Bitcoin Forum

Reason for the throwaway account is I like to keep my internet alias' unrelated to my real identity (being a minor, people don't take you seriously if they know your a kid).

She was at my school talking about cyber bullying being a problem (highschool) and made reference to her being one of the main people involved in internet related events and bitcoin popped into mind, so after the presentation I went up to speak with her.

I introduced myself, and told her that I am related to a (good? idk) friend of hers. She recognized the name of the person I made reference to and seemed "small world" kind of happy.

I proceeded to bring up bitcoin and there was a immediate shift in facial expression, so this confirmed that she is well aware of bitcoin (as I expected).

I told her that as I'm sure she saw, a bit of bad publicity hit bitcoin and it was dubbed a "online money laundering currency" and "drug trafficking agent". I told her that this is not the aim of bitcoin, I told her that if you where to read on the home forum, it is ever abundantly clear that the aim of bitcoin is to take away some of the MASSIVE power from the banks and reduce fees associated with it, I said her how recently I made a international transaction on paypal and they took a ludicrous fee for doing virtually nothing, which she agreed that it was indeed a ridiculous fee.

I went back to the titles "online money laundering currency" and "drug trafficking agent", I said that granted, bitcoin can be used for such things, but so can cash and almost anything else (i.e : insurance, gold, silver, etc etc).

I'll try and follow up with her about this though, or ask my relative to do so if I can convince him so.

This is bad.  This is an image we have to shake, by any means necessary.

EDIT:  by any means necessary includes some means that just aren't worth using.  Let's leave out the really horrible ones.

My thoughts exactly, I didn't like reading "Online money laundering currency" I was very angry when I first read that.

She didn't give me any response on her feelings towards bitcoins, but hopefully it will all work out okay.

You can't convince her. She probably believes a regulated, state-approved currency is the only way to go. She can't imagine a common man having so much power over his labor, which Bitcoin provides.

She isn't a bad person AFAIK, and does have people in mind AFAIK, but again, I'm just a kid (when I proclaim this, I tend to abuse this).

My relative who is a friend of hers is very liberal and he supports her more than he supports any other elected official from what I've seen, I believe he met her through helping her campaign back when she was first trying, but I could be wrong, might have been before/later.

She's a politician. It would be political suicide to back something like this, I imagine. The Federalists certainly wouldn't approve, at any rate.

Absolutely.


I am amused that you state your reason for using a throwaway account while simultaneously negating that reason.

Well of course she couldn't "back" it, its just that if there is a chance to shake that horribly incorrect title, then I'd like to try and jump on it. I don't want to be known as a "criminal" because I want to avoid paying corporations (not government) for doing something that I could do myself for free. I have nothing against paying taxes.

EDIT: Lol, Just realized what you actually meant. I found it hard to avoid the fact that I spoke with her at a school related event. Thats why I included that little bit.

Basically, I could care less if people don't believe me (again throwaway w/ no proof of the convo). I just wanted to let people know that it happened and wanted to report roughly how the convo went, without having my minority attached to my real account.

That is all.

Alright, understood. I definitely appreciate the effort then. We certainly need some sort of positive PR going on to counter the smear campaigns. :-/


That's legit. Though you can always just pretend to be in college. It's more or less orthogonal with grade/middle/high school, depending on what college you pretend to be from. :-3

lol @ cyber bullying presentation in college :D I hope to god that college students have learned that the internet is a giant circle jerk and not to take anything seriously, if not, than instead of campaigning to prevent cyber bullying, we should campaign to teach people that randoms "internet-toughies" say "mean things" on the internet, and to grow up.

Also, on my real account I do just pretend to be in college whenever asked. It's simple, and it doesn't effect anybody

Lol basically I'm just protecting my real account's e-peen (more or less).

Psh. You'd be surprised. Some colleges, particularly private ones of a religious nature, treat their students more patronizingly than the high schools they come from. I have a friend who went to a private Christian college in Portland, OR where men and women were not allowed in each other's living quarters except for one hour a week, and that under supervision. And I've heard of colleges in the south where things are even worse. So... yeah. Sadly it may not be all that far-fetched.

Oh my. I am surprised, though I guess I shouldn't be, it could have been guessed.

I'll be back in a couple hours, I need to take care of a couple of things.

