Bitcoin Forum

https://i.imgur.com/DSioeYQ.png

First 224 years of existence: 5.674 trillion dollars
Next 8 Bush years: 4.350 trillion dollars
Next 7 Obama years: 8.126 trillion dollars

Compare what we've done in the last 15 years to what we did in the first 224 years. We've more than tripled in the last 15 years what it took 224 years to accumulate in debt.

To be lazy and use stereotypes, democrats spend too much and republicans tax too little. The truth is that both parties spend too much and tax too little. The current war spending is not sustainable. The current tax rates are not sustainable. Social Security and Medicaid are about to explode in expenditures. You simply cannot cut this level of debt by only cutting spending or only raising taxes. It will take substantial efforts on both ends to put things in order, and then it will take disciplined restraint and political will to stay on course over several decades to begin to fix this process.

Frankly, our politicians are not up to the challenge. Their incentive is re-election every 2 or 4 years, and this type of outlook is incompatible with the long-term approach necessary to fix what an utter mess the national finances have become.

this should encourage more, the people to invest in bitcoin, and help growing an alternative way to the plague that was/still is our conventional money system

trusting fiat at present is more dangerous than investing in bitcoin, numerous case of money lost due to banks playing with people money

there was a case of a bank(here) suggesting to an old man to invest in a low risk investment that then is become a heavy risk one, and he lost 100k in euro, he commited suicide by hanging

Not only the debt of the United States. Look around the world. The debts are exploding everywhere. Europe, China, Japan, Russia, Latin America, even in the Arabic states like Saudi Arabia.
There is no way out of this development.

Buy bitcoin and gold.
They are the best vaults to survive the fallout.
People that did not buy bitcoin or gold will turn into ghouls!

The pigs will come for your money, hide it.

...

jaysabi

And those debt numbers are JUST the officially acknowledged US National Debt.  Depending on whose numbers you believe, those debts (inc. unfunded liabilities) could be from $80 trillion to $220 trillion.

If the FED raises rates this month, the interest rates will cause our debts to rise even faster.  Ugh.

*   *   *

callynyan

I don't about non-holders of BTC and gold becoming GHOULS, but point taken.

Both BTC and gold are excellent diversification vs. .gov malfeasance.




EDIT: You got it spazzdla, they are coming for whatever "Easy Money" they can steal.  I cashed in my IRA (a USA pension scheme) in 2008.

Debts everywhere. Sustainable or house of cards?

House of cards.

Unless you are interested in having a cup of coffee costing $30 in the future and realizing that any pay you get now will have very little value in the future, there is no way that countries can maintain a level of sustainable debt.

There is no way it can continue to be propped up for lengthy periods of time.

When a piece of paper has given value that only shrinks over time, there will eventually be many people who will question why it is worth doing anything now.

The shear numbers are of course increasing. But that has more to do with currency inflation than actually borrowing more money. Every major country on the planet has some debt, just like most people in this world have some financial debt. Its life.

IMO what matters is not so much the total debt a country has, but the ratio of debt to GDP. That gives you an idea of how easily a country would actually be able to pay off its debt. In the case of the US, the ratio is estimated between 104-105% which is to say its essentially a 1:1 ratio. The GDP in the United States is about equal to its debt. That's pretty common and not really all that alarming. The ratio for the entire eurozone is about ~94% with some countries well above 100%

Is debt high in the US? Yes certainly. But is it so bad that we need to stop everything and fix it now? No its not. By comparison, Greece who almost defaulted earlier this year, is somewhere north of 180%

http://www.debtclocks.eu/ (http://www.debtclocks.eu/)

This is just not true. National debt of Russia is 15% of GDP, national debt of Saudi Arabia is 8% of GDP.

The US economy no doubt will collapse very soon, it'll probably collapse instantly if China decides to sell all its US bonds on the forex markets.

Both of those countries you just mentioned also have rapidly depleting cash reserves, mostly thanks to the oil crash. They might not have as much debt but they're spending cash rapidly to prop up their economies.

I'll just leave this here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Government_debt_gdp.jpg

http://www.cbr.ru/hd_base/default.aspx?Prtid=mrrf_m

The leftmost column is total reserves of Russian Central Bank. I don't see a rapid decrease there.
 

Yes debt  everywhere,but if to think about all that financial instruments based on debts,derivatives,thatwe even dont know how many trilionsit is.NowEBC QE is not working,no landingin Europe,anysigne of inlation

So if Euro will fail,many economist is predicting that,whatwill happen with all that euro debt derivatives
Will be massive sell of before,total crash,look on stock today,all in reds,over2%on all major indexes
only btc express is moving up.What is going on,itis not fear before Fed

The link you posted shows a drop in international reserves of more than 12% in the last year alone. Thats a pretty significant amount of money to me (More than $50 billion). Here is the same link in English for anybody that doesn't read Russian:

http://www.cbr.ru/eng/hd_base/?Prtid=mrrf_m (http://www.cbr.ru/eng/hd_base/?Prtid=mrrf_m)

It's just a side effect of printing money, relax  :)

Well, it's what the debt actually is at present. Unfunded liabilities are not current debts, they are future debts. The law mandating their payment could change, or the demographics underlying their calculation could change before they actually need to be paid, or revenue could more than make up the difference by the time they are incurred in which case they wouldn't add to the debt at all. In any case, I didn't include them in my post because they're speculative. The debt numbers posted are the Treasury's numbers of debt currently incurred, but you're right that you shouldn't ignore the looming crisis unfunded liabilities pose, which is exactly what every politician is presently doing.

Debt economy crash begin

http://carlicahn.com/ (http://carlicahn.com/)

The Securities and Exchange Commission agreed today to issue a proposed rule governing ETFs' use of derivatives -- a type of unregulated trading contract that's used to bet on an underlying asset such as a stock index or commodity. Such products include so-called leveraged ETFs, which use derivatives to multiply returns. One example is the Direxion Daily Emerging Markets Bull 3x Shares, an ETF that employs derivative contracts with such Wall Street firms as Citigroup (C - Get Report) , Deutsche Bank, and Bank of America Merrill Lynch (BAC - Get Report)

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13394908/1/like-icahn-sec-sees-danger-ahead-in-these-risky-etfs.html (http://www.thestreet.com/story/13394908/1/like-icahn-sec-sees-danger-ahead-in-these-risky-etfs.html)

China sell offi nothing compare to that,hold your btc

Taking a snapshot at any individual moment isn't as useful as identifying the overall trend. In the past 15 years, debt:GDP ratio has risen 147% (from under 45% to over 110%).

