Bitcoin Forum

Panic is kicking in, prepare to dive below 400.

Why do you only post a dump thread after price has already dropped?  You already have 6 threads on this page alone.  Makes you look like a troll.

Why do you consistently do this? Is someone paying you, or is this mental illness?

LOL, kwukduk, you just pounced on the drop didn't you? I saw it a miles away.

No, we won't go below 400. In fact, we will go up to 460 again in no time. Anytime you see a flatline, run for cover!

Actually, making this kind of thread makes it look like you are the one panicking. Just calm down and this is not something new in the crypto world that BTC rate goes up and down. We have seen this before.

I don't think we will go down below $400 . I mean maybe for quite some time bu then the price will remain steady between $400 - $600 this ear.no need to panick lol. ;D

In your dreams! It won't go sub $400 so don't get excited already, you'll end up getting disappointed once again. Let the price drop below $400 first, and then come back. Now you're just making yourself look like a troll.

kwukduck will never stop Respect for your hard work man,can you  be a little more creative in your posting

Pure panic.  ::)
https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/2/AAC5fkq8XjURUpfc9lfwtUUyyyg-CadNUd2nt_6h7rvBfQ/12/178306453/png/32x32/3/1452672000/0/2/panic.png/EIu80IcBGJmpCiACKAI/HOel7eDf-eHIbNGBFfORZDMF1Pho-qlke17bUhbtj4k?size_mode=3&size=1024x768

man you're talking the same shit you talked before, we were at 430 even before and you said prepare for sub 400, nothign happened, we went to 450 instead, now again

how naive are you(besides being a troll of course) to not think that they are playing the range of 430-450 like it was in the range 230-250?

500 wall will be broken soon, and the vlue will remain stable above it

i hope it does, i'm ready to pick up some cheap sub-400 coins.  I dont think word of the Cryptsy goxing has really become common knowledge yet.  once more ppl find out and start dumping we could see 350.

Looks like you are the only one who is in panic. :D Others don't care whether the price is going down or not, they see opportunities to buy at these lower levels. Every current price is nothing more than a joke, and you know that.

I think he have sold all of his coin below 400 before when there was november pump. ;D

The OP needs looking at IMO, loads of negative threads on the first page. I guess he is either paid to deramp or is trying to get cheap BTC.

Just ignore this cretin.

Under 400 i see only panic. I'm afraid too see 200 again  :-X

Although I find it extremely unlikely that we will go down more than to 380, for miners the price would still be more than sufficient - even after halving!!! Bitcoin speculators, whales and newcomers will drive the price up anyway sooner or later - due to all the upcoming news about "the halving effect". More and more so the closer we get to July20th. Problem is it is still a very long time until then. Enough time for some majors dumps, just meh because traders and whales need to go fishing.

I Lost My 100$... :( :(

Don't say just "lost" before you sell. You you boght BTC for long term, close pc and don't look the price. Return after 1 month just for take a look about, and don't worry ! Then if you are a short time trader, you need to fix a good stop loss and a valid take profit before start trading. And remember that trader could go short too... ;)

Bitcoin is asset so it can move on both direction hope to get 100$ profit within next week if we get pump. ;)

Just according to plans....  ;D

long time we stay around $420-$430, i think we never see again price below $400 and i'm sure this is new bottom of bitcoin price

Just because it goes down a bit it doesn't mean it will go all the way down to 400 or less without something to make basis of it. Not sure what the OP is getting but spreading these baseless rumors but its annoying to the eye to be honest here and it shouldn't be allowed in the first place to get to this point.

I would think many are ready for the dive this time. There has been forewarning from all fronts, whether it be from the media saying the market is going down and China's economy is below it's usual standards even from as every year at this time the price drops suddenly.
The writing was on the wall  :-\

Price can not simply be flat or one way movement and it was necessary to see some corrections in price.We will see many ups and downs in price even in coming months.I don't see the price dropping under $410 as in few hours there will be another upward trend which will push the price back to over $440 again.

There is nothing no be worried about this recent decline in price of Bitcoin.We will be on increase soon and 400 $ in bottom price this is what I believe.We are not going to see even under 420 $ all this is part of speculation.

Should I be waiting for it to go below 300 first? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1255868.msg13019348#msg13019348)

Lol he has made so many topics about the price crashing, eventually he will be 'right'

But there is no panic, let's see if it makes 400 at all.

Whew just because the price dips today, you consider it as diving below $400. For your clear and bright information, if there's really a panic we don't need hours to go beyond dipping. Look the current price is playing around $422-$425-$428 in the last 4 hours. Where's the panic dump there?

