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Terror supporter Abby Martin of R.T. gets hot under collar about Israel threatening to kill R.T. journalists (and other war crimes).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMFAfQJKlAM

What makes her a "terror supporter"?

She said that's how Israel described her.

Working for Rusian Goverment?

That chick is bat-shit crazy.

The fact that RT is state funded socialist propaganda tool makes anything they report suspect. I would encourage anyone who watches it do your own fact verification of anything 'reported' there.

Absolutely, as you would with BBC, NPR, CNN, FOXABCBS, et al.

So what did Abby say in this report that was not factual?

The entire premise of apartheid and it being perpetrated by israel is false.

If palestine is a state, then it should be able to control it's population to an extent... at least enough to stop them from launching rockets into israel - if they can't then israel is legally allowed (under international law) to invade/bomb or otherwise use war to prevent further attacks.

In my personal opinion palestine isn't a nation, has never been a state and never had a government.

I guess what it comes down to is that corrupt liberal journalists like this woman... can't have it both ways. Either palestine is a nation (in which case it isn't aparteid)... or palestine isn't a nation in which case missles being launched isn't an act of war it's an act of terrorism.

I see your point.  It's not that Abby Martin's reporting lacks facts, you dislike her because she presents a political view you dislike.

Like Abby, I'm a Liberal because I advocate liberty, freedom, less government, natural rights, free markets, and self-ownership.

You on the other hand advocate State systems of control including Jewish-only settlements, military checkpoints, discriminatory marriage laws, inequities in infrastructure, unequal legal rights, and State-controlled access to land and resources.  This makes you what is called a National Socialist.

Socialism is evil.  I encourage you to consider both the immorality of it, and the long-term impracticality of it.

"corrupt liberal journalists"

Christ, is it possible for people to have a political argument in these days without it boiling down to "corrupt liberal" and of course the ever-popular opposite 'dumb conservative' statements?

FUD above this line.

Exactly.  Truths are bad if they contradict one's belief system.  That is his mode of mental operation.

You're missing the point as usual.

What you're calling facts are an opinion. I dislike her because she presents opinions as though they were facts.

As I said the determinate point is the question of if palestine is a state and if so, is gaza part of it. Either way, you can't call gaza an "open air prison" and stay credible. If it's a state then it obviously doesn't apply - if it isn't then the definition of prison gives it the lie.

Additionally the "private roads & checkpoints" are on the edge of gaza - to prevent access to israel, not inside gaza. Implying that inside gaza and restricting the movements of the people of gaza... is just wrong.

As I said, I'd encourage anyone taking this so called reporter seriously to consider her bias, and then do your own fact verification.

Marriage laws? LOL I think you're talking about islamic countries. And are you really saying that Israelis are Nazi? Because well that would certainly put you below a certain threshold.

Nono, on the contrary, what I call facts are facts (true statements about observable reality).  What you say are opinions.  And, of course, your dislike for her is logically irrelevant to whether she's right.

But don't let my intervention here get in the way of the good defamation you're absort and engaged in.

I don't claim to belong to any Master Race.  Others do.

I've pointed out a few of the lies she's stated as facts. But lets just address one.

Calling Gaza is an open air prison.

o·pen air
Noun:      A free or unenclosed space outdoors.
Adjective:   Positioned or taking place out of doors.

pris·on/ˈprizən/
Noun:      A building to which people are legally committed as a punishment for crimes they have committed or while awaiting trial.

So the term open-air prison, is to imply a prison area where peoples freedom of movement and rights are restricted.

Which obviously doesn't apply to gaza. Nobodys freedom of movement is being restricted inside gaza... nobodys human rights are being violated or restricted by anyone inside gaza (except of course for muslim oppression of women).

Israel does not allow free movement from gaza into Israel. This is called a border all states have them, and enforce them to various degrees.
Israel has places a trade embargo on weapons and manufacturing that could make weapons because of gaza continually lobbing missles at civilian populations.
 
