happening. Alts are taking a beating.

Another thing in crypto world that we were wrong about. This just proves that sometimes nothing makes sense in this world.

About the alts, I think that people have just lost confidence in pretty much all of them.

Only the alts that's value isn't strongly tied to bitcoin.
LTC, PPC and NMC are already starting to speed ahead.

And rightly so. They've proven themselves to be a black hole for dreams. But this run might only have just begun. I expect they'll generate excitement a little further down the line if it ramps up and then there'll be even more broken hearts.

its true no confidence into alts just a bit of doge ltc and no much more maybe dark or dash now and wount be pumped directly ito satoshis just the related value of btc the pump wount happen i guess

This is what always happening in the first phase of the rally, people are dumping alts for BTC, the pump and dump business starts a week or two weeks later :). We will see soon if alts will follow this scheme again.

Good topic. I have been thinking about the same thing. I lately bought into alts in the anticipation of a giant rally to maximize my gains.

You think that altcoin rally hasn't begun yet? Think again. Alts are not falling against bitcoin, it means they are rallying with bitcoin. If you converted some of your BTC into alts, you are not in a loss in terms of BTC. It's a good sign. It means we have still a chance that alts will start surging against BTC.

Hyped BTC will be naturally cashed out in alts. When people begin to realize that BTC is already overvalued, they will begin buying alts to maximize their profits.

99% of alts are loosing pretty bad against btc.
The only thing is ltc right now.
I agree with earlier posters that the alt pump will beginn wenn we are reaching a flatline or dumping in btc.

LTC, NMC, and PPC will be pumped as well. Check the charts of these and compare to bitcoin. They tend overshoot in value same like bitcoin, but the returns on these coins are crazy, that's why I'm thinking of investing on them after prices have gone low.

XRP and DOGE will follow, because both are on their bottom nowadays.

Well, LTC has always been the king of altcoins it will probably rise first. Then second hand altcoins like nmc ppc

Well, the possibility of an Altcoin pump is the reason I'm focusing on the most prominent altcoins now. Have bought a bunch of LTC @ 0,0118 and plan to hoard still relative cheap NMC and PPC today. LTC is now around $5, PPC and NMC roughly $0,50.

Or we can forget about everything that we are talking here and just ride Ethereum pump and dump wagon. They are down almost 50% for God's sake. And they have gone up 50% few day ago. Who is orchestrating this?

All of the other alts are down a lot today as well. There is a bloodbath currently on coinmarketcap!

I'm invested 10% in Peercoin, 30% in NuShares and 5% in BlockShares. Completely unaffected by the "bloodbath". My BTC holdings have not decreased at all.

let hope to see this but this time i dont think so
most of alt are steady but you never know they can go up in no time
so this may be good way to speculate which will be first in this

The returns are definitely crazy and I even think LTC outperformed BTC in 2013 (?). The issue is picking an alt with enough volume so that you can actually get out if it spikes!

How do you conclude that? look at the top 100 http://coinmarketcap.com/ nearly all are surging with btc, and nearly all will drop with btc. That's the way it happened last time, that's the way it will probably happen this time.
The time to get into alts is when btc hits the top and starts coming back to earth. People new to crypto drawn in from the huge btc pump news will look for a second chance, as they missed the btc pump. I'm very much looking forward to jumping into alts again if btc does have a $3k+ pump, this last year has been a total waste of time for me trading them - nearly all my gains came in 2014.

The alt market is directly affected by the enthusiasm of Bitcoin. Without Bitcoin succeed there is little alt succeed. I predict alts will come back roaring because there is always a market for speculators and people who missed the BTC train looking for the next best opportunity.

Look at the volume of them. There are only a handfull that have some volume.
Like i said time to go in is flatlining or dumping btc while we are rallying!

I think alts ll start raising once BTC reached its top and hopefully stays there for some time. Cause this ll be the moment where people re going to realize they missed their BTC change, AGAIN, and will start searching for alternatives to repeat the whole cycle.

Yup. It's like a tidal wave, which is actually preceded by a drop in the tide. In this case, I think the surge in alts relative to bitcoin comes when new investors feel the need to panic buy, but they fear they've missed the bitcoin boat. We're not yet to that point.

Its THE TIME to buy Ethereum. Microsoft will reveal the details of partner next week.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/microsoft-partners-with-ethereum-company-offers-cloud-based-blockchain-application-development-platform-to-its-clients-1446484607

I think as soon as you see the btc price start leveling out, thats when the alts will see some money coming in, ie people going from BTC-> LTC.  Then ltc will top shortly after the btc top is hit.  That seems to be the pattern

^^ This.

Tell me, how much infrastructure has been invested in alts? How many startups formed specifically for alts? How many institutional investors have interest/visibility to alts? How many merchants are adopting alts? etc. etc. etc.

Alts are just a speculation game that ends in zero. Enough people have been through that game to see where it ends and don't see a reason to play the game now.

nubits is the first cryptocurrenct that solved the volatility problem. there is certainly need for cryptocurrencies that are not as volatile as bitcoin. you cannot argue that, you simply cannot. but generally you are right, 99% altcoins are trash.

