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Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 32] Post by: EskimoBob on December 15, 2012, 09:22:49 AM Few days ago I listed The ART in LTC-Global.
https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/ART Executive Summary After about 6+ months of research and following the trends on the local ceramics art seen, we have come to the conclusion that the local artist (hobby and freelance) community is in serious need for a flexible access to shop equipment. Especially the more expensive equipment that is way out of reach for most hobby and freelance artist. Our research has shown, that this service is more than welcome and our proposed price range is considered very attractive. Business Description Our plan is to raise the funds, purchase the required equipment and make it available to anyone who needs it on hourly, daily or a space/volume based pricing plans. Some equipment, like smaller electric pottery wheels etc. can be moved to different locations on demand, under daily/weekly rent contracts. Stationary equipments, like large high fire kilns are stationary and are rented out under "volume" based pricing (artist pays for volume of kiln space used). Our business is to help artist to produce their unique works of art and not compete with them as an artist to artist. Products and Services At current prices on the market and huge time delays, we see a lot of opportunities to be a very successful. There is strong growth potential. We are planning to carefully grow by constantly analysing the market needs while responding to it's needs accordingly. For example, some of the stoneware firing styles are almost disappeared form the scene. Not because they are inferior, but because the lack of equipment (old equipment is broken down and never replaced). We are planning to bring some of techniques back by adding the required equipment to our workshop and making it available to a larger community. This will help to keep it profitable and same time open new doors for the local art community. Financial Management Our conservative estimates show that in average, 5% ROI per month is achievable. This is at conservative 55% utilisation on average. We like to take the utilisation up to 75% in 3 months or less. At this rate, equipment is paid for before 70% of the manufacturers warranty is up. We will be publishing our monthly statements in forum and follow typical bookkeeping rules. EDIT: (20.01 11.21 GMT) All numbers are and will be published here http://tinyurl.com/art-stats . If I find a better way to do it, you will be informed. Stockholder Agreement The total issue will be up 250 000 virtual shares @ 1 LTC per share. * Proceeds from the issue will be used to acquire ceramics art studio equipment, materials, parts and cover regular maintenance if required, and cover other similar equipment related expenses * Equipment will be insured against theft or destruction by fire or similar incident. * Any profit (after the expenses) will be shared among the holders of virtual ART shares * Profits realized in fiat currencies are converted to LTC and divided by number of outstanding virtual shares * If the purchased equipment is sold, proceeds (after any expenses) will be divided up between the virtual share holders. * Virtual shares can (but do not have to) be bought back by the issuer. * We will do our best to keep the project profitable but we can not give any guarantees. * This is a start-up project, please be aware that there are risks involved. * If the project fails, ART virtual share issuer nor project manager (persons or legal entity(s) can not be held liable. * Issuer can not be held liable for any of your actions or decisions like selling, trading, destroying or anything else you plan or can imagine doing with your virtual shares. * All sales of ART virtual shares are considered final. * All unsold virtual stock is considered as a "treasury stock", that has no rights for voting nor dividends. * Dividends are paid monthly. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - help artist to produce their unique works of art Post by: EskimoBob on December 15, 2012, 09:23:13 AM 01.07.2013 - June and 6 months (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130947.msg2626730#msg2626730)
03.06.2013 - May statement (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130947.msg2356490#msg2356490) 04.05.2013 - April statement https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130947.msg2027265#msg2027265 02.03.2013 - February statement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130947.msg1576297#msg1576297 27.01.2013 - proposal for secondary offer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130947.msg1483884#msg1483884) - all sold out as of 30.01 18.01.2013 - First equipment order (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130947.msg1462197#msg1462197) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - help artist to produce their unique woks of art Post by: hamdi on December 15, 2012, 09:43:13 AM intersting initiative
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - help artist to produce their unique works of art Post by: Ukyo on December 15, 2012, 10:40:16 AM Voted. +1 Sounds great!
Looks like that put you over. Good Luck. :) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - help artist to produce their unique works of art Post by: EskimoBob on December 15, 2012, 11:40:38 AM Voted. +1 Sounds great! Looks like that put you over. Good Luck. :) Exclellent. Placed first block of 50K shares out for sale. If you are looking for large blocks, please let me know. I do not mind giving a discount but only if you promise not to sell shares for X months in open market. Lets talk details and figure something out. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, renting "hardware" Post by: EskimoBob on December 18, 2012, 10:08:54 AM Hi,
We are going to add a flat rate dividend, and pay it out weekly. I can not make changes to contract in litecoinglobal, so this announcement will have to do. :) Details will follow. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, renting "hardware" Post by: MPOE-PR on December 18, 2012, 02:48:07 PM If the project fails, ART virtual share issuer nor project manager (persons or legal entity(s) can not be held liable. Just for my curiosity, how could the "investor" ascertain whether this project has failed, outside of the share issuer/project manager (dubiously either natural or legal in their nature) saying so? In other words, leaving aside that you don't seem to know whether you're a natural or legal person, what's to stop you from simply saying "sorry, it has failed" a la Obsi in a few months and just hightail? Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, renting "hardware" Post by: usagi on December 18, 2012, 06:09:41 PM Few days ago I listed The ART in LTC-Global. https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/ART Executive Summary After about 6+ months of research and following the trends on the local ceramics art seen, we have come to the conclusion that the local artist (hobby and freelance) community is in serious need for a flexible access to shop equipment. Especially the more expensive equipment that is way out of reach for most hobby and freelance artist. Our research has shown, that this service is more than welcome and our proposed price range is considered very attractive. Business Description Our plan is to raise the funds, purchase the required equipment and make it available to anyone who needs it on hourly, daily or a space/volume based pricing plans. Some equipment, like smaller electric pottery wheels etc. can be moved to different locations on demand, under daily/weekly rent contracts. Stationary equipments, like large high fire kilns are stationary and are rented out under "volume" based pricing (artist pays for volume of kiln space used). Our business is to help artist to produce their unique works of art and not compete with them as an artist to artist. Products and Services At current prices on the market and huge time delays, we see a lot of opportunities to be a very successful. There is strong growth potential. We are planning to carefully grow by constantly analysing the market needs while responding to it's needs accordingly. For example, some of the stoneware firing styles are almost disappeared form the scene. Not because they are inferior, but because the lack of equipment (old equipment is broken down and never replaced). We are planning to bring some of techniques back by adding the required equipment to our workshop and making it available to a larger community. This will help to keep it profitable and same time open new doors for the local art community. Financial Management Our conservative estimates show that in average, 5% ROI per month is achievable. This is at conservative 55% utilisation on average. We like to take the utilisation up to 75% in 3 months or less. At this rate, equipment is paid for before 70% of the manufacturers warranty is up. We will be publishing our monthly statements in forum and follow typical bookkeeping rules. Stockholder Agreement The total issue will be up 250 000 virtual shares @ 1 LTC per share. * Proceeds from the issue will be used to acquire ceramics art studio equipment, materials, parts and cover regular maintenance if required, and cover other similar equipment related expenses * Equipment will be insured against theft or destruction by fire or similar incident. * Any profit (after the expenses) will be shared among the holders of virtual ART shares * Profits realized in fiat currencies are converted to LTC and divided by number of outstanding virtual shares * If the purchased equipment is sold, proceeds (after any expenses) will be divided up between the virtual share holders. * Virtual shares can (but do not have to) be bought back by the issuer. * We will do our best to keep the project profitable but we can not give any guarantees. * This is a start-up project, please be aware that there are risks involved. * If the project fails, ART virtual share issuer nor project manager (persons or legal entity(s) can not be held liable. * Issuer can not be held liable for any of your actions or decisions like selling, trading, destroying or anything else you plan or can imagine doing with your virtual shares. * All sales of ART virtual shares are considered final. * All unsold virtual stock is considered as a "treasury stock", that has no rights for voting nor dividends. * Dividends are paid monthly. Quoting OP for historical preservation in case EskimoBob tries to delete his posts. This is probably a scam. It was outlined here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102010.msg1116762#msg1116762 EskimoBob started this thread because he could not answer the many outstanding scam accusations against him in the old thread. Please note that there is also an outstanding scam accusation against EskimoBob for fraudulently claiming shares of my companies, despite knowing full well he does not have a claim to them as he did not yet return his double payment, and is now more than three weeks late on that explanation in the scam accusation forum. See: I'll try to find out, why my 9 shares are not on that list. Yet one month later, the scammer EskimoBob has abandoned that thread against him too, hoping people would forget he tried to scam me. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, renting "hardware" Post by: DannyM on December 18, 2012, 07:15:21 PM behave.
Title: !DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS! Post by: EskimoBob on December 18, 2012, 07:20:40 PM Usagi, get a dictionary and look up words like "libel" and "slander". This is what you are doing, Oliver.
I think you have more important thing to do than whine here. You managed to piss away about 7-8000? BTC of investors money - go clean up that mess for start. And I have not forgotten how you deleted over 1000 forum posts :) Good bye! And now, the important message of the day is: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS Honestly, just ignore him! Thank you. Title: Re: !DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS! Post by: MPOE-PR on December 19, 2012, 08:23:50 AM Usagi, get a dictionary and look up words like "libel" and "slander". This is what you are doing, Oliver. I think you have more important thing to do than whine here. You managed to piss away about 7-8000? BTC of investors money - go clean up that mess for start. And I have not forgotten how you deleted over 1000 forum posts :) Good bye! And now, the important message of the day is: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS Honestly, just ignore him! Thank you. I've noticed you've conveniently eschewed the hard questions in order to dedicate a dozen lines to the meaningless drivel of usagi. Well done, but still, If the project fails, ART virtual share issuer nor project manager (persons or legal entity(s) can not be held liable. Just for my curiosity, how could the "investor" ascertain whether this project has failed, outside of the share issuer/project manager (dubiously either natural or legal in their nature) saying so? In other words, leaving aside that you don't seem to know whether you're a natural or legal person, what's to stop you from simply saying "sorry, it has failed" a la Obsi in a few months and just hightail? just you. Title: Re: !DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS! Post by: EskimoBob on December 19, 2012, 12:06:02 PM .... I've noticed you've conveniently eschewed the hard questions in order to dedicate a dozen lines to the meaningless drivel of usagi. Well done, but still, If the project fails, ART virtual share issuer nor project manager (persons or legal entity(s) can not be held liable. Just for my curiosity, how could the "investor" ascertain whether this project has failed, outside of the share issuer/project manager (dubiously either natural or legal in their nature) saying so? In other words, leaving aside that you don't seem to know whether you're a natural or legal person, what's to stop you from simply saying "sorry, it has failed" a la Obsi in a few months and just hightail? just you. http://i49.tinypic.com/oiymo4.png Oh, I am sorry dear, I did not notice your post at all. Sorry, that you feelings got hurt and I didn't hear your angry squealing at the first time. Blame the ignore list, you so desperately cling on to. Your question is actually not hard at all. I am going to leave out the crap, you always wrap your "questions" in to, so here we go. Quote "could the "investor" ascertain whether this project has failed" Sure they can. Regular income statements will show, what is going on. At at current stage, only point of failure is the IPO itself. If we do not raise any meaningful sum of coin, there is no point to continue. I have to look for other means to finance this project. Coin will be returned and I will move on, no matter what and complete the workshop and get on with this business. I am sure, that this is not the outcome and you all can be part of something truly different and wonderful. So, lets make it happen! This is a completely unique project for LTC/BTC community to participate in. It has nothing to do with mining, computers, networks etc. This is a perfect project to actually show, that LTC (or BTC) has serious real life use in areas, that have nothing to do with "digital/virtual/pc/cpu/gpu..." related goods and services. When the equipment is ordered, we are going to open up a shop and LTC/BTC will be advertised and payment methods. As you see, the target group is something completely different. And this is really good news for any coin involved. Quote you don't seem to know whether you're a natural or legal person, what's to stop you from simply saying "sorry, it has failed" Speak for yourself, angry old women. :-* Thankfully, your limited understanding of how Co's operate in the real world is not contagious. :) At least I hope not! Same applies to that pompous attitude of yours. I really have to work hard here, not to tell you to just "fuck off troll-girl, next question please" and move on.Answer to your question is actually here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129844.msg1393420#msg1393420 You have to understand that this is not a project where coin is channeled to some real life scam, promising huge returns. This is a long term project that needs the support of the community. I have other plans too and piss that all away, over few thousand EUR, is beyond retarded. One more thing. MPOE-PR, I ask you nicely to move on and find another thread for you to troll. You have nothing of value to contribute to this conversation, you are never going to invest in to this project and your arrogant whining has lost all it entertainment value long time ago. Go and try to evolve and learn how to behave. BTW, lets not forget that your get paid for trolling the forums here. (you call it PR... LOL!) Good riddance fluffygrrl (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129544.msg1385149#msg1385149). Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, renting "hardware" Post by: EskimoBob on December 19, 2012, 04:14:52 PM Quote Hi, Here is the proposed dividend, that will be effective immediately. ART can pay 0,002301 LTC per share, per week. First dividend payment will go out on 22.december, day following the winter solstice. PS! I am not a big fan of paying dividends when there is no profit to be shared. :) Same time, I have to thank you all for letting the coin sit in the account, while waiting for the most important event - purchase of the workshop equipment. Thank you. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, renting "hardware" Post by: Deprived on December 19, 2012, 04:52:37 PM Quote Hi, Here is the proposed dividend, that will be effective immediately. ART can pay 0,002301 LTC per share, per week. First dividend payment will go out on 22.december, day following the winter solstice. PS! I am not a big fan of paying dividends when there is no profit to be shared. :) Same time, I have to thank you all for letting the coin sit in the account, while waiting for the most important event - purchase of the workshop equipment. Thank you. Is this dividend being paid out of company funds or from your own pocket? If from company funds then don't you need to pass a motion to change the contract? That's why shares have voting rights - moment you start selling shares you lose the right to change things yourself without shareholder approval. If from your own pocket then obviously it's a generous gesture - and needs no contract change. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, renting "hardware" Post by: EskimoBob on December 19, 2012, 05:23:17 PM Quote Hi, Here is the proposed dividend, that will be effective immediately. ART can pay 0,002301 LTC per share, per week. First dividend payment will go out on 22.december, day following the winter solstice. PS! I am not a big fan of paying dividends when there is no profit to be shared. :) Same time, I have to thank you all for letting the coin sit in the account, while waiting for the most important event - purchase of the workshop equipment. Thank you. Is this dividend being paid out of company funds or from your own pocket? If from company funds then don't you need to pass a motion to change the contract? That's why shares have voting rights - moment you start selling shares you lose the right to change things yourself without shareholder approval. If from your own pocket then obviously it's a generous gesture - and needs no contract change. I have to pay those form my own pocket for now. Obviously I can not nor do I plan to do this forever. :) This is why getting the coin together and ordering the equipment is really important. But hey, this is only the first week. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, UPDATE: only 6026 shr left! Post by: EskimoBob on December 19, 2012, 10:00:15 PM The one huge trade picked up 42915 shares so we only have 6026 shares left from the fist patch of 50K shares.