                             GDP                        Debt (FYE)                Ratio
Dec 31, 2014   16.15 trillion                       17.82                  110.34%
Dec 31, 2013   15.76 trillion                       16.74                  106.22%
Dec 31, 2012   15.38 trillion                       16.07                  104.48%
Dec 31, 2011   15.19 trillion                       14.79                   97.37%
Dec 31, 2010   14.94 trillion                       13.56                   90.76%
Dec 31, 2009   14.54 trillion                       11.91                   81.91%
Dec 31, 2008   14.58 trillion                       10.02                   68.72%
Dec 31, 2007   14.99 trillion                        9.01                    60.11%
Dec 31, 2006   14.72 trillion                        8.51                    57.81%
Dec 31, 2005   14.37 trillion                        7.93                    55.18%
Dec 31, 2004   13.95 trillion                        7.38                    52.90%
Dec 31, 2003   13.53 trillion                        6.79                    50.18%
Dec 31, 2002   12.96 trillion                        6.23                    48.08%
Dec 31, 2001   12.71 trillion                        5.81                    45.71%
Dec 31, 2000   12.68 trillion                        5.68                    44.79%

Is a 110% ratio problematic? That single data point alone doesn't say. But in light of the trend (we were under 45% 15 years ago) and with medicare and social security expenses about to start exploding with the retiring baby boomers, yeah, it absolutely is crucial we address this now. We haven't at all over the last 15 years, despite knowing this looming crisis was coming, and we did nothing. We don't have the luxury of not acting anymore, or hoping that we can economic-growth our way out of this. We can't.

Exactly. In healthy economy, budget deficit during recession periods is compensated by proficit during expansion periods. If government has persistent deficit, exhausts reserves and continues to accumulate the debt for many years in a row, it is not a recession, it is a depression. All so called "wealthy" countries are in a state of depression right now. Their governments increase dept to hide pathological economical problems. By doing this, they are just shifting a collapse to the future. This can not last for long.

Pretty much the entire world is in some form of depression right now, US and Russia included. Russia's economy is collapsing, 4% GDP recession each of the last 2 quarters. The Ruble is down by nearly 50% since this time last year. Countries like the US are borrowing money to cover budget shortfalls, while countries like Russia are spending assets to do the same. Its just a difference in philosophy.

Look at those numbers you posted a little closer. From 2000 to 2007 it rose 16% in the US. In 2008 the US economy took a nose dive, and it rose 8%. Then an additional 13% in 2009, followed by 9% in 2010. So in 3 years from 2007-2010 the US increased its debt to GDP ratio at more than double the rate of the previous 7-8 years. The government was borrowing money to cover itself until things stabilized and they're able to pay it down. Now that the economy is turning around the budget is becoming a big political topic here in the US and I expect something will be done about it soon.

A forever expanding money supply and forever expanding debt, never be able to payback, thus everyone have some incentive to work. Debt is similar to dream, the ultimate incentive to work

The debt rises much faster than the GDP. It means those debts are not sustainable. That happened in Greece and a few other countries. The debt laden economy is not the way to go.

I don't share this optimism. When republicans control things, they insist on tax cuts because the deficit is small. This makes absolutely no sense. If there is any deficit at all, it means the government isn't taking in enough revenue to cover its expenses. So tax cuts are the last thing it needs. It is always promised that tax cuts will improve the economy and bring in more revenue than the cuts cost, but this has never proven out. I fully expect that whatever party is in control after the next election, the deficit spending will continue, and republicans will talk about cutting taxes, regardless of whether they are in the majority or minority position.

well actually gold is better I think although bitcoin can be considered gold, gold represents for the value of currency as well as has physical value so buying gold should be better than bitcoin I think

Any state debt can be paid by taxes from all country people, simply just making taxes higher. In this case US debt looks like quite high - so I think US government have already plan what to do.  ;) 

They can raise taxes and implement a negative interest rate.
When they do that, commodity and basic necessity product prices will skyrocket.
You can only pull the plug of the US Dollar, there is no cure for debtus-inflatus.

They cannot impose unlimited taxes to the ppl without actually stimulating the economy. Otherwise the economy will collapse! U.S. Gov has to move cautiously!

Buy both.  

We have seen that BTC price and gold price, especially lately, do not move in tandem, therefore are both excellent candidates for diversification (my middle name).

Unless one is very wealthy or knows a lot more than I do about computer science (BTC, cryptography, programming, etc.), having 1% to, say, 3% of your net in BTC seems about right.  BTC is very volatile...

But, should BTC jump to well over $1000, then any 1% that you invest there will more than double.  If BTC goes for the moon (over $5000 price), then that little speculation will become very meaningful.

*   *   *

Holding gold (5% - 20%, again depending on circumstances and comfort level) is good too.

Gold may save your financial butt in some SHTF hurricane scenarios too...

The US government should do something to cut the deficit or at least let it rise slower than the GDP rise.

Whole world's in debt!
Only those people who don't have mortgages and don't owe something to banks
have real liberty. Others are modern slaves! ::)

So we are looking at the brink of the house of cards?
anyone could predict when will that occur? i have read and watch some videos out here around 2~3 years ago predicting the fall of the majors
would this become one of those hints?

Problem is when US bubble explode every other country in the world will follow because,
dollar is the spare world carencie and is use to trade oil...
We can see many social unrests, maybe wars..That is not good!

How to overcome this problem?
Why we can't just easy overthrown dollar and use gold standard, and bitcoin as new currency.
Whole dream won't happen, because they have better plans for us..
NWO!

There is no way this debt can ever be paid. At what point do they file for bankruptcy? I don't think replacing the financial system with anything will solve it. There is a storm coming and when it lands it's not going to be pretty.

Economic slavery?
But who asking all that money from you?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4a/79/38/4a7938f89c56b36be34af1eeb54587b7.jpg

Here's what I don't understand.

All new money = debt. All debt comes with interest. Therefore there is not enough money to pay back the debt.

Money supply must be constantly increased to pay back old debt. Money supply can only be increased by going further into debt.