I dont think there s such thing as solving volatility problems. Pumps and dumps will always take place as long as crypto does not become so widespread a single person or group of people cannot affect the price, due to huge volumes.

try pumping nubits then. it would be hilarious :D or perhaps read their whitepaper at https://nubits.com/

nubits has held a steady peg of 1 USD for more than a year by now. it works incredibly well. what is more, it has paid quite a reasonable amount of dividends to the shareholders already

yes. Historically this is what has happened. But I think we are a long way from serious volume profit selloff of BTC. I think we will have to be well beyond current ATH. And the funds will flow to the strongest alts. Probably just a few.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1211057.0

what kind of BS topic is this? if you think you can break the peg of 1$ then why don't you do it to prove your point? until CMC shows that NBT is keeping the peg, it doesn't matter what warm air someone blows out of their mouth.

just go to poloniex and see for yourself that there are plenty of buy and sell orders near 1$ price.

There are screenshots that shows a ridiculous 5 btc buy support.
When btc spikes nubits and co have a big liquidity problem and it is only getting bigger the more btc rises.
Just think about it and hope they dont run.

let me repeat myself --- if things were really so bad, then how come the peg has been kept? just break the peg as a proof of concept and see what happens. don't just spread FUD. I have used nubits for a year now and I have always been able to sell and buy as much as I need to. if there is no liquidity in one exchange then there is liquidity in the other exchange. it works.

Didnt meant to offense or fud, just some thoughs.

There will always be screenshots of such.
Some might be fake, but there are real ones as well.
I can only speak for Nu, because I'm not familiar with other "stable" coins.

Providing liquidity for Nu comes with some safety measures. In very volatile times it might happen that walls are pulled for a short period of time.
But it's necessary to do that. Otherwise you might end up selling 1 NBT for the BTC equivalent of $ 0.9 (in case the BTC price swings down by 10% in a short period of time while the wall doesn't get pulled).
There's nothing wrong with that. Selling 1 NBT for $0.9 and buying it back for $1 is economical suicide.
I understand that people are unhappy not being able to profit from misplaced walls...
As soon as the volatility settles, 1 NBT can be bought or sold for $1 (+/- exchange fee and a little buffer to prevent the walls from being shifted at each tiny move of BTC price).

NuBits have been stable for more than one year (even being under pressure with exchange hacks in February this year), are able to handle daily trading volumes of millions USD (have a look at January this year). The recent daily trading volume was hundreds of thousands of USD. The peg was kept tightly all the time.

If you want to have a live overview of walls maintained by Nu, have a look here: https://alix.coinerella.com/walls/
Of course there's not one exchange with all the liquidity - Nu is decentralized even in this area.

Seriously - what are the alternatives?
Trading to real USD (or other fiat) at an exchange which you are not able to withdraw in minutes and send them back in minutes 24x7 (and only after you have passed KYC etc. barriers)?
BTC-E coupons or alike?

USDT (http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/tether/) (Tether)? You are aware that Tether is fully centralized by holding the collateral in USD? If the funds get frozen or lost for whatever reason, USDT is worthless.

bitUSD (http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/bitusd/) is open source and distributed, but has little (currently: no) volume at exchanges. The spread is much closer since the release of BitShares 2.0 - it's yet unknown how it can handle high volumes on exchanges. Have a look at the number of supported exchanges and the trading volume: http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/bitusd/#markets
And you complain about "only" 5 BTC buy support for NuBits at a certain time?

coinoUSD (http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/coinousd/) is based on NXT, but a fully centralized Coinomat operation. It requires proxy assets to work, which doesn't make using it very convenient.

MØ (https://www.idealreserve.info/) is closed source, distribution status is unknown (to me) and the inner workings seem to be hidden behind marketing names like "Argus-Nemesis algorithm", "Clotho-Hydra algorithm", etc. - come to your own conclusion!

NuBits (http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nubits/) is open source, distributed and based on well-known software (ultimately based on Bitcoin code, with Peercoin and Peershares in between).
If you want a stable, blockchain based, open source, decentralized, pegged (to USD) currency capable to handle decent volume and without external collateral, the choice is somewhat limited at the moment ;)

From discussions here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1000725.msg11126060#msg11126060 there is no mechanism to guarantee the future value of 1 coinUSD. You have to depend on the issuing site to actually have the money to redeem coinoUSD, just like Tether. It's a centralized e-currency. You may as well use PerfectMoney or OKPay or exchanges'  e-coupons.

Im not asking for much before I switch to an altcoin..


Just give me something that is instantly transfereable, while also being instantly respendable, and while being near impossible to doublespend...  also if it could be totally decentralized and have minimal to no blockchain bloat, and have the ability to have 1000's of tx/sec.....   


then Ill consider switching.

oh and if it could have anon capability, that would be nice as well.

Then you consider switching? From what? Bitcoin? Because Bitcoin offers all that?

just saying that I will put all my Bitcoins into whatever altcoin can do all these things...