Time to start ordering the equipment. YESS! We are moving on! Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, UPDATE: only 6026 shr left! Post by: Deprived on December 19, 2012, 10:32:54 PM Yeah - someone definitely likes your project. Congrats.
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, renting "hardware" Post by: MPOE-PR on December 20, 2012, 09:34:08 AM Is this dividend being paid out of company funds or from your own pocket? This question rests on some presumptions that are squarely outside the intellectual purvey of your average BTC entrepreneur (which EskimoBob isn't by a long shot). As far as most everyone is concerned, company funds = own pocket. What I find most entertaining about this is that given six months you will not be able to substantially distinguish him from usagi. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, UPDATE: only 5720 shr left! Post by: EskimoBob on December 20, 2012, 02:11:27 PM crickets chirping...
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, UPDATE: only 5720 shr left! Post by: EskimoBob on December 20, 2012, 08:32:33 PM EDIT:February 11
Looks like some of the garbage got removed from this thread. Thank you. Please disregard the following: This rubbish, you two have compiled, in all seriousness probably, is almost priceless. I was laughing so hard, that I had tears in my eyes. Good job, you two. My wife never really cares for this crap here but we both laughed until it started to hurt. Yours truly, Tundmatu Sõdur PS! Maybe you 3 trolls can put your ugly heads together and start a comedy club? I am not sure I'll laugh with you, but sure as hell, I'll be laughing at you. If comedy is not your passion, let Mircea Popescu's PR clown prance like a retard and you two bozos can sing on the background... or something like that. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, UPDATE: only 5720 shr left! Post by: EskimoBob on December 20, 2012, 09:18:51 PM I had a very promising meeting today with few local artists. We are going to meet again in about 2 weeks and if everything works out, I am going to order the required hardware and sign up our first first client.
Cheers! PS! Sorry for the trolls, we got here. :) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, UPDATE: first dividend 22.12.20 Post by: EskimoBob on December 22, 2012, 07:51:03 PM https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/ART
Code: 2012-12-22 18:48 Ł 104.083434 45234 COMPLETE Thank you for supporting the project. Enjoy your holidays and be nice to a random person. :) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, UPDATE: all 50K sold Post by: EskimoBob on December 27, 2012, 03:26:14 PM Good news: 50K shares are sold.
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, UPDATE: all 50K sold Post by: EskimoBob on December 30, 2012, 04:58:12 PM Div is going out today, at 18:55 GMT
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio, UPDATE: all 50K sold Post by: EskimoBob on January 04, 2013, 04:00:13 PM Hi
Little update for ya'll. The extended holiday is over and I had 2 meetings today. #1 One of the key persons was missing so no decision was made. We are going to continue next week and hopefully we can close the deal for good. #2 I was in contact with another small shop today and we are going to meet next week (week 02). This is my backup plan :) Cheers! Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio Post by: EskimoBob on January 09, 2013, 03:48:46 PM We are moving forward.
Customer is currently rebuilding his workshop and hopefully I know soon (days), what model I have to order (it's up to ventilation and wiring spec). After that, I'll have the numbers ready - rented what and for how much. Equipment will arrive in about 4 weeks from the day of ordering. I'll try to speed this up unless it will cost us extra. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: EskimoBob on January 14, 2013, 08:18:40 PM Hi, posted some numbers to http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,980.msg5730.html#msg5730
Now, to more exiting news. I received the offers for the equipment and we are going to make a decision tomorrow 15.01.2013. First order is for a mid size high-fire electric kiln. This 5kW puppy runs on 400V and 10A and has a top temperature 1320°C (2408 of of those °F thingies). BTW, liquid lava is only 700-1200°C. We will be working mostly at 1285-1295°C and sometimes above (top temp. for the firing session) This is a German built kiln with a fancy controller - this is exactly what is needed :) I have several offers. When we have selected the final model/seller, I'll post some kiln pr0n for your pleasure. See you at https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/ART Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: gabbynot on January 14, 2013, 08:33:00 PM Where exactly is this, anyway?
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: EskimoBob on January 18, 2013, 12:41:25 PM First, let me post some of that kiln pr0n I promised. :)
The first one is a is a mid size (60 L or 2.118 cubic foot) kiln, that gets us moving forward and start offering custom ceramics firing service to local hobby artists. Good news is, I have some potential clients lined up already so all we need now is this kiln to arrive. Sorry, this is just a catalog image. http://i48.tinypic.com/jugtn7.jpg and if you open a lid... http://i48.tinypic.com/2crksq1.jpg When it arrives and is all set up and ready to go, I'll post some "real" images. (From http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,980.msg5879.html#msg5879) Quote EskimoBob, I am very excited by your news of progress! I am a shareholder and was curious as to whether you intended to continue the small dividends until the equipment was received Thank you for your support. The whole idea of dividends has somehow got warped in BTC/LTC community. :) Dividend is not something that gets paid directly from revenue (In business, revenue or turnover is income that a company receives from its normal business activities, usually from the sale of goods and services to customers. ) Yes, there are trust issues in btc/ltc community and this is probably the main cause, why revenue gets distributed to share holders ASAP. I can see how this works in mining Co's where "produced product" (LTC or BTC) is distributed on weekly bases and some is kept as reserve. There are Co's that raised coin for project X and before this project has earned a single penny, they start paying divs from coin raised in IPO. I am talking about equity (shares) and not about debt (bond, loan). Sure, I love to receive something back ASAP but will this actually increase the value of the Co and it's shares I hold? The short answer is: "No, no at all" Let me me attempt to clarify what is happening with a simple example. NB! We are talking about equity (stock) and not about debt (bond etc)! Lets say that You and I have decided to start a project and we need 100 coins to buy equipment and hire some experts to do something. As a result of this, we have a product we sell and finally we make some profit (total income minus total expenses). Now, when the coin is raised, we have 100 coins and we can say, that this is the equity we have to work with to achieve our goal. For simplicity, lets forget all the other mumbo-jumbo, that can be used to increase the value of this Co on paper. Right. What happens, if you and I pay ourselves a 2 coin dividend BEFORE we have invested the coin to equipment and into all the other stuff, we need to produce a final product, sell it and hopefully make profit? We had 100 to work with, now we have 100-2=98 As you can see, we have decreased our Co value before we have even really started. Our starting capital is lower of what we needed in the first place. What has happened in BTC/LTC community, is that people have mixed up how debt and equity investments work and this keeps causing confusion. If ART was a bond (basically a loan with a huge payment at the end), then monthly payment to bond holders, no matter what really happened, is expected and fixed for the duration of that loan. This is why a typical bonds are categorized as a "fixed income" investments - you are guaranteed a fixed size payment in regular intervals. Every time we take money from ART, and send it back to us (we, the share holders), ART has lost a tiny part of it's value buy giving up a portion of it's start up capital that was raised for acquiring equipment to build a business. Quote ... realize that there may be insufficient funds to both purchase the kiln and provide divvies, but I wanted to ask Sorry, my answer got a bit longer than I expected but I hope this answers your question. since it had been several weeks since the last distribution. Thanks and I look forward to your continued success! Regards, Rustyh17 Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: EskimoBob on January 20, 2013, 11:18:53 AM Someone asked for financial report for the past months.
All numbers are and will be published here http://tinyurl.com/art-stats . If I find a better way to do it, you will be informed. January numbers will be ready around week 06. I need to figure out, can I use kMyMoney to generate meaningful reports and if not, I'll have to try my luck with gnucash in virtualized environment (to keep all that Gnome blahh off my system) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: EskimoBob on January 22, 2013, 04:38:42 PM Another update.
I received a confirmation that our order is processed and the kiln will arrive on week 08 (18-22. Feb. 2013) I have no idea how this can take so damn long but I guess donkeys, horses and boats must be involved. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: usagi on January 22, 2013, 05:38:03 PM Someone asked for financial report for the past months. All numbers are and will be published here http://tinyurl.com/art-stats . If I find a better way to do it, you will be informed. January numbers will be ready around week 06. I need to figure out, can I use kMyMoney to generate meaningful reports and if not, I'll have to try my luck with gnucash in virtualized environment (to keep all that Gnome blahh off my system) It was me, and I changed my vote to yes because you published the financial statement. I am also a shareholder. But there are a few things I don't understand. You've ordered a Kiln and to my knowledge you've sold several mugs (and maybe other things). I don't see any of those listed on your financial statement. My main problem with this is you have stated clearly you will "...be publishing our monthly statements in forum and follow typical bookkeeping rules." Well, thank you for publishing a financial statement, but I don't understand why you haven't followed typical bookkeeping rules. You haven't listed any of the company's assets in your financial report. In fact it appears as if the only assets of the company are litecoins, and the only operation of your company is to trade it's own security. I'm not saying you didn't order a kiln or that you didn't sell any mugs. I'm just asking when you will prepare a proper financial report as you've said you will, which includes all the company's assets including sales and the kiln. I need this in order to calculate a value for your company. Also, I admit it, I have a certain morbid fascination with how you plan to value your company now that you have purchased hardware which is already worth less than what you paid for it (a kiln). It would be humorous to see it listed at purchase price, even though that is what I'd expect anyone to do in any normal situation. Also, I'm just curious, you said "Equipment will be insured against theft or destruction by fire or similar incident." Have you insured the studio against fire and/or theft yet? Again, I am asking because I don't see the insurance cost in the financial statements. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: EskimoBob on January 22, 2013, 08:23:20 PM Someone asked for financial report for the past months. All numbers are and will be published here http://tinyurl.com/art-stats . If I find a better way to do it, you will be informed. January numbers will be ready around week 06. I need to figure out, can I use kMyMoney to generate meaningful reports and if not, I'll have to try my luck with gnucash in virtualized environment (to keep all that Gnome blahh off my system) It was me, and I changed my vote to yes because you published the financial statement. I am also a shareholder. But there are a few things I don't understand. You've ordered a Kiln and to my knowledge you've sold several mugs (and maybe other things). I don't see any of those listed on your financial statement. My main problem with this is you have stated clearly you will "...be publishing our monthly statements in forum and follow typical bookkeeping rules." Well, thank you for publishing a financial statement, but I don't understand why you haven't followed typical bookkeeping rules. You haven't listed any of the company's assets in your financial report. In fact it appears as if the only assets of the company are litecoins, and the only operation of your company is to trade it's own security. As you recall, the idea of how to finance the project has evolved and gone trough two (2) major stages, with several intermediate steps. 1) First, I was going for a crowd funding it and if this works out, we list the stuff acquire and participants in CF will receive a number of virtual shares or tokens. This did not work out as expected because I did not want to wait for unknown amount of time when the CF site was up and running. :) Who bought the mug, got it delivered + promised shares issued in version 2. Thank you, and let me say this again, your trust was important to me! 2) Second stage started, when I realized that OT and CF are out for the now, because those ideas/technologies are way too experimental for now. Litecoinglobal opened and I decided to go for virtual shares in LTC land. I like LTC for multiple reasons and I have supported it from day one. Now, the BTC paid for the mug was converted to LTC and shares sent to participants in stage one. I'm not saying you didn't order a kiln or that you didn't sell any mugs. I'm just asking when you will prepare a proper financial report as you've said you will, which includes all the company's assets including sales and the kiln. I need this in order to calculate a value for your company. Publishing the end of 2012 and weeks 01-03 of 2013 statements, there was no tangible assets. All we had was a "pile" of LTC (see line "LTC received") and that's it. Also, I admit it, I have a certain morbid fascination with how you plan to value your company now that you have purchased hardware which is already worth less than what you paid for it (a kiln). It would be humorous to see it listed at purchase price, even though that is what I'd expect anyone to do in any normal situation. If you have done any book keeping or owned a business in the real world, you must know that all the equipment is added to the books at purchase price. There is nothing humorous about it. BTW, actually EVERYTHING a company buys, will be added to the books at purchase price and not some arbitrary "value" that looks good. Depreciation usually kicks in when equipment arrives and is used. Depreciation will be calculated annually. For equipment like this, 5 years or 20% a year sounds about right. I am going to use straight line method without residual value. So, by the end of the 2013, this kiln has "lost" 1/12 less than 1/5 of it's purchase price and is valued in the books at lower price. If we take good care of it, we can use it for way more than 5 years and I am not surprised, if it's resale value is 35-45% of it's purchase price. Also, I'm just curious, you said "Equipment will be insured against theft or destruction by fire or similar incident." Have you insured the studio against fire and/or theft yet? Again, I am asking because I don't see the insurance cost in the financial statements. Yes, equipment will be insured separately unless it's covered by the studio insurance. I'll find that out in following weeks. I need to get some quotes for this anyways. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 04/05] Post by: EskimoBob on January 27, 2013, 09:47:20 PM There is a need for additional equipment so I like to propose a secondary offering.