Israel does not - police gaza, abuse citizens of gaza or interact with them at all... except to secure the border --- and of course military action when the launching gets too steady and starts killing people.



As you can see the term 'open-air prison' is designed to garner sympathy for terrorist activities targeting israel. It's a false term on it's face, being a contradiction be definition and also fails to stand up to scrutiny in this particular case (gaza & israel).

There's no defamation going on here.

The woman is Liberal. She presents her opinions as facts. That is corruption.
Anyone willing to do a little research will see the bias in her 'reporting'.

Stating truth is not defamation.

It's obvious that you'd rather take what she's saying at face value than actually do any sort of independent thinking or research about this topic.

Abby has an opinion show. If you don't like it, then go back to watching Fox News. ;-)
/end thread.

That's part of the definition of "open-air prison" - throw 'em in, and let 'em wander. Just as long as they don't try to leave.

Yeah, well, it's a little different when the other side of that border used to be where you lived, and you've been kicked out. And those missiles go both ways.

Like I said, throw 'em in, and let 'em wander. They get a little too restive, use a little of the boot to calm them down.

Not saying the Palestinians are the good guys here. I don't think there is a "good guys" here, in fact. It's all just fucked.

The short and sweet.


Israeli "My god is better! We are the chosen ones."

Palestinians "No! my god is better we are the chosen ones."

So much death over a belief. 

An imaginary idea that has so many unimaginable consequences.

The problem is simple (No particular order):

1. Palestinians or operators on their land need to stop firing rockets into Israel

2. Israel needs to stop blowing up anything they want when they get attacked.  


It is a vicious cycle of violence and retaliation.  That simple.


Solution: Now this is much more tricky.   First off, Israel at this point does not want Palestinians as full equal voting citizens in Israel.   I don't think a majority of Palestinians would accept those terms either.  The obvious solution is a two-state solution.  Concessions need to be made on both sides.  Both sides and especially the Palestinians need to police and stop these terrorists that are firing rockets so it doesn't give Israel the justified response to blow things up in Palestine.  

Water rights need to be divided and they need a trade agreement so Israel has access to labor and Palestine has access to commerce and the ports.   Jewish people needs a homeland, they have a strong enough identity that justifies it and they do have a legitimate claim to some area in the region surrounding Jerusalem.

One of the areas I am research and will be reading up on who was the actual aggressor of the Arab-Israeli war of 1976.   That would allow me to give an opinion on the Golan heights and "if" Israel should give proper and just compensation for that territory taken during that time of war.

If you are debating anything outside of what I have laid out, you most likely are taking sides and at that point your opinion is compromised regardless if history proves your correct.   Both sides have fault in this matter and do things to intentionally antagonize each other because of this disputed territory.  


I would like constructive comments (ie: name calling will get you no where except discredit your statements) from both sides IF, you have actually read history books on the events of pre-1917 (balfour declaration), 1946 (UN recognition) and 1976 (war).   I would like to know about life in the area leading up to these major events.   That would help me shape my opinion further or guide my research.  I want Books, official documents and academic paper references only.   No blogs or press, they in the most part have taken sides and that doesn't help me or the discussion.

Now lets see what happens in this thread.   Please surprise me, I am taking a leap of faith here.


-D

Israeli: Your Temple is built on the ruins of mine we were here first.
Palestinians: We were here first the Imams, God and all the idiot commentators that would like the Jews dead tells us so.

This main point I take from this is that this is not a conflict that just happened 50 years ago, Jerusalem has been contested land for many many centuries.  Very old beef.

That and in order for the palestinians to claim first habitation it would be their ruins being built upon plus the supporters of theirs are mostly anti-semites looking to carry on the centuries old tradition of killing the Jews at every opportunity they can manufacture.

I am not sure we can use the word anti-semitic in this case.   If you look into what a Semitic person is and how Arabs are Semitic, they would be hating on themselves.    Maybe anti-Zionic or anti-Iraelic would more closely follow your statement.  