I love Bitcoin, but If a coin can solve all the problems with using bitcoin ill go all in...

actually, Im already half way there, if the project I like proves in time to have accomplished all these goals, Ill go all in and say bye bye to BTC.

These wonder alts promise the Earth. It doesn't count for shit unless actual humans pile in no matter how wonderful they are technically. Have a dabble by all means but Bitcoin itself is risky enough and that's taken years to get the amount of trust and faith it has now. Without those your money is likely to turn to dust. Ask all the thousands of people on here who lost out when they believed their coin was 'the answer'.  

It will be extraordinarily hard to have one "coin" that does all and all of it better than other ones.
Maybe the Unix Philosophy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy#Do_One_Thing_and_Do_It_Well) "Do One Thing and Do It Well" is more efficient.
You have less dependencies on other things and some things can't just be achieved at the same time, because they are at opposite ends.

You want anonymity - pick the right one! (e.g. Monero (https://getmonero.org/Monero); huge blockchain growth)
You want speed - pick the right one! (e.g. MØ (https://www.idealreserve.info/); closed source, unknown level of decentralization)
You want minimal to no blockchain bloat - pick the right one! (e.g. Peercoin (http://peercoin.net/); over 2 years old, less than 500 MB blockchain size)
You want it decentralized - pick the right one! (why not Peercoin again... secured by PoS, but distribution via PoW still ongoing)
You want a high number of transactions per time - pick the right one! (have no clue what is _really_ capable of 1000's of tx/sec)

You can't have a high number of transactions with a small blockchain in a decentralized design very easy if ever.
On the other hand decentralization and small blockchain work very well with each other.

All you need to have the right attribute at the moment you need it is a frictionless exchange of different coins - just trade to the coin that has the required attribute when you need it!
If you want to speculate, buy BTC, LTC, whatever.
If you want stability, buy bitUSD or NBT!

Decentralized exchanges might help a lot here, especially those who operate with native tokens.
Sadly Mercury (http://mercuryex.com/) and Blocks & Chains Exchange (https://bcexchange.org/) are not yet operational and all existing decentralized exchanges require proxy assets or are in other ways inconvenient.

For the time being services like shapeshift.io (https://shapeshift.io/) seem to be the only convenient and frictionless means of exchange - but obviously shapeshift is centralized.

sorry didnt mean to derail this topic.....  Alts will start their pump after the Bitcoin Bullrun obviously, unless something comes out that solves the problems that Bitcoin faces, while being better than all the other clone coins out there at what they claim they can do.

Earlier this year the alts rallied before Bitcoin. Bitcoin was doing nothing, then dead alts started mooning one after the other while Bitcoin remained down. Earthcoin, Feroraoin, and Mooncoin all had spectacular rallies after being declared dead and languishing since 2014. Eventually Bitcoin rallied but it's sometimes the alts that moon first.

The way i see it is altcoins are used by traders that don't wish to cash out to fiat, but rather in an altcoin that seams profitable at the time, so when i see bitcoin
price surging forward , i sell every alt i have, and re-buy them once bitcoin upward pressure stops. There are many pumps that are unrelated to btc price tho, much harder to predict those.

My guess with the alt's it is about luck, meaning you buy them when they are reaching the all time low.

Most alt rally's are started by...nothing at all. Look at vtc, ftc and even ltc), no news, no features just a sudden pump & dump. Buying alts (expect for a handful innovative coins) is just a waste of time/money.

This time, the pump of bitcoin is by some institutions. They are not interested in altcoins. So the pump of altcoins will come very late and degree of pump is less than previous ones.

Except for those leading the pumps and dumps, no one can really know when they happen and what their target is.
Not being the leader will make it hard to be on the winning side, because there's obviously an information asymmetry.

It might be a more reliable approach to find those altcoins which really do something others don't and invest in them.
Just because some altcoin has unique attributes doesn't mean it WILL be successful. But it means that it has a chance to be successful.

It's very much like with startup companies - a lot of them fail, but those that are successful might become very valuable.

So go and search those altcoins that have attributes which might make them successful!
Diversify your investments. Be patient. Don't panic buy or panic sell.

...or try to play the trading game - sometimes you'll win, sometimes you'll lose...

And if you want to try something completely different, invest money in corporations that have moved their management processes to a blockchain (DACs).
You can buy tokens of those corporations and participate in the development by making decisions and can profit from the success by rising prices or receiving dividends.
Examples for DACs are e.g. BitShares (https://bitshares.org/), Blocks & Chains Exchange (https://bcexchange.org/) (under construction), the Nu network (https://nubits.com) (not the stable currency they issue, but shares of the corporation: NSR), NXT (http://nxt.org/) and for sure some more that I'm not aware of.

Probably when the 1w RSI is oversold and/or daily is below 20...

Not really, namecoin usually increases when bitcoin increases. Same for peercon, bitcoindark etc.

There is no innovation happening with the coin and like litecoin we can see it as a coin that survives on bitcoin's succes.

The namecoin's price has been surpassed by many new coins.
Is there a loss of interest in this coin? It is used to be popular coin.