Lets make it short and sweet and only available for current shareholders. :) Here is an idea, how to make it happen: this is a preliminary draft Quote I like to invite you to submit bids for the second stage in our project. As you know, first kiln is on it's way and will be here on 8th week. There is a strong demand for additional equipment and we will like to release additional shares, up to 50K, to the market so the equipment can be purchased ASAP. This is a secondary offering and no new shares will be created. Minimum accepted bid will be X.XX?, maximum bid for the current shareholders will be Y.YY <-- or we can do it without max bid All bids below X.XX will be discarded 1) All bids, over 200? shares @ Y.YY LTC per share, will be filled first. If this secondary offering is oversubscribed (total bids received are over 50K shares): - Highest priced bids are filled first at bidders proposed price - Larger order, at the same price, will be filled first - Orders below Y.YY will be reduced (proportionally) until orders at higher price will be filled - Orders @ Y.YY will be reduced (proportionally) until all orders are filled <--- not really sure about that one Reducing orders will require rounding off the number of shares to the closest whole number. Send me your bid in following format: your e-mail; number of shares; price per share NB! You have to be on shareholders list to make a valid bid and remain as shareholder until the end of bidding (02.02.2013 12.10 UTC). If you cancel your bid, you have to pay 15% fee from the bids value. (I think this is fair) Comments are welcome. I like to get started with this ASAP because heavy equipment deliveries take forever. :) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 04/05] Post by: Deprived on January 27, 2013, 11:29:44 PM There is a need for additional equipment so I like to propose a secondary offering. Lets make it short and sweet and only available for current shareholders. :) Here is an idea, how to make it happen: this is a preliminary draft Quote I like to invite you to submit bids for the second stage in our project. As you know, first kiln is on it's way and will be here on 8th week. There is a strong demand for additional equipment and we will like to release additional shares, up to 50K, to the market so the equipment can be purchased ASAP. This is a secondary offering and no new shares will be created. Minimum accepted bid will be X.XX?, maximum bid for the current shareholders will be Y.YY <-- or we can do it without max bid All bids below X.XX will be discarded 1) All bids, over 200? shares @ Y.YY LTC per share, will be filled first. If this secondary offering is oversubscribed (total bids received are over 50K shares): - Highest priced bids are filled first at bidders proposed price - Larger order, at the same price, will be filled first - Orders below Y.YY will be reduced (proportionally) until orders at higher price will be filled - Orders @ Y.YY will be reduced (proportionally) until all orders are filled <--- not really sure about that one Reducing orders will require rounding off the number of shares to the closest whole number. Send me your bid in following format: your e-mail; number of shares; price per share NB! You have to be on shareholders list to make a valid bid and remain as shareholder until the end of bidding (02.02.2013 12.10 UTC). If you cancel your bid, you have to pay 15% fee from the bids value. (I think this is fair) Comments are welcome. I like to get started with this ASAP because heavy equipment deliveries take forever. :) Limiting it to current share-holders is pointless - as anyone can spend 1 LTC and become a share-holder. If you want to give first shot to current investors then you need to restrict what they can bid on based on their current holdings - otherwise it's entirely pointless. So first you'd fill orders up to the number of shares they currently hold, then up to 2* shares they currently hold etc. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 04/05] Post by: EskimoBob on January 28, 2013, 08:20:23 AM ... Limiting it to current share-holders is pointless - as anyone can spend 1 LTC and become a share-holder. If you want to give first shot to current investors then you need to restrict what they can bid on based on their current holdings - otherwise it's entirely pointless. So first you'd fill orders up to the number of shares they currently hold, then up to 2* shares they currently hold etc. Thank you for your input but I must say, I have hard time agreeing with you on this :) Maybe it's too early in the morning ...or is it still too late at night? I really do not see, how limiting bidding to a number of shares you currently hold (or multiplies of) will help ART in placing the secondary offer - bring additional coin to the project. Sure, we can use that to decide who gets what if this offer gets oversubscribed. If this limitation causes sudden price increase, it only helps short term speculators and ART gains almost nothing from that. When shares change hands, investors "right" to bid chances too and coin that can be invested directly to ART, goes actually back to current short term shareholders. Liquidity is good but in this particular case, it will not help ART. Sure, we can hope that short term investors take the coin and place new bids in secondary placement... but they have just decreased the "right" or more like "chance" for biding by selling their existing shares. Looking at this placement from ART's point of view, coin from IPO is already invested to hardware - turned to a tangible asset. So, in context of secondary offer, it's not that important what you bought form fist offer. Size of your bid and price, for the secondary offer, matters and it helps directly ART and you, as a long term shareholder. Cheers. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 04/05] Post by: MPOE-PR on January 28, 2013, 01:16:03 PM So how much is the book value of this thing under par by now?
Title: Re: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 04/05] Post by: gabbynot on January 28, 2013, 01:24:22 PM So how much is the book value of this thing under par by now? It should be up even if he did nothing except convert initial funds to fiat; LTC was around 7.5 cents/coin when the IPO was going on, now it's only around 6.4 cents/coin. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 04/05] Post by: EskimoBob on January 28, 2013, 01:55:41 PM So how much is the book value of this thing under par by now? You have all the data, please dazzle us with all your brilliance :) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 04/05] Post by: Deprived on January 28, 2013, 04:42:12 PM ... Limiting it to current share-holders is pointless - as anyone can spend 1 LTC and become a share-holder. If you want to give first shot to current investors then you need to restrict what they can bid on based on their current holdings - otherwise it's entirely pointless. So first you'd fill orders up to the number of shares they currently hold, then up to 2* shares they currently hold etc. Thank you for your input but I must say, I have hard time agreeing with you on this :) Maybe it's too early in the morning ...or is it still too late at night? I really do not see, how limiting bidding to a number of shares you currently hold (or multiplies of) will help ART in placing the secondary offer - bring additional coin to the project. Sure, we can use that to decide who gets what if this offer gets oversubscribed. If this limitation causes sudden price increase, it only helps short term speculators and ART gains almost nothing from that. When shares change hands, investors "right" to bid chances too and coin that can be invested directly to ART, goes actually back to current short term shareholders. Liquidity is good but in this particular case, it will not help ART. Sure, we can hope that short term investors take the coin and place new bids in secondary placement... but they have just decreased the "right" or more like "chance" for biding by selling their existing shares. Looking at this placement from ART's point of view, coin from IPO is already invested to hardware - turned to a tangible asset. So, in context of secondary offer, it's not that important what you bought form fist offer. Size of your bid and price, for the secondary offer, matters and it helps directly ART and you, as a long term shareholder. Cheers. If you apply that line of reasoning then there's also no point in restricting the new offering to existing shareholders - if more people can bid then you'll get more (and higher) offers. Either make it a public offering or make it rights-restricted (where its a per-share offer). Allowing anyone who pays 1 LTC for a share to bid offers neither the best price (public offering) or rewards early investors. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 04/05] Post by: EskimoBob on January 29, 2013, 10:45:03 PM Good news.
50K shares are all sold, before the open bidding even got started. :) Thank you to all of you who participated. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 05] Post by: EskimoBob on February 02, 2013, 06:32:13 PM Time to publish January reports
Updated January rapports are here: http://tinyurl.com/art-stats (Next time I'll use PDF) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 05] Post by: usagi on February 02, 2013, 09:08:53 PM Time to publish January reports Updated January rapports are here: http://tinyurl.com/art-stats (Next time I'll use PDF) There's a couple of serious problems with your statement. For one, you list "office supplies" as 458 and petty cash at zero. Anyone who has been in an office for any length of time can tell you this sounds off. Can you provide a breakdown of the office equipment please? I'm basically looking for the coffee cups. Second, you appear to be denominating BTC holdings in litecoins, while also denominating your kiln in litecoins as well, yet you have not stabilized the value of these assets by providing an exchange rate. This makes it impossible to value your security. Please peg an exchange rate for this sheet for bitcoins, litecoins, and the currencies you used to buy the kiln. Thirdly I am worried about your bank balances being stated at zero. How on earth did you pay for a kiln, and why do you even bother listing a bank account, if you have no money in it? This doesn't make any sense to me. I would have thought, that if you've paid for insurance, and bought office supplies, you would have had to had petty cash or cash in a bank account. I don't think you walked into the equivalent of home depot and swiped your litecoin wallet into the credit card reader ;-) I'm just saying these statements look, well, ok I'll say it, they don't look real. You said, and I quote the OP, "Our conservative estimates show that in average, 5% ROI per month is achievable. This is at conservative 55% utilisation on average. We like to take the utilisation up to 75% in 3 months or less. At this rate, equipment is paid for before 70% of the manufacturers warranty is up." Can you please tell us if you're on track for this, and the consequences of your apparent failure? It seems to me, if you are unable to live up to your promises and the manufacturer's warranty expires before the equipment is paid for, this will be a very expensive mistake for the people who trusted you with their money. Hmm. Actually I have a suggestion for you. I've hired an accountant to go over my company's books to make sure we don't publish any misleading or inaccurate information. Would you be open to having your books audited by someone impartial (smickles immediately springs to mind)? You said you would "follow typical bookkeeping rules" and this is a somewhat serious divergence from your contractual obligation. Fifth. You paid dividends on litecoinglobal.com. Twice. And these figures do not appear in your statement. It almost appears as if the dividends were paid out of the capital you raised. Please confirm this. Will next dividends be the same per-share or half as much? Thanks. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: EskimoBob on February 02, 2013, 10:25:34 PM Time to publish January reports Updated January rapports are here: http://tinyurl.com/art-stats (Next time I'll use PDF) There's a couple of serious problems with your statement. For one, you list "office supplies" as 458 and petty cash at zero. Anyone who has been in an office for any length of time can tell you this sounds off. Can you provide a breakdown of the office equipment please? I'm basically looking for the coffee cups. Second, you appear to be denominating BTC holdings in litecoins, while also denominating your kiln in litecoins as well, yet you have not stabilized the value of these assets by providing an exchange rate. This makes it impossible to value your security. Please peg an exchange rate for this sheet for bitcoins, litecoins, and the currencies you used to buy the kiln. I had LTC set as base currency for the report. I am actually using EUR as base currency. Some accounts are in LTC or BTC. Exchange rate for the report is is calculated form the closing price of BTC:EUR and LTC:BTC as of 01.31. I'll add those too. Here is the same stuff, without converting it to LTC: Code: Current Assets (EUR) 0.00 As you can see, it can not calculate a total, if multiple currencies are used. Thirdly I am worried about your bank balances being stated at zero. How on earth did you pay for a kiln, and why do you even bother listing a bank account, if you have no money in it? This doesn't make any sense to me. I would have thought, that if you've paid for insurance, and bought office supplies, you would have had to had petty cash or cash in a bank account. I don't think you walked into the equivalent of home depot and swiped your litecoin wallet into the credit card reader ;-) I'm just saying these statements look, well, ok I'll say it, they don't look real. Bank balances will start showing more activity when we are staring to receive money for cervices. You said, and I quote the OP, "Our conservative estimates show that in average, 5% ROI per month is achievable. This is at conservative 55% utilisation on average. We like to take the utilisation up to 75% in 3 months or less. At this rate, equipment is paid for before 70% of the manufacturers warranty is up." Can you please tell us if you're on track for this, and the consequences of your apparent failure? It seems to me, if you are unable to live up to your promises and the manufacturer's warranty expires before the equipment is paid for, this will be a very expensive mistake for the people who trusted you with their money. Hmm. Actually I have a suggestion for you. I've hired an accountant to go over my company's books to make sure we don't publish any misleading or inaccurate information. Would you be open to having your books audited by someone impartial (smickles immediately springs to mind)? You said you would "follow typical bookkeeping rules" and this is a somewhat serious divergence from your contractual obligation. Fifth. You paid dividends on litecoinglobal.com. Twice. And these figures do not appear in your statement. It almost appears as if the dividends were paid out of the capital you raised. Please confirm this. Will next dividends be the same per-share or half as much? Thanks. Gratuity (not dividends) was paid our from my own pocket as a donation I made to ART. It was in the last statement. I will not call those payments dividends because divs are paid out from profit. I am also in the middle of ordering more equipment. Orders are hopefully confirmed by Tuesday and then I'll publish this stuff here too. The end of the February is going to be lots of fun. By the week 8, I need have the shop all set up and ready to go because the equipment will arrive and it's time to start generating income. I am sure, soon I have to give up on KmyMoney. For now, its really simple stuff so no problems. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: usagi on February 02, 2013, 11:24:33 PM Gratuity (not dividends) was paid our from my own pocket as a donation I made to ART. It was in the last statement. I will not call those payments dividends because divs are paid out from profit. I am also in the middle of ordering more equipment. Orders are hopefully confirmed by Tuesday and then I'll publish this stuff here too. The end of the February is going to be lots of fun. By the week 8, I need have the shop all set up and ready to go because the equipment will arrive and it's time to start generating income. I am sure, soon I have to give up on KmyMoney. For now, its really simple stuff so no problems. Sorry to hear about KmyMoney. But it's certainly nice to know you are on top of things. It seems most investors agree, last I checked ART was up over 10%. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: usagi on February 05, 2013, 04:08:44 AM It was me, and I changed my vote to yes because you published the financial statement. I am also a shareholder. You are trusting money to the person which participated in the campaign to destroy your business. I did not know I was arguing in favor of an idiot. Please, next time you are false accused, do not ask for my opinion. As I recall I didn't ask for your opinion, but I did thank you for it. Yes, it's true that EskimoBob participated in an organized campaign to defame me. But that is water under the bridge now. EskimoBob is receiving regular scheduled distributions on his investment along with all my other former shareholders. Further, I own some shares of ART. In short, EskimoBob works for me now, Augustocroppo, and in my books that's the way it should be. I have no qualms about what EskimoBob did so long as he pays for it, one way or another. And a 10% return in a little over a month is fine with me. I've evaluated his business plan and I rather like the little setup he has going. It works like this. Either he makes me rich, or he turns out to be a scammer and I get the last laugh. I could care less either way. I'm sorry you feel I am an idiot Augustocroppo, but if I failed to take advantage of the opportunity EskimoBob presented, I would be a piss-poor investor. As a result I would cordially propose that in the end I turned out to be the better man, and leave it at that. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: EskimoBob on February 05, 2013, 07:16:57 AM Why don't you two delete your unrelated posts. Move those to another thread, if you have to.