What means do you propose? What is your aim? Merely to "shake this image", or to prevent some individuals from using Bitcoin to perform the types of transactions which gives us this image?

If a large enough people think that violence should be used against some Bitcoin users, and doing so will "shake this image", do you support using such violence?

Back, but only for a moment then I'm out again.

Of course not, but you bring up a good point here, we need to start choosing our words carefully to be explicitly clear of our intentions as to prevent any ill interpretations of anything we say.

If you are biased and you generalize by attributing to a group, a subgroup or individual's actions:

Are you racist if you are biased based on race?
Are you sexist if you are biased based on gender?
.
.
.
.
etc., etc.,

What will you be if you generalize by saying bitcoiners are launderers, when only a subgroup of bitcoiners are laundering bitcoins?  Could you be dubbed a bitcoinist?

Will each of the possible roughly estimated 600,000 world wide bitcoiners ( http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12574.msg174344#msg174344 ) appreciate a statement like that?

i... i don't understand.

that couldn't be superman!  why, he's wearing glasses!

You know damned well what my aim is.  As long as the word "bitcoin" is associated with "drug money" and "laundering" it will be impossible to sell it to the united states populace, and therefore impossible to squeeze the powers that be into accepting it as a valid form of exchange that doesn't need to be obliterated by any means necessary.

Your anarchistic fantasy of unstoppable free trade can't last, because unless bitcoin graduates from the back-alley territory it is in, the value of the bitcoin will be annihilated when uncle sam drops the hammer on using it for illegal goods.  Bitcoins HAVE to be traded for goods and services in great numbers and in broad daylight, and this crap is hindering that.

Edit:  I propose we retrofit the DEA to break down people's doors and rough them up a bit, you know, really step on their civil liberties.  Maybe fire off a couple rounds into their Corgis for absolutely no reason.  That'll do the job, as per your specification.

Edit of the edit:  Wait.  That's what the DEA already orchestrates, in a way.  I guess we're good to go as is!

lol at this rate, we are doomed. but at least it's a amusing read.

It'll be a fun ride for us in the US, assuming we pick the right moment to step off the train before it wrecks.

Bitcoins will proliferate elsewhere, and it will creep back here one day, when our country realizes that unless it competes with the countries utilizing this superior currency, it will straggle and die off as a world power.

You're assuming that a significant number of people will stop using it because the government tells them to. I think this assumption is less and less valid every day.

6/6/2011
Name : Me
Place : USA

6/6/2012/2013
Name : Me
Place : Not USA

And you're assuming that the government won't allocate a huge portion of its ridiculous oppress-the-masses budget to turn bitcoin busts into the latest weed raid.

This.
Remember those riots in Bolivia a while back after they tried to privatize the nation's water supply to the point of making it illegal to collect rainwater or drink from a stream or lake? I think people are starting to figure out that the corporate way isn't always the best way and that the government way... Well, let's be honest, it's usually the same as the corporate way.

I am struggling to discover the relevance to our discussion, here.  Do we drink money?

What he's saying is that there are many people who are much less willing than you to follow stupid rules.

Would you prefer a violent collapse of this country?  It is so heavily dependent on income tax now that the present power structure would not survive a sudden and total halt of income from us.

Exactly.

The people having free ownership over what falls freely from the skies is in their best interest. The government or a greedy corporation having ownership of that resource and then re-selling it is not. Governments are supposed to be acting in the best interest of their people. Occasionally they grow corrupt and occasionally they need to be reminded that we outnumber them tens of millions to one, in some cases.

It's not just about what rules are smart and what rules are stupid, it's about what rules benefit society and what rules harm them. An international, deflationary, secure and largely anonymous currency is in the best interest of all the peoples of the world, so any society that outlaws it is not acting in the interest of their people.

"Occasionally the tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants."
-Thomas Jefferson

Prepare to bleed, then.  The people aren't on our side, yet.  They don't even know what bitcoins are, and when they hear about them, they hear about illegal drugs and laundering.  There is no chance for that kind of victory without the public massively behind us.

I agree. While I love Bitcoin and am sympathetic to Libertarian principles, I think a lot of people here vastly overestimate Bitcoin's current power and influence. To succeed as anything more than a club for idealists, Bitcoin needs the general public's approval.

