Bitcoin Forum

Whats your thought on this?

For a lot of criminals Bitcoins are the perfect tool to launder money or not? Almost no trace but still they have to explain how they got the money once they convert it back into dollars....
Will this become (or already is) a problem? I'm thinking that the anonymity will be a problem for a lot of governments once BTC becomes a well know payment method.

the governments dont care..
their banking red flags are already good enough.

bitcoin is treated like a foreign currency or an asset (like gold or antiques in that regard)

if someone moves more than $10,000 out either by wire transfer or buying something expensive or making a large withdrawal at a bank clerks desk.. it gets flagged.
so it doesnt matter if an american is laundering via bitcoin, Euro's, antique auctions.. its all treated the same.

Yeah i was kinda thinking the same thing... for the USA

In the EU I think if only 1000 euros gets moved it gets flagged by the banks because of some new regulation to stop money laundering. With that restriction bitcoin is useless for money laundering. The USA will probably copy the EU and reduce their limit to $1000 before long.

for atleast 150 countries out of the 200+ in the world have some form of flagging system.

and to be honest money laundering is less about criminal behaviour, and more about limiting customers from taking their money out on a whim.

EG ATM's have a $500 limit in most cases, UK has £300. not due to criminal concerns. but to keep 99% of peoples funds in the hands of the bank for their lovely fractional reserve processes.
there is psychology behind it.
if you had $10,000 and you could walk up to an ATM and take it all out.. you would. simply so you can go home and throw it in the air to "make it rain". and then spend it on whatever you pleased, when you pleased without having to bother walking to an ATM each time.

but by limiting your access to it. you only take out 5% at most. and then you are more thoughtful of how you spend it. because the ATM limits your usage and then reminds you that you are poorer than yesterday with its balance displays. causing people to not want to withdraw as much.. (playing into banks desires)

after all a can of car fuel and a box of matches can do alot of criminal damage for under $30, so a $500 limit is not stopping criminal activity.. even guns cost less.

wire transfers are different. because it involves bank->bank. thus fund stay in a bank, so that is more relaxed at $10,000 US or 10,000Euro.
EU wire transfer regs are 10,000, not 1000

It is very difficult to use BTC for money laundering, unless you don't want to exchange it to fiat at some time. Most money launderers are trying to invest in real estate or legit businesses and that's nearly impossible with BTC. You sure can buy pizzas and ice-creams with BTC but that's not what money launderers are trying to achieve.

what if he does not exchange them for fiat, but... he buy directly at phisical shop or face to face or whatever? no re flag can happen in that case, and anyone can basically move thousand of dollars without the governments noticing anything

Let's hope this sector gains more growth in the coming years!

Bitcoin is agnostic, anyone that finds value in using it creates value for Bitcoin's economy while starving fiat governments of resources.

A win-win!  ;D

The problem is mostly the negative publicity associated with it IMO.. It's just an excuse for the media to talk bad about it because they are scared of it..

You could maybe buy gold or some other goods with bitcoin and then sell it for cash, so you avoid banks, credit cards etc.

The people who swallow this "negative publicity" BS are mostly ignorant regular joes who largely hold no value.

Let the media talk, people with large pockets looking for a secure way to hide their wealth might notice and figure out there might be something for them in Bitcoin  ;)

Spot on! This is what i'm hoping for

It should not be a proplem if ppl actually understood how btc works. bitcoin is not anonymous: http://www.bitcoinisnotanonymous.com/

Even bitcoin devs said that using bitcoin for illegali things is stupid:

Bitcoins ARE traceable [Interview with Jeff Garzik] | 2011 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p9M1IU2k50

"its pretty blib and dumb to do a lot of illegal transactions on bitcoin when it's so easily traceable [4:33]"

It never seems to be a huge problem for dollars? Like any currency, where there is money there are criminals.

I agree with you. Every imput can be traced back all the way to it's generation in block reward. If we (average users) can trace back with somewhat success, just imagine
what someone who's doing it professionaly could do.
On top of that, regulations could ask for bitcoin addresses to be registered in order to be used legally (I find this the logical step if there's continued bashing on bitcoin)

Its more about proving who owned what BTC at what time than tracing back anything. The BTC tracked change hand all the time, maybe hundreds of time. The problem is not telling that at X point there was a crime committed with those coins.

Its that you can't prove that the person who cashed it out is the one that committed the crime. Unless he is retarded anyways.