I dont see any strong rebounce yet and it's still going down. After so many fail predictions he can be right this time...

Probaby he is flat at the moment, and wait for buy at 200$

Theres no indication that it will drop below $400, in fact once it goes down to $400 it will rebound back to $460

the price didn't even come close to sub $400 it's time for you and your super team to retire from everything bitcoin related.

Many set their buy moves at around $410-$420. If that is the case it will just make the price up so no clear signs of getting into $400 price range like the OP is stating. More basis please Chief.

Stock markets are pulling back all over the world.  No surprise people decide to sell bitcoin as well.

You think that BTC price follow stock market? Have you some chart to probe this?

Well there are no charts to prove this, and the relationship is indirect. Falling stock markets almost always gets the majority panicking, which would mean they would likely convert all their assets to cash. This panic may also be one of the factors to cause the decline.

Price will not reach even near 400 $ so the wait to see it dropping under will never finish.This was a wave of accumulation which was to bring the price till here where they are right now.We will see a sudden increase again and to see price again above 450$ this is what actually will happen.

There is not such a panic everybody who is involved in BTC surely knows all this is part of the nature of Bitcoin's trading.There are huge ups and huge downs and this trend will keep continue till some more time until some kind of stability will come in price of BTC.

kwduck is a troll, but he's a legendary member so he can get away with it. His 1 liner FUD threads have the same value as all those new 1-account posts that post exactly the same thing, yet their threads don't get deleted while the 1-post account threads get deleted, when they are exactly the same thing. Every time someone dumps he makes a FUD thread, then disappears when he's wrong until the next dump. Guy is a walking joke, hilarious at this point.

But, did the price really go below 400$? I have seen a quite important drop, but it is still well above 400 and does not seem to sink more. I expect it to rebound, like the other two times before. Time to buy some more bitcoin, I think.

Let's see.

it should be the opposite, the fall of stocks should fuel bitcoin, this pump is just someone dumping to buy for instigating a "panic hands", in fact when the whole stocks thing crashed bitcoin increased

i guess what we are seeing is pure and simple market movements, there isno conspiracy every time the market move...

I am not worried, but i got a feeling we will go closer and closer to the 400 dollar.
There is quite some buy support there so i feel confident it's just a temporary dip.

maybe, as a contrarian indicator, he should post as much as he can to keep the price going up. I wouldn't mind if it works this way.

I'm definitely not worried and personally I'm not sure if we'll go below $400, however I can see how many of you are starting to panic hehe. This happens every year with Bitcoin, it takes big dips in price and then bounce back. Every year has been rising in price but not without its bumps so just be patience. Trading Bitcoin in the short term must be very stressful.

It won't fall below $400, to many people will go to scoop it up the moment they see $3 hundred anything

I don't hold big amount of coins right now but under 400$ is still  not possible under these circumstances. 400$ hold tight, there's no need to panic. If we see under 400 I'll gladly buy a bunch of coins though, it's very low possibility.

are you sure?! bitcoin will crash under $400 end of this match. i predict february-march is danger for bitcoin get crash and price will rise back in april ;)

I think about 415-420$ there is an important support.

Lots of people lost money with this kind of thinking.

if this will happen. prepare to buy. yeehaa.

Ehh no... there is no support in that range... check the order books. ...
No high value future for btc.
With Hearn leaving it's pretty much guaranteed we won't even hold $300...

Over the past week almost 2 million btc have been dumped.. that's insane..

It has reached $415 already within the last 2 hours from $430. That enough for most to bail their coins yet?
At this rate it will reach that $400 wall that everybody has been supporting by morning.  :-\

True...I never would have guessed it to fall below 430 in such a short time.  Would be surprising if it DOESNT go sub-400.

But you know what that means...

TIME TO BUY :D

If it goes to $400, anything below that would be a great buy. We will most definitely close the year at $500-600 so it should be a no brainer. However I don't think we'll see it, there will be strong support at $400.

Gosh... you people are so blind...
The whole thing is collapsing. It couldn't be any more obvious...

This is not new actually, this is like a repeat of what happened last year. By February BTC to USD rate dropped so no surprises on this one.

Is there an effect or impact with the exchange rate on what happened with Crytpsy?

Bitcoin back to $100?
I'd love to see that shit.

So what if its collapsing? we all know that btc flactuates is not really normal. but who cares? we are all bitcoin believer.

No.... He means Bitcoin. Not bitcoin.
It's over bro. Time to sell.
FOR REAL!

damn, gox 2.0 is here.   cryptsy 13,000 btc "stolen"

Suck my cock. Thanks you.