Governments therefore MUST run deficits to keep the money supply expanding so there is enough money to pay back old debts.

So what we are seeing MUST have happened at some point- constant deficits are the only way to keep the system working.

I remember reading somewhere that during Bill Clinton's terms, while there was a government surplus, the Fed were concerned about the effect this was having on the money supply. Government deficits are REQUIRED.

This seems clear as day to me yet it is not widely acknowledged to be so. Am I wrong? Or is everyone else wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8
This is very good video watch and learn!

Dude, people trusted banks when they explained that subprimes were good and that "variable interest rates" didn't really mean variable. You really think people will even think about another way than banks?

yup crypto has been planned for ages the debt bomb was all a big joke

China is screwed

...

If G. E. Griffin is right in his book (The Creature from Jekyll Island, about the Federal Reserve, our nation's central bank), then the Debt was never even meant to be paid!

As the US government has spent way beyond tax receipts, the Fed has bought the Treasury Bonds covering the deficits.  And how did they get the money to buy all of those Treasuries?

They printed it.  Griffin writes at length showing that all of our currency (Federal Reserve Notes) is created when the Fed buys those bonds.  This means that ALL of our "money" is now based on debt.  Pay down the debt, money (Federal Resrve Notes) is destroyed...

It's pretty weird and pretty ugly.  Probably fewer than 1% in our country understand this. 

:(

Not entirely, hasnt china been buying up our precious metals to serve their overpopulated country.

Trying to replace u.s. currency making known world currency like u.s. did to their own as official denomination.

I feel like if anything we`ll just keep kicking the can, by still printing more fiat till and I wont live around to see it.

Eeeeehhh that's nothing. After you learn about the 1.6 quadrillion $ derivative market, you will see that the national debts are like a joke compared to it.

insert thank you gif.

It's like nobody understands how insane it is to have a market exchanging 20 times the amount of goods that actually exist. It always creates a bubble, exactly what happened with the subprimes. The exchange market was 20 times the real one, banks where betting on bet of bet of bet of bets of subprimes. It doesn't work like this...

US will bring whole world to knees when their bubble burst!
And i don't know if anything can be done to stop this madness..

That's why US is no longer the number 1 country in the world unlike few decades ago. They've been printing money at will without anyone backing it unless you consider debt a good backer. The economy is credit-based which should only be temporary but it seems they got fond of it and made it permanent and what made it worse is that they keep on blowing the bubble to make it bigger.

There will be no safe place on planet when global collapse starts.
Bitcoin is very strong tied for dollar right now, and could be collateral?

America can have whatever debt they want as long as they have strong army to protect them, they can print the dollars that they want and pay it easily because dollar printing does not depend on any assests

Roman empire once was also strongest army in the world!
But whole decline in culture and demise of empire starts when society
were became adopt nemoral way of life with lot of spending money on games and exotic things..
Whole that circus we have now in US..

Follow Alex Jones  on youtube and you can hear a lot of good info.
And if you have time you must watch all this documentaries.
The Obama Deception
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
Zeitgeist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbIu8Zeqp0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbvCxMfcKv4

Ofcourse every country have debt. Its not weird.
But now they have made it known, therefore there is now a fuss about.

Well it's a global scam and a ponzi scheme, what did you thought it is?

Bernie Madoff was Mother Teresa compared to the other banksters.


The global debt/asset ratio is more like 2300% if we calculate the derivatives in :D

Every time when bad time comes you can make money if you are good at malversations..
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20160124/COLUMNIST/160129903?Title=Making-money-during-turbulent-times

All countries have debt, but the US is different because
1) Its sheer scale. If the US sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold.
2) The US debt is denominated in its own currency - USD. So technically they can devalue their currency (print more dollars) and repay the debt.

Only as long as partner countries continue to participate in the ponzi scheme. Eventually they will be forced to withdraw.

This is pretty much sums it up.

A Global Scam / Ponzi - since we all know fiat eventually turns the value of zero.

Or similar how we see the zimbawae dollars where you see the crazy 1,000 dollar bills.

When you look at debt statistics over 224 years, you will have to look at other statistics too. For example the historical inflation rate for the same period. http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx The money 224 years ago, buy much less than what the currency <Dollar> is worth today.

You also have to take the US population growth into consideration. The more people you have, the more resources you will need. <Higher unemployment = higher social responsibilities and funding>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

This will spiral down uncontrolled, if some of these other issues are not addressed. ^hmmmmm^

Well I wouldn't call him a saint ^^

But truth is banks are screwing the world, and still people are here whining about terrorism, immigrants and shit like that...

Hang the bankers, then you'll see it'll be far easier.

I don't understand? How china can be screwed they still have a good growth..?
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/gdp-growth-annual

You must be the only person to believe that data lol

Most financial experts agree that official figures coming out of China are a little economical with the truth.

Also where does China's growth come from - Exports.

If the west goes tits up no one will be buying fancy electronic gadgets.

http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/04/15/chinese-economy-shifts-into-lower-gear?videoId=363860709&mod=related&channelName=ousivMolt

Maybe if you think on this, but this is price of suddenly big economic rise years ahead, they have enormus poulation, that can be a problem also..
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/china-population/

i'm not an expert but they producing something cheap low quality, and selling it world wide..
Lots of people buying their product because they don't have US standard! Countries of third world and Europe.

No matter whole world is in economic slavery..
In China people works for few dollars a day.They sleep bunch of them in one room.
How many Americans stayed without place to sleep?
What happens to people savings in US?
EU is in economic and political crisis,war refugees..
CHAOS !

Thy just press some new money this is not something new. So far they always get permission to press new money and so this will keep going on.

Shit! We all will die!

At least the US debt is more or less stable right now, less than 19T.

But for how long?

Lets see how would trump lessen this.

WE KILL MEXICAN! AND CHINESE! NO MORE DEBT!

Stable lol.

You need to check out debtclock -

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Stable. Like stabely going to the moon xD

Yeah, the deficit of the US has really exploded. Imagine 20 years ago und er Clinton the budget was covered, there was no deficit. How long will this last? Not so long any more I guess!

These has got exploded just by the election campaigns that were going on over the united states. This debt does't hit them any time. Even though they are stable within a short term their debt getting vanished off

They cannot change nothing right now bubble is going to burst.
Whole system must be changed from the roots.. And they must bring back Gold standard!
Economic growth will be slower but more secure from banks and their hazardous games of inflation money.