I don't think so, already many criminals and terrorists used the fiat and the cash before the crypto currencies founding, so the Bitcoin currency haven't really any kind of relation with the illegal deals or transactions worldwide

If bitcoin has 1% of the money transaction pertaining to criminal activities, the price per Bitcoin would go in the thousands. So yes, saying BTC is criminal's money is media nonsense.

Well it is not really suited for that I think. We should not forget that Bitcoin is not anonymous, the weak link will always be the purchase of the coins.

I am often wondering if some large mining operations could actually be money laundering fronts.

we don't know, they use bitcoin or not
perhaps they was used because secret and unkown,  we don't know,
important bitcoin is perfect way to launder money

Swiss bank accounts are better way to save money, cash is better to launder money. Bitcoin has only small percentage on money laundering worldwide. Blockchain records show everything so it's not the first choice for anybody.

I think criminals prefer to don't waste the time waiting the 'complicated" bitcoin transactions and confirmations, it's more simple and easy for them to use fiat and cash and they used this currencies already

I don't find it a huge problem right now. Bitcoin exchanges are mostly regulated and there is mostly a limit to the amount that can be traded. This is an disadvantage for those trying to do money laundering. Even with localbitcoins, there is low liquidity and some would even require an ID.

I don't see it becoming any problem, to launder money they would need to transfer it from one place to another without the help of anybody else, which bitcoin does quite easily BUT the problem is converting it back to fiat, you're not going to find cash traders for large amount of fiat everywhere. I think there other ways of hiding and launder black money and criminals were using them before Bitcoin was even invented.

Its old news,every thing about bitcoin violence is not weird,bitcoin is easy for use,for anything,include miney loundring or isis money support. But i dint think its a huge problem.

people who launder money want it to be liquid with no trail.
My uncle used to be a partial owner of strip club in washington
DC area and he has some stories.  My point is that is a great
place to launder money lol. BTC seems a little more complicated
and a lot more of a hassle to launder less.

Bitcoin can be used for good and for bad in terms of money laundering.

I know somebody, who is unemployed but earns a lot of $$ by means of online businesses, and his parents pay huge tax because they are on a VISA. He trades his bitcoins for cash, then lives of cash, instead of transferring it to a bank account and paying tax etc.

Tax evasion and money laundering some may say, which is the legal definition I guess, but money earnt to survive on that is taken away at a crazy tax rate... bitcoin lets people be free.. and get their freedom back..

Err where am I going with this.. not really sure...

It depends on how the societies will react to it

In my country, if you are flagged as a possible money launderer, you have to go through a full life style audit, to explain how you maintain and fund your luxurious life style. If you cannot explain it, they will start a full investigation and you will eventually get caught.

The penalties for tax evasion is harsh and some people do some jail time. So it is not worth it. ^hmf^

From criminal's point of view, use bitcoin is much more dangerous than cash: Their wallet might be emptied by hacker, and unless they have a very sophisticated coin mixing scheme, one of their bitcoin spending/selling might reveal all their previous transactions and get them caught

For example, police know that some addresses received illicit funds, then they will mark all the transactions originating from these addresses to be suspicious. No matter how many times the criminal mix his coins, eventually he would like to spend some of his coins at somewhere, either at an exchange or a specific merchant, then police might find a high rate of relation between these addresses and also identify the owner

There should be many patterns for typical money laundering actions, if police do enough amount of research, even the criminal himself might not understand how he get caught. Because of the openness of blockchain, law enforcement are much easier to trace the money than traditional financial system, where they have no right beyond the boarder. And they don't need to blacklist the address, they just quietly follow it and see how it evolves maybe even bigger guys behind it

So from the surface, it seems the address is not related to identity, but the user never know if someone is tracking his transactions, this is the biggest threat for criminals, they don't need to worry about this when they use cash

It may become a problem once bitcoin acceptence is at such a level that they can easily spend their coins everywhere and in large bulks.

As mentioned, trading it for fiat and transfering it to you bank account is not an option as you will get flagged anyway. Buying 10k in amazon vouchers may also get you one someones radar.

Nice post. And in the UK it is actually illegal to make any purchase of anything with over £10,000 in cash ! Imagine being a lottery winner and going to the car dealership to buy that shiny new car, with cash in a briefcase, and getting turned down, and the police called lol

For the large criminal organizations, they cannot use bitcoin to buy the goods or service directly. They have to change it to fiat like US dollar. So bitcoin is not the best trading tool for them. However, they can hold the bitcoin as an investment.