If i had to bet on whats going on, this is my theory:

Cryptsy moved the coins into those separate wallets (probably still on their servers somewhere), then reports the "theft / hack" to see how
far the FBI investigates or if FBI even gives a shit at all.   Cryptsy has left themselves a way out of blame by virtue of "computative error"  
IF the FBI decides to investigate and can find how the coins actually moved.  If cryptsy would have sold the coins and FBI investigated and
discovered it was an inside job by Cryptsy - then Cryptsy knows they would be screwed.  but by leaving the coins in those wallets
 (probably still on their servers) they are leaving themselves an out. Now cryptsy is simply waiting for the FBI's move - if FBI does nothing, then
Cryptsy can move, mix and sell the coins after the dust settles.



a REAL outside hacker would have used a mixing service and sold those coins by now.

Just when we start getting momentum in the upward direction, the whole world turns upside down.  >:(
Let's hope this cryptsy mess is sorted out quickly.

Well I don't really think that bitcoin is dead is always have been this way.
In January the price is always going to be down and later and the end of the year will grow.
So I am not panicking at all is just how bitcoin is.

Cryptsy 13,000 btc "stolen"? Is the reason that why Bitcoin is falling? All right we can assume that every exchange Bitcoin could be "stolen" now.

no it's impossible, miners will leave the game, and this mean bitcoin is doomed, unless it happen for few hours only or few days

You've not heard of difficulty adjustment?

The difficulty dropped several times in 2014 and 2015 when the price was weak. That's just how it works.

Most important lesson in crypto, don't panic sell. Take the the low value as opportunity to buy some more bitcoins  ;)

uhm, the price was still high enough to sustain mining, and there was no halving back then, so no, it's not comparable

there is a minimum that must be prevented otherwise you will get less diff yes, but it's mean also less miners which will lead to less security of the network

Panic selling is the worst thing you could do at this point. It's best to hold or buy in if you can. Halving is coming up so I'm expecting for the price to go up nearing that period and also after. The price might drop as well when the halving is actually happening.

Lol if you see so many trolls, there is surely something up.
Right now the advice is not to panic sell. Just wait and see what will happen.

If for one will hold unles if we go under the 400 dollar

No. Not solely because of that. But It cant help the cause.
Bitcoin is dead. Mike Herne Said it.
Its all about blockchain now. Bitcoin was a fun experiment but now its time to pack up and move on.
Nothing left to see here.

Who cares about the mining scam or any of the miners. Look out for yourself dude. Sell now while you still can.

Lower price means less security yes, but still a lot of it. Would Bitcoin still exist with half the security, or a third of it? I'm pretty sure it would.

Also, lower price means there is less value to secure, so less security is needed.

Halving may turn out to be an issue after a few more of them. This one won't be a big deal regardless of price. Even hypothetically $1K worth of Bitcoin in a block is something people would find worth trying to get.

Great, that's the explanation everyone should read. Craptsy behaviour is the worst seen in crypto world so far, everything has been calculated to try to save their arse. But we are not monkeys waiting for bananas.

There's always a bad hacker around to save an exchange responsibilities.  ::)

Why are you guys going crazy with this? Is not something new. I think we all have seen a bad drop out in the past.
This is actually not a big drop is still above the 400 dollars. I think is just stable for now I am not seeing going really that low.
This the beginning of the year you know so have some faith for bitcoin.

Well, if he keeps posting this over and over he will be right sometimes  ;D

Shadock idea, the more you fail, the more you can succeed next time!

People are weak, they will shit their pants when they see dumps as these. Normal traders see great opportunities to buy when the price is getting dumped to the ground, but others see it as a "confirmation" that Bitcoin will get down to $100-$200. :D

No not that low the lowest what bitcoin can go for now is around the 350 dollars. Is just better to see in that price.
Going really down is just difficult to go up again and with halving coming is just better to see a 500 dollars with bitcoin.
True that for traders is nice to see a low price to trade, but for holders they will just panic.

It's like taking the game-winning shot everytime, one day you'll be called clutch one you made one :)

There is a lot difference between holders. You have holders that just hold for a few months, and you have holders that will hold for years. Those who are holding for at least a few years don't panic because they are not planning to sell their coins any time soon. They look at the bigger picture. Holders that hold for a few months are the kind of people that do panic. They will most likely end up selling their coins. These people are not real holders to me.

I think people panicking over the drop is just silly to me. There's no need to panic if you believe in bitcoin.
Just continue to hold if you are panicking, you will regret this day that you're selling for $400

Im so disappointed to see that the price today is very low. but i dont believe that the price will going below $400
It should be increase again this following week.

