Bitcoin Forum

This is why I got into bitcoin.  Coming to the US soon too.  I'll never pay a bank to hold my money.

This is shocking news. Base on what they said, their doing this to hit the 2% inflation target in which it has been at 0.5% at the moment but isn't this a wrong move? IIRC inflation devalues the money and shows a weak economy and their trying to increase inflation instead of decreasing it? Have I missed something here? Although this would be a good opportunity for more market user of BTCitcoin.

Link to news: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/29/bank-of-japan-shocks-markets-by-adopting-negative-interest-rates
Link to live news: http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/jan/29/volatile-trading-bank-japan-negative-rates-live

It's not so shocking.   This has been the norm in Japan for the last 20 years.  I'm sure they have had negative interest rates already within that period.   Negative interest rates will cause corporations who currently hold cash balances to invest in something and help to spur the economy.

This is coming soon to the west.

No coincidence that we saw the selling end in bitcoin and a new rally start just afer this was announced.

Now that Hearn is finished we are going to have an insane rally past 500.  Once the west follows Japan BTC will easily go past $1,000

Good times ahead

Somehow i see it on positive because putting a negative interest rate causes that people have to move the money into something where they can actually earn something and not keeping them into the bank for who knows how many days, even if at the end some worries about are normal, because it depends on each single case and not on general

Does this also count for general people or only for large instututions and corporations?

I don't think it is wise to charge people for having some reserves for harsh times, you may see a lot of people run into trouble if they do unwise investments in the future.

While it may spur big corporations into moving the economy, this would likely hurt the ordinary consumers if this continues. Aside from the 0.1% fee that they'll take, the impending inflation that they want to have is bad for stagnant money.

But the bitcoin is not accepted or known by them,and hasn't been seen as a way to store value yet. Ppl would be struggling to find alternative investment to keep their saving from being rigged.

It is bad. The rich just buy blocks of flats and leave them empty, or buy mega-expensive art treasures, or gold. The pension funds can't cover their costs, so they invest in crap derivatives, or other high risk financial implements. This hits pensioners and the lower and middle classes. It's part of government policies to transfer wealth into a very few hands.

Negative interest, never heard about like this thing before. Its better to put money in vault rather than paying banks to hold money.

This sound like paying bank to guard our money. LOL

NIRP will be coming everywhere soon, EU and Japan have it now and the ZIRP policies of the UK and the US will soon go NIRP when the economy falters.

This will also be teamed with a ban on cash so no one can escape, i.e. you have to spend your money or face it being whittled away in the bank. Stuff like Apple Pay and contactless credit cards is just the beginning.

NIRP - Negative Interest Rate Policy
ZIRP - Zero Interest Rate Policy

It doesn't count for general people. Only commercial banks will be affected by getting charged -0.1% by the central bank for some deposits, ordinary people won't be charged anything to make deposits. Its not a new thing, its already been done before by Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland and the European Central Bank.

I think this is an idea that will become more commonplace in the future. It's the reason some economists are advocating banning cash too. Sweden and Switzerland have also experimented with it.

A Swiss pension manager figured out it would be cheaper to remove his client funds in cash and pay for it to be guarded elsewhere. When the time came to remove the money from the banks he was forbidden from doing so.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-25/war-cash-migrates-switzerland

lol, bitcoin can lose 10% of its value in one day easy.

Why would you say it's smarter to have a highly speculative asset instead of a currency which is used in your country.



Sushi will cost the same in Japan today as it cost last month. As will all the other daily stay at the same price level. Devaluation a currency doesn't automatically reduce your buying power because the inflation is still very low in Japan as a fact.

Maybe it will be a bit more expensive in the future to buy a German car in Japan, but on the other hand Japanese Cars will be cheaper in other countries aka. push their export a bit more.


I know Japan is doing this for 20 years without significant success. But on the other hand it is what keeps the country running for 20 years.
But the Inflation everybody is talking about when referring to Bitcoin is really not the problem in our economy system.

because bitcoin is not based on interest, this mean that you're not actually losing anything if you don't sell with banks instead they are basically stealing your money if you leave those there in their account

with bitcoin you only lose if bitcoin go to zero, much more probable that your bank go bankrupt, if you ask me

nobody will safe bitcoin if it fails while Banks will always be safed.

Not true look at Cyprus.

Japan has gone NIRP - basically they have devalued their currency to help exports in a bid to get growth.

China is struggling at the minute, they really need to devalue their currency to compete and this news might temp them to go for it next month. The Chinese people (1bn+) are looking at having some of the value of their savings wiped out by the central banksters. If you knew your country was going to devalue the currency would you try to take steps to protect your wealth?


Can you imagine if even a small portion of Chinese people start to buy BTC?

there are plenty of example of banks and whole goverment that failed miserably, cyprus is not the only example, there is greece too, and i'm sure there are many others

they had enough time already and obviously they are not buying.