Thank you. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: EskimoBob on February 11, 2013, 02:10:37 PM Just a quick update:
We are in week 07 now and all the ordered equipment is still in transit. We are on schedule. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 08] Post by: EskimoBob on February 19, 2013, 05:26:09 PM Kiln has arrived. My goal now is to get it set up as fast as possible. First, I have to get the room ready. Waiting for the landlord to get her ass in gear etc. and then it's electricians turn.
Do not worry, I am not sitting around and picking my nose :) I am constantly looking for potential clients, etc. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 08] Post by: Atruk on February 26, 2013, 09:30:06 AM Kiln has arrived. My goal now is to get it set up as fast as possible. First, I have to get the room ready. Waiting for the landlord to get her ass in gear etc. and then it's electricians turn. Do not worry, I am not sitting around and picking my nose :) I am constantly looking for potential clients, etc. For people who might be interested in renting kiln time with cryptocoins, where roughly might this studio be located? Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 08] Post by: EskimoBob on February 26, 2013, 10:03:11 AM Kiln has arrived. My goal now is to get it set up as fast as possible. First, I have to get the room ready. Waiting for the landlord to get her ass in gear etc. and then it's electricians turn. Do not worry, I am not sitting around and picking my nose :) I am constantly looking for potential clients, etc. For people who might be interested in renting kiln time with cryptocoins, where roughly might this studio be located? Promoting litecoin and bitcoin as a value transfer system is on my list. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: MPOE-PR on February 28, 2013, 05:06:38 PM We are on schedule. Oh look, Bob lives! BFL's next rep! Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: EskimoBob on March 01, 2013, 09:39:03 PM worth Oh look, the village idiot MPOE-We are on schedule. Oh look, Bob lives! BFL's next rep! Lets not forget you are paid troll. Every post you make in this forum, is pure spam. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: MPOE-PR on March 02, 2013, 08:31:44 AM worth Oh look, the village idiot MPOE-We are on schedule. Oh look, Bob lives! BFL's next rep! Lets not forget you are paid troll. Every post you make in this forum, is pure spam. Getting back to the irrelevant point at hand, when's your hardware getting delivered exactly, Josh? Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: usagi on March 02, 2013, 08:55:12 AM worth Oh look, the village idiot MPOE-We are on schedule. Oh look, Bob lives! BFL's next rep! Lets not forget you are paid troll. Every post you make in this forum, is pure spam. Getting back to the irrelevant point at hand, when's your hardware getting delivered exactly, Josh? I'm more interested to know how EskimoBob managed to lose almost 300 bitcoins of his investor's money. The largest bid under .851 is now .5 litecoins, and this is despite the price of litecoins being half what it was when he started. There aren't even 2000 shares on the bid. There is zero buying interest in ART. When you look at those figures in US dollars, it's even worse; EskimoBob lost over $10k of his investor's money. Weird. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on March 02, 2013, 08:56:14 AM worth Oh look, the village idiot MPOE-We are on schedule. Oh look, Bob lives! BFL's next rep! Lets not forget you are paid troll. Every post you make in this forum, is pure spam. Getting back to the irrelevant point at hand, when's your hardware getting delivered exactly, Josh? I'm more interested to know how EskimoBob managed to lose almost 300 bitcoins of his investor's money. The largest bid under .851 is now .5 litecoins, and this is despite the price of litecoins being half what it was when he started. There aren't even 2000 shares on the bid. There is zero buying interest in ART. When you look at those figures in US dollars, it's even worse; EskimoBob lost over $10k of his investor's money. Weird. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: usagi on March 02, 2013, 09:11:30 AM Umm, are you really saying that? ::) Well, it's difficult to peg an exact number of how much money he lost so far, but $10,000 is probably an upper limit considering deprecation on the kiln that hasn't been baked into the cake yet, and stuff like office supplies which will be coming out of the company kitty every month from now on (and, keep in mind, there are no profits because How much did he lose so far? Difficult to say; he IPO'd 105,000 shares, at 1 LTC/share, and 0.005/LTC/BTC and $25/BTC that's $13,000. So let's take a look at the liquidation value: 1. BTC rose to $35, 2. but LTC fell to 0.0022, 3. so at 0.5 LTC/share, if you denominate things in US dollars, ART lost very close to $9,000 in real terms. Actually I can't remember the BTC price he IPO'd at. If it was $20, then he only lost $6,000. But it's some huge number like that. His share price is already down to 0.85 best-case; he's going to have to sell a lot of mugs to make up for the loss. If we try and be nice and say 0.0025/LTC/BTC and 0.85 share price, then ART lost 30% ($4,000). You have to denominate it in USD, or other fiat, because they're buying real world stuff to work with. They don't hold assets in LTC or BTC. So this is pretty much a fact. I think the main reason is because the equipment was late and investors are probably starting to realize that EskimoBob has changed his story a couple of times away from his "four artist friends" towards "I can't wait to set up the kiln and find customers", etc. So this is probably a buying opportunity if there ever was one. Now is the time to pick up cheap shares of ART. If you like EskimoBob's security you can get in now at a deep discount while other investors panic. I'm hoping his kiln arrives soon. He can probably pull himself out of this hole if he sells enough mugs. Please note I may be wrong; EskimoBob is due to release his February Financial report any day now, and we will be able to see how his company has been doing then. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: EskimoBob on March 02, 2013, 05:57:12 PM Umm, are you really saying that? ::) Well, it's difficult to peg an exact number of how much money he lost so far, but $10,000 is probably an upper limit considering deprecation on the kiln that hasn't been baked into the cake yet, and stuff like office supplies which will be coming out of the company kitty every month from now on (and, keep in mind, there are no profits because How much did he lose so far? Difficult to say; he IPO'd 105,000 shares, at 1 LTC/share, and 0.005/LTC/BTC and $25/BTC that's $13,000. So let's take a look at the liquidation value: 1. BTC rose to $35, 2. but LTC fell to 0.0022, 3. so at 0.5 LTC/share, if you denominate things in US dollars, ART lost very close to $9,000 in real terms. Actually I can't remember the BTC price he IPO'd at. If it was $20, then he only lost $6,000. But it's some huge number like that. His share price is already down to 0.85 best-case; he's going to have to sell a lot of mugs to make up for the loss. If we try and be nice and say 0.0025/LTC/BTC and 0.85 share price, then ART lost 30% ($4,000). You have to denominate it in USD, or other fiat, because they're buying real world stuff to work with. They don't hold assets in LTC or BTC. So this is pretty much a fact. I think the main reason is because the equipment was late and investors are probably starting to realize that EskimoBob has changed his story a couple of times away from his "four artist friends" towards "I can't wait to set up the kiln and find customers", etc. So this is probably a buying opportunity if there ever was one. Now is the time to pick up cheap shares of ART. If you like EskimoBob's security you can get in now at a deep discount while other investors panic. I'm hoping his kiln arrives soon. He can probably pull himself out of this hole if he sells enough mugs. Please note I may be wrong; EskimoBob is due to release his February Financial report any day now, and we will be able to see how his company has been doing then. I am going to preserve that fine piece of analysis for the future generations :) PS! I really love that "real world stuff". BTW, it IS! better than imaginary stuff... Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: usagi on March 02, 2013, 06:12:20 PM I am going to preserve that fine piece of analysis for the future generations :) PS! I really love that "real world stuff". BTW, it IS! better than imaginary stuff... Go right ahead. Also make sure you tell them the guy sitting on your bid is me. I'm your biggest fan, EB, but reality is reality and your stock is losing money. Where are February's financials? :0) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: EskimoBob on March 02, 2013, 08:11:17 PM I am going to preserve that fine piece of analysis for the future generations :) PS! I really love that "real world stuff". BTW, it IS! better than imaginary stuff... Go right ahead. Also make sure you tell them the guy sitting on your bid is me. I'm your biggest fan, EB, but reality is reality and your stock is losing money. Where are February's financials? :0) Is that you at 970 shares? Cool :) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 09] Post by: EskimoBob on March 02, 2013, 10:06:06 PM If this statement has becomes unreadable in your e-mail client, please see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130947.0
or http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,980.0.html February statement. One of the most expensive piece of equipment arrived and on time. Room for the kiln was not ready as expected so there is no income generated for the February. While waiting for the workshop rental agreement etc, I decided to go to local business incubator and test out my business model and the idea. I had to apply for the admission by presenting my open art studio idea. Guess what, I passed and I in. This is going to open some really interesting doors for the ART project. Bad news is, our kiln has to spend few more dais in the warehouse before I can move it to our new studio. Here are the financial reports: (see comments at the end of the report) Code: Account Balances by Type (Y to M) (1) There is no depreciation for unused equipment (2) Pottery wheel (3) Income generated from buying back ART share below IPO price. This will be distributed as dividends for February. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [second offer sold out] Post by: usagi on March 03, 2013, 02:25:04 AM Is that you at 970 shares? Cool :) No I sit on top of that. I just placed another order, I'm on the bid and left my previous order up. I'm glad to see that your share price is increasing because of the exchange rate. I guess I was wrong about you losing money. But right that it was time to buy :) I hope I can pick up some cheap shares here! Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on March 06, 2013, 07:46:02 AM Someone went kinda crazy last night in litecoinglobal.com and dumped all sorts of stuff, including ART.
I guess it was not apparent from the statements, that we are still holding a nice amount of BTC and LTC. I know I know, this it *coin blaa blaa blaa make believe world but the harsh reality is, we all are still operating in the fiat based world. My point is - fiat sets prices and *coins do not :) Let me clarify this by a question. If Co operates in fiat wold (like we all actually do) where all the prices, even if presented in *coin, are are actually calculated form fiat, what is the correct currency to use for reporting. Is it fiat or *coin or both? I have reported everything in LTC (we operate in EUR) and plan to keep doing so. Maybe I need to add fiat reports too? BTW, I managed to get the gnucash use LTC, BTC and PPC using this method: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=29884.msg1492068#msg1492068 I am going to use those in parallel for a month or so and then decide. Week 10 update is - moving day. I am going to move the kiln and wheel to a new location and finally get those two to work for us. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: gabbynot on March 08, 2013, 11:13:33 PM So how much of the original IPO proceeds is still in LTC?
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on March 09, 2013, 05:23:58 AM So how much of the original IPO proceeds is still in LTC? Code: .... Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on March 09, 2013, 06:06:37 AM Well we know that the fiat part of assets have more than halved in LTC value and the BTC part have about halved. So it's reasonable to guess currently value of assets/shares is around 3.5-4.5 LTC.