Hey guys,i am not panic as the bitcoin price is falling to much but i am just afraid what if it keeps on falling? i bought some coins @ 455 USD and now the price is 409 USD,is there any expert here who can predict approximately what's going to happen now? just predicitons?
I am thinking of selling my coins if price hits 390 USD and that's enough loss for me.

We are near 400$. As i say 415-420 was lose . Now he will try to test an important psychological support at 400 area. Under, we well back shortly to 380$. But low week end volume could help price to bounce till 425-430.

I see this as an opportunity to buy some more cheap bitcoins  :D

Buy while others are on a panic and Sell when everyone is rejoicing, it could just be me :)

Sorry but holding is just stupid. If you're a true believer it's stupid because it's an opportunity to sell high buy low and make enormous profits when it rises again as you claim to believe.
However, belief in bitcoin is totally unwarranted,  the system is fundamentally flawed and rigged and the ecosystem has become corrupt to its core.

Increasing for what? Because stock market is crashing? Block halving?
Expect another dump incoming next week.

Price is $401.29 get ready to jump from the nearest tall building guys we are going sub $400/sarcasm


Bitcoin is not for the weak handed!

i just woke up and see that the bitcoin price touched $400.49 just now. i really hope we can hold the $400 price level. the comming hours will be interesting.

that is how I see it as well. The support cluster between $350 and $400 looks solid enough, so that we would need a chain of very negative events in order to break it. So far it has been tested twice from the upside and always provided a support. It should work well another time as well. I expect a lot of buyers to pop up, if the price drops below $380 in order to catch more coins at discounted rates.

$387!  :o  Did I miss it go lower?  Hoping to catch the price at its lowest so I can buy in  ;D

Set your order at $100, hope to grab a few and sell them on the final bounce back to $240

There seem to be a lot more opportunities these days.  :-\

This guy is just a retard I guess. The funny part is that he doesn't even have a sig. He is just a spammer.

He believes he can talk the price down.
Somebody who confuses cause and effect.  :)

It is happening now people  ;)
$400 now on bitfinex!
Buckle your seatbelts it is going to be a bumpy ride but enjoy it while it is rising and it looks to be for the entire rest of today. Next stop $450  ;D

It was only a matter of time before it bounced back up. My only regret is I didn't have any extra money to buy bitcoin while it was that low of a price, so I'll just have to settle for the small amount of bitcoin I was able to gain during the time period.

yes! we have reached $400 again just now. it feels good that i have bought myself some coins to benefit from the crash to below $360. let's see how long we can maintain the current $400 price level.

Didn't last very long.

Well the Buy orders are still greater than the Sell so it could still go a bit higher :)

bitstamp went below $400 again but is now climbing back up as huobi is pumping like there is no tomorrow. bitfinex just reached $413 and it won't stop there i guess.

it was not possible, people tend to forget the importance of the halving, the price will not decrease under 350, ever, unless some catastrophic event appear, like all farms implode or something

new minimum this year will be 700 at least

LOL.

Just Wait.

700 the minimum for this year? huh? for now it was 350 dollars. I think if we see bitcoin after the halving to 1000 dollar.
I think that 700 dollar will be a good stable for bitcoin, is never sure with it.

We will see if something really good is going to happen after the halving.

When is the halving?

(litecoin halving price pumped months before...hope btc doesn't mess up like that did)

i don't know why people tend to compare it with he litecoin halving, litecoin halving was from 50 coins to 25, is a totally different thing, also litecoin has a greater supply, this mean in theory a lower value per cois in comparison with bitcoin


so you're implying that we are going down again, for no reason right?

Did you seriously just said 700 because it's 350 x 2? I hope not, you obviously have no idea. Just because halving means half of the reward, doesn't mean the price will double, by your logic bitcoin would have died when it hit less than 200$ right? because the price was too low compared to the reward.

Why is it almost every single one of you guys just ignore the utterly broken fundamentals?

no, i was saying 700 since we were at 450, because it appear to be a nice spot, if you take the diff increase that may occur from now until july

estimating 20% increase per month, mean 150% increase basically, so 250B diff, this mean that their profit will be like the s5 is right now, utterly worse

I am not aware of any broken fundamentals.
Could you enlighten me?☺

Bitcoin doesn't scale.
Mining operations are becoming more and more centralized.
Mining is an inefficient wasteful and toxic process for the environment.
The vast majority of coins is owned by a hand full of people.
Confirmations are too slow for every day use.
Transactions are fully traceable,  not anonymous.
Need I go on?

kwukduck enlighten you? hahahahah that's a good one man.  :D

Here we go over 400! That was real fast, lol. I'm sure old minds couldn't make a single penny from this wave. They hodl when it went down and hodl again when it went up again. :D
You'll never understand the basics of trading, old minds.

