Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Mining => Topic started by: Rob E on December 04, 2012, 10:54:51 PM



Title: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 04, 2012, 10:54:51 PM
Bitcoin depends on miners right. . What if mining became " Illegal." What to do then.  solutions. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on December 04, 2012, 10:56:53 PM
So when the non-existent unified one world government makes mining illegal in all 208? countries on the planet ... how exactly would they enforce it?

Last time I checked growing certain herbs is illegal (in some parts of the world, sometimes, for some reasons) however I am pretty sure people still grow them.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: MineForeman.com on December 04, 2012, 10:57:00 PM
Illegal where?

Mining is spread all over the world, I don't think we actually need a solution.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 04, 2012, 11:15:12 PM
So when the non-existent unified one world government makes mining illegal in all 208? countries on the planet ... how exactly would they enforce it?

Last time I checked growing certain herbs is illegal (in some parts of the world, sometimes, for some reasons) however I am pretty sure people still grow them.
yeh i know.  But in all due respect it would be a lot easier to shut down the miners then the system. .
no ?


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: MineForeman.com on December 04, 2012, 11:19:25 PM
yeh i know.  But in all due respect it would be a lot easier to shut down the miners then the system. .
no ?

The question you have to ask is how?  Sure, the US could make mining illegal but that is just the US, perhaps it could pressure other governments to do the same but not all governments will fall into line (most wont if you ask me).


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 04, 2012, 11:23:03 PM
in order for bitcoin to survive miners need to be protected .  and if you got a rig drawing 2 grand a month . . it's easy picking fairly easy to be discovered ..  unless we all have a payable programe joining in unity -in part to draw bitcoins . .as a unity .. like a lotto. but that means we all need to chip in . That way the source of bitcoin minning could never be shut down. . d'you know what i mean?


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: MineForeman.com on December 04, 2012, 11:29:07 PM
Nope, still don't get you.

How is this treat that will shut down all miners on the globe going to manifest itself?

Its nice playing "what if" scenarios, but they need some sort of credence before you should consider planning to counter them.  If we had to plan for every contingency it would be ridiculous, for example;-

"Could bitcoin suffer a 51% attack from super intelligent aliens working out block solutions in their head?"


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 04, 2012, 11:41:10 PM
drugs or prostitution aren't bit coin. . sad you see them put on one line . . One is actually for good.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 04, 2012, 11:42:42 PM
Nope, still don't get you.

How is this treat that will shut down all miners on the globe going to manifest itself?

Its nice playing "what if" scenarios, but they need some sort of credence before you should consider planning to counter them.  If we had to plan for every contingency it would be ridiculous, for example;-

"Could bitcoin suffer a 51% attack from super intelligent aliens working out block solutions in their head?"
Not a play at all it could be done .  to deny is foolish. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on December 04, 2012, 11:43:51 PM
So when the non-existent unified one world government makes mining illegal in all 208? countries on the planet ... how exactly would they enforce it?

Last time I checked growing certain herbs is illegal (in some parts of the world, sometimes, for some reasons) however I am pretty sure people still grow them.
yeh i know.  But in all due respect it would be a lot easier to shut down the miners then the system. .
no ?

No,

Weed growing is a lot easier to find and shut down, and it would have to be a massive grow for them to take notice.

Most people grow 1-3 plants which is ridiculously hard to find and shut down. You'd be have to be running like 1 Terahashes for them to even notice.

Mining can survive on many smallers nodes, but the marijuana industry relies on large Mexican drug lords that if shut down could heavily stop the flow of weed into the US.

Thats what this so called 'War on Drugs' is about.

Still, how do they differentiate mining traffic with regular internet traffic ?  

Satoshi was a genius to use the concept of mining to grow the currency.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: MineForeman.com on December 04, 2012, 11:48:33 PM
Not a play at all it could be done .  to deny is foolish. .

HOW??????  Not trying to be harsh I promise but at the moment I think my super intelligent aliens are a more credible threat :p .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 12:10:50 AM
So when the non-existent unified one world government makes mining illegal in all 208? countries on the planet ... how exactly would they enforce it?