Economic growth shouldn't even be an important parameter. It's totally stupid to create an economy where growth is mandatory! Because the base principle of growth is that it can't go to the infinite and beyond! We have only limited resources ><

A small gem of an article from Jim Sinclair's Mineset demonstrates one example of this debt problem.

What a clear presentation of the increasing debt load, and decreasing wealth, of Americans, pretty scary :o

https://i.imgur.com/1doXndV.png

http://www.jsmineset.com/2016/01/26/29101/

Can fall of US economy create more space for BTC?

Sure, they have a humongous debt, but the problem is that if the countries decide to cash out on the debts (which they absolutely won't) then that will ruin the global economy pretty badly. Why take large amount when you can slowly take advantage of trading for a long amount of time?

Bad scenario would be economic crisis part 2!
When we will have World government i'm tired?

So the debt is impossible to manage already. What now? Worldwide panic or a fast reset and revolution? :D
If the debt is in hands of bankers they should already know what's coming and start packing their bags. Nobody is going to make money out of thin air to pay them back.

Debt is not problem at all. Debt is instrument of slavery!
And if you cannot repay your debt you can lose everything even freedom.
How to overcome this? Who creating this situation?

Debt starts to be a problem when a country has to pay it back not an individual. It can start an unemployment crisis and lead to a wave of bankruptcies.

I think debt is the US in intentional.
From what I understood even if you have money (cash) and a clean record you cannot buy stuff there.
You have to have a loan first and pay it back, thus creating a history that represents the fact that you are indeed the kind of person that is capable to pay a loan back, then you can get a credit card, because without one you can't get internet subscription, energy subscription, you can't rent a place and so on.

The big debt numbers are scary and ultimately no good, however I'm more concerned with the credit drop we saw a year or two ago

They have huge investments in USD now.
They have vested interests in ensuring that the dollar stays strong. They won't rock the boat. :)

Don't worry. There is always an idiot on the boat who will.

The largest portion of U.S. debt, 68 cents for every dollar or about $10 trillion, is owned by individual investors, corporations, state and local governments and, yes, even foreign governments such as China that hold Treasury bills, notes and bonds.To put China's ownership of U.S. debt in perspective, its holding of $1.2 trillion is even larger than the amount owned by American households.

It's always China... I am imagining what would happen if China controls US in the future...

You will see some beautiful colors in New York and California.

https://www.google.com/search?q=communist+party+of+china&client=ubuntu&hs=Rj0&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm6uz3-M3KAhVCdR4KHUN9BwEQ_AUICCgC&biw=1237&bih=657

:))

Edit: And be sure these ugly colors will go to hell:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8B+%D1%84%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3&client=ubuntu&hs=Pm0&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCouHP-c3KAhVG6x4KHV3CC68Q_AUIBygB&biw=1237&bih=657#channel=fs&tbm=isch&q=gay+flag

MWHAHAHA!!!

And they will bring this with them there...

https://www.google.com/search?q=communist+party+of+china&client=ubuntu&hs=Rj0&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm6uz3-M3KAhVCdR4KHUN9BwEQ_AUICCgC&biw=1237&bih=657#channel=fs&tbm=isch&q=china+pollution

Sure, pollution is where production is. They would not mind to share some of their pollution with US consumers of Chinese goods for sure.

US is very debt driven society, you need to have good credit to buy anything on credit, but you can't do that until you have credit. whole thing is a mess

this whole country has been run by morons the last 50 years.

The fact that we are in this crazy debt but still help other countries is moronic.
Lets help ourself first and get out of debt.

The fact is that you are not helping other countries. You government wastes your money to establish prostitute dictatorships around the world. This is the reason why common people start to hate you, common Americans. You have to do something about it.

What other country are you helping? Cause here in Europe we'd rather let you go back to your continent please...  >:(

No they are not morons! They are just puppets!
They are just profession actors like Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger..
They just doing what they must! Do you know who runs this world?

The US banks have lent a lot of money to oil companies. Some of these debt will not be repaid due to the low oil price. It might affect the whole banking system.

QE4 is coming soon. USA and EUR and CHN will keep getting deeper and deeper into their own demise no matter how high or low the price of their currencies go, the only way is down, and we are going to be getting closer to the final crash day by day. No amount of QE can save this this flawed system.

If you watch through history always when there is global crisis you can expect some war for dominance for world resources. This time this is oil, Tomorrow we will have war for water..We humans are doomed to failure!

Not sure it will be for water. Water is a problem only for some countries.

But did anyone watched The Big Short? It says that the genius who predicted the subprimes crisis is currently investing only in water related business!

US economy

http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/USA-economy-gif-2825882.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TjBNjc9Bo
I found this one is best for fast learning and understanding how will this debt destroy middle class and if not cured can devastate whole world..

They stop stop pressing money already! What is the end of the line for this crazy debt spiral?

There is no end. There is only hope that the music never stops and nobody is left holding a big pile of debt.  :)

The US Debt Just Exceeded $19 Trillion. This is unbelievable!

No it's not, it will probably double the next years. It is really getting big.

The debt in the United States and elsewhere is what is creating more and more wars and hardship for billions of people around the world. If governments don;'t get their houses in order how do they expect the people to trust them or try to do any better? This is why it is important for our generations and the next to fight for more sustainable living systems. This American dream is now imploding on it's own people.

They need to get back to the 1800's era, the only debt they had then was the civil war debt, which was nothing compared to what they have now.

This is very depressing all that public debt someone will pay in future ..
Your kids and grandsons will suffer the most...

They don't seem to care about their kids and grandsons. They want to live here and now.

I think the US debt shouldn't really be measured in US dollars anymore since the whole thing is a bubble that is destined to burst. If we measure those figures in ounces of silver or gold I think they're pretty much the same.

Yes, you should measure US debt in US dollars, since they borrowed US dollars. They can create those dollars out of air, but they still need to borrow some from those, who can't create them. This is like if you mine bitcoins, you create bitcoins, but you may still want to borrow some to pay your bills. In this case you owe bitcoins, not dollars or gold or whatever.

This is so bad and nobody doing anything?
Everything is ok when happening to someone else.
Whole world will suffer if US bomb explode!
 ???