Of course their value in fiat has increased (and their value in BTC decreased by not by so much). But rather obvously the value of shares in LTC has dropped - as income/share will have dropped as well (assuming prices are set in fiat) as well as assets/share. That's one of biggest issues with ALL businesses that have fiat-valued assets and income : if crypto rises then the value of shares falls faster than profit can make up for. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on March 09, 2013, 07:32:29 AM Well we know that the fiat part of assets have more than halved in LTC value and the BTC part have about halved. So it's reasonable to guess currently value of assets/shares is around 3.5-4.5 LTC. Of course their value in fiat has increased (and their value in BTC decreased by not by so much). But rather obvously the value of shares in LTC has dropped - as income/share will have dropped as well (assuming prices are set in fiat) as well as assets/share. That's one of biggest issues with ALL businesses that have fiat-valued assets and income : if crypto rises then the value of shares falls faster than profit can make up for. I agree but we still live on a planet, where fiat's rule and our dear LTC, BTC etc are all just tokens for moving fiat from point A to B :) Nothing wrong with that. Lets say I was "LTC & BTC only" business. Do I pay myself a fixed number of LTC per month as people usually get in fiat? If you paid me 200 LTC about a month ago for a service X, same service will cost you only about 100 LTC this month... because fiat sets the prices for good and services no matter how we look at it. People still get the same pay chek at fixed amount in fiat and not in LTC. Yes, EUR etc have weakened against LTC and BTC massively. In the real world, equipment still cost the same in EUR as it did a month or 3 ago. Do you remember those guys who bought large number of (still!) nonexistent ASIC's for BTC? Ouch... The reserves we have, opened up a new possibilities we did not have before. I can buy more equipment or expand the business if there is demand and opportunity, without the need to increase the number of floated shares. You can say ART went long on crypto coin and has made a nice fat (unrealized) gain if converted to EUR or equipment and tools. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on March 09, 2013, 07:48:21 AM Well we know that the fiat part of assets have more than halved in LTC value and the BTC part have about halved. So it's reasonable to guess currently value of assets/shares is around 3.5-4.5 LTC. Of course their value in fiat has increased (and their value in BTC decreased by not by so much). But rather obvously the value of shares in LTC has dropped - as income/share will have dropped as well (assuming prices are set in fiat) as well as assets/share. That's one of biggest issues with ALL businesses that have fiat-valued assets and income : if crypto rises then the value of shares falls faster than profit can make up for. I agree but we still live on a planet, where fiat's rule and our dear LTC, BTC etc are all just tokens for moving fiat from point A to B :) Nothing wrong with that. Lets say I was "LTC & BTC only" business. Do I pay myself a fixed number of LTC per month as people usually get in fiat? If you paid me 200 LTC about a month ago for a service X, same service will cost you only about 100 LTC this month... because fiat sets the prices for good and services no matter how we look at it. People still get the same pay chek at fixed amount in fiat and not in LTC. Yes, EUR etc have weakened against LTC and BTC massively. In the real world, equipment still cost the same in EUR as it did a month or 3 ago. Do you remember those guys who bought large number of (still!) nonexistent ASIC's for BTC? Ouch... The reserves we have, opened up a new possibilities we did not have before. I can buy more equipment or expand the business if there is demand and opportunity, without the need to increase the number of floated shares. You can say ART went long on crypto coin and has made a nice fat (unrealized) gain if converted to EUR or equipment and tools. I don't disagree with any of that - but none of it alters the fact that investors would have been better off (whether measured in LTC OR fiat) had they just kept the LTC rather than bought your shares (of course there's a decent chance LTC will fall back down fast - in which case that will no longer be the case). And that's what makes a lot of potential investors (myself included) wary of all businesses with signficant fiat assets (less so up to now for LTC investment than BTC - as LTC had previously tended to be pretty stable vs USD). Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: MPOE-PR on March 09, 2013, 01:12:15 PM I don't disagree with any of that - but none of it alters the fact that investors would have been better off (whether measured in LTC OR fiat) had they just kept the LTC rather than bought your shares (of course there's a decent chance LTC will fall back down fast - in which case that will no longer be the case). And that's what makes a lot of potential investors (myself included) wary of all businesses with signficant fiat assets (less so up to now for LTC investment than BTC - as LTC had previously tended to be pretty stable vs USD). Perhaps the correct approach would be to hedge all investments in fiat-exposed businesses (*) with corresponding options/futures. So if you buy 100 BTC worth of shares in a dollar company you also sell 100 BTC worth of puts at a correctly chosen strike to offset your currency risk. (*) Not meaning to imply that this trainwreck is a business by any means. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on March 09, 2013, 06:17:30 PM I have bought back some of the virtual shares.
This has resulted about 2000 LTC net and increased our LTC position to about 4700 LTC. Number of outstanding virtual shares is reduced to 100K. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on March 09, 2013, 07:04:39 PM I don't disagree with any of that - but none of it alters the fact that investors would have been better off (whether measured in LTC OR fiat) had they just kept the LTC rather than bought your shares (of course there's a decent chance LTC will fall back down fast - in which case that will no longer be the case). And that's what makes a lot of potential investors (myself included) wary of all businesses with signficant fiat assets (less so up to now for LTC investment than BTC - as LTC had previously tended to be pretty stable vs USD). Perhaps the correct approach would be to hedge all investments in fiat-exposed businesses (*) with corresponding options/futures. So if you buy 100 BTC worth of shares in a dollar company you also sell 100 BTC worth of puts at a correctly chosen strike to offset your currency risk. (*) Not meaning to imply that this trainwreck is a business by any means. That works - provided the expected return from the business exceeds the cost of the options/futures. An alternative would be for the business itself to hedge in such a manner - that possibly makes more sense as the business is in a better position than investors to know what its degree of exposure is at any time. But either route ends up with profits being significantly decreased if the hedge isn't needed - and for many businesses could end up pretty much guaranteeing a loss due to premiums on options/futures exceeding actual trading profit. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: MPOE-PR on March 09, 2013, 11:04:23 PM That works - provided the expected return from the business exceeds the cost of the options/futures. An alternative would be for the business itself to hedge in such a manner - that possibly makes more sense as the business is in a better position than investors to know what its degree of exposure is at any time. But either route ends up with profits being significantly decreased if the hedge isn't needed - and for many businesses could end up pretty much guaranteeing a loss due to premiums on options/futures exceeding actual trading profit. Then again if the expected profit from the business does not exceed the cost of insuring its fx risk it seems obvious that either the business has no business being in business or else its choice of accounting unit is very very broken. It certainly does not make sense for the business to hedge in such a manner. This is a bad idea for two reasons: one is that it requires the business operators to become financially competent, which is too high a toll. Even large and promising companies on the operational side (such as for instance asicminer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=151265.0)) are completely inept in that field, to their detriment. The other is that the specific insurance required is a function of the investor's portfolio, outlook and other considerations. A one measure fits all insurance will not work for investors who maybe in their own accounting reference the eur, usd, ltc or ggm (gallons of goat's milk). Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on March 10, 2013, 02:35:08 AM I have bought back some of the virtual shares. This has resulted about 2000 LTC net and increased our LTC position to about 4700 LTC. Number of outstanding virtual shares is reduced to 100K. Come again? When you buy back shares (which are priced in LTC and on LTC-Global) you SPEND LTC ending up with LESS than before you bought back. It CAN'T increase your LTC position. If you've got more LTC now than before then it's because you converted some BTC to LTC or something - not because you bought back shares. Buying back underpriced shares is fine - just make sure you're actually buying them back at below the current NAV/U (in LTC). From a quick mental estimation it looks like you DID buy back just below NAV/U - but hard for me to be sure as I can't say with certainty what exchange-rates you used in your last accounts (as you didn't provide them). Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on March 10, 2013, 09:58:27 AM I have bought back some of the virtual shares. This has resulted about 2000 LTC net and increased our LTC position to about 4700 LTC. Number of outstanding virtual shares is reduced to 100K. Come again? When you buy back shares (which are priced in LTC and on LTC-Global) you SPEND LTC ending up with LESS than before you bought back. It CAN'T increase your LTC position. If you've got more LTC now than before then it's because you converted some BTC to LTC or something - not because you bought back shares. Buying back underpriced shares is fine - just make sure you're actually buying them back at below the current NAV/U (in LTC). From a quick mental estimation it looks like you DID buy back just below NAV/U - but hard for me to be sure as I can't say with certainty what exchange-rates you used in your last accounts (as you didn't provide them). Correct, my wording was off. Maybe this simplified example helps to understand, what I meant. :) Sold 1000 at 1, received 1000 coins. We have 1000 shares on one side and 1000 coins at the other side. 1:1 Bought back 100 at 0.4, spent 40 coins from previously received 1000. Those 100 shares are no longer in the books as outstanding shares. Now we have 900 shares on one side and 960 ltc at the other side. Soup got thicker - 1,0666667 coins per share and not 1, as before. Correct wording is probably that we increased the available coin per share. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: MPOE-PR on April 02, 2013, 10:57:42 AM I take it an April statement is incoming or not really anymore?
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 08] Post by: Atruk on April 02, 2013, 11:29:14 AM Kiln has arrived. My goal now is to get it set up as fast as possible. First, I have to get the room ready. Waiting for the landlord to get her ass in gear etc. and then it's electricians turn. Do not worry, I am not sitting around and picking my nose :) I am constantly looking for potential clients, etc. For people who might be interested in renting kiln time with cryptocoins, where roughly might this studio be located? Promoting litecoin and bitcoin as a value transfer system is on my list. It's interesting. I asked for a location and received a platitude. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on April 02, 2013, 06:51:07 PM I'll post the April statement on weekend.
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: usagi on April 03, 2013, 01:45:23 AM I'll post the April statement on weekend. BTC has gone from $10 to $100, and ART lost 98.41% of it's investor's money. To point out the obvious, the expected loss was 90%, not 98.41%. Losing that extra 8.41% is much, much larger than it seems. Because accounting for the fluctuation in currency prices, ART went on to lose 84.1% of it's value. Please explain how you lost 84.1% of your investor's money, or (at current exchange prices) over $60,000. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on April 03, 2013, 02:51:18 AM I'll post the April statement on weekend. BTC has gone from $10 to $100, and ART lost 98.41% of it's investor's money. To point out the obvious, the expected loss was 90%, not 98.41%. Losing that extra 8.41% is much, much larger than it seems. Because accounting for the fluctuation in currency prices, ART went on to lose 84.1% of it's value. Please explain how you lost 84.1% of your investor's money, or (at current exchange prices) over $60,000. To point out the REALLY obvious, ART was sold in LTC not BTC. And LTC has gone from $0.06 to $4 (though starting its downwards correction now), so share price/book value could reasonably be expected to have fallen by well over the 90% you mention. Not sure where the 98.41% is coming from (is there a deleted post or something?) - but the expected (and actual) losses need to be done in the currency it's denominated in. You can't just pick another currency to use because it's convenient - if you did that then people running losing BTC investments could price in USD prices to pretend to have made a profit and all manner of nasty things. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: usagi on April 03, 2013, 04:08:20 AM To point out the REALLY obvious, ART was sold in LTC not BTC. And LTC has gone from $0.06 to $4 (though starting its downwards correction now), so share price/book value could reasonably be expected to have fallen by well over the 90% you mention. Not sure where the 98.41% is coming from (is there a deleted post or something?) - but the expected (and actual) losses need to be done in the currency it's denominated in. You can't just pick another currency to use because it's convenient - if you did that then people running losing BTC investments could price in USD prices to pretend to have made a profit and all manner of nasty things. This is very simple. It works just like EskimoBob said it did himself. He sold shares at 1. The shares are now worth You will recall that you yourself pointed out this was a scam from day 1. I agreed. This is the result. This is why the LTC-GLOBAL moderators need a slap in the face. They voted someone in with a highly negative OTC rating. What did you THINK was going to happen? Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on April 03, 2013, 06:10:22 AM To point out the REALLY obvious, ART was sold in LTC not BTC. And LTC has gone from $0.06 to $4 (though starting its downwards correction now), so share price/book value could reasonably be expected to have fallen by well over the 90% you mention. Not sure where the 98.41% is coming from (is there a deleted post or something?) - but the expected (and actual) losses need to be done in the currency it's denominated in. You can't just pick another currency to use because it's convenient - if you did that then people running losing BTC investments could price in USD prices to pretend to have made a profit and all manner of nasty things. This is very simple. It works just like EskimoBob said it did himself. He sold shares at 1. The shares are now worth You will recall that you yourself pointed out this was a scam from day 1. I agreed. This is the result. This is why the LTC-GLOBAL moderators need a slap in the face. They voted someone in with a highly negative OTC rating. What did you THINK was going to happen? Oh it was a horrible investment to make in LTC - but then pretty much ANY asset which is fiat-based will be. For every 1 LTC paid into a fiat-based company when this one started (with LTC about $.07) there'd now be (with LTC at $3.6), .0194 of an LTC of value left/share if ALL they did was convert it into fiat. Now current LTC price is inflated - but some significant rise was pretty inevitable. In fact I think you'll find when Bob produces the accounts that there's actually more value left than that - as he still has/had a chunk held in BTC/LTC. But as he's not been communicative lately shares have sold down likely well below book value. Until people realise that investing BTC/LTC into fiat-based operations totally defeats the purpose of having BTC/LTC in the first place, this issue will continue. Only way they work out good investments long term is if the crypto currency falls vd fiat in which case you shouldn't have been using it in the first place. Investors need to wake up and realise people aren't selling shares here because their offerings are somehow suited to BTC/LTC - they're selling here because they lack the credit/friends/cash to raise capital anywhere else and here's full of gullible/uninformed people happy to throw funds around. I don't recall pointing out this was a scam from day 1. I didn't believe it to be a scam when it started (and still thing it probably isn't a scam) - just a horribly bad investment with zero chance of making a profit denominated in LTC and not much better chance of even making a fiat-denominated profit (which is of no interest to me anyway). I have, of course, still traded the shares and my fund does own some picked up cheap (I hope lol) in panic-selling. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: augustocroppo on April 06, 2013, 04:26:58 PM It was me, and I changed my vote to yes because you published the financial statement. I am also a shareholder. You are trusting money to the person which participated in the campaign to destroy your business. I did not know I was arguing in favor of an idiot. Please, next time you are false accused, do not ask for my opinion. As I recall I didn't ask for your opinion, but I did thank you for it. Yes, it's true that EskimoBob participated in an organized campaign to defame me. But that is water under the bridge now. EskimoBob is receiving regular scheduled distributions on his investment along with all my other former shareholders. Further, I own some shares of ART. In short, EskimoBob works for me now, Augustocroppo, and in my books that's the way it should be. I have no qualms about what EskimoBob did so long as he pays for it, one way or another. And a 10% return in a little over a month is fine with me. I've evaluated his business plan and I rather like the little setup he has going. It works like this. Either he makes me rich, or he turns out to be a scammer and I get the last laugh. I could care less either way. I'm sorry you feel I am an idiot Augustocroppo, but if I failed to take advantage of the opportunity EskimoBob presented, I would be a piss-poor investor. As a result I would cordially propose that in the end I turned out to be the better man, and leave it at that. No... When I made that post I was not feeling that you are an idiot. I was sure that you were behaving like an idiot. Can you realize the difference? It turned out that Eskimobob is exactly what he always accused you to be. So, how do you feel right now, Usagi? I feel great to watch this fiasco. I was sure from the begin that Eskimobob words did not worth a single Satoshi. Ah... The smell of victory, like the ancient Romans used to appreciate! Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: MPOE-PR on April 06, 2013, 07:06:06 PM Lol this escalated quickly.