Last time I checked growing certain herbs is illegal (in some parts of the world, sometimes, for some reasons) however I am pretty sure people still grow them.
yeh i know.  But in all due respect it would be a lot easier to shut down the miners then the system. .
no ?

No,

Weed growing is a lot easier to find and shut down, and it would have to be a massive grow for them to take notice.

Most people grow 1-3 plants which is ridiculously hard to find and shut down. You'd be have to be running like 1 Terahashes for them to even notice.

Mining can survive on many smallers nodes, but the marijuana industry relies on large Mexican drug lords that if shut down could heavily stop the flow of weed into the US.

Thats what this so called 'War on Drugs' is about.

Still, how do they differentiate mining traffic with regular internet traffic ?  

Satoshi was a genius to use the concept of mining to grow the currency.
What does " Bitcoin" to do with " weed " Two are totally distiguishable . what are you on? What both gets you high both are illegal? what?


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 12:17:01 AM
So when the non-existent unified one world government makes mining illegal in all 208? countries on the planet ... how exactly would they enforce it?

Last time I checked growing certain herbs is illegal (in some parts of the world, sometimes, for some reasons) however I am pretty sure people still grow them.
yeh i know.  But in all due respect it would be a lot easier to shut down the miners then the system. .
no ?

No,

Weed growing is a lot easier to find and shut down, and it would have to be a massive grow for them to take notice.

Most people grow 1-3 plants which is ridiculously hard to find and shut down. You'd be have to be running like 1 Terahashes for them to even notice.

Mining can survive on many smallers nodes, but the marijuana industry relies on large Mexican drug lords that if shut down could heavily stop the flow of weed into the US.

Thats what this so called 'War on Drugs' is about.

Still, how do they differentiate mining traffic with regular internet traffic ?  

Satoshi was a genius to use the concept of mining to grow the currency.
Ok so if it's then on  a smaller stake . . couldn't every body take part. .everybody take a part to stake a claim. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
Wat is weird is that you are comparing bitcoin to weed growing .. This isn't  a currency of weed growers . . it's a currency of revolutionists. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on December 05, 2012, 12:32:19 AM
Wat is weird is that you are comparing bitcoin to weed growing .. This isn't  a currency of weed growers . . it's a currency of revolutionists. .

I think your the one who is high lol

The point of the comparison and my response was to ask you: How could the government legally define mining and enforce it in a way it'll be upheld in court.

The weed comparison was in response to your comment


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Ploo on December 05, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
"Could bitcoin suffer a 51% attack from super intelligent aliens working out block solutions in their head?"

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31296640.jpg


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Monster Tent on December 05, 2012, 12:53:59 AM
They would need to ban computers first.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 12:57:44 AM
Wat is weird is that you are comparing bitcoin to weed growing .. This isn't  a currency of weed growers . . it's a currency of revolutionists. .

I think your the one who is high lol

The point of the comparison and my response was to ask you: How could the government legally define mining and enforce it in a way it'll be upheld in court.

The weed comparison was in response to your comment


yeh real  clear . .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 01:01:07 AM
Wat is weird is that you are comparing bitcoin to weed growing .. This isn't  a currency of weed growers . . it's a currency of revolutionists. .

I think your the one who is high lol

The point of the comparison and my response was to ask you: How could the government legally define mining and enforce it in a way it'll be upheld in court.

The weed comparison was in response to your comment

I'm not into difficulties . . weed growing and currencies are two different things  ..

Thank you.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 01:04:40 AM
Yankee noted . . And this guy has two thousand posts.  unbelievable. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Monster Tent on December 05, 2012, 01:07:15 AM
Yankee noted . . And this guy has two thousand posts.  unbelievable. .

No one understands what you are posting.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 01:38:36 AM
Yankee noted . . And this guy has two thousand posts.  unbelievable. .