“Countless people will hate the new world order and will die protesting against it.” – H.G
What people can do against? Police is their, army is there..
We can only spread awareness through people to know who ruling the world.

http://www.euronews.com/2015/06/04/activists-gather-in-munich-to-protest-weekend-g7-summit/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-toronto-g20-riot-fraud-undercover-police-engaged-in-purposeful-provocation/19928

Nah it's ok bro.

US debt is own mainly by China.
US can erase debt at any moment just by printing 100 000$ bills and calling them 1$' bills. Suddenly debt is divided by 100 000.

Only China will suffer xD

Nope whole world will be affected as it was before.
Problem is not only US , EU also have very bad economic situations GREECE was just a start!
China will only take the lead if US fall.
China have different problems with population growth.

Yeah but you forget something.

See in our peaceful world, people tend to think that money is power.
What they forget, is that money isn't power, military power is power.

Yes we're in debt, and so?
Imagine tomorrow EU and USA say "ok sorry we don't want to repay, you've earned far enough with the decades of interest we already paid so now we say stop and won't pay anything more".

What would happen?

Hahaha keep dreaming.

The elite are so greedy that they would put people in  labour camps to pay back the debt before that would happen.

Are you unemployed? No problem, off to the gulag with you.

Thats the dark future we are looking ahead to :(

Very possible FEMA camps are ready..
Back to old fashioned communism.

rip usa.
Wonder what that amount is in bitcoin though...
USA WILL GO BANKRUPT EVENTUALLY.. ITS INEVITABLE. (unless we print a bill that's worth 19 trillion and is called a penny lol).

You make a joke of it but they did actually talk about creating a few trillion $ platinum coins.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-13/the-trillion-dollar-platinum-coin-is-back

Oh yeah that's another possibility.
I meant that the country won't go bankrupt, that's for sure, even if it would well... What would happen? Nothing.

But yeah they may totally use the "debt excuse" in order to force the people to die at work.
That's why liberalism and capitalism without control by the state is shit. You can't but see the people having money gathering more and more money and more and more power... What a marvelous system.

Nothing? The US would never be able to borrow again at current rates and the dollar would cease to be the international reserve currency

Yeah for sure. And what would they do with their money? Where would they invest?

And dude what you say is completely false. It's not because everybody know what a ponzi is that nobody invests in a ponzi.

There will always be someone to invest in USA. Just because those who already lent to the USA have already ROI 6 times guy!

All other countries stop exporting to EU and US, a lot of people die from hunger of lack of other goods. And the other countries would also stop repaying which means that a lot of actives in occident (retirement funds, investment funds and so on) would be worth a lot less.

IMO military is dependant on economy, not the opposite.

THe world economy depends to much on that from the VS. The dept is really high but so far that was never a problem to just press more money.

But do you think it should continue this way ?
The US has been printing *a lot* of money the last few years. They are trying to export little by little their debt to the world.
A lot of people are noticing this more and more, if they think it's not profitable anymore (or that holding US dollars is too expensive [because if loses value every year]) the US dollar could crash really fast.

Bah, just got to print a USD2 with this simple calculation that USD2 = 10000000 USD.
Then you print a bit of money and it all goes smooth xD

Yeah sure, and where would they export if they stop exporting to EU and US?

And by the way, EU and US produce enough food for themselves.
Oh sure we would have less Nutella, but die from hunger? I don't think so.
And we wouldn't have Iphone anymore but is it really mandatory?

I'd say it would even clean our way of life a lot. Go back to the basis. Food, energy and internet. That's enough!
It would also completly stop the unemployment in US and EU ;D

Dont rename it, because then people realize that its devalued.

Devalue it, and cut the zeroes, but dont rename the currency, that way you can fool the people continuously.

With the actual consumption of Europe and US I doubt they could produce enough food (I couldn't find any number though), but I guess if habits change and for instance meat consumption lowers it could be possible.

And maybe we even couldn't have internet...
In Europe there is no uranium production and there is not enough oil to keep our cars going, we are highly dependent on importations.
Iphones is just a small anecdote, but we wouldn't have any asphalt, iron, steel, aluminum, rare earths (and a lot of other elements), machinery, textiles and so on.
It would take decades to develop these sectors again, in the meanwhile a lot of people would die and life conditions would decay very quickly.

That's what Brazil did for years, it works for a while, but you can't fool everybody like this forever. After some time people notice fiat money is useless and use other means to store value (gold or silver for instance)

You create confusion and then people decide not to hold your worthless paper.
They would rather hold gold.

Either that or they start to accept and use a more stable foreign currency.
Or they simply switch over to barter again when possible.
Also cigarettes could be used as kind of a currency.

Let's say you have two people.

One has no debt and earns $100,000 a year.

A second doesn't work but has $10MM in debt. They used that money to buy commercial properties that bring in $800,000 a year in income (8% cap rate). They pay a debt rate of 3.5% so after debt payments, they net $450,000 (before tax).

Debt is not inherently a bad thing.

Nobody holds US dollars. People hold:

- land
- houses
- public stock
- bonds
- private equity investments (private stock)
- bank deposits (these are not dollars, they are loans to the bank)
- CDs
- beenie babies

And, in fact, many people are short the US dollar. They bought a house with a mortgage. They spent money they didn't have to buy a house, they borrowed it from a bank.

And by doing so, they went short the dollar. If you have a $500,000 mortgage and a $1MM house, you are short the dollar to the tune of $500,000. You are hoping the value of the dollar goes down over time again your house value. It is a leveraged bet on real estate.

In that situation, they not only have no dollars, they are short (negative) dollars.

Nobody holds dollars. Dollars are not an investment. Dollars are a means of exchange. They are what things are priced in. Thinking about the value of something vs. the value of the dollar doesn't even make sense. A dollar is worth a dollar, year after year. It is not an investment.

Ammm, not really. Remember Zimbabwe when they printed their trillions notes. That didn't help them much.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0251/2392/products/zimbabwe-dollars-four-trillions-set-front.jpeg?v=1375448856

IMO USA is very far from this point actually. They don't print dollars without thinking about how much exactly they should print, that's why the inflation is not as big as in some other countries.

Really?

I thought every year they just have a pretend argument over the debt ceiling then increase it just enough to last them until the following year where they increase the debt ceiling again in a never ending spiral of hopeless unpayable debt.