So... What about that other place on the world wide web, the deep web, there are many many places vendors are willing to accept the criminals Bitcoins for services, both virtual and very very real.

If terrorists from Paris caught living. so they will not kill us human system but gives them a life sentence from a possible release for good behavior. That's right. crazy..

the american swine  gave Ulbricht a life sentence as a warning sign for other producers another silk roads anonymous sellers of illegal drugs.
but when it comes to legalize it and let the business of another legal drug freee.. taxed like other drugs like alcohol and tobacco ,sugar, pharmacy..etc ..  Noo noo

in each country increase the number of state employees. from that where I am the most in Europe (39 per day).and they do not create value, only parasites in taxes/state income... !!!war on drugs therefore can not end!!!!. For it is fraudulent evasion-employment..

the American and other governments in Europe have priority islamization. and not democracy - responsibility for our deeds -- if I die on my an overdose, do not close me in jail and leave me alone..

US and NATO are the best interests of the islamization of europe. They  tolerate everything and obama with satan stoltenberg was right immediatly with smeagol , after shot down a Russian aircraft battling  with islam.

Personally, I find that it's not easy to buy reasonable amounts of bitcoin without sending my government ID, and/or my taxpayer identification number, to the various exchanges. (I am not willing to do this because I don't trust the security of many start-up companies, and worry about identity theft.) When the exchanges have this information, it's a simple matter for the government to subpoena them, and then me.

I think there must be an easy way to trace the bitcoin transactions.It doesn't takes away the convenience that bitcoin offers.Frankly speaking I don't understand the logic behind opposing any Idea of tracking bitcoin.Unless you are doing something illegal,why would you want to keep your transaction anonymous?

You pay cloud mining or buy miner equipment and then get paid with bitcoin. Mining is a way to get bitcoin without tracking.

No. All transactions are public and can be reviewed by anyone.

Unlike in banks.

Transactions are public, but users identities are not. Its exactly opposite to banks, where transactions through bank are not public, but user identifies are know (by banks).

So as long as your identity is not linked to your address, you are untraceable. But the moment you start buying bitcoins through exchanges, giving your address to merchants, the chance of linking your identity to all your past, present and future bitcoin transactions increases.

This is the risk ppl have to consider when using bitcoin and wanting to remain as anonymous as possible.

It's a perfect way to launder money.
It sucks that criminals are using such a good tool as bitcoin for this use
Whenever a criminal gets caught laundering money, the media is all over it
Just so they can write negative stuff about bitcoin.

No Not bitcoin why do we have Monero and Dash?
And Shadow? Those are jokers of for anan trade and ...

i think yes, it will become big problem,if there is too many case of money laundring using bitcoin,

one day the government can banned bitcoin and bitcoin reputation will become bad

No, I don't think so. Several banks have been involved in money laundering and that did not become a huge problem.

"relastate/gold/silver/insert basicly ANYTHING else used to do money laundering - will it become a huge problem?"

I agree for the most part.
I think laundering money is something that happens
and it shouldn't have an effect on bitcoin itself, since it doesn't have any effect on banks either.

Agreed, it's like before bitcoin money laundering doesn't exist, It is just another way to attack the bitcoin from who would gain from his disappearance

Why didn't I think of that? Thank you. I am patient, so I just purchased a 5 year contract for 1000 GHS of cloud mining at Eobot.com. Let's see how that goes.

Tell me why you think it is a perfect way to launder money? Have you used it for that purpose, to be able to say that? Most people think it is a perfect tool, until they try it. There are ways to follow the money, even with Bitcoin, when you are using this tool in the wrong way.

Most of these people wants this money in fiat and it's very difficult to convert Bitcoin to fiat, without raising the red flags. Agents even infiltrate localbitcoin to identify these activities and the rest are done on exchanges and banks with the implementation of strict AML and KYC rules and regulation.

Probably. Governments can't even catch the people that launder fiat, how are they going to catch people that launder Bitcoin?

How is is perfect exactly, in you opinion? Just yesterday we had news about guys trying to use bitcoin for illegal activities getting caught, and how easy it is to just follow blockchain trail for dirty bitcoins:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/01/20/dutch-authorities-arrest-10-suspects-using-bitcoin-for-illicit-goods/

Also, yesterday there was article saying that UK released a national risk assessment for money laundering and terrorist financing. And guess what, Bitcoin is considered as a low risk in that assessment.
http://blog.cryptoiq.ca/?p=164

Well, I wonder why. Probably because bitcoin is not-anonymous, and all transactions are public. Just my guess. But criminals seem not to know this. Which is good for police off course :-)

they don't care at this point, income from taxes for them is useless actually, it's just a way to have contorl over their money, in reality they can have much money as they want with a simply click and endless printing

Money laundering is something that is on government to track and watch.
Laundering is older than bitcoin, so we cant do anything about that!

