Bitcoin Forum

I came across some site which is like a bitcoin washing site but peer to peer, the site itself acts like an escrow and allows people to trade apparently 'dirty' bitcoins(maybe from hacked wallets im thinking or stolen, scammed etc) for 'clean' bitcoins. Now i don't know if it's legit the whole idea of it. I always thought bitcoins were anonymous either way why would someone even do that and lose 30 coins?

Although I'm quite new to this stuff so if anyone knows more about this stuff I'd be happy to hear your opinions/experiences on this.

asking for so much upfront is obviously fishy

im thinking the website itself will scam you and then some how say its some anonymous person on the other side of the escrow that done a malle attack.. where in reality their was no person on the other side of the trade.


i would stay far far away from sites like that, too many red flags

if anyone wants to mix coins. they just create a new account on a legitimate exchange. deposit coins and then withdraw.. the withdrawal coins will be different and the fee is well under 1%.

even dodgy drug dealers wouldnt trade at a 60% loss just to swap coins

No one would do such a thing. Even hackers that have stolen thousands of coins won't be that desperate to use such a service. People can simply mix their coins in a quick fashion without leaving much dust behind. If you want to do it thoroughly, then you can do it in a slow manner and then it will be even harder to track them, if ever.

wow this sounds like a big time scam!

they prob keep your 50 bitcoin and then just not respond to you. All it takes
is one sucker and the whole thing was worth it.

after this tx there are other 50 coins to clean :D it's a sort of perpetual exchange :)
yes this is a pure scam, the classic honey pot, and even a coins can be "seized" after was send from the original owner, then just press "new wallet" or create one and you can clean by yourself, if you are a "criminal".
by the way, classical scam attempt.

You can't clean by yourself, you need to send the coins to a mixer. Having a new wallet will do no "cleaning" whatsoever.

The mixing services that people is using to clean its bitcoins aren't charging this high fees. I supose that this website is trying to scam users.

I've seen this website before, and from what I heard it's not a scam. I've never done this myself though (don't have the need) but it does seem very fishy, it doesn't add up.

I think you are talking about tainted and untainted coin (fresh mined coin) but i don't find any diffirence in usability of both coins. I have never heard someone selling untainted coin for higher price than tainted one.

The conspiracy in here, some people don't like being associated with any used bitcoins which is why they buy freshly mined ones. Is that so hard to believe? The price is steep though, most people would only give a 10% premium

Bitcoin is definitely not anonymous. I can imagine there are sites like that out there but folks could try, like, being honest and not have to deal with such things.

I assume established mixing services can only do so much volume but 50-80 coins should be easily achievable by them and it would cost a fraction of that.

I honestly don't care about fresh or dirty bitcoins.How can one even determines that ? There is not difference in the value of it anyway.I think I'm happy with my dirty bitcoins instead of taking a loss.Also that website which promises offering such services doesn't seem very legit.

explicitly not.
how could you gain 80 bitcoins by paying 50 bitcoins out?  ??? isn't this a lie? because basically nobody would pay out BTC80 to get BTC50 no matter dirty or clean. it wastes your money.

Although apparently there are some people who would need a service like this, still they are asking too much IMO.

I used to think some time ago that there is no difference between so called "clean" and "dirty" Bitcoins but I was wrong:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

Its a scam.

You can use mixing service, like bitmixer.io, which is existing for long time and reliable. Their minimum fee is 0.5% plus 0.0005 BTC for every forward address.

definitely a scam.

Sounds like an obvious scam.  I dont know how many time i have to repeat this and everyone knows it.  "if it sounds to good to be true it usually is"  ::)

It's not really too good to be true though, is it? Paying 80 coins in return for 50 is a fucking dismal deal in anyone's book. Still, plenty of room for scamminess all the same.

I don't care also even I don't know How I can know when I earn some Satoshi if it's dirty or clean.

I am not really convinced that it is necessarily a scam. There are a lot of "businesses" in the DarkNet which are observed by official authorities. Therefore, they could not convert those "dirty Bitcoins" into fiat money without much afford. So, they said themself: It is better to get 2/3 instead of nothing.
Also, there are some honest exchange services in the DarkNet which do such an conversion. The usual dirty/clean Bitcoins conversion rate is at 50-70%.

any examples? ??? we wanna know more about it.


i mean how could you ever gain another BTC30 by mixing out BTC50 to the others you don't know like in the darknet?
this seems to be majorly profitable but not even affordable to do and have a certain risk.  :(

You have to assume the exchange logs your activity. If it's legitimate then it's subject to law enforcement forcing them to supply those logs. In fact, it's hard to describe any exchange that doesn't comply with KYC requirements as legitimate. I expect the ones that allow you to withdraw any currency without providing ID will come under increasing legal pressure. If the owners of an exchange can be identified, assume any logs they have will be revealed to authoritied sooner or later.