That's an interesting view on the situation, but a bit incorrect in my opinion.
Right now Oil is negotiated in US dollars, which means that each time Oil is traded they have to convert it to USD. If the seller doesn't need the money right after it he can keep the USD (it will be useful in a future transaction). This creates an artificial offer for USD, thus increasing the price of it. In this case, even if the USD is only a way to exchange value, the currency benefits from it.

Bonds can also be correlated to a currency, for instance a few years ago when Japan was hit by the "Fukushima tsunami" the value of Yen increased simply because companies sold their foreign holdings so they could have cash to pay for damages.

Difference is Zimbabwe debt was in USD whereas USA debt is in... USD ^^

So if they print 10000000000 USD bils they'll just repay it with a few bills. It will automatically decrease the value of the debt in fact =)

You cant just keep printing yourself out of debt with nothing to back the new currency generated.

Ultimately it just waters down the currency value and ends in hyperinflation.

This is not true. Many corruptionists in the world prefer to convert money, which they stole from people, into USD cash. Many poor people in the world, who are robbed by corruptioninsts prefer to save their little money in USD cash. This is a very popular savings asset so far.

Which makes your debt worth nothing.

And most countries can't but USA can as they have the right to do so and their debt value is fixed in USD...

If they do this all the time, people will lose faith in the US dollar and will not accept USD in international trades.

Well sure. But then who to trade with?

Problem being they still have this mother fucker army whcih is the biggest in the world.
So if anyone minds what their economy is doing, they'll have to face their military part, and that'll lay some shit.

Iran is now only accepting euro's in payment for oil,  China and Russia are now making trades directly in Yuan and Ruble bypassing the USD.

Russia/China is launching a SWIFT replacement.

Zimbabwe has dumped the USD for Yuan as a currency.

The USA will lose reserve currency status then your USD will be worth less than toilet paper before you know it due to drowing in debt.



I think if the US decided to start a war with China/Russia it would not end well.

Well f USA crash I don't think it would end well.

I don't see them accepting being out of the international game. They'd rather burn the hell of the planet.

Every country has a turn at being Reserve currency -

https://i.imgur.com/XdhaY8M.png

The US has had they shot and its naturally coming to an end, next will be China.

Lol, cool graph. France was a Reserve currency? I didn't it happened xD
Guess you learn something new in your country everyday!

I read once that there isn't that much money in the whole world as it is the US debt. To whom is the US so in debt? Mars?

Yeah so it means on average they just owe money to themselves. But to be complete your graph should include the debt of the institutions to other countries ^^

Oh Man Now I have to pay more dam Taxes. But good news BTC will always be safe bet with me.

US government owes most of money to several rich clans in USA and in other countries. These clans own US government through this debt. This is not the same as owing money to themselves.  

That graph doesn't show them owing money to themselves, it shows that >75% of the debt they owe is to organizations outside of the US government, and thus they still maintain huge amounts of debt that they can't just "wipe away".

They also show the percentage of debt owed to different countries, if they had to make a graph for every institution there would be more than 100 articles on the graph.

why do people keep repeating this myth? Its a zero sum game...

How i sthis news? Remember a year ago, and 3 years ago when they raised the debt ceiling? It is happening and it will keep on  happening again and again, until they can't raise anymore.
I guess it's a matter of years now.

No, corrupt people do not hold dollars. A bank deposit is not a dollar, it is a loan to a bank. A deposit of dollars in a bank doesn't just sit there. The dollars are lent out by the bank as debt. Nobody "holds dollars". I have the dollars in my wallet, that's it. My holdings are in stocks, bonds, real estate and a variety of other assets. None of those are dollars. The same goes for "corruptioninists", whatever you mean by that.

Reality check:

1. Half of Iran's assets are still frozen by the US and other countries, about $50 billion dollars. Of course they don't want to trade in dollars, Iran's biggest trading partner is Europe. Russia the largest oil trading partner with China. Do you know who the #1 producer of oil in the world is? The United States.

2. SWIFT is an international transfer system that is not run by the US and which doesn't have much to do with the dollar. It is under the law of Belgium, if I remember correctly.

3. Zimbabwe did not dump the US currency at all. China forgave $10s of million in debt if they would also use the Yuan as a currency. Zimbabwe uses the South African rand and dollar as currencies and will continue to along with the yuan.

4. There is zero chance the US dollar will be worth "toilet paper" any time in the future. The US dollar has appreciated against almost all major currencies in the last 5 years including the Euro (1.5 -> 1.1), Japanese Yen (1.2 -> .87), Canadian dollar (1 -> .72), Swiss Franc (1.3 -> 1.01). Against the Yuan it's basically been flat in the last 5 years because the Yuan went up and down. It peaked around .165 dollar/cny and is now .15.

In the last 5 years, the Russian ruble has collapsed against the dollar. From .034 dollar/rub to .01 dollar/rub

Whatever you were reading was written by someone who knows absolutely nothing about money and economics.

Yes, they do. They like cash paper dollars a lot until they launder them. Very, very many other people in the world hold paper dollars. You just don't see all of this from your basement.

Paper dollars do exist. Do you know what they are called? They are M0.

Do you know what M1, M2, M3 and all the rest are?

Now, how much M0 is there in the US? There is about $1.39 trillion dollars.

That's up from 2008:

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/the-value-of-united-states-currency-in-circulation/

That is all the US paper dollars and coins in the world. That's it.

Now, let's talk about assets. How much is all the real estate in the US worth? $14 trillion. How about all the stock? $22 trillion. How about the value of all the bonds? $37 trillion.

US Real estate + US stock + US bonds = 73 trillion

And that's just some of the assets owned by people in the US. The US GDP alone is 18 trillion.

Nobody holds dollars. Now, if you are saying some drug dealers has $20,000 in $100 bills somewhere for some period of time, sure. But in terms of economics and wealth, that is as meaningful as the $140 or so I have in my wallet right now.

that is massive of big debt,it just a bunch of paper,so many papper ;D that thing called "money" i wonder how can US have so many debt,and for what?from where they get that loan?

Say thing is the U.S Government don't care about it at all. We are so much in debt that we can't help, the people that live in the U.S.A. But we have the money to help the others come take are right from us. 