Why would any serious money launderer want to use Bitcoin. They already have established systems using HSBC, Lloyds and other major banks. Using Bitcoin will just attract attention to them.

No, it's not. Unlike Bitcoin, cash money is sometimes impossible to track. Of course you can use mixing services etc. that can help you hide traces of your transactions, but Bitcoin is not designed to be anonymous.

my 1st question would be how do you get the £100,000 into bitcoins to launder to me that is the bottle neck and why it wont be a massive problem.

It is not just bitcoin that is used for money laundering. Fiat currencies and precious metals can be used to do just that as well. In fact, criminals often use FIAT cash to do their biddings and have their own strategies to launder their gains.
Before Bitcoin, they also did money laundering, now that bitcoin is here, they still do it the old style!

Correct, every currency even asset is used to do money laundering. Bitcoin is an currency so yes people will use it for this purposes.
In fact the most used currency today is the US dollar.

The funny thing is, that people are more worried about use of electronic asset, than some piece of paper ;)

I knew not only bitcoin . fiat , gold , diamond is also included . but I've never heard anyone do loundeing money using bitcoin.

The best way to launder money with Bitcoin currently is by using the growing real estate market.

There are many places in the world to buy thousands of btc at a time and transfer them to your own wallet without flagging government oversight. Then you use that btc to purchase real estate. Here's some examples:

http://bitcoinhomes.org

http://bitcoin-realestate.com

http://bitcoinrealestate.com.au

https://www.bitpremier.com/5-real-estate

The rest is easy. You simply sit on the real estate for a number of years then list it for-sale-by-owner. If you're lucky you can even make a profit on the increased equity when you sell.

Another possibility is to use the purchased real estate as a rental property and profit from a continuous legal income stream legitimizing the tainted money.

This isn't my idea. I visited a dark web forum once where there was a guy bragging about stealing 25,000 btc. He was being harassed by a bunch of people telling him he'll never be able to dump that much btc, bla bla. His response was that he already dumped it into three rental properties in Cyprus. Smart guy!

The only problem that this will create and has to some degree is the fact that the government will jump in and start trying to control Bitcoin.  There are already tons of regulations on exchange sites that make buying Bitcoin with FIAT or vice versa hard to do.  So, Bitcoin is currently used to launder money and always will, but the affect will not be on Bitcoin itself, but on the structure of exchanges and the future of how it is used.

The way I think it will become as problem is when the media lets out all the negative stuff that's being done with bitcoin. Which is not really good for bitcoin if we all want it to grow. The best possible way for bitcoin to grow is when there's a huge demand for it.

So none of these sites are being audited? How do you register real estate without paying taxes? .... The story sounds a bit suspect to me. At some stage someone is going

to put two and two together and do a lifestyle audit on him and starts asking the right questions. I too own rental property and I have to give detailed information every

year for tax purposes. If I suddenly buy more property, they will start asking questions. This sounds fishy....  

True, but at least it is getting the word out there and in people's head.  There was a time when no one had the least clue.

I'm not sure as he didn't go over any details but I do know legal requirements are different in every jurisdiction. He may pay the taxes in fiat but traded for the properties in btc. Are your rental properties on the island of Cyprus?

If bitcoin can be used for money laundering, there must be a way to stop those criminals using bitcoin for such fraudulent act. When problems arise, solutions will always rise also. If criminals try such, the world will always find a way to prevent and eliminate them. It's not just a bitcoin's problem.

Cannot be possible. Every exchange whenever it could be must have the data of all the customers who want to make big amounts of change. The few amounts cannot serve for laundering because are nothing for that who want to "bleach" money. While if want to change big amounts is easily identifiable because of conditions above told and must be fulfilled by law by every exchange. So any kind of risk for bitcoin. To not tell that the regulation of it will reinforce (or have already reinforced there where is regulated) the rules against this kind of activity.

It's actually not even difficult for a world traveler (which I assume most criminals are).

First go to Panama and open a bank account at multibank. https://www.multibank.com.pa/en/private-banking/default.htm   You don't really need to go to Panama but it probably makes it easier.

