Bitcoin Forum

I keep seeing people say that Paypal is reversible.  If it is done right, it is not reversible.  We have used Paypal for some of our business for a long time and many people have tried to reverse charges on us.  First, make the transaction clearly for a service, not for an item.  Paypal states clearly in their terms that refunds cannot be done on intangible objects.  For example, we used to do website promotion.  Every once in a while a customer would try to snatch their funds back and this is how it would go.  The dispute would start and it does take the funds back, that is because that part is automated and it then throws the case into a queue for review by Paypal.  If you leave that alone, you may lose your funds.  As soon as the case is opened, call Paypal and tell them that your client has attempted a refund on an intangible product.  They may ask a few questions for details, but the end result of that call will be the same, they put the funds right back into your account.  What happens to the other guy is none of your concern,  most of the time they take their funds back, but whatever, you still got paid for the service you provided.

Key to Non-reversible Paypal transactions is to do the transaction for a service and follow up if their is a case started.  One two minute phone call and it is done.  And, BTW, if you feel like Paypal is going to only do this for you a few times, you are wrong, it is their policy and they do it every time.  

Yes you can cancel the dispute but then saying that paypal is not reversible is not true. You yourself has stated that indeed it has a chargeback. What you are trying to say here is that you can prevent the chargeback from happening.

Point taken, I will rephrase.  Yes, someone can reverse the charges, but, with the right actions, you can always get your funds back.  And I will add that this only takes as long as it takes you to get to the phone.

You can reverse payments by :
1) Charging your accounts through credit cards, and then reversing that transaction
2) Claiming your account was hacked
3) Using an actually hacked account, is relatable to point 2

So yes, there are plenty of ways to reverse a transaction, even if you send as "Gift".

OP what you told in context is very right but what your point is wrong.
Paypal is reversible : Right
Case In your Favor : Yes, if dealing with Tangible Goods.

what overhead is here , is un-necessary tension of phone calls to Paypal , and rude life.

Yes, but the end result is the same.  Some of our clients did use the credit card company to reverse the charges, but that phone call to Paypal put the money back into our account and then Paypal chased them, or maybe they did not, it does not matter.  The point is that we got paid for our services no matter what and the same is true if you use Paypal for something on here.

True, we dealt with a large number of clients and made at least three calls per week.  What is here on the forum is a little different.  Most of the cases where someone does not want to use Paypal on here is for a one-time transaction that will result in a large profit for someone.  I would have no problem at all making a single phone call to finish up the process if I did something like that on here and the call takes less than five minutes if there is no one holding.

If we do say that we were dealing with intangible objects, PayPal will put the funds back in the account? I always thought that PayPal does not support the sellers of digital goods and many users had their transactions reversed even while dealing on Ebay. That's the reason ebay does not allow such transactions.

I cannot speak about eBay, but with Paypal it is just the opposite.  They support the use of their service for all things, but do not support intangible items through the dispute system, that is why they simply put the funds back and move on.  In their opinion, there is no way to determine with any alacrity which party is at fault on a intangible item and automatically support the seller.

I want everyone to know that i have no current deals going on through this site or Paypal.  I am not trying to promote Paypal in any way, although they have served their purpose for us for years.  I just want people to know that if someone wants to give you 5 BTC for $5 and you need to use Paypal, you are fine.  If they reverse the charges, just call Paypal and it will be fixed on your end.  I cannot say what happens to the other party.  They may or may not get the money back and in the event of a sale, you should not care.  I know that eBay often sides with the seller and still gives a refund to the buyer, it is the cost of doing business and keeping both parties for future business.

I always steer clear from paypal unless I absolutely have to! Been burned a few times from them.

What are you telling them? You sold Bitcoin?

paypal is like an escrow, i will never stress to repeat this, they just act as an escrow party between two private, the same as an escrow of bitcoin

so if thre is an issue you talk to the escrow and try to solve it, it's the same in case of bitcoin

Is bitcoin treated as intangible goods? If so, you cannot reverse your payment after you pay for the bitcoin?

of course it is, but you simply cannot stop the chage backs.They have a simple protocol for reversing the payments and due to abundant scammers in bitcoin and the whole crypto world you wont be given any special consideration.I m not talking bout rare cases but nothing could be said when the user's account was hacked ..lol

From the PayPal noob sticky, just as valid now:

You says that you have to call PayPal to explain what you sold. If you tell them that you sold bitcoins, you will regret what you did and you would have preferred to don't call them :D. They will ban your account and thus you won't get a refund.

you spread a terrific lying.
why? you not find a good scammer?
there are also other cases like cex.io code!

it's full of user ready to pay with paypal here...only to scam your btc.
a post like this one is really bad... hundreds dollars are scammed every day with this type of transactions....

What is defined as an intangible product? What if you are actually trying to sell a good and not a service? Do you just lie to them? What if the scammer talks to them and says that it was a physical good?

With Bitcoin, you don't need to worry about those and it is completely irreversible. PayPal here can reverse it, and it takes time and effort to get the money back. With Bitcoin, it is completely stress free, the scammers can't reverse on you.

bottom line is this -

Its a pain in the ass unless you know / trust the person. Even if you win a dispute the fact you even have to go through that sucks.
I know cause I have dealt with jerks on ebay trying scam tactics and it always sucks dealing with it.

Paypal is reversible but I guess some users think it's just a click of a button, it's not as simple as that, it's even not so simple as with a credit card for example, where your claims are much faster and refunds are easier to obtain if you claim the charges are not authorized. In more than 10 years I've only claimed once and it was because I've paid for a digital good (WP theme) that offered a 30 day refund or something like that. I wasn't very glad with the product so I "sent it back". The seller kinda took its time and the money didn't arrive for days and days when I finally opened up a claim. After some hours, a day perhaps, I got my money back.

It can be reversed very easily.
All you have to do is call up PayPal and tell them that you were scammed then the transaction will be reversed.
It will show up as a refund on the sellers payment logs.

Wow, you guys have no idea how to deal with Paypal.  It is that simple and that is why your funds are not returned.  In the 10 years we have used Paypal, they have never failed to return any funds that were reversed.  It happens in less than ten minutes of getting the operator on the line.  And, yes, for those that are stupid, if you say the wrong things to Paypal they will close your account.  For those that are utterly stupid, perhaps you should not do any online business.

Ok, you guys wins, I officially give up on trying to get everyone to see reason.  I have worked with Paypal since near the beginning and sold every thing from donationary statuses to Bitcoins.  Since day one I have never failed to get my money back in a dispute or charge back. 

Despite all of that, I have been completely unable to get anyone to see how this works.  It has created nothing but tension for those involved.  If you guys insist that this cannot be done, despite the proofs I have offered, then so be it.  I do encourage everyone to explore every avenue to doing any kind of business before taking the word of one or several other people.  Do your own investigation and see what happens.

Therefore, since this is helping no one, I concede.  Believe whatever you guys want and I will let you have your opinions without argument from me.  Anyone that removes negative trust from my account that was based on this argument, I will, in turn, remove my negative trust from them.  It is up to you guys what you want to do.