We've catapulted off the cliff and there is no looking back now. The inevitable collapse is going to come of fiat money. Hopefully we will return to a new honest system, whether it be bitcoin, gold and some other basket of commodities, who knows. Anything will be better than the farce we currently are enslaved to.

Better question is how survive this scenario? And what we can see after this collapse?
Probably many people will be at the edge of starvation.
More homeless more sad stories..

 Rest of the world i won't mention same will follow.

"US unemployment rate fell 0.1 percentage points in January 2016 to 4.9%.
The unemployment rate peaked in October 2009 at 10.0% and is now 5.1 "
from: http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/us/

More than 500,000 people homeless in the United States in 2015 but i can't get info about 2016.

And will be worse!

Probably best solution is go back to nature far from city and create small self sufficient communities..
This is going to be only hope for many people i think.
Grown your own food and be more economical don't throw your money on
expensive unnecessary thing today. Save gold and silver and BTCs.
Learn new skills !
http://economicoutlook2015.com/economic-collapse-2015-51  *Maybe they mishit a year but read in any case.

Even doing that might not be enough to be self-suficient.
You still would have to pay taxes and submit to the government's laws and regulations...

Personal bankruptcy proclaimed in agreement with the bank and the court,
and is the protection of those who fell into debt.
The goal is not to sanction the borrower, but he gets a possibility to re-start earning.

I think this also mean he is tax free because of proclamation of bankruptcy.

Everyone has pay taxes no matter what lol.

Its just a matter of what percent can you decrease it to is the real issue. You can see a whole documentary on that google double irish sanwich and how big corps do it.

But for us common folk who has no access to enormous power, yeah smurfing will catch up with you so quick. For those who dont know what smurfing is you can look it up lol.

Ah!

Wanna know what will happen if everything crashes?
People will finallt understand that money is nothing. Just a mean of exchange. They'll understand there is no reason for 5 banks and 4 companies to own the world! We gonna behead them and take back what's rightfully ours.

Ok but can someone explain to me how will bitcoin be used for store value in days after big crash?
Maybe bitcoin also will go down especially those mining farms.
  Without great secure network bitcoin will also be in crisis?

The great thing is that they can't seize your money to pay your banks debts like they did in Malta. A few months ago, I saw the topic of a man who lost 300'000$ because of this.
The big corporations and states didn't want to lose money so they just took the deposits in the bank.
Absolutely outrageous, but there is nothing the individual  can do about it. Just don't repeat the same mistake...

Why do you think there is a global push to move to a cashless society?

The bank bail in laws are already in place, doesnt take a genius to put it all together.

Either a haircut of your cash or a slow erosion through negative interest rates will achieve the same the goal.

There is no global push, nobody can tell people what to do with their money.
Every currency is based on trust. Bitcoin has to win that trust.

What I mean is that people hopefully will understand that the actual economic system is rotten and that if they want to store value they will have to diversify their assets (and that includes bitcoin).

Yes, just think, what can be the future decision of the debt - it is very large sum of money. I think no one even know what to do with this debt  :)

Why would it go down? If the whole economic world crashes, the value will be stored in things that are outside this economical trends, such as btc ;)
Protected from government and banks!

Actualy the government and the banks can decide what you do with your money. Especially as most people own nothing but bank loans...

So when the governments ban cash what are you going to do with your notes?

They are already looking to ban high value USD, GPB and euro notes and that is just the start.

I think you need to do a bit more reading -

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=ssl&ei=IrLEVvTXB9TAaO_LmJAM#q=cashless+society

The problem is that even if the debt is meaningless, it still here and the system is built on it.
If there is a massive revolution in the financial system there will be a lot of instability in the short term. People might die during these times.
The change in the system will not be peaceful.

And by doing so fiat money implicitly loses value.
I know very well that governments want to control as much as possible cash transactions. The thing is each time they do so, people loses interest in cash (and thus cash loses value).
If they continue in this path people will be more inclined to use bitcoin as it's easier to use.

Bitcoin adoption is not an on/off thing, it's progressive.
If the state forbids big cash transactions, some people who used to do it would just switch to bitcoin (easier, no risk to get caught) to do them.

People have right on their money. Still due to the economic system followed over the past people have money and certain value assigned for money. So certain changes need to be done in economic system.

People think they have right on their money.
Whereas in reality they have right on nothing as they don't own money. Banks own money and people have bank credit that's all. If a bank closes you lose all your money.

Money is promise that you will pay some debt.
So if you think you have money you have someone's debt in a pocket.
All that you can do with this is to watch how money losing its value over time through inflation and other hidden taxes.

Just like you are hold sand in your hands! 8)

We have  official US Debt celebration
now is 19 030 024 473 090,85
soon 20  and 104% GPD in fact more that compare  to  PIGS countrys
 

This is going to be very sad i think!
Many are not even aware of this.
They live their little lives spending more than can afford and believe to Government.

 Not in my country, friend!  Our deposits are insured.  I get my money back if bank closes.  100% coverage up to 100k.

Well I don't know where you are, Iceland maybe? Switzerland?

 ...or the United States, Canada, Mexico, Saint Vincent, Caiman Islands, Argentina, Chile, Brazil, Uruguay, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom, Belarus, Latvia, Norway, Russia, Switzerland, Turkey, India, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Thailand, Japan...

Deposit insurance, whether explicit or implicit, exists in effectively all countries that have a banking system though all might not cover 100% and limits will vary.

Hmm... Not if the banks go bankrupt no... Tell that to the Greeks!
It's not possible for the sole reason that banks actually own only 5% of the money they owe you so...

 Hopefully I don't have to tell the Greeks because have read their own banking rules and regulations and don't have more than 100k on deposit per account because if they do, they could take a haircut on anything over 100k (they call that a bail-in).  They are insured to 100k and no, the banks don't have that amount to give everyone at once which is why they instituted bank holidays and daily withdrawal limits (also in the fine print).

To be honest it is getting worse with more people retiring, social security payments are going through the roof and honestly it isn't obtainable.

What are you talking? If we earn the money, we don't have any right on it? Also, whether private or public banks shut down, the customers get their money back and only lose the interest. Even if any bank is in complete debt, it's possible to recover the money from the Reserve Bank and they decide whom they should pay and whom they cannot.

Absolutely not. What you "have" in bank is only a debt and nothing more. If the bank crashes you get nothing...