Use your new account to purchase MoneyPolo prepaid Mastercards in $25,000 increments.  https://moneypolo.com/int-en/products/prepaid-cards/ Open an account at BTCe https://btc-e.com and fund it using the MoneyPolo cards. Use the BTCe website to buy bitcoins and withdraw them to your personal wallet. Use the Bitcoin to buy anything from real estate to luxury cars and planes.

Pretty sure USD is the most used currency for money laundering, but as others have said there are flags in place with most banking systems.

But fiat money are controlled by governments and banks, and they can print it at will. So government and banks will not ban fiat money or do anything to harm themselves.

With bitcoin this is not the case. Thus governments and banksters try need to squash it, before they loose all control.

Agreed.  It is mostly negative publicity.  Money laundering goes on in all currencies.  What about counterfeit bills?  We should have stopped printing more money then because of counterfeiting.  I think eventually there will be less and less talk of this with Bitcoin.  There are too many investors going all in on this and they don't seem to be concerned.

NO it won't, as long as you're still in the good way. Don't use Bitcoin for a bad purpose, use it for the good things.

I dont think so coz there is bitcoin mixer that you can use to mix the tainted coin.

Should it become a huge problem?  No.  It's probably a bit more useful for laundering money than some other things, but eh.

Is it going to become a huge problem?  Maybe.  Especially if gov'ts want to restrict bitcoin's use, they could make it seem like it's a huge issue.  Like the drug laws in the United States and elsewhere.  We've seen this sort of shitty gov't behavior in the past and it wouldn't surprise me if they threw up money laundering as a smokescreen. 

So you mixing coins with other tainted coins, potentially even dirtier than your own coins. Definitely a great idea \s.

Well to start, BTCitcoin doesn't have a total anonymity and as a matter of fact, it's pseudonymous and once someone gives a name to their addresses, it could be traced easily and be identified meaning there's a higher chance for criminals that use BTCitcoin to be caught than those who use fiat itself so as result BTCitcoin isn't a perfect tool for criminals after all.

Yes it will become a huge problem because of money laundering. The governments must require to take legal actions for that. Some secure measure and laws must have to publish by the unions of states especially UNO, as about more than half of the world is going to depend on bitcoin in finance in very near future.

that's exactly the problem they can mixed every time making them un-dirty and thus used for anything illecite, that's their point

however those who want to be regulated will simply put their coins on website like coinbase to avoid trouble, the other need to declare their income in some way

even with cash you can avoid moey laundering, those can be easily falsified

Thats true but i dont thinke that this will be a too huge of a problem

I don't find it a huge problem right now. Bitcoin exchanges are mostly regulated and there is mostly a limit to the amount that can be traded. This is an disadvantage for those trying to do money laundering. Even with localbitcoins, there is low liquidity and some would even require an ID.

Not just Bitcoins, but all types of currencies are being used for money laundering...
Does that mean that BTC alone should be accused for the same???

Each and every currencies are used in money laundering, In one or other way who did can be found.
In bitcoin no identity is required which makes it ease for money laundering

fiat money are controlled by banks and governments. So they dont care if its being used for money laudering or illegal things. Bitcoin is out of their control, and take financial power from banks and governments. Thus they need to fight. They just scared of loosing their power now. Money laudering, illegal things are just an excuse.

This is true that not even Bitcoins there are many other currencies in the world are used to do money laundering and its going on from the old times. Which will not be changed and may be bitcoins will be the easiest way to transfer their money.

That's true but the pseudo-anonymity of Bitcoin is a desired feature by the money launderers because it's harder to detect and investigate into.

I don't think that criminals have started Bitcoin laundering. Fiat is still the best for laundering.

Yeah that's true. Criminals these days don't use Bitcoin, they use Paypal or banks.

And this argument of 'bitcoin being used by bad guys' is quoted by people who believe bitcoin simply must change to bring it in line with other payment methods.
This unfortunately means adding identity information to bitcoin transactions and/or making it possible to blacklist funds. This eventuality will be real if we want to stay with bitcoin.
It will be either this of end of BTC.

dont expect dump people doing these kind of acts, they will find new ways to launder money no matter what and you cant complain one system against the other .

That is true. Criminals are always trying to find new ways of committing crimes. And now they have Bitcoin.

Bitcoin was already been used on bad way on Silk Road..
And i don't think they will ban bitcoin,
they gonna watch transactions and charge those who commit crimes and that is all.