The war on drugs is already helping to bankrupt the Federal government, and it's about as effective at ending drug use as pissing in a bathtub is effective at lowering the tub's water level. A war on bitcoin would put a few people in jail, certainly. But the added cost to the state would only hasten the state's demise. I do not welcome or call for additional state aggression, but it must be recognized that the state is already overextended, and every new war it starts, whether on foreigners or its own people, makes it less effective at each war it persists in fighting.

And few things would win sympathy to the bitcoin community faster than political aggression against its users.

Hmmmn.  That's an interesting point.  You might be right, unless there's some other unguessed-at mechanic behind these aggressions.

Trying to decide if I'd tap that.

...

...

...

Nope.

I do not reject the possibility, but as I cannot speculate without veering into conspiracy theory, I will decline to speculate.

Yep.  This goes right into space alien territory.  Good call.

/me puts on his tin foil hat

Maybe tomorrow, my friend.  I'm pooped from those riotous good arguments in the Silkroad thread.

I've got to say dude, you're the first bitcoin minor I've seen, but not the first bitcoin miner :D

:) . I know of a number of other people who are minors and who openly proclaim so, and then I'm certain there are others like myself, who wish to pretend to be an adult so people don't freak out when we are doing 3-4 digit (left of decimal) trades (I understand why they would freak out 100% too, as hypocritical as it sounds, I wouldn't knowingly do large transactions with a minor).

That thread finally made me google Loretta Sanchez.

Committee on Armed Services
Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations
Subcommittee on Strategic Forces (Ranking Member)
Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities
Committee on Homeland Security
Subcommittee on Border and Maritime Security
Subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence
Joint Economic Committee

I am not surprised that she is aware of bitcoin.

Should we count on her ? ( i` am mean, should US bitcoiners count on her ?)
Pretty narrow specter of interests  - huh ?

Well, suit for  your self.

For some reason, I was compelled to google* "DEA raid corgi" and I found out this actually happens. They just "Bang" shoot your dog, based on the SUSPICION of you being involved in something illegal. How exactly is this innocent until proven guilty?

Just came to mind, lets say that you are mining bitcoins and consuming unreal amounts of electricity and "non-existent" thermal scans show a incredible amount of heat in his living room. DEA gets warrant based on "you has pot farm, supar seckret sources tells me so". DEA breaks through your front door and finds your dog, of course, because they have a warrant, they shoot it. They then find out there is not a single illegal substance anywhere to be found in your house. What happens now?

they plant an illegal substance in your home.  they'd rather be evil than proven wrong.

on the other hand, you could call your local DEA office, explain that you're running some fairly intensive computer stuf, your electric bill has quadrupled, and you'd like to invite them over.

have a lawyer present when they show up...

That is actually sound advice. Should be sticky in Mining

You only hear about the really calamitous raids.  The ones where they bust in, uproot some carpeting, apologize and leave don't make the news outlets, but they're pretty goddamn frequent.  Preventing this, and dealing with this potential problem really does deserve its own thread.

Actually contacting them in advance may not be the best thing to do.  Anyone with experience on this matter able to weigh in?

Being polite, non-confrontational and completely cooperative, on the other hand, is the difference between some power tripping sergeant deciding "you're all right" and pulling a bag of angel dust of out his hat.  Keep your place clean, keep all rooms and major areas of storage accessible and uncluttered, to reduce the damage caused by a team of dudes poking through every nook and cranny in your home.  Charisma has everything to do with this - if the cops generally like you as a person, they're not going to be interested in obliterating your future.

Sadly, botched raids happen all the time. I think part of the problem comes from an over abundance of SWAT teams and a relative dearth of appropriate scenarios for them. And laziness. Why bother with good police work when law enforcement can just surprise suspects with overwhelming force and just troll for evidence of criminal activity?