All banks got their bailout beside Banks in Iceland where even Banksters went to prison.
But Iceland is so small and insignificant compared to the rest of the world.

oh okay. There is also Lehman brothers. They are the only big bank which didn't get their bailout because they where the first Bank back then going bankrupt. The Result was the 2008 crises which forced the governments to safe all Banks in order to not ignite the crises even further.

Stock up on Romanian AKs, ammo, potable water, TP & as many copies of Atlas Shrugged as you can lay your hands on :)

Much better idea ;D

Lol really? In my country the interest is close to 0% but paying a bank money?
Banks which overcharge us on almost every service they provide?

Wow can they do that? I mean suppose you got a big savings account there, then all of a sudden you have pay big time fees?
This don't sounds fair to me?

they are most likely not going to have to pay anything on their balance.

Worst case it would be 0.1% per year which is almost nothing.

Yep Bitcoin will spike, as the flow of Chinese convert CNY into BTC, as means of converting to USD....then as the Capital Flightees notice that their aggregate interest in using BTC to get CNY into USD is pushing Bitcoin up, they may hang around BTC for a while instead of converting right away to USD, this will cause a fast n steady rise, which will encourage yet more capital into Bitcoin, for no other reason than looking to ride the bubble....

.....then some 'negative news event' will hit, and the Capital Flightees will rush to exit BTC and into USD, the momentum chasers will look to cover themselves asap....retard holders will hodl, Bitcoin will crash monstrously, but what comes down at a tremendous pace must surely bounce back up at an almost as tremendous pace, etc etc....same thing we seen time and time before.

Beware: I am 99% sure that IF neg interest rates are coming, any US institution (Coinbase, itbit, Kraken) will subtract those rates from your bitcoin held there.
We can't have any nooks or crannies...no, Siree.

i just recently heard about the negative interest rates, i dont understand how they expect people to pay to "invest" their money. why would someone pay to hold their money.

Most people are too dim to think outside the box. And to be fair the alternatives aren't that appetising for your average personage. Cash at home is going to make you sweat. Gold's too volatile and hard to buy and sell. And most people don't have any money anyway. As soon as it's in the bank it goes straight out again.

This is a 'nudge' from the central bank to take your money out and invest it in the real economy.
If you don't have the appetite, take it out and stuff it under your pillow.

well it depend on the amount, if i have 1M sitting o the bank, 0.1% is quite a big amount(1k per year)

maybe that my retirement and i need to pay to the 1k per year for nothing, why? utterly stupid, i would remove all my funds from their bank

nobody who has 1 mil is going to let it sit in the bank. there are a lot of businesses that people can start with 1 mil and earn way more than 0.1% annually.

those business are even more risky, this maybe was true in the past, not so much with the current crisis, personally i would not invest my whole retirement in anything that is risky

here i'm not talking about someone being rich that can throw at will 1m like nothing for an investment... i'm taling about a man with his retirement, that 1M is everything he have until he will die

also in other country take the money in a bank cost more than the advantage did you get ;)

Same here. I will not pay a bank to hold my money. I'd rather buy a safecase and store my money inside. To be honest, I will not look into Bitcoin unless I only have a small amount of money. Simply because Bitcoin is unstable.

ZIRP is actually NIRP, so I agree, that is not shocking. It has already happened, if we look at the effective interest rates in the US and all European countries. The question is what we are more afraid of in the long-term: a Japan-like 20 year of deflation or (hyper)-inflation?
In any case Bitcoin is a good alternative to both.

I am sure negative interest rates won't last for ever.
If the negative interest is lesser than the cost of the safe, people might still prefer the bank.  :)

A nudge to get investors to take riskier bets than they otherwise would.

Forced inflation sucks especially if your a Japanese vending machine seller, went there and I loved the price and selection of drinks for low cost at  nearly every street corner so this irritates me.
It may work though as it forces banks and investors to invest in a recession when the economy picks up those discounted assets they purchased might see a nice appreciation
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-bank-of-japan-and-negative-interest-rates-2016-01-29
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-japan-negative-interest-20160129-htmlstory.html

Man Japan's economy is in a real rut.
Default is now inevitable if you ask me.

When Japan defaults, the global economy will go into a rut.

 Atlas Shrugged? What's that for, to put you to sleep on demand or bore your enemy to death?  That book was so bad I haven't read another book since!

The entire economy is going into a rut right now, everything is losing value and there is still more and more debt being accumulated, with less money being moved around.

If any major country defaults, with the current movement of the economy, the world economy will definitely go into a rut. Its brutal for the entire world right now.

Yes looks like new fashion,rates cuted with no limits
Do not believe in USA economy growth.USA economy is slowing,will be not any rates rise

 USA economy is in danger of recession,investors may swtch to Yuan

It is not that unexpected. Japan economy is in stagnation, they have horrendous public debt - 2nd debt to GDP in the world
(it exceeded one quadrillion yen - US$10.46 trillion in 2013, and that is more than twice the annual gross domestic product of Japan.
No wonder they want to bring back their economy to life by making people to use their money.