Um, read the opening post. You lose 30 coins in the process of getting 'clean' ones back. If it was the other way around it would be such a blatant scam it wouldn't even be worth discussing at all.

Seems legit. I wonder why would someone trade their 80 BTC(dirty) for 50 BTC(clean). :O
Also, which website are you talking about?

i don't sure; clean and dirty doesn't really a matter since you cannot find the origin of the bitcoin easily.
FYI if we could figure out the dirty coins origin easily, then almost 100% of the scammer from such bitcoin fraud would be down already. and the value of bitcoin isn't ever going down because of the "dirty" or "clean" mattering. ???

got it, it is actually paying out BTC80(dirty) for BTC50(clean), i am now editing my reply to correct it.

Op, can you share with us the name of the washing site? I have never heard about such sites. It is charging 37.5% fees for converting  dirty to clean

They will just sell the 50 BTC they scammed from other people that thought they would get cheat dirty Bitcoins but received nothing.

But they will need your coins to keep the business alive

There have been cases where coins from major hacks were moved to exchanges only to get frozen there by the exchange and returned to its rightful owner.

This way, they can avoid exchanges with dirty coins, moving the problem to a new user. Also, all traces are gone for them.

Mixers are probably a much better bet, but I doubt they can clean large amounts of coins, die to a high percentage being your own coins.

This is crazy. I hope no one is willing to pay that much money for "clean coins". It shows the problem of Bitcoin with lack of fungible features, cause u got all those people being paranoid about the transaction history for their coins which sometimes are willing to pay an extra for those untouched coins. We need to do something about this so every coin is the same!

there are a lot of logical way to clean coin, also use an exchange "mint", or spend it and then cash out in fiat.
and even, after you receive in a new address, who care?
btc as fiat are cleanable without problems, this is not a bad point because the "Government" can seize fiat, but not all time btc :)

This is obviously a joke, how can they even know that the Bitcoin that the customer giving is clean.

It's pure nonsense. There are plenty of ways where you can get other(clean) coins in return for just a small amount. No one will fall for this. If there is some one falling for this, then that person is just dumb.

thats if you go for tier 2 registration..( converting to fiat )..

but if u set up a dummy account with a dummy email using a proxy just to deposit funds and then withdraw to a fresh bitcoin address.. you instantly have no taint following you.

it would require a court order to demand records of non fiat transactions. and by the time they get it the coins have passed 10 peoples hands.

i personally wish the druggies would just use Dashcoin and then let them chose if they want to circle jerk each other.. or swap it for bitcoin in their own exchanges, thus freeing bitcoin from any taint issues

This is exactly what I'm thinking too, I know some people would gladly exchange their coins for newly mined coins for a fee, but even for enthusiasts and collectors 30 BTC is too much.

OP can you give us a link?

I'm saying I don't think it's likely to remain that lax very long. I wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere down the line, exchanges were required to routinely submit their logs to the appropriate authorities. Whether this is likely to matter to you is a different thing. Most people don't need to protect themselves against anyone actively trying to figure out their finances. For the kind of mixing the majority of users should be doing, an exchange will do fine. (e.g. you're selling BTC face-to-face and don't want your buyer to know they could just bash you repeatedly with a wrench to get you to hand over your stash of hundreds or thousands of BTC they found out you have by following your transactions...)

edit: yes, yes, I'm just arguing for the sake of it...

most probably it is a scam (even without actually looking at it)
however the larger issue with bitcoin's fungibility is here to stay. this is only the beginning and this whole issue has only recently started being brought to light.
big fish scammers' bitcoins are easily traceable and they cannot simply withdraw the funds as presently most people naively think.
imagine stealing 5k bitcoins - how would you cash out? certainly not on an exchange and doing boatload of localbitcoins transactions is not feasible (and also traceable because you have to physically meet people and get discovered by police after some investigative work (cameras all around, witnesses, etc))
this is why bitcoin is flawed with its initial promise of true digital cash - and why it is a clever way of having actually more control from the government than fiat paper money which is perfectly fungible (and thus being on its way to extinction in the coming decades).
we are in the early stages of establishing a market for tainted bitcoins and discovering their true worth.
i would certainly not want to have tainted coins and the feds knocking on my door with questions. how much of a premium is it worth?
i could certainly understand if criminals who stole millions in bitcoins would happily cash out even with a 50% "loss" - it is better to have a million in the pocket rather than peanuts they can really cash out without raising suspicion (sure they can buy a lot of coke on black markets - but it is a fishy business selling the coke :) not to mention you cannot really buy a house or anything with high value with cash anymore).