The first part of your post is very clear and I accept it as it is without doubts. But I cannot understand what are the increments and where are found the money to buy this kind of things which must have $25 000 value. Cannot be bought such amount of value without money. Where are and in which way are made ready to realize such kind of bought? You tell that the account at Panama can be open even without going there. So this account must be founded with money. In which way these money go there.

This is the first thing. The second one (and for this I am not sure so might be even not correct) are you sure that btc-e doesn't ask personal data when are in "game" such kind of amounts?

And now the third. I have not this your conviction that with bitcoin can be realized such big things like you believe and write in your posts. The use and the acceptance of bitcoin is yet very limited and someone who want to use the money in every way him want, cannot be satisfied if have not the normal currency on his hands.

as knowledge that bitcoin is not anonymous is spreading, criminals will start using bitcoin in a way to increase their anonymity. Subsequently, it will be more difficult to watch transactions and fully deanonymize users.

Bitcoin can be used as a main currency only a Deep Web. In every other place its status is the same with all the other kind of currencies. It is not only bitcoin which is used by criminals. Even, they mainly use other money and not bitcoin because the use of the other money is much more spread than bitcoin. That which can be assured using bitcoin is much mess than that which can be fulfilled with the other money. And this proportion condition even the use of it compared to the other currencies. A criminal don't ask for bitcoin. He ask for that kind of money which help him more in the achievement of his aim. And no one can prove that this currency is bitcoin. Cannot be proved such thing. There are hundred and hundred criminals that make crimes and are free. Who knows what kind of money is preferred by them? They are free and cannot be known what they think until will be captured by the law. To not tell even that it is very hard to be proved that all those in jail have told the true about this question (if asked).

Large amounts of cash are what is being laundered. They "find the money" as you say, by selling drugs or human trafficking or illegal arms trading or a million other naughty things.

You can open a BTCe account with fake info. Trust me, they don't really care (you know they're not in the USA, right?).

Sorry, I'm not really sure what you mean by the third thing.

That is a good argument. I think the US dollar is the most widely used money laundering tool. It is still the number one currency.

Its true but it will not be a problem because it happens at any currency there is available on the market,
there is always a backdoor.
With every currency there is so it would not become a big problem in the future.

But the amounts are not cumulative, so you can slowly take your BTC out of an exchange like Poloniex using a fake name (since they only require your name and you can put a fake one) and then every month you get your BTC or whatever out without no one realizing. And if they start being cunts you can always go to another exchange that will not spy on your wealth.

Money is laundered with bitcoins and with all kind of money, this is one problem difficult to solve. You can use prepaid phone cards, amazon cards, or dollar notes to launder your money. Its a problem that existed before bitcoin.

Your right even when BTC didn't exist they always find a way for money laundering. Never ending story ridiculous people don't understand that.

Right. You can kill a man with a fluffy pillow if you don't have a Kalashnikov. It's a bit *easier* with a Kalashnikov, that's all.
Oddly, there are places on earth which try to regulate AK47s, while any child can go into a store & buy pillows.

Money is a tool.Bitcoin is money.You can use the money to buy poison or nectar.It doesn't makes bitcoin bad if it is put to bad use just like you dont stop using fiat despite a it is also used to buy weapons etc

Sure. Money is a tool. As is an AK47. You can use an AK to dig a nice garden, and I'm sure it's been used as a spade many times. But it's much better suited for killing people. A fluffy pillow is also a tool, which has been used to smother people many times. And yet it lends itself so much better to being a headrest, so it's not tightly regulated.
This is analogous to Bitcoin and fiat: Fiat, while a percentage of it is used to buy shitty oily meth & nugs with comically-oversized magazines, is also used to build hospitals, and roads, and baby formula, and toilet paper. Bitcoin? well, it's used to hold hospital databases for ransom (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1365701.0), which would be darn impractical, albeit not altogether impossible, with plain old fiat.

Ransomeware, kidnappings, illegal internet gambling, ponzi schemes, phony investment schemes,  DNMs -- these are Bitcoin's unique use case scenarios. Tell me why you think governments/ordinary people should welcome it.

This is exactly what i have in mind :D

They won't, they wouldn't want to hold their life savings (black or white) with something as volatile as Bitcoin.


Ultimately, bitcoin would have to lose its anonymity and become much regulated to be accepted by common people/governments and it has already started, nations will either ban its use/buy/sell and/or make it so one has to declare and provide credentials every-time one buys/sells for that is the part they can control.