No one understands what you are posting.
oh i bet there are moderators .lol.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Blazr on December 05, 2012, 02:00:19 AM
Currency and weed have very little in common, but Yankee was trying to point out that even though weed is illegal, its everywhere. It being illegal doesn't stop people from using it, its more popular now than back when it was legal. The same applies if mining was made illegal, it wouldn't stop people from mining.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 02:05:56 AM
Two are totally  distinguishable.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 02:07:39 AM
there is is no significance between bitcoin and weed . . On Any front. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Blazr on December 05, 2012, 02:17:38 AM
Two are totally  distinguishable.

It still applies.

You think that if mining is made illegal, that everybody in the world is going to stop mining?


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 02:20:52 AM
Whose " everybody" the 2 to 20 % supplying us with bit coins. .  ..
we all need to do it .. Everyone. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: BkkCoins on December 05, 2012, 02:30:43 AM
This is hilarious. What if they made alcohol illegal? Oh, been there, done that.
The point people are trying to make is that no solution is needed because enforcement is impossible.
And a best case for enforcement is that it may hinder mining in one country and just push some mining to other countries. And even if huge attempts were made at enforcement miners would just use a secure proxy and send traffic to another country. The traffic for mining is tiny and easily hidden if need be.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: FreeMoney on December 05, 2012, 02:37:49 AM
Oh oh no no, artificially high profits because some people will be scared, oh no, please, no, Mr Politician.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Monster Tent on December 05, 2012, 02:39:10 AM
Currency and weed have very little in common, but Yankee was trying to point out that even though weed is illegal, its everywhere. It being illegal doesn't stop people from using it, its more popular now than back when it was legal. The same applies if mining was made illegal, it wouldn't stop people from mining.

Weed is indeed a currency. I paid a plumber in weed the other day in fact. And a case of beer.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 02:40:13 AM
Two are totally  distinguishable.

It still applies.

You think that if mining is made illegal, that everybody in the world is going to stop mining?
No it doesn't  drugs and a liberal curency don't  compare. . two different fronts . Huge Difference. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 02:44:11 AM
Currency and weed have very little in common, but Yankee was trying to point out that even though weed is illegal, its everywhere. It being illegal doesn't stop people from using it, its more popular now than back when it was legal. The same applies if mining was made illegal, it wouldn't stop people from mining.

Weed is indeed a currency. I paid a plumber in weed the other day in fact. And a case of beer.
Right we're talking an acceptable currency . . not " i know you what do you want what do i have". .  A legal currency for all good.  For a ll .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: foggyb on December 05, 2012, 02:45:56 AM
Attempting to stop bitcoin mining would be more futile than herding cats.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 02:52:39 AM
Whose " everybody" the 2 to 20 % supplying us with bit coins. .  ..
we all need to do it .. Everyone. .

OK, let just look at this situation carefully.

We've got 208 countries in 7 continents. Very few of these countries government know anything about Bitcoin & many of these countries hate each other & will not talk to each other. There is no way they would all make Bitcoin mining illegal, at least one country is going to agree with Bitcoin as a concept and not want to ban it (in the weed example this would be Holland) or just not care, or want to increase tax income by allowing it.

What is more likely than every country banning it is that the US try to create a UN mandate banning Bitcoin mining. This means it would be illegal (controlled) in 193 countries. This is also extremely unlikely & would be heavily disputed & would take years and years to happen.

Its almost more likely that the super intelligent alien theory happens than a mandate coming out banning Bitcoin mining, but lets pretend it happens. How do they even catch anyone doing it? Miners IP's can be obfuscated using TOR, hard drives can be encrypted (in case of a raid by police) power bills can be reduced to nothing using ASIC's & said ASIC's can be manufactured in clandestine factories. How would they even begin to go around catching miners?