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on April 06, 2013, 07:29:57 PM You 3 pathetic clowns (usagi, mpoe-bs and augusto) need to take your shit slinging somewhere else. Use that shiny "New Topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=9.0)" button and have your daily circle jerk in Off-topic or something.
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [news for week 03] Post by: usagi on April 07, 2013, 12:36:37 AM No... When I made that post I was not feeling that you are an idiot. I was sure that you were behaving like an idiot. Can you realize the difference? Yes, I thought about it a lot since that post. It turned out that Eskimobob is exactly what he always accused you to be. So, how do you feel right now, Usagi? I feel great to watch this fiasco. I was sure from the begin that Eskimobob words did not worth a single Satoshi. Ah... The smell of victory, like the ancient Romans used to appreciate! I don't feel good. I thought that I might feel vindicated, but people lost 99% of their money when ART fell to a bid price of 0.01. I only had 34 shares. So while I was right, it's no good that he turned out to be a failure. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: usagi on April 07, 2013, 01:12:29 AM You 3 pathetic clowns (usagi, mpoe-bs and augusto) need to take your shit slinging somewhere else. Use that shiny "New Topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=9.0)" button and have your daily circle jerk in Off-topic or something. Wow, you sure sound like someone who knows how to run a business and deal with shareholders. Here's what this sounds like to me (from "The Producers"): Max Bialystock: You were saying that under the right circumstances, a producer could make more money with a flop than he could with a hit. Leo Bloom: Yes, it's quite possible. Max Bialystock: You keep saying that, but you don't tell me how. How could a producer make more money with a flop than with a hit? Leo Bloom: It's simply a matter of creative accounting. Let us assume, just for the moment, that you are a dishonest man. Max Bialystock: Assume away! Leo Bloom: Well, it's very easy. You simply raise more money than you really need. Max Bialystock: What do you mean? Leo Bloom: You've done it yourself, only you did it on a very small scale. Max Bialystock: What did I do? Leo Bloom: You raised two thousand more than you needed to produce your last play. Max Bialystock: So what? What did it get me? I'm wearing a cardboard belt. Leo Bloom: Ahhhhhh! But that's where you made your error. You didn't go all the way. You see, if you were really a bold criminal, you could have raised a million. Max Bialystock: But the play only cost $60,000 to produce. Leo Bloom: Exactly. And how long did it run? Max Bialystock: One night. Leo Bloom: See? You could have raised a million dollars, put on a sixty thousand dollar flop and kept the rest. Max Bialystock: But what if the play was a hit? Leo Boom: Oh, you'd go to jail. If the play were a hit, you'd have to pay off the backers, and with so many backers there could never be enough profits to go around, get it? Max Bialystock: Aha, aha, aha, aha, aha, aha!! So, in order for the scheme to work, we'd have to find a sure fire flop. I'll post the April statement on weekend. We will be publishing our monthly statements in forum and follow typical bookkeeping rules. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102010.msg1116762#msg1116762) You lied on both counts, not only didn't you publish your statements on time every month so far, you don't follow any sort of typical rules at all. The financials for (February?) were so bad, remember, I had to ask you to post exchange rates and clarify some obviously wrong figures *(like a fiat bank balance of zero, despite claiming to have performed several fiat transactions via your bank). After about 6+ months of research and following the trends on the local ceramics art seen, we have come to the conclusion that the local artist (hobby and freelance) community is in serious need for a flexible access to shop equipment. Especially the more expensive equipment that is way out of reach for most hobby and freelance artist. Our research has shown, that this service is more than welcome and our proposed price range is considered very attractive. You lied. You said this was for your 3 artist friends. I quote, "Some of my friends are planning to set up their own art studio. To make it happen, they need to buy very specific equipment. Good news is, that the equipment they need is usable for a very long time and can actually be used to generate additional revenue by selling the "shelf space" (lack of better wording) for professional and hobby artists. It also holds value over time and can be sold later." (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102010.msg1116762#msg1116762) That story changed very quickly into renting out a studio, didn't it? We like to take the utilisation up to 75% in 3 months or less. You aren't even set up yet. Not sure if a lie or not but you obviously have failed to execute on your own business plan, which shows that you have no idea what you are doing. "It also holds value over time and can be sold later." (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102010.msg1116762#msg1116762) Again, not sure if this is a direct lie or you just stole 99% of your investor's money. ART is now 0.01 per share on LTC-GLOBAL down from 1. Stockholder Agreement The total issue will be up 250 000 virtual shares @ 1 LTC per share. This is a lie. Your original contract states, "So, The Plan is to rise about 15K EUR worth of crowdfunding and for that, we are selling up to 34 000 virtual Support Tokens." (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102010.msg1116762#msg1116762). You already broke it by 3x and raised 99,000 shares, which is worth almost $400,000 at current exchange rates. $15,000 euro? You've raised 20x the money you said you needed and you keep promising to release more and more shares! This is a classic "producers" scam. In "The Producers", a pair of novice playwrights attempt to write a bad (but saleable) play and then to raise more money than they will ever need, spending as little as possible in the process. The famed quote here is, "Don't you see Bloom, darling Bloom, glorious Bloom? It's so simple. Step one: We find the worst play world, a surefire flop. Step two: I raise a million bucks. Lots of little old ladies out there. Step three: You go back to work on the books, phony list of backers - one for the government, one for us. You can do it, Bloom; you're a wizard! Step four: We open on Broadway. And before you can say Step five, we *close* on Broadway!". That's exactly what ART is. A shitty plan (a European art studio for 3 of EskimoBob's closest friends), and before you can say "Step 5" boom, 99% of the money is GONE. Quote from: ibid. * Proceeds from the issue will be used to acquire ceramics art studio equipment, materials, parts and cover regular maintenance if required, and cover other similar equipment related expenses * Equipment will be insured against theft or destruction by fire or similar incident. Another lie. You have to date failed to procure insurance, despite being asked on numerous occasions. This is a very important point. Skimming the insurance money and putting it in your own pocket feels like an easy crime, but it has disastrous consequences if anything goes wrong (i.e. investors lose everything). Is that why your stock is worth 0.01 now? Did the Kiln get stolen? Quote from: ibid. * If the project fails, ART virtual share issuer nor project manager (persons or legal entity(s) can not be held liable. * Issuer can not be held liable for any of your actions or decisions like selling, trading, destroying or anything else you plan or can imagine doing with your virtual shares. * All sales of ART virtual shares are considered final. * All unsold virtual stock is considered as a "treasury stock", that has no rights for voting nor dividends. * Dividends are paid monthly. This whole thing is a lie. Check out ART's original thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102010.msg1265496#msg1265496 I can't quote directly because it's locked but if you check EskimoBob's oldest post containing his contract you will see he's stricken or changed nearly every term from his original contract. He has slowly morphed ART into something it never was. This whole thing was designed as a bait and switch from the very beginning. Here's a partial, manual quote: Quote 2. Equipment is used to generate additional income for the project. 3. Most of the equipment is usable for long periods of time (years). 4. Equipment will be insured against theft or destruction by fire or similar incident. 5. Up to 34 000 virtual Support Tokens will be sold at 0.05 BTC per token. 6. Support Tokens do not represent any share or membership in "Open Art Shop Project" or in its managing legal entity(s). 7. Support Tokens are not registered as financial securities nor do they represent any financial security whatsoever. 8. Proceeds from the sale of virtual Support Tokens are used to buy equipment, materials, parts and cover other equipment related expenses. 9. The project does not promise any profits. 10. Any profit (after expenses) will be shared among holders of virtual ART-OTC Support Tokens. 11. Profits are converted to BTC from EUR, USD or any other fiat currency and divided by number of outstanding STs. 12. If the purchased equipment is sold, proceeds will be divided up between token owners (by paying a final dividend and/or calling back the STs) 13. ARTS-OTC Support Tokens can (but do not have to) be bought back by the issuer. 14. We will do our best to keep the project profitable. 15. If the project fails, ART-OTC Support Tokens issuer or project manager (persons or legal entity(s) can not be held liable. 16. Issuer reserve the right to make minor changes to this contract. 17. Issuer can not be held liable for any of your actions or any of the results from your actions. Actions like, selling, trading, destroying or anything else you plan or can imagine doing with your STs 18. All sales of ART-OTC virtual Support Tokens are considered final after you have transferred your coin to address give to you by the issuer. Yes, he really did strike every single clause from his original contract. Anyone investing in this garbage deserves to lose their entire investment, myself included. I bought 34 shares. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: augustocroppo on April 07, 2013, 01:29:51 AM Stockholder Agreement * If the project fails, ART virtual share issuer nor project manager (persons or legal entity(s) can not be held liable. * Issuer can not be held liable for any of your actions or decisions like selling, trading, destroying or anything else you plan or can imagine doing with your virtual shares. * All sales of ART virtual shares are considered final. * All unsold virtual stock is considered as a "treasury stock", that has no rights for voting nor dividends. * Dividends are paid monthly. Wow... What amazing agreement. One whose liabilities only fall over the "Tokenholders"! What a piece of art! Brilliant! Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on April 07, 2013, 01:34:56 AM He's hardly unique in his failure to post accounts. Don't think ANY of the fiat-based assets on LTC-Global have posted anything resembling accounts or even lists of assets this month. Nor (unless today - just reading threads now) have any of the fiat-based ones on Bitfunder - except usagi's. Don't think there's any ones on BTC.CO to do so (I'm not counting mining securities - as most of those have no economic activity needing regular accounts).
The situation's not a lot better for non-fiat denominated "businesses" either. Most funds do produce balance/asset lists (which is about all they need to produce - as investors only own the assets not the company) but things listed as shares generally fail dismally in providing any records at all, no matter which site they're on (exception being MPEx). The simple test of whether a company is providing sufficient information is this: Go to their thread and read it. If you believe everything the asset issuer tells you, what is the underlieing/book value of your share/unit? Is there ANY basis on which you can calculate ANY value for your share/unit from what they've told you? If not, then they're failing you. Most BTC/LTC businesses totally fail at this. That's in no way to excuse EB - just pointing out the problem is a very wide-spread one. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: usagi on April 07, 2013, 01:37:32 AM He's hardly unique in his failure to post accounts. Yes he is, because he is contractually obligated to post them. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on April 07, 2013, 02:22:21 AM He's hardly unique in his failure to post accounts. Yes he is, because he is contractually obligated to post them. Wow - how can you take a point you were essentially correct on then manage to isolate a single statement I make and make an entirely false claim? Do you ever actually check facts before making statements about them? Do you know what unique means? How about you go look at some of the fiat companies I referred to. And notice that their contracts say they'll produce statements. Then look and see no such statements. You only have to find ONE more for him not to be unique (look the word up first - so you know what it means). You'll find lots. Feel free to change the subjest as you usually do when you're wrong. You could start by looking at ZIGGAP and BitPride - and see that neither is managed to stick to a dividend schedule let alone accompanying statements. Then maybe look at Tabita/S.Wihee on LTC-GLobal - the same platform as EB's security. See the bits in their contracts about accounts? Also, on a simple point of logic: If I say "EB is not unique in X" You saying "Yes he is - he's unique in Y" Is NOT a response to what I posted - it's an entirely seperate (and this case, STILL entirely wrong) one. X being "Produced accounts" Y being "Was contractually obliged to produce accounts and failed to do so". NOT the same thing. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: usagi on April 07, 2013, 02:28:57 AM If I say "EB is not unique in X" You saying "Yes he is - he's unique in Y" Is NOT a response to what I posted - it's an entirely seperate (and this case, STILL entirely wrong) one. If you don't like it then don't try to change the subject. Let me remind you, this is about ART. When other companies don't release reports it is not an excuse for EskimoBob to break his contractual obligations. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on April 07, 2013, 02:36:31 AM You 3 pathetic clowns (usagi, mpoe-bs and augusto) need to take your shit slinging somewhere else. Use that shiny "New Topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=9.0)" button and have your daily circle jerk in Off-topic or something. Wow, you sure sound like someone who knows how to run a business and deal with shareholders. Here's what this sounds like to me (from "The Producers"): Max Bialystock: You were saying that under the right circumstances, a producer could make more money with a flop than he could with a hit. Leo Bloom: Yes, it's quite possible. Max Bialystock: You keep saying that, but you don't tell me how. How could a producer make more money with a flop than with a hit? Leo Bloom: It's simply a matter of creative accounting. Let us assume, just for the moment, that you are a dishonest man. Max Bialystock: Assume away! Leo Bloom: Well, it's very easy. You simply raise more money than you really need. Max Bialystock: What do you mean? Leo Bloom: You've done it yourself, only you did it on a very small scale. Max Bialystock: What did I do? Leo Bloom: You raised two thousand more than you needed to produce your last play. Max Bialystock: So what? What did it get me? I'm wearing a cardboard belt. Leo Bloom: Ahhhhhh! But that's where you made your error. You didn't go all the way. You see, if you were really a bold criminal, you could have raised a million. Max Bialystock: But the play only cost $60,000 to produce. Leo Bloom: Exactly. And how long did it run? Max Bialystock: One night. Leo Bloom: See? You could have raised a million dollars, put on a sixty thousand dollar flop and kept the rest. Max Bialystock: But what if the play was a hit? Leo Boom: Oh, you'd go to jail. If the play were a hit, you'd have to pay off the backers, and with so many backers there could never be enough profits to go around, get it? Max Bialystock: Aha, aha, aha, aha, aha, aha!! So, in order for the scheme to work, we'd have to find a sure fire flop. Hehe missed this. This actually happened in Poker backing/staking. Some idiot oversold himself for a large tournament then failed to bust out early and ended up finishing 2nd. He then had the awkward problem of having to pay out huge profit shares to about well over 100% of shares in himself. It's actually not that different to what a bunch of recent IPOs are doing: taking large upfront chunks of cash out of the IPO proceeds, safe in the knowledge that the "business" will never actually make that much. It's a different model - but still the same principle of fleecing investors via a dishonest valuation. And the fiat-based companies that don't produce full accounts have an entirely different way to steal. They can decide whether or not, for the purpsoes of reporting to investors, they've held cash as BTC or USD AFTER seeing which way exchange-rates move: pocketing any difference themselves. Bob's surplus was apparently held in BTC - whilst LTC had risen sharply. If he'd actually been holding LTC he could have bought the BTC at the old rate with 1/3-1/4 of it and pocketed the rest - and investors couldn't tell the difference. Only way investors can have confidence THAT sort of thing doesn't occur is if the denomination in which cash will be held is stated in advance (e.g. for LTC-ATF it's policy that it's kept in the range of 80-90% LTC and 10-20% BTC). That's another area where "businesses" are leaving htemselves open opportunities to defraud investors simply failing to make clear a very basic policy that there's no good reason to hide. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on April 07, 2013, 02:37:52 AM If I say "EB is not unique in X" You saying "Yes he is - he's unique in Y" Is NOT a response to what I posted - it's an entirely seperate (and this case, STILL entirely wrong) one. If you don't like it then don't try to change the subject. Let me remind you, this is about ART. When other companies don't release reports it is not an excuse for EskimoBob to break his contractual obligations. But it's an excuse to lie about a simple fact that could be verified in 10 seconds? Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: augustocroppo on April 07, 2013, 02:40:15 AM Oh, I really like this!