 You're simply wrong.  Stop spreading FuD.

The EU sets requirements that insured deposits must be accessible for depositors within a specified time frame. Under EU rules, payout deadlines must be gradually reduced from 20 working days presently, to 7 working days as of January 1, 2024.  The insured amount is currently €100,000.

 In the USA, no depositor has ever lost a penny of insured deposits since the FDIC was created in 1933.

 Many countries have deposit insurance schemes.  Look it up man!

That means nothing. What's insured is indeed any account under 100k€, but it's insured by a fund having around 0.8% of the bank funds and only in 2024 not right now!
"The Deposit Insurance Fund would be equivalent to 0.8% of the covered deposits of all banks in the Banking Union by 2024."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-15-6153_fr.htm

This is no FUD man, if one small bank sinks no problem normally, the money should be found. But you gotta have only one and not too big.

  So it's sUpErFuD?  What are we talking about then, full scale global economic collapse or just the collapse of the European Union?
This is deposit insurance.  The failed bank will be taken over and it's assets liquidated.  What insurance scheme anywhere has to fund 100% of ALL potential liabilities?  None; nowhere and neither is it necessary.

NB. I'm not an actuary but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last month.

Lol! There is a difference in saying it's 100% insured (which is hard I agree) and say that it's 0.8% insured!!!

I don't really call that insurance! Would you say your house is correctly insured if I promise you to repay you 0.8% of its value if it burns down?

I don't really see the FUD here...

Sorry to disappoint you, this is a promise the EU and your country could not hold when it comes to extreme.
100k € times 500 million people are 500,000,000,000,000 € (in words 500 trillion).

Of course! He just doesn't want to understand it. This amount is insured by 0.8%, which means if you own 10 000€ they will repay you... 80€... Cool no?

Brazil already suffers under extreme pensions because the natural resource prices dropped by 80%.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/21/world/americas/brazil-pension-crisis-mounts-as-more-retire-earlier-then-pass-benefits-on.html?_r=0

Same to the industrial countries in some years, but the party goes on as long as is too late.

Let me tell you with 100% certainty that very few Europeans have current accounts with €100,000 in them. 
You are confusing total wealth with bank deposits.  People have money tied up in their home and other investments, savings accounts are not for holding all of your assets especially with interest rates being at all time lows.  There would be no need for such a huge sum were all of the banks in the EU to suddenly fail.  I don't know the exact figure today but in 2010, the average EU person's bank account was around €6800


 

 It IS 100% insured up to 100,000 euros payable in 20 days.  The 0.8% is the amount the insurer must have on-hand in reserve.
Your scenario would have every house insured by my insurer burn down on the same day.  The only way that's going to happen is some sort of cosmic event or "act of god" - in this case, my insurance policy would be nullified as it doesn't cover era-ending asteroids or world war.

Damn insurers ! Always trying to find loopholes to avoid paying back what they owe !  :D

All the time. There should be laws about the Loopholes or we have to fight back. We have paid are money to the insurers and many people get burn in the outcome.

Well you should always read or have a lawyer read the small print for you. You never know what loophole they're hiding just on front of your eyes.

Yeah but if you hire a lawyer you'll have to pay him the equivalent to the potential losses  ;D
When the system is rotten you have no choice but to take part on it ...

I don't agree that the taxes are not enough to pay the debit as US is always known for their financial status. Even increasing taxes is not a long term solution as it will indirectly affect people financially.

I guess they will not bother this. If USA really in a debt, there can not be issues for the citizens as the Government know how to settle their dues by increasing the taxes of the companies rather than the citizens. They never care about future consequences and about people too.

And how will they get the 99.2% in 20 days please? --'

You increase the taxes on companies and a lot of people end up losing their jobs.

This is happening in other countries as well, not just the US. And I don't think it's a good idea.

No, companies don't pay the taxes anyway... It wouldn't do shit to increase taxes.

 Again, you're going to have to define your terms.  There are a number of insurers and they insure more than one bank.  Are you suggesting all banks under one insurer fail at once?  If not, they don't need the other 99.2%; if so, I would imagine they would simply take a loan against the value of the bank until it is liquidated.  In the US, the too-big-to-fail banks which actually weren't insured by the FDIC (or anyone) were bailed out by the govt (read taxpayers).  In Iceland, the investment banks were accidentally insured by their deposit insurance due to negligence (Icebank should not have been operated as a branch of Landsbanki) and ultimately, they defaulted and refused to pay.  Anyway, the country secured a sovereign loan from the IMF and covered all domestic deposits.

According a study of a European institution especially the sourthern states of Europe has banking deposits of more than 100k. I do not claim that every European has more than 100k, but the most have. Europe is the most wealthy region in to world.
But even when the people would have one fifth of the deposit on their banking account (what is very likely) it would still 100 billion.

What country do you live in.  Better yet want bank to you have. 

You are right, it might lead to inflation and finally citizens may have to suffer. Hence, bitcoins here can help a lot but still if users need to spend it, but finally it would only be taxed income.

Inflation is good for debt. It's the best way to decrease the debt! 10% inflation means your debt is relatively less important ^^

Yeah. which means only 4% of what's necessary is insured.

 No.  100% is insured and .8% is held in reserve.
Also those figures from previous poster are wayyyy off.
I'm done wasting my time with this. Look it up.

Well as you wish. It doesn't matter whatever you believe. Fact is here, I don't see where they would find the money in case of bank crash!

 Yep.  There is simply no way to create more money as debt.  You're right.  I give.

The US debt will continue to expand until they switch to a more reliable standard(gold, silver) or cryptocurrency ;D

Ahahah! Great! So the debt will simply be transfered to another bank with higher interests...

 Quite likely the IMF in a serious case, yes.  Did you actually read any of my earlier posts?  I already mentioned that.  As well as the US bailout in which case the taxpayers are on the hook for UNinsured debt.

Pff... Tell this to the Greeks...

Debt is false. There is more debt than actual money!

 Sure.  If I can find one who lost his insured deposit to bank failure, I will mention it.

http://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2015/07/02/when-greek-banks-reopen-will-all-the-money-be-there-the-short-answer/
Here is why you're wrong. It all depends on the ECB nothing more.

 No that is not in the mandate of the ECB and they overstepped their authority