Those who wait patiently will reap the rewards much slower than those who take opportunity by the hand and seize it. Carpe diem, my firends.

Nice to see the bitcoin price climbing back up from its recent fall

According to preev.com, we're cracked $410 a few times, maybe we'll be able to finish the day this high. It keeps inching down underneath $410 every so often, but this is more entertaining to watch than TV.

I wonder what caused the sudden surge though...

What makes you think the fundamentals are broken? Bitcoin is doing better than it ever did. I think you are part of a very small minority that just hopes that Bitcoin will fail. What are you supporting? BitcoinXT?

I don't really care the price but it's fun to watch. Usually I immediately exchange my Bitcoins for national currency. High prices are useful for me, when the price is so low I don't panic sell and wait for price to get back on track again. Last week I didn't sell for example. Who sell at sub 400 in the block halving year anyway?

Kwuks usual doomsaying..  big hollow empty statements

Doesnt scale to *what level Kwuk ?  Big enough to handle what volume of transactions ? Why not ?  Which better system *does scale to the volume you want ?

Mining is inefficient ?  Hahah, So printing notes and metal coins, and driving them all over the physical place in combustion fuelled vehicles, guarded by humans, and destroying and reissuing those notes every few years is clearly a better cleaner more efficient system ?

Owned by a few, what, you mean like our current systems where 5% owns more than the other 95% ? 
So you want a new currency where everyone gets a free handout at the start ?  perhaps free beer too ?

You do know that credit card transactions arent "confirmed" in realtime either ?  As a CC accept-er, the merchant takes on a charge-back risk that can be *6 months after the sale was "confirmed".   Just because the little swipe machine says "Approved" doesnt mean the merchant actually has his money..  Bitcoin is actually a significant *improvement in this regard.   

Want faster *confirmations - just add in a 3rd party who will accept the (miniscule) risk in covering the tiny fraud percentage for as long as it takes the blockchain to confirm things.   Or you could try to withdraw/transfer $10k from a bank and see how long it *really takes them to "confirm" that you can have your money.

Transactions are traceable to *addresses, of course, they have to be.  Addresses are not traceable to *people.  Anonymity is quite easy if you want to take some precautions.   Once again, a misrepresentation of the facts to suit your agenda.

I think its good that we have bears around, we need people to look at the other side to keep from getting caught up in groupthink, but you arent a bear, you're a miserable excuse for a teddy bear with one of those pull-the-string-and-repeat-stock-phrases-in-a-squeaky-voice toys.   If you would actually put some moments of cognition into your posts, you might not get laughed at so much.   

But your history shows there is little chance of that.

Couldn't agree more. Besides that why would someone log on on Bitcointalk everyday for months if not years to tell others to sell their Bitcoins?  Its obvious for anyone with a brain that kwuduck is a butthurt troll. I believe he sold a big stash at 1$/btc or something. He has 0 credibility on this forum.

What you talking about  :o It was as high as 420's last night. It has scaled back down to 410 but still a good jump up from recent weeks and not too soon as I would say.

- It doesn't scale to any level that could be considered significant in the world of finances. We can barely get the 3tps, which isn't close to the theoretical 7tps. If you compare that to even small payment providers it isn't even anything significant.


- Only 8% of the money supply is physical. We have moved on from your ancient view of money a long time ago.


- Inequality is far worse within the bitcoin community than in regular fiat systems. Inequality will aholways be and isn't bad per se, what is bad is that bitcoin operates more like a ponzi in this sense. A small hand full of users was given big handouts right from the start when other people weren't even aware of it. At least with fiat everyone has aware more or less fair start. You do work aware earn depending on that. Early adopters got Rich by doing nothing.


- Credit cards have had their best time. Banks are deploying newer more intuitive and faster payment methods every day. There are many systems far worse than bitcoin in this sense, there are also systems far better.


- No.. I don't want a 3rd party. One of the core ideas behind bit coin was getting rid of the middle man, your solution: 'add a middle man'...?


- No, correlating addresses has become quite easy with all the blockchain tools available to us now. You only need to connect one of them to a real-world identity.
What agenda are you talking about? All i would like to see is bitcoin get back on it's tracks of being an innovative revolutionary system that solves problems we have in our current monetary system and that is available to everyone.


- Yet, blind groupthink is what's going on here on a big scale, everybody ignoring or lying away problems in order to sell their bags to the next fool. How about we address and resolve these issues before we start to promote it to the average Joe again...