Wiki Link about Semitic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic)

If you are so inclined, reading on the history of how Jewish people fit into post-Christ life during the centuries, many times they were used (willing or not, still reading many texts about this) to do certain services that put them in a higher place in society (money changers, pawners and lenders) by the princes and kings.  The problem is that they usually did this "at their pleasure" so if they did something they didn't like or just gain too much wealth, they would come in and hurt or kill them and create populist reasons to get public support while not revealing the nature of the original business relationship between the Jewish people and the monarchs.  

I know the history bud and while true most do not consider Arabs to be semites when using the term as I did referring to Jews if you knew your history or had any common sense you would have known that usage.

I like how firefop invents this magical exclusionary criterion "if you can wander inside the area, the area is not a prison" that is entirely nonsensical.  I guess only solitary confinement in chains qualifies as "prison" to him.  Behehehe.

And I like how you people somehow take the people living in gaza by their own choice as being a prison. BTW this same treatment that supposedly makes them a prisoner is practiced by the Egyptians who also will not allow them to come and go as they please yet not a word on that eh.

I absolutely agree with both 1. and 2. But I find it unlikely to ever happen.

How can a 2 state solution ever be workable when one of the proposed states wants to exterminate the entire population of the other state due to religion? I agree that water rights is a big part of the problem... but while you and I might be able to agree to a fair division and access of land/water I don't really believe that israel and palastine ever will. Because where the incentive to make any concessions when it will only result in more people trying to kill you?

Without restriction of movement or violation of rights - you can't reasonably say that someone is "in prison" - I stand by the veracity of the statement. Since the people of gaza can leave gaza (just not into israel) it isn't any sort of prison. Period.

Actually, they can travel to egypt pretty much at will... but only on foot only and without carrying anything with them (trade goods etc).

The problem with getting out of gaza is really that hamas is unlikely to let you through to the border with egypt, the israel border is much more accessable but as an arab attempting to leave gaza that really isn't much of an option.

No doubt it keeps the conditions disgusting just what the aim is. What I find funny about these whining Jew hating little bitches is this. Somehow the Jew is supposed to be this still meekly accepting their slaughter type. That ship has sailed these Jews today are not going for that shit anymore you kill them they kill you. So sorry about their luck don't whine when the other side does to you what you do to them.

"If you don't like being bombed, you can moooooooooooooove".

"Nice" to hear rape apologist argumentation here.  Apparently, blaming victims for their "choices" never goes out of style.

I can't help wondering why your grasp of writing the English language is sort of sub-standard.  Are you upset when you write this?   Just read what you said aloud.  Is opposition to a countries strategy being a "Jew hating bitch" as you put it?  You seem to marry the two and I have notices any opposition always falls back to the default position that you must hate Jews.  Me personally love all people from all ethnic backgrounds.   Specific bad people or bad groups are what I take issue with, I define bad as people who want to take liberty at the "expense" of another group or person.   In this case, like I stated, both sides have faults and both sides and good points.

Now you above you tried to attack me first by talking to me disrespectfully by calling me "bud", I am not your "bud" at this point, I have name or alias as in this forum. 

Second, you called me out about not knowing my history, first off, if you took time to read what I wrote earlier, you would of learned that I admitted this and that is why I wanted to get "constructive and informative feedback".   So I ask you SAC, what history in your opinion should I be reading, I would like some actually titles so I can read them.   

Also, you telling me it is "common sense" to know "anti-semitic" means Jewish peoples is non-sense because from where I see this debate, the word anti-Semitic came into mainstream knowledge after the Nazi holocaust and that was an atrocious act of genocide.  So when you use that term when we are talking about a "different" conflict, you are playing on people emotions from a previous despicable act to push your point of view.   

That may work on others but not here.   Try again.    So either you step it up and actually explain your position with support facts (ie: link me creditable info) in proper English without your anger and name-calling or continue to be discredited and marginalized. 