If Bitcoin mining was made illegal, I'd estimate less than 10% would stop as its not a morally wrong thing to do & its extremely hard to get caught doing and even harder to prosecute when caught.
It's got Nothing to do with countries " hating " each other what a bogus line  a Deluded line. .You are beyond delusional  . . 80% of humanity wants to get along with each other in a real world  80 would support bitcoin  or  any other " illegal"  currency. . War between any nation is a delusion impinged upon many by a few select elite. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 02:54:12 AM
Attempting to stop bitcoin mining would be more futile than herding cats.
cheers. . But how. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 02:58:41 AM
Yankee noted . . And this guy has two thousand posts.  unbelievable. .

No one understands what you are posting.
Why don't you fkn try me. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Dabs on December 05, 2012, 03:00:59 AM
uh.... most other normal people don't even know what mining is (bitcoin mining). Heck, they don't even know about bitcoin at all.

Then you'd have to inspect every computer for mining software. There are botnets now that do everything that is already illegal, it hasn't stopped those.

If the internet were made illegal, how do you stop it?


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Blazr on December 05, 2012, 03:03:12 AM
It's got Nothing to do with countries " hating " each other what a bogus line  a Deluded line. .You are beyond delusional  . .

I'm the delusional one? :D

Its called international relations. Can you imagine the US trying to convince Iraq to make Bitcoin mining illegal?

Now, compare this whole scenario to the fact that anyone with $50 million can 51% attack Bitcoin and destroy it that way. Which scenario do we worry about?

I personally think I'm much more likely to get struck by lightening than Bitcoin mining being made illegal.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: foggyb on December 05, 2012, 03:04:50 AM
Attempting to stop bitcoin mining would be more futile than herding cats.
cheers. . But how. .

You'd have to declare martial law and have every computing device open to search and seizure.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 03:15:12 AM
no . pf you cuolld just make " mining illegal .

FROM NOW ON ANY DIVERTIONAL CURRENCY CONTRARY TO THE STATE WILL BE MADE ILLEGAL AND BE PUNISHABLE BY DEATH OR LIFE IMPRISONMENT FOR THE GOOD OF THE SURVIVAL OF THE NATION AND SURVIVAL OF ITS CITIZENS . EASY  .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on December 05, 2012, 03:18:13 AM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/26152445.jpg


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 03:19:20 AM
^ is that to me?


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Blazr on December 05, 2012, 03:20:23 AM
FROM NOW ON ANY DIVERTIONAL CURRENCY CONTRARY TO THE STATE WILL BE MADE ILLEGAL AND BE PUNISHABLE BY DEATH OR LIFE IMPRISONMENT FOR THE GOOD OF THE SURVIVAL OF THE NATION AND SURVIVAL OF ITS CITIZENS . EASY  .

Cool. First off, you've just spent a few million getting lawyers to write that & to make sure that it will hold up in court, and second, what about in the UK? That law won't apply there, so now you gotta go work with the UK government as well, and repeat for 208 countries. Would take years.

And then what happens when it goes to court and somebody makes a case that Bitcoins aren't currency, because Bitcoin doesn't fit the current legal definition of a currency (which is true). That will have to be changed to.

Its not just as easy as that.

Also, where will they get all the money to keep all those people in prison? It costs $10,000 a year to keep someone in jail. New budget has to be introduced as well.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 03:26:57 AM
I'm surprized you would let someone else -anyone else call me a "crackehead" as it is contrary to any thing morpheous stood for or the ideoloygy  of the matrix stood for and to use this on me . . is disrespectfull to the Mpth degee.  You have no incling who you you are talking to or what you are using to try to discredit me . . you are scum .. In "Hero" status".


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 03:28:03 AM
FROM NOW ON ANY DIVERTIONAL CURRENCY CONTRARY TO THE STATE WILL BE MADE ILLEGAL AND BE PUNISHABLE BY DEATH OR LIFE IMPRISONMENT FOR THE GOOD OF THE SURVIVAL OF THE NATION AND SURVIVAL OF ITS CITIZENS . EASY  .

Cool. First off, you've just spent a few million getting lawyers to write that & to make sure that it will hold up in court, and second, what about in the UK? That law won't apply there, so now you gotta go work with the UK government as well, and repeat for 208 countries. Would take years.