1)scaling is fixable easily, just increase block size, but for now there is no need to do it becuse otherwise we get bigger block and expensive fee for nothing since there is no real adoption for a 8mb block, for example

2)the energy used to sustain the network is a backup of the value itself, so it is autoregualted, no issue here

3)again this is because, bitcoin is still young compared to fiat were inequality was always present and i'm sure it was much worse at the beginning, same thing here, bitcoin will have better equality when there will be more adoption

4)every new method is not getting any confirmation, because simply any method of fiat money that run on those know circuit, visa and mastercard can be chargeback up to 180 days, and their confirmation time is terrible compared to bitcoin

5)faster confirmations is not needed, when the malleability issue will be solved, merchants will be able to accept zero conf, without third party, and be safe like you're safe with visa and mastercard

other points are again stupid problems, non-real-issue

Well I guess our favorite FUD poster had a really lucky day as Mike Hearn posted his FUD on the new york times and the price crashes to sub 400. If this didn't happen, it would have never happened, therefore ducky had an insanely lucky strike. Well not really lucky as he has been announcing this a ton of times until it actually happened.

It's fixable yes, but it requires a hard-fork, which could be problematic if there's no consensus within the community. The dynamic or scheduled blocksize increase should have been implemented years ago to decrease the risk of split chains and all the drama. The longer we wait with this, the bigger the risk of it resulting in a complete catastrophe.


True, but i believe there are more green ways to sustain the network than using PoW, however green, i'm not a big fan of the alternatives i've read about so far for economic and security reasons.


Let's hope so, it naturally balances out but i think it may just be too big to distribute somewhat fairly across the global community. Considering the value bitcoin could get with mass adoption this could be very dangerous i think.


This comes back to my argument that development has stagnated... "X will not be an issue when Y is solved." That's all nice and flowers and honey, but Y1,2,3,4... do not get addressed, as such, the problem remains.

all those fixes are not there yet, because apparently consensus is not working as expected, everyone want to have advantages from  the next fork, miners are the first, this is the real problem, the consensus mechanics seems to actually give birth to some greedy identity...

It's pump and dump. The price is not realistic this way.
People are too confused what's happening. Let's home soon it's more stable

First of all, who are you, and what have you done with the real KwukDuck ?  :)  

This is the first time Ive seen you actually make *any effort to respond intelligently instead of just ignoring responses to your noise and posting more of it.
Congratulations, keep this up, and people might eventually believe you arent just a cracked record player.


"Considered Significant in the world of finance" is a bit of a vague term though.  *What world of finance ?  NYSE ?  Visa ?  M-Pesa (Do you know of it ?  - It runs on SMS messages, with hard limits caused by the mobile network tower capacity, but that doesnt stop it from being a very useful and successful payment system *right now)

Bitcoins *initial iterations were never intended to have the starting capacity to outright replace any major current part of the "Finance Worlds" present operations.  The deliberate limits placed on the protocol were *chosen to make it workable without overloading the bandwidth and CPU power available to small home users at the time.  Nobody would run the software if their computer and network connection immediately slowed to a crawl.

I hope you have looked at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability ?    Your blanket statements like "Bitcoin doesnt scale" make me wonder.   People used PC's with hard limits (640k Ram, 2 Gb Hard drives etc) in them for many years without being concerned that "PC's dont Scale !".  When solutions were required, they were chosen.  Choosing a solution too far prior to the point that it is required makes it more likely that the best solution will not yet have been determined.

The present disagreement in the dev community over the "right" solution says to me that one that a majority can agree upon has not been found yet, *and that there is no present need *for one to be found *right now.  The interested parties obviously feel that there is still time to keep thinking about it before settling on one, despite the cries of hyperbolic naysayers that all potential future issues be addressed immediately before Bitcoin can "Succeed".  In short, cross bridges when you come to them, not before.  

I can see that there *is significant effort being put towards solving this future issue, and am confident that it *will be solved, despite the pessimistic cries of those who seem to have no memory of other systems limits being solved just fine when required.  Demanding a final answer *now is unnecessary and alarmist.


I am quite aware that a majority of money exists purely as numbers in a computer.  Even that 8% of physical cash uses a ridiculous amount of energy, effort, and environmental impact to process and handle.  I doubt that the wattage used by the Bitcoin network would even compare to the cost of the fossil fuel required to move that 8% of physical cash around, not to mention the vault constructions, guards, printing, destruction, accounting proceedures, records and so on it additionally requires,  

It would be nice to be able to compare the power used by the existing networks to handle their computer transactions in a "watts vs transactions processed" manner, but unfortunately, unlike Bitcoins "Network hash rate" number which is available to all as part of the difficulty algorithm, There is no easy way to measure the power consumption of the present finance system networks.   This allows critics to point in horror to the estimated megawatts used by Bitcoins crypto network based on the public hash rate, while actually having no idea of the power used by the legacy bank networks for comparison.