We all know bitcoin is a perfect way to launder money... It sucks that criminals are using such a good tool as bitcoin for this use. Whenever a criminal gets caught laundering money, the media is all over it
Just so they can write negative stuff about bitcoin, which could lead to decrease in demand.

This. Bitcoin is good for transferring funds a long distance, I don't think it's convenient for laundering funds.

i hear some people and article talk about bitcoin decide become payment method or investement,its will be decided,lest wait. i think its will prevent from money laundering or etc.

BREAKING NEWS - I've just heard that people are using the US dollar for money laundering and the funding of terrorism. Should we have controls over the dollar, or maybe even ban it?

Yes if your government has a poor tracking ability to trace what's going on block chain. I knew a friend that has a transaction in deep web and he still have the btc he earned right now without having worries.

they are banning the "500 euro" cash because of this check the news, so apparently somethign is moving on fiat territory too, at least this is not just a double standard...

Good topic here. This should really be discussed carefully. If I would be the criminal I wouldnt exchange it for fiats at the day bitcoin was sent. I would let it be there for a month or two and maybe circulate it to different wallets so traces will really be minimized.

This is really a problem now and from the past since bitcoin had been knew for that kind of transactions.

Yeah many people use it for money laundering. But they are very smart if they will do that, because the bank sees nothing.
But many people use Bitcoin for them self. They see it as bonus. I like it for the fun and I just have a daily job.

My question is why if cash is used to launder money no one says anything while if BTC is used for it it becomes a problem?
Money has always been laundered so it should surprise that any mean which gives that possibility is used for it.

You are right we should not have to blame bitcoin for money laundering, as it is a problem which is existed from long ago, and the people involved in money laundering are inventing different methods to use the money for crimes, we all should have to work to stop them, and should not have to blame any currency or transaction method for it.

I don't think bitcoin in general is good for money laundry at least without using a mixer, the bitcoins will always be linked to there origin and therefore should not be clean in anyway, even mixers are not the best option to clean them since these too are mostly unclean coins.

People have always laundered money. I don't think it'll be the first time, or stop with bitcoin. One way or another money laundering will remain here.

Dear Karartma1:
Cash is seldom used to launder money, because cash seldom *needs* to be laundered. No one *ever* checks the serial #s on the 10 & 20s I spend. Ever.
One of the few cases where cash would have to be laundered is if it was stolen in a circa 70s bank robbery, and a die pack went off.
The point of laundering money is to make money you made by selling shitty crank & kiddy porn appear legitimate.
And that's where bitcoin comes in.
So now you know :)

I think some people are getting confused. From wiki:

Money laundering is the process of transforming the proceeds of crime into ostensibly legitimate money or other assets


So, money laundering is done to hide the ORIGIN of profits because they're coming from illegal activities. Of course cash has to be laundered sometimes - if somebody made $million$ selling drugs, they probably hope to put it in a bank so they don't get robbed, and they can spend it without looking too suspicious.

Of course there are probably plenty of criminals with suitcases full of cash out there as well.

Bitcoin could be used to launder money - likely by paying for non-existent goods and services to obscure the source of illegal profits.

Just set up a Bitcoin gambling site to launder the money.

Nice name btw - are you suggesting 69Mb blocks? :)

It is a real problem. Many people do it and that is not so good. Everyone must see bitcoin as fun and extra.
I like to make a little bit money with Bitcoin, and I have a daily job. I see Bitcoin as a bonus.

Why "used"?

I mean clearly money laundering is still an important part of btc! It will always be! Why are you implying it's no longer the case?

Yes, it depends on the minds of people not on the type of currency that cases of money laundering occur. There are some people who are mentally good they use safe and legal ways to earn their lives and the people with dull minds use illegal ways to earn according to them they are short cuts.

Money laundering with bitcoin will not be a big problem even in future for growth of bitcoin industry. I think every one should play our rule to make sure it that bitcoin never be used for money laundering. I believe government will take necessary steps as money laundering is older than bitcoin. Bitcoin is not responsible for this in any way.

Yeah but to end btc laundering you would have to control it in a way or another! So if they do btc will have much less advantage suddenly :-/

no,  it will not have any 6 bad impacts on bitcoin, as it is been linked with muc6h bad things like silk road, ransom and much more. Due to which I think that bitcoin have gained much attraction.

http://imgur.com/iqOqd9H
 :)

No it won't be a problem for the bitcoin, every currency is used for money laundering.
So it would not be a problem for the bitcoin the future, its only a little percentage that do it.