And then what happens when it goes to court and somebody makes a case that Bitcoins aren't currency, because Bitcoin doesn't fit the current legal definition of a currency (which is true). That will have to be changed to.

Its not just as easy as that.

Also, where will they get all the money to keep all those people in prison? It costs $10,000 a year to keep someone in jail. New budget has to be introduced as well.
No i'ts ok w have nothing in common. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: foggyb on December 05, 2012, 03:35:44 AM
Rob E.

The death penalty? Life in prison? For running a piece of software that does nothing but solve maths?

Think positively.

Drink green tea. Pretend you're on a calm beach.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 05, 2012, 03:45:01 AM
you have no idea  or the future or the politics of this planet . . Do you follow any political financial or wordly events>. If so can i ask which ones?


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: BeetcoinScummer on December 05, 2012, 09:44:04 AM
No, mining could be made illegal but it will never be shut down as long as doing it is worth something. Since when has making something illegal stopped people from doing it if people really wanted to?


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Fjordbit on December 05, 2012, 03:44:28 PM
Mining can easily be done on the darknet. Some pools even have onion websites.

If any Bitcoin activities are made illegal, people will route around them.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: J-Norm on December 05, 2012, 08:24:19 PM
Mining is done offline, and the block can be claimed by anonymous publishing to the network. It would seem that if it was illegal it would be very easy to hide.

They cannot shut down the silk road. Hell, they can't even keep drugs out of prisons. They could make such a law but it would just be another in a series of unenforcable laws.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: mentalove on December 06, 2012, 12:00:48 AM
Bitcoin depends on miners right. . What if mining became " Illegal." What to do then.  solutions. .

Let them try xD


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: DanielleEber on December 06, 2012, 01:46:52 PM
Weed is indeed a currency. I paid a plumber in weed the other day in fact. And a case of beer.

People can and do trade anything for anything.  For example, loaning out tools to a neighbor in return for a future favor moving furniture is a valid trade.  What tends to rise to the level of money is the most easily traded and most accepted good or commodity.  So while your weed & beer exchange was definitely a trade in the economic sense for plumbing services, most people would not say it has risen to the level of money.

Bitcoin balances in the global account book (block chain) is a traded commodity also, but is still working on reaching widespread use as money.  Ease of trade and general acceptability are not there yet, though they have been improving quite rapidly.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Endgame on December 06, 2012, 02:15:00 PM
The likelihood of mining being shut down, or even targeted by governments is extremely low. There are far easier ways to try and take down, or damage bitcoin. Of course, none of them are 'easy' to pull off, but they are all easier than shutting down mining. Some examples: 51% attack, blockchain spamming, targeting the exchanges.


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 08, 2012, 02:14:33 AM
Mining can easily be done on the darknet. Some pools even have onion websites.

If any Bitcoin activities are made illegal, people will route around them.
cheers .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Rob E on December 08, 2012, 02:22:02 AM
Mining is done offline, and the block can be claimed by anonymous publishing to the network. It would seem that if it was illegal it would be very easy to hide.

They cannot shut down the silk road. Hell, they can't even keep drugs out of prisons. They could make such a law but it would just be another in a series of unenforcable laws.
No  but they're dong a pretty god job right now legalizing "bitcoin" throught the " banking system" at the moment. it  means we are just becoming a controlled currency ..by bankers  When I thnk it should jus follow laws of nature . . you care for it it grows . . prosperity . . freedom . . for all. .


Title: Re: Could Mining be shut down.
Post by: Gatorhex on December 08, 2012, 02:55:20 AM
If they blocked the mining pools, mining would just be done solo.

If Microsoft rolled out an update to remove bitcoin people would just use some variant of Linux

As for blocking moving bitcoins around, if they blocked the Bitcoin P2P (Peer to Peer) network protocol, the clients can still communicate over IRC (Internet Relay Chat).

It's not illegal to use an alternative currency (after all that's what PayPal is), but it doesn't have the protection of the law unless it's equated to legal tender somehow.