https://i.imgur.com/10VNCVx.png A quick look on this masterpiece reveals the superb artistic touch Eskimobob have to manage his bookkeeping: Fixed_Assets Kiln 01 60S 41487.14 The price of new oven is: http://www.keramikbedarf.net/shop/product_info.php?info=p2303_top-loading-kiln-rohde-ecotop-60s.html&XTCsid=l17h93phu4gleiiudejlveh0u6 Quote Top loading kiln ROHDE ECOTOP 60S Toploader ECOTOP 60 S incl. controller TC304 and kiln furniture set 1.740,00 EUR Eskimobob affirms that the oven was ordered on January: 18.01.2013 - First equipment order (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130947.msg1462197#msg1462197) http://www.ltc-charts.com/period-charts.php?period=3-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-usd&market=btc-e Quote 2013-01-18 0.05940 USD 0.06339 USD 0.06314 USD 0.06161 USD 63,268.31 LTC So, by that time, the oven cost around 2556.0226954 USD, but today worths 119317.84 USD ( btc-e.com Server Time: 07.04.13 05:57)? I wonder, who on earth would even buy an used electric oven for 119317.84 USD? By the way, the electric oven even exist? Did anyone got a photo of the delivered oven? A photo of the room where it is stored? Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Deprived on April 07, 2013, 02:44:28 AM Oh, I really like this! https://i.imgur.com/10VNCVx.png A quick look on this masterpiece reveals the superb artistic touch Eskimobob have to manage his bookkeeping: Fixed_Assets Kiln 01 60S 41487.14 The price of new oven is: http://www.keramikbedarf.net/shop/product_info.php?info=p2303_top-loading-kiln-rohde-ecotop-60s.html&XTCsid=l17h93phu4gleiiudejlveh0u6 Quote Top loading kiln ROHDE ECOTOP 60S Toploader ECOTOP 60 S incl. controller TC304 and kiln furniture set 1.740,00 EUR Eskimobob affirms that the oven was ordered on January: 18.01.2013 - First equipment order (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130947.msg1462197#msg1462197) http://www.ltc-charts.com/period-charts.php?period=3-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-usd&market=btc-e Quote 2013-01-18 0.05940 USD 0.06339 USD 0.06314 USD 0.06161 USD 63,268.31 LTC So, by that time, the oven cost around 2556.0226954 USD, but today worths 119317.84 USD ( btc-e.com Server Time: 07.04.13 05:57)? I wonder, who on earth would even buy an used electric oven for 119317.84 USD? By the way, that even exist? Glad I unignored you - that's one hell of a kiln! What exchange-rate did you use EB? EDIT: Just realised you were quoitng last month's report. At that point LTC was at a low - its current price is after a massive rise which didn't start until about a week into March. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: MPOE-PR on April 07, 2013, 12:26:05 PM He's hardly unique in his failure to post accounts. Don't think ANY of the fiat-based assets on LTC-Global have posted anything resembling accounts or even lists of assets this month. Nor (unless today - just reading threads now) have any of the fiat-based ones on Bitfunder - except usagi's. Don't think there's any ones on BTC.CO to do so (I'm not counting mining securities - as most of those have no economic activity needing regular accounts). The situation's not a lot better for non-fiat denominated "businesses" either. Most funds do produce balance/asset lists (which is about all they need to produce - as investors only own the assets not the company) but things listed as shares generally fail dismally in providing any records at all, no matter which site they're on (exception being MPEx). The simple test of whether a company is providing sufficient information is this: Go to their thread and read it. If you believe everything the asset issuer tells you, what is the underlieing/book value of your share/unit? Is there ANY basis on which you can calculate ANY value for your share/unit from what they've told you? If not, then they're failing you. Most BTC/LTC businesses totally fail at this. That's in no way to excuse EB - just pointing out the problem is a very wide-spread one. It is indeed a serious problem. It does have the narrow virtue of turning MPEx from "that exchange with only three equities" to "that exchange where 100% of actual equities are", but more generally it is a huge thorn in any pretense of "finance" outside of MPEx. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on April 07, 2013, 06:52:22 PM I am still having little problems figuring out the accounting software and using it for proper reporting.
In March, we sold only 57,90€ worth of firing services and this generated 121.42 LTC. We averaged only 21 paid liters per load. I guess it will take longer than I expected to get enough clients and increase the workload for the kiln. Balances on March 31 BTC: 81,844 (5976,25 EUR) LTC: 121.42 (81,57 ERU) Fixed assets (klin etc): 3510 EUR Total assets: 9567,82 € Outstanding virtual shares: 99000 What's up in April: People started to ask for ceramic workshop so we decided to add this to our "menu". This will be generating work for the kiln and pottery wheel in April. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: themur on April 09, 2013, 10:39:42 PM Would it also be possible to get statements of income and expenses.
Also, could you please be consistent between reporting currencies, last month you were reporting in LTC and this month you are reporting in Euro, that makes it hard to compare month to month and understand what is happening with this asset. Thanks Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: augustocroppo on April 10, 2013, 01:07:29 AM I am still having little problems figuring out the accounting software and using it for proper reporting. In March, we sold only 57,90€ worth of firing services and this generated 121.42 LTC. We averaged only 21 paid liters per load. I guess it will take longer than I expected to get enough clients and increase the workload for the kiln. Balances on March 31 BTC: 81,844 (5976,25 EUR) LTC: 121.42 (81,57 ERU) Fixed assets (klin etc): 3510 EUR Total assets: 9567,82 € Outstanding virtual shares: 99000 What's up in April: People started to ask for ceramic workshop so we decided to add this to our "menu". This will be generating work for the kiln and pottery wheel in April. Quote for later verification Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on April 14, 2013, 09:48:08 AM Would it also be possible to get statements of income and expenses. Also, could you please be consistent between reporting currencies, last month you were reporting in LTC and this month you are reporting in Euro, that makes it hard to compare month to month and understand what is happening with this asset. Thanks From now on I'll be reporting only in EUR because BTC, LTC etc have become too unstable for reporting and I operate in EUR. Holdings in BTC, LTC etc. will be shown as is. Rent, power etc expenses will be reported with one month delay because I receive the bill for utilities usually on the 15th of the month and yes, kiln has it's own separate power meter. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: usagi on April 29, 2013, 08:15:47 AM Usagi, if you have another wild theory about ART, please take it where it belongs (garbage can) and stop thread crapping. BTW, usagi is not only investing blindly (he pissed away over 7000 btc of investors money in GLBSE) but he ha no idea wtf "company value" means. :) Or more precisely, concepts "like currency" risk are completely alien to our beloved Japanese princess Oliver... oops.. usagi. LOL This is a great example of your inability to properly value a company. BMF was only worth about 2,500 BTC at it's peak around $10/BTC, ans we have already paid out on every security we could recover. ART on the other hand fell by 99.9% before staging a small recovery. Total loss was well over 2,500 BTC (more than the entirety of BMF). But it's not really your "fault" -- you need to relax and stop getting sand in your panties just because the price of LTC or BTC changes vs. USD. Don't get mad. I'm just a messenger. On a pound for pound basis, considering the exchange rate swings, I did an order of magnitude better with BMF than you did with ART, and that is a fact. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on April 29, 2013, 09:01:18 AM Usagi, if you have another wild theory about ART, please take it where it belongs (garbage can) and stop thread crapping. BTW, usagi is not only investing blindly (he pissed away over 7000 btc of investors money in GLBSE) but he ha no idea wtf "company value" means. :) Or more precisely, concepts "like currency" risk are completely alien to our beloved Japanese princess Oliver... oops.. usagi. LOL This is a great example of your inability to properly value a company. BMF was only worth about 2,500 BTC at it's peak around $10/BTC, ans we have already paid out on every security we could recover. ART on the other hand fell by 99.9% before staging a small recovery. Total loss was well over 2,500 BTC (more than the entirety of BMF). But it's not really your "fault" -- you need to relax and stop getting sand in your panties just because the price of LTC or BTC changes vs. USD. Don't get mad. I'm just a messenger. On a pound for pound basis, considering the exchange rate swings, I did an order of magnitude better with BMF than you did with ART, and that is a fact. Amazing! How do you calculate that? BTW, ART never had 2500 BTC in any form. You really need to get your numbers straight, before you come up with another wild accusation. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: Newar on May 03, 2013, 12:57:53 PM What are the current numbers for kiln utilisation etc?
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on May 04, 2013, 12:45:13 PM What are the current numbers for kiln utilisation etc? I'll post the numbers today or tomorrow. I have to reenter everything from day one because my attempts to fix the reporting have failed. I am seeing very large numbers (hundreds of thousands) that do not exist anywhere in the accounts/ledger and I have no idea where those numbers are coming from. I wasted a better part of a day reading about accounting and searching for errors in that damn thing. Looks like I have to waste more time on this. I'll rather be fishing and enjoying outdoors... Damn those fkn computers. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on May 04, 2013, 05:16:56 PM Here is the report for April 2013
We sold more firing service but still not what I like to see. Total sales, with wheel rental: Code: April sales where €116,80 Exchange rates for the report: 1 BTCw € 108,78 1 LTCw € 3,14733 Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 18] Post by: EskimoBob on May 09, 2013, 05:20:10 PM Answering few questions in LTC forum https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,980.msg22470.html#msg22470
Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: EskimoBob on June 03, 2013, 09:00:57 AM Here are the Mai 2013 numbers.