>against money laundering
>promotes a mixer
::)

I think that news is spread because of its anonymous transactions, and people want non-anonymous transactions. People want to know that for buying a certain product from where the money has came and who is going to buy a certain product.

i dont think so, fiat is used for bad things either but all people use it and it is not a problem

Fiat is not a problem, because government and banks control fiat. They can print it at will, they can borrow what they dont have it, the can control its inflation, etc. So fiat is good for them.

Banks and governments cant control Bitcoin. So they fight with it, and the simplest way is to scare ppl that cryptocurrencies are only used for illegal things, etc.

Yeha so they will either try to control btc either ban it.

What if governments suddenly launches thousands of miners? ^^

^^Or the Chinese government, you know, just banning BTC & nationalizing the mines... That's what, like, 75% of hashpower, right?

I believe the only problem that this will create and has to some degree is the fact that the government will jump in and start trying to control Bitcoin. 

There are already tons of regulations on exchange sites that make buying Bitcoin with FIAT or vice versa hard to do. 


So, Bitcoin is currently used to launder money and always will, but the affect will not be on Bitcoin itself, but on the structure of exchanges and the future of how it is used...

People can use so many ways for money laundering like Western Union, online payment processors, even legal banks.
If someone decide to start legal action against bitcoin, it will be because bitcoin is not regulated, no government control, no taxis etc not because of money laundering.
It's just my opinion any way but it's obvious that already a lot people, banks, politicians etc. don't like bitcoin because they can't control BTC, not because of money laundering.

Bitcoin "used"? It never did. The users of Bitcoin are the ones that did that. As far as I'm concerned Bitcoin is only money. Money during anytime can be utilized for money laundering.

It is always a problem. I think that you cant solve. And they are very smart to use Bitcoin so yeah you can solve the problem.
It will be a bigger problem that if Bitcoin is going to rise soon. Than the value will be much more.

As long as bitcoin has an equivalent monetary value in other currencies, it will be used as a medium for money laundering. And on that note, fiat is heavily used in many illegal transactions. I hope that many people here knows that fact.

It doesn't matter. Bitcoin is money. The Canadian dollar is money. It's all money. Money can be used to do fraudulent illegal things all the time.

If it is controlled, bitcoins would lose their volatility and if I talk about myself, I would not use a crypto currency in place of fiat if it has no advantages at all. I already have a debit and credit card and also have online wallets that help me to make online transactions while I only use bitcoins as I can trade with them else there is no other reason.

Money laundering can happen with a Government controlled crypto currency as well just like it happens with stolen credit cards and debit cards. It has nothing to do with bitcoin ecosystem.

Bitcoin can be misused easily like fiat as well and it doesn't make bitcoins look bad for just these reasons. Actually bitcoin is not a reason for getting misused in money laundering but we, the human are the actual reason.

its very dificult to use bitcoins in money laundring unless you have any intention of exchanging to fait in sometime!!

i think it can turn into a problem but not a huge one, the government will only tighten the trades done with with turning bitcoin into cash and vise versa in large scales to watch for money laundering, that is what they surely do right now too.

However I agree that the authorities have got yet another excuse to prove bitcoins are only used for money laundering and illegal purposes. If this trend would end for God's sake, that would be great.

But the people here are talking about the transaction of that currency, according to them if we transact other currency online , it will show our details that from whom and where the amount has been transferred while the transaction of bitcoin is anonymous and the criminals are using it for illegal purposes.

See those ads in signatures, like the one in yours? That's why this thread exists -- so people could spam for the sake of a few satoshis. Most posters here have no idea what money laundering is, possibly because Google Translate has failed them.

Argument of Bitcoin being great as a medium for money laundering is totally off. It is like saying that USD or EURO can't be and aren't used for that purpose.
Bitcoin can be used as a currency, which means it can be used in the same way as traditional money - laundering is unfortunately one of these 'unwanted' features.

See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317658.msg13964212#msg13964212

It's hard to get money out of China. I think the reason the Chinese are supporting Bitcoin so feverishly is because they are using it to launder money. They are probably sending money out of China using Bitcoin.

Caveat: no nearly-anonymous USD or EURO exchanges; no way to send billions of USD or EURO, anywhere in the world, anonymously, for $.04 :)

Well its already a problem just like things on deepweb payments there are made using bitcoin due to its anonymity but that's the thing why bitcoin is so special and how its price go up due time..

More or less. You can still exchange huge amount anonymously with things like Kraken. 2k$ every day is still a lot of money without ID, especially if you have a dozen of account!