Knowing just a few data points from a friend of mine who works in a large bank processing data center, such as the multiple shipping container-sized TurboCharged V16 Diesel standby generators that are required to keep power on to (just that one site of many in this country alone) facility in the event of grid failure, and nightly human-assisted batch processing of transaction queues using virtual machines running ancient COBOL code that nobody is game to even try replacing, I would guess that their network efficiency (watts vs transactions) would be "very low".   But this is just guesswork, I doubt they even know themselves.



A difficult statement to prove or disprove.  By "Fiat Systems", do you include the government creating billions out of mid air in quantitative easing measures ?  Banks generating interest on money that they never had in the first place ?  Arbitrage networks ?  International Loans where countries merely pay the interest for decades knowing that depreciation will make it far easier to pay off the capital with future money that is worth less ?  All of these contribute to the rapid devaluation of the small amounts of "cash" held by the little guys, while the bigger players make billions from their manipulations of this "unreal" money.   Do you include all of these in your "Inequality" ?


The "Ponzi" argument was dead and buried years ago and using it just makes you look foolish.  No doubt because it is one of the few "scary" financial terms that the general public *thinks it understands is "Bad" (like "Pyramid" and "Bubble" !).  

A ponzi is a zero-sum game that generates little or no value itself and pays early-investors purely from the ongoing enticement of new "investors" to provide an inflow of cash.   The Bitcoin network already provides actual inherent value as a secure global payment processing system that is in use by many daily, and has many other additional value-generation functions that people find useful.  

Thus it completely fails to meet the definition of a Ponzi scheme and resembles it in no way other than the superficial "Early adopters make more profit than latecomers" that fools the ignorant.   You might as well call *all Stockmarket's Ponzi schemes, since they too reward early adopters more than later ones.  

*No early users were given "handouts".  They *invested their time, interest, energy, electricity, processing power and bandwidth into a "startup" concept long before the majority took it seriously.  It was not hidden, and there were no pre-mines.  Anyone was free to join the network and generate coins with their "CPU miners" at any time.  You might as well complain that "everyone wasnt aware" in the 70s of how big Microsoft/Apple would become later on, and so present shareholders of those companies should be divested of their current stock in the name of fairness.


Bull, they took a risk with their prior-earnings and available-to-risk resources on a project with a high initial likelyhood of failure.  That willingness to take an early chance is what powers *all innovation and capital gains.   If someone paid $1000/coin (or a stockmarket-company-share) today, held on to them throughout the subsequent waves, and sells them for $2000 each at whatever future time, did they "Do Nothing ?   Of course not, they deprived themselves of the ability to use that invested money for other wealth-generation in the meantime, and having made those resources and confidence available to whatever project/company for the duration, are well deserving of their capital gain.   Whether they purchased their early coins with cents, dollars, or cpu cycles - They "earned them at the price prevailing at that time".   "Doing nothing" is a stupid argument used by those who think you need to labour to "earn" wealth.


Im sure there are.  Can you name some that will benefit anyone other than the banks ?  Not that they *should.  If the banks are paying to develop these new systems, they deserve the profits from doing so.  Bitcoin is merely a *competing system that is being openly developed, and will profit anyone who participates intelligently.   It is a democratic payment system that is available for all to assist with its operation.   I dont know of any others (excluding copycat altcoins based on bitcoins innovative tech).


No, I dont *want an additional middleman either.  But if *you want some feature *now that the present network does not currently offer, you *can add to it if you want it that badly -  Crying that the current network presently doesnt offer infinite scalability, instant confirmations, or some other lack doesnt mean it cant be done.  It may be included in the future, but in the meantime the applicable statement is "There's an app for that" (or could be one if enough want it)  :)


Just like financial investigators can "follow the money" through shell corporations, offshore accounts and other money laundering systems.  Any system that allows the movement of large amounts of anonymous money will be attacked for providing a laundering service.   Nonetheless, they still exist.  If you use legitimate established exchanges that comply with "know your customer" requirements, then of course you are trackable - you provided the ID to someone.  If you use local-bitcoins (or equivalent) to buy/sell your coins from someone who does not comply with KYC requirements, and do not leave coin-to-ID tracks, then the network will not inherently reveal your identity.  Its not that hard.  Yes it takes some effort, but it can be done.  