The choice is yours SAC

D

About what I expected. Completely ignore who exactly it is who keeps inciting violence there.

http://s8.postimage.org/f3vgcyphh/gaza.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

I think that about sums it up.

Firing missiles back into a civilian population center is hardly "defending yourself." Is Hamas in the wrong? Yes. Does that mean that Israel is in the right? No, no it does not.

First the population that harbors terrorists is nearly as much a part of the problem as the terrorists themselves.

Second; As I've pointed out before,  if it was happening anywhere else (say the border between texas and mexico) the area the attacks were coming from would be leveled and depopulated within a matter of days. Israel has shown great restraint over the years, suffering constant attacks - with only an occasional retaliation. Any other nation would have leveled the area completely and lived without the constant threat.

The cartoon is cute but not reality from what the media reports, even the Israeli ones.   The response from Israel is quite fierce and enduring.    They both have taken the gloves off and hit each other hard.   You just discredit yourself further with cartoons and mis-represented facts. 

Actually we have had attacks on the U.S./Mexico border and because they are our ally and international partner, it is very delicate situation; we don't go into their sovereign territory chasing terrorists (ie: drug cartels in this case).  Try doing some research next time before making false analogies.   

And the civilian deaths are what makes people pissed off enough to become terrorists, repeat ad nauseum.

Incorrect. Hamas wishes to exterminate the jews. It's always been about jihad for islam.

That's a racist statement and doesn't belong on this forum.

Last time I checked hamas isn't a race. Neither is islam.

There are over a billion of them, so what's the difference if you believe it or not?

Those christians are under threat most times with killings common.


Jordan a majority palestinian populated state and part of the original mandate of palestine you people like to go on about but yet conveniently never claimed to be palestinian so you can foist your lie upon the world that they have no state.

Seriously? You can't tell the difference between a religion, a terrorist organization and a race?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that nobody cares about the shit that comes out of you. Islam has not "always been about jihad" you dickweed. There are over a billion members of islam. Troll.

I see you're denying one of the primary tenant of islam is that it commands non-believers be killed and specifically that jews should sought out and killed... If you identify yourself as muslim then I'd suggest you start by actually reading the qur'an before you get all hot and bothered by someone calling it what it is. Seriously, just read it - start at the beginning. Or if you're too lazy to actually study (as I suspect) then you can simply skip to 9:123 where it says "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

But yes, I'm trolling here. Because god forbid that you actually know the scripture of the violent religion that you espouse to be a member of.

There is violence in all the other Abrahamic religions as well. Probably in other religions too. I could list many many pages of them, but this is not the place. This does not make any of them inherently violent. Only atheists eat babies and drink the blood of virgins.  ;)

I think the problem lies not with the people of Palestine or the people of Israel, but with the governments that rule them.  I'm biased, of course, by all the evidence of governments screwing things up everywhere, but here's someone who agrees (http://voluntaryist.com/forthcoming/wipeisraeloff.html) along with some great evidence to back up the position we share.

old news  ???

Yes, did you not see the bright red text that told you this was an old thread?

GOD DAMNIT!

Beaten by a necro! :_; though this thread looked familiar lol :P

Stop your israeli hasbara here

Are you working for the zionazi hasbara?

it s too late for you

and don t try to change the reality

Israel is an apartheid country and should not exist

my ignore list will have his first zionazi today

congratulations fireop

Israel is a terrorist and an apartheid state

this is a fact

so why don t you try to help israelis against anonymous today ?

are anonymous racist?or antisemitic?or worse?

lol your hasbara is not working here

he is not trolling just trying to add some israeli hasbara in the forum that s all

MAI WHY U KEEP NECROING ALL THESE OLD THREADS?

what does it matter how old they are?

indeed

hey what kind of whiner r u ?   LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_IJj7b1RJ8

excellent link. t y , mate !  :-*

abby is f...ing hot