May started out well but from third week, it has been really quiet. Few customers fell behind their own schedules and never completed the planned work for May. As a result, we had nothing to fire. Wheel got some action but still not enough. Same applies to our kiln. When it ain't clicking, it ain't earning. Code: Mai 2013 and Code: Balance Sheet 31.05.2013 Outstanding virtual shares: 99000 May closing 0.0205 LTC - 0,0451 € 12054,55/99000 = 0,12176313 / 2,2 = 0,055346877 ltc Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: augustocroppo on June 03, 2013, 11:57:00 PM As a result, we had nothing to fire. Wheel got some action but still not enough. Same applies to our kiln. When it ain't clicking, it ain't earning. In other words, you management is poor and that is why your "tokens" which was sold by 1 LTC now only worth 0.02049 LTC. ::) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: EskimoBob on June 04, 2013, 05:31:26 AM As a result, we had nothing to fire. Wheel got some action but still not enough. Same applies to our kiln. When it ain't clicking, it ain't earning. In other words, you management is poor and that is why your "tokens" which was sold by 1 LTC now only worth 0.02049 LTC. ::) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: EskimoBob on June 04, 2013, 12:00:33 PM You know what A+C, making fun at you will not help you nor others, who have to suffer your trolling. :)
So, let me help you instead. I am giving you few hints or tasks. Use your favourite search engine and figure those out on your own. If I spoonfeed it to you, you will forget and learn nothing and you will be back trolling. Here we go: 1) Do you know what a currency risk is? 2) Do you know what LTC/EUR/USD exchange rate was in Decemper 2012? Howe about January 2013 and February? What about first week of March 2013? 3) Do you know what the LTC exchange rate is today? Hint: http://cryptocoincharts.info/ Now, if you recall hint #1, please put this all together and think. Remember, nobody has a crystal ball and hindsight does not count. Let me give you a hint #4 - My business in NOT protecting YOU from currency risk. Sorry. I can not stay in LTC and BTC. This is not possible, because I had to buy equipment. Same as all the other businesses - we still need fiat. When you invest your coin to fiat business, you practically sell your coin at what ever the going rate was and that is it. "If I only had held on to my coin... blaa blaa blaa" is nonsense and will get you nowhere. It is different story, if you give your coin to someone, who tells you they are all BTC/LTC business. As you can see, even sdice can not keep up with BTC:FIAT price and they are probably the only real "BTC only" business around. BTW, I actually converted some fiat back to LTC and some was left in BTC. This is why we have a 7K unrealized gain. We raised about 4K EUR and now we have about 12K in assets. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: augustocroppo on June 04, 2013, 05:50:13 PM LOL Go and try to evolve, I did not changed my name, I changed my USERNAME. You pretend to be smart by cannot even understand the difference between name and username. I still sign as Augusto Croppo in my messages in case you do not know. There is no secret about it. Yeah, I am dumb, I am the manager which issued worthless "tokens" to buy electric ovens which no one seems interested to use, right? 8) You cannot even set up a proper spreadsheet to control your finances. You are the epic joke here, not me. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: EskimoBob on June 04, 2013, 07:47:02 PM LOL Go and try to evolve, I did not changed my name, I changed my USERNAME. You pretend to be smart by cannot even understand the difference between name and username. I still sign as Augusto Croppo in my messages in case you do not know. There is no secret about it. Yeah, I am dumb, I am the manager which issued worthless "tokens" to buy electric ovens which no one seems interested to use, right? 8) You cannot even set up a proper spreadsheet to control your finances. You are the epic joke here, not me. LOL. You are a comedian, but not a good one. What do I need a shitty spread sheet for? I use double entry accounting software to keep track of what is going on and print out my reports you obviously can not read nor understand :P Those spreadsheets, people love to use around here, are sad jokes and I hope this bs stops soon. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: augustocroppo on June 04, 2013, 10:10:47 PM I use double entry accounting software to keep track of what is going on and print out my reports you obviously can not read nor understand :P There you go, ladies and gentleman, the "token" issuer is so good using his accounting software that he evaluated a single oven for 119317.84 USD.... What do I need a shitty spread sheet for? Perhaps you need it to solve complex or extensive calculations which you are not able to perform with your ultra-mega-hyper-sophisticated-triple-check-all-in-one accounting software? Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: EskimoBob on June 05, 2013, 05:38:46 AM I use double entry accounting software to keep track of what is going on and print out my reports you obviously can not read nor understand :P There you go, ladies and gentleman, the "token" issuer is so good using his accounting software that he evaluated a single oven for 119317.84 USD.... What do I need a shitty spread sheet for? Perhaps you need it to solve complex or extensive calculations which you are not able to perform with your ultra-mega-hyper-sophisticated-triple-check-all-in-one accounting software? crickets... PS! Dude, you are way outside of your competence level. I'll preserve that fine example of your utter stupidity for the future generation. Cheers! Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: augustocroppo on June 06, 2013, 07:19:23 AM crickets... PS! Dude, you are way outside of your competence level. I'll preserve that fine example of your utter stupidity for the future generation. Cheers! Did you realize in this topic there is not one single forum user praising or congratulating your management? You sound like a delusional person screaming that no one is listening to me without also noticing that no one is listening to you... ("Crickets"?) The only thing you are preserving is evidence which speaks about the capacity you lack to deal with people's investments. If there is something the future generations will learn from my fine example is to not let people like you play with their wealth. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: MPOE-PR on June 07, 2013, 05:08:11 PM crickets... PS! Dude, you are way outside of your competence level. I'll preserve that fine example of your utter stupidity for the future generation. Cheers! Did you realize in this topic there is not one single forum user praising or congratulating your management? You sound like a delusional person screaming that no one is listening to me without also noticing that no one is listening to you... ("Crickets"?) The only thing you are preserving is evidence which speaks about the capacity you lack to deal with people's investments. If there is something the future generations will learn from my fine example is to not let people like you play with their wealth. I have been enjoying the thread from a comedic perspective tbh. Take for instance the expense account which does not figure any amortization charges. Pure gold. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: EskimoBob on June 08, 2013, 07:59:28 AM LOL, I can only imagine how dipshit Mircea Popescu and his "pr" muppet* (Bull-Shit, not PR) labored over those few line to find something to whine about. Comedy indeed!
Good job dipshits :-* BTW, assets have been depreciated by correct amount in balance sheet. Interesting indeed. ---- * - Is it possible that this PR scank of yours is actually your alter ego? It is not that uncommon for pathological narcissist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder), like you, to have also split personality disorder. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: augustocroppo on June 08, 2013, 09:12:37 AM I have been enjoying the thread from a comedic perspective tbh. Take for instance the expense account which does not figure any amortization charges. Pure gold. That was an interesting suggestion. Well, I learned something from your comment. It seems Eskimobob thinks his oven are going to last forever. He is not assuming that his assets depreciates after some time. LOL, I can only imagine how dipshit Mircea Popescu and his "pr" muppet* (Bull-Shit, not PR) labored over those few line to find something to whine about. Comedy indeed! Good job dipshits :-* BTW, assets have been depreciated by correct amount in balance sheet. Interesting indeed. ---- * - Is it possible that this PR scank of yours is actually your alter ego? It is not that uncommon for pathological narcissist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder), like you, to have also split personality disorder. Perhaps you are wasting too much time with your double entry software... Are you becoming stressed with the fact that your bonds are worthless whatever the bond holders wants LTC or USD? Take a break, it is time to fish and enjoy the outdoors at the expenses of the investors: https://i.imgur.com/FnK2LSi.png I'll post the numbers today or tomorrow. I have to reenter everything from day one because my attempts to fix the reporting have failed. I am seeing very large numbers (hundreds of thousands) that do not exist anywhere in the accounts/ledger and I have no idea where those numbers are coming from. I wasted a better part of a day reading about accounting and searching for errors in that damn thing. Looks like I have to waste more time on this. I'll rather be fishing and enjoying outdoors... Damn those fkn computers. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: EskimoBob on June 08, 2013, 09:41:00 AM I have been enjoying the thread from a comedic perspective tbh. Take for instance the expense account which does not figure any amortization charges. Pure gold. That was an interesting suggestion. Well, I learned something from your comment. It seems Eskimobob thinks his oven are going to last forever. He is not assuming that his assets depreciates after some time. LOL, I can only imagine how dipshit Mircea Popescu and his "pr" muppet* (Bull-Shit, not PR) labored over those few line to find something to whine about. Comedy indeed! Good job dipshits :-* BTW, assets have been depreciated by correct amount in balance sheet. Interesting indeed. ---- * - Is it possible that this PR scank of yours is actually your alter ego? It is not that uncommon for pathological narcissist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder), like you, to have also split personality disorder. Perhaps you are wasting too much time with your double entry software... Are you becoming stressed with the fact that your bonds are worthless whatever the bond holders wants LTC or USD? Take a break, it is time to fish and enjoy the outdoors at the expenses of the investors: https://i.imgur.com/FnK2LSi.png I'll post the numbers today or tomorrow. I have to reenter everything from day one because my attempts to fix the reporting have failed. I am seeing very large numbers (hundreds of thousands) that do not exist anywhere in the accounts/ledger and I have no idea where those numbers are coming from. I wasted a better part of a day reading about accounting and searching for errors in that damn thing. Looks like I have to waste more time on this. I'll rather be fishing and enjoying outdoors... Damn those fkn computers. and the comedy continues... LOL! What bonds are you talking about? James? Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: augustocroppo on June 08, 2013, 09:48:49 AM and the comedy continues... LOL! What bonds are you talking about? James? Oh sorry... It is not bonds... It is "tokens". I am sorry for my mistake. For a moment I forgot you not even deal with legit financial instruments. ::) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: EskimoBob on June 08, 2013, 10:24:24 AM and the comedy continues... LOL! What bonds are you talking about? James? Oh sorry... It is not bonds... It is "tokens". I am sorry for my mistake. For a moment I forgot you not even deal with legit financial instruments. ::) Dear little troll Augusto Croppo, because you enjoy making a complete fool out of your self on every opportunity you get, let me give you few more. Can you point me to a "legit financial instrument" in BTC/LTC. And here is one more, troll Augusto Croppo: Please amuse me and other readers by defining a "legit financial instrument". Let the comedy continue. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: augustocroppo on June 08, 2013, 11:11:24 AM Dear little troll Augusto Croppo, because you enjoy making a complete fool out of your self on every opportunity you get, let me give you few more. Can you point me to a "legit financial instrument" in BTC/LTC. And here is one more, troll Augusto Croppo: Please amuse me and other readers by defining a "legit financial instrument". Let the comedy continue. By legit financial instrument I mean a security which is operated and based on a legit contract. You are confusing the term legit with the term regulation. There are legit BTC financial instruments operated without regulation in Internet platforms such as Mt.Gox, MPEx, 1Broker, etc. This are just few which come in my mind right now. The contract for your "token" instrument is quite legally and ethically useless, beside the fact you never provided any evidence the ovens even exist. Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 23] Post by: EskimoBob on June 09, 2013, 08:05:56 AM Dear little troll Augusto Croppo, because you enjoy making a complete fool out of your self on every opportunity you get, let me give you few more. Can you point me to a "legit financial instrument" in BTC/LTC. And here is one more, troll Augusto Croppo: Please amuse me and other readers by defining a "legit financial instrument". Let the comedy continue. By legit financial instrument I mean a security which is operated and based on a legit contract. You are confusing the term legit with the term regulation. There are legit BTC financial instruments operated without regulation in Internet platforms such as Mt.Gox, MPEx, 1Broker, etc. This are just few which come in my mind right now. The contract for your "token" instrument is quite legally and ethically useless, beside the fact you never provided any evidence the ovens even exist. It's all in your head boy, it's all in your head... LOL Augusto Croppo, if you want to continue this sad circus of yours, start another thread and embarrass yourself all you want. Please, move on and troll somewhere else. You add no value to this thread. I'll close this thread until you 2 jokers (Mircea Popescu's sock puppet aka "PR scank" and little troll Augusto Croppo) take their meds and calm down. For the rest of you - If you have any question, please send me a PM and I'll publish my answers here, with your questions. Cheers! Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 10] Post by: EskimoBob on June 14, 2013, 10:27:00 AM Sorry, I forgot :) Here is the corrected P/L statement. Previous statement was missing the May Depreciation Code: Profit & Loss For Period Covering 01.05.2013 to 31.05.2013 Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 27] Post by: EskimoBob on June 30, 2013, 11:44:18 AM I am going to publish our reports on July 01 because I like to have the closing price for LTC:EUR and BTC:EUR.
Reports will be for the last 6 months and for the June. Please do not feed the trolls! Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 27] Post by: EskimoBob on July 01, 2013, 03:24:28 PM Here are the numbers for https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/ART
Here are the numbers for June 2013 and for the last 6 months. June-August are considered the vacation months around here so I did not expect any growth. As expected, we got fewer firing gigs but wheel got some action, so we did better than month before. Revenue was up from 122,29 to 210,66 and net income rose form 55,98 to 138,51. Wheel use was up from previous 40 by €100, while kiln use dropped by 11,69 to 70,60. Code: ART Income Statement For Period Covering 01.06.2013 to 30.06.2013 Here are the numbers for the first half of the 2013 Code: ART Balance Sheet 30.06.2013 ART Income Statement For Period Covering 01.01.2013 to 30.06.2013 Code: Revenues Profit & Loss For Period Covering 01.01.2013 to 30.06.2013 Code: Revenues Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 32] Post by: EskimoBob on August 06, 2013, 03:29:50 PM As mentioned in previous month report, summer is really slow around here and as expected, everything slowed down even more in July. We decided to closed the shop for few weeks and enjoy the summer as everyone else.
Code: Income Statement For Period Covering 01.07.2013 to 31.07.2013 Code: Balance Sheet 31.07.2013 1 BTCw € 77,80 1 LTCw € 2,26 Shares outstanding: 99000 Equity per share 0,10379505 EUR (0,045927013 LTC) Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 32] Post by: rustyh17 on September 23, 2013, 02:20:14 PM EskimoBob,
With LITECOINGLOBAL closing, what are your plans for maintaining this asset? I am a major shareholder of the 99,000 outstanding shares. A proactive and complete plan for transition to another exchange or for liquidation of this asset is requested forthwith. Please advise. Thanks, Rustyh17 Title: Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 32] Post by: EskimoBob on September 23, 2013, 05:18:41 PM EskimoBob, With LITECOINGLOBAL closing, what are your plans for maintaining this asset? I am a major shareholder of the 99,000 outstanding shares. A proactive and complete plan for transition to another exchange or for liquidation of this asset is requested forthwith. Please advise. Thanks, Rustyh17 I have all the e-mail addresses and most have LTC addresses attached for verification. There is a new LTC exchange in the works https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,6068.0.html I advise everyone to keep their cool and hopefully there is a painless way out of this mess. I'll be updating our official thread https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,980.0.html or use ltcglobal messaging system to keep you all posted. BTW, I am closing this thread for now. Please use forum.litecoin.net form now on. |