Oh man, let me get this straight your suggesting I keep my house nice and tidy so that when law enforcement comes under false assumptions they won't damage my possession's? I can plainly see your already bent over, you mind if I hide a few things in there before they ransack my house? Not to dismiss your advice entirely it's true about your attitude and demeanor. However shouldn't those in a position of power practice a little humility when they are wrong? Might help keep them in check by the people a little better if they'd even allow us to rub their face in it, even if it's just a crude remark like don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Damage control and basic psychology, buddy.  If you treat cops like human beings, they're vastly more likely to treat you like a human being.  If you open the door with a fuck the pigs attitude, they're vastly much more likely to think, "well, fuck you, too".  You must understand that drug raids frequently see armed combat, and everyone on those teams is surging with adrenaline when they knock on (or kick down) your door.  Being non-confrontational and cooperative puts everyone at ease.  It may even save your Corgi, if the dog follows your lead, as dogs have been doing with their masters for thousands of years.

There will always be bad apples, of course, so your results may vary.

As for keeping shit clean - a team of men in boots, be they workmen or swatties in riot gear, are going to trample anything you let them.  They do almost as much damage as kids!

Okay, this sort of apologetics makes me want to rage. But, I know better.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/16/a-drug-raid-goes-viral?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FArticles+%28Reason+Online+-+All+Articles+%28except+Hit+%26+Run+blog%29%29&utm_content=Google+Reader (http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/16/a-drug-raid-goes-viral?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FArticles+%28Reason+Online+-+All+Articles+%28except+Hit+%26+Run+blog%29%29&utm_content=Google+Reader)


Also: http://articles.cnn.com/2008-08-07/justice/mayor.warrant_1_dead-dogs-cheye-calvo-trinity-tomsic?_s=PM:CRIME (http://articles.cnn.com/2008-08-07/justice/mayor.warrant_1_dead-dogs-cheye-calvo-trinity-tomsic?_s=PM:CRIME)

And finally: http://fuckyeahwelshcorgis.tumblr.com/ (http://fuckyeahwelshcorgis.tumblr.com/)

Those are just bad apples, you can't lump all cops in with them! ;D

edit... You were too quick, was looking for this link (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/26/979293/-Why-did-Arizona-kill-Jose-Guerena,-26,-Marine-veteran-of-IraqAfghanistan?detail=hide).

Don't you mean bacon?

Well, that place police officers in a row with fast food servants - don`t be harsh with them, and they will not spit in your food - cool. Low and order in rise of their hopes. Actually - i  am was always think like that. That adds great deal of honor to PO`s

Servants? Really? They're workers. I mean, what do you think would happen if they knew you called them servants?

Hmm... I am suggest they will spit in my food ...
Hope they did not will know that i m said this, at least fast food workers.

Didn't mean to jump on you like that. English clearly isn't your first language. Fast food workers may not have the most desirable jobs, but they are still workers, not servants. "Servant" comes off as rather demeaning.

Okay.  Yell at the police and carry on until they resort to their usual brutality, then.  Congratulations, you just got beaten senseless and accomplished absolutely nothing.  Good work.

My post was about damage control.  I have never once implied that I approve in any way of the depraved, legitimized gang violence that goes on so often in our country.  If you guys want to fuck the popo so much, suicide bomb your local police station.  Jesus.

Hm, How to said this. Now, in Russia  police (yes, it called police now) is public enemy number X. Not sure witch exactly X - 1 trough 9, but sure not the XX, or XXX.  People  is more afraided when saw man in police uniform, then man with gun in hands.

Right!  Because the man with the gun in his hands, while he can shoot you, he won't necessarily get away with it.  The policeman will definitely get away with it.  Legitimized gang violence.  Same way here, too, although they aren't nearly as openly brutal, or so I've been told. 

There are still many good men and women who are officers in my country.  That doesn't excuse the rampant corruption, but they're there, and they are people, struggling to do good when there is so much pressure to do wrong, and you those of you in this thread who live in america and have forgotten this, would do well to remember it.

Anyway, I've been thinking that I haven't been communicating myself effectively.  The system of law that america groans under has gone incredibly foul, and the weight gets more and more oppressive with each passing year.  I agree that we're sliding into something really bad.  I just don't see any possible gains from individualized defiance with such a, well, this is going to sound insulting, but with such a flagrantly teenage theme to it.  It would take nothing short of a massive revolution, be that armed and violent, or (hopefully) peaceable and with the means overwhelming public demonstration and legal weight to compel change. 

There just aren't enough of us willing to throw rocks at the bee's nest yet, to make any rocks thrown likely to accomplish anything but anger and pain.