So the statement "Bitcoin is not anonymous" is completely erroneous.  The Bitcoin network *IS anonymous.  Using non-anonymous exchange or other services compromises that anonymity in the same way an Alias can be blown by a single careless statement.  A network cannot protect you from this, it is up to you.


Riiight.  And you *arent a known bitcoin shorter attempting to profit from downturns in its exchange rate, with a history of making demonstrably false statements as if they are fact and confidently proclaiming that you have analysis teams and secret contacts with insider knowledge of upcoming market movements.  pardon me.. but *Bullshit.


What have *you done to "resolve" these issues other than talk crap at every opportunity, shouting from the rooftops whenever the exchange rate goes down, and strangely disappearing during any periods of increase ?   And where do you see any *credible people "promoting it to the Average Joe" ?   Only the ones who are in it for their own personal gain and treating it purely as a speculative vehicle..  

Yes, there *are lots of such people, but your implied inclusion of them (and yourself) as "we" suggests that *all participants in this venture are driven by the same nefarious motivation simply to profit at the expense of later adopters.   Do you consider *all stock market traders in the same vein ?  

Many bitcoin proponents actually see the proven repeated flaws in the current collapse-like-clockwork financial systems and are working to try and develop something new - it may too have present and future flaws that will need to be overcome, but it is starting on completely different foundations than the current known-to-fail fiat systems, and so presents the *opportunity to grow into something that might prove to benefit the world beyond the short sighted petty "Please profit me now" concerns of the day-traders.

Not that I expect you to believe that.  Your poor attempts at manipulative word tactics are as transparent as glass to anyone with a modicum of comprehension.

A nice try at a reasoned response, but I see the "Lying to sell your ponzi bags to the greater fool" message is re-emerging at the end here.  
Is the strain of having to think for a while and express oneself rationally instead of spamming emo arguments getting a bit too much for you to sustain ?

I can say IMF chief Chriistine Legard is  buying  http://www.coindesk.com/imf-paper-preserve-digital-currency-benefits/ (http://www.coindesk.com/imf-paper-preserve-digital-currency-benefits/)

but ii will say Baidu is funding btc exchange project,big news,if you know what Baiidu is http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-baidu-fintech-accelerator/ (http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-baidu-fintech-accelerator/)

Hate to say it but fiat has just as much inequality as Bitcoin does, they were just earned in different ways.

http://puu.sh/mEWed/e01e63b107.jpg

Back on topic, we are officially sub-400 again.  I expect us to plummet to 385 for a while, then decide if it wants to hold steady and wait for a rally or fall til we find a support point.  If I were day trading I'd sell and try to make a few bucks on the panic that will follow.  There's good support at the moment, but I expect people to start pulling orders when they see 400 didn't hold

Fully agreed, Bitcoin and fiat have approximately the same amount of inequality. Things will always be unequal; it's just a fact of life.

I wouldn't say that we'll go as low as $385 again, I assume something more like $390 or higher. There are probably too many people intent on not losing all their money from the upswing, but it is entirely possible it will go that low (And looking at the markets right now, you're probably right).

LOL!

Did it just bottom out at $390? I saw a posting on the wall observer thread and some are posting crying memes
It is Friday so am watching the price too closely too and won't all night as it was to depressing at the end of this week already  :(

Look at the volume that occurred North of $390 on Stamp, Finex, and look that the volume that has taken BTC back down to here. Volume on break out was much bigger than volume on correction to beneath the break out, right?


a) The pump was totally fabricated to begin with repleat with FU moves to shake out longs (I know all about that as my long trade was shaken out the game).

b) How many BTC traders so you think bought into BTC merely chasing momentum, are now bag holding and chomping at the bit to get out their trades.


I have never seen such a horrible looking BTC 4hr chart in a long time. All that upside, wiped out so quickly, and on so little (USD) volume. Sure, it may well bounce a bit....but just so many market participants right now will be desperate to get out with their shirts on their backs. The big fucking MASSIVE red candle which always dwarves the green candles from the previous move up, is yet to come.

Bitstamp and Bitfinex are part of a cartel so....who trust them?!!?! :)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1205564.0

its sad that the price is lower than 400 again, i hope there will be a huge rise in a few weeks

I noticed that too from a post I put up a few days ago about bitstamp.
I realized their price ticker stopped all the sudden for 5-10 minutes which I found odd to say the least.
Then after I check that time outage the price dropped by $5. That is what I was waiting for so I can buy.
They did that on purpose.

Jesus Christ so many kwuduck threads, this guy must work here full time advocating the doom of Bitcoin. I wonder how many threads he has done in 2015 alone, if someone counts them let me know.

Looks like OP wins this time... of course when you throw out 10 theories a day of course youll be right some times