Bitcoin Forum

:)

I don't have an answer but this is something I have been thinking about.

The real cost is in how much disk space. I can get a cheap linode for $10 a month but it won't come with the data capacity for the block chain.

I don't really understand the question... Running a full node is a personal choice. Why paying for someone to run a node?

Running a full node on a data center would allow a bitcoin shopping cart to have a close, fast trusted source that sees transactions and confirmations.

Such a node should not accept incoming connections (except from servers under your control) and should gets its transactions and blocks from well-connected full nodes, so that it is not vulnerable to the Race Attack, Finney Attack, or the Vector76 attack.

It would allow you accept transactions with 0 confirmations quickly and securely without relying upon a third party service.

I think it will cost about $10 per month taking into account the cost of electricity (for computer and air-conditioning), hardware, maintenance and network.

I selected 7,5$. That's more or less what I paid in the last few hosts I've used in the last year. No host went beyond 8/9$, I think... Had specs ranging from 2 Cores/2GB/60GB HDD/1TB to 8 Cores/4GB/100GB HDD/10TB

a datacenter with multiple nodes running... seems like a sybil attack

if your going to rely on a third party service to host a node.. you might aswell just use blockchain.info wallets as once you brush away the buzzwords and glossy concepts.. the fundementals are all the same.

infact apart from having the wallet file on (hopefully) separate hard drives.. the data is all the same so no need to have 100 copies of a blockchain in one data center. just need separate wallets

i fully agree to this

I wouldn't want the wallets anywhere near the data center. Just a node I run that my shopping carts can query confirmation status on specific addresses.

e.g. a single full-node running at data center X that does not accept accept external requests.

Any of my web servers running on that same data center can make a TLS reqest with a list of payment addresses to a small web server running on the node and get a json response with the corresponding confirmation information.

Frankly Franky1 I do not trust 3rd party processing services. And with Bitcoin, I don't have to.

I would pay $5. But I would not pay anyone else to run my node. I would need to run it my self in order to be able to trust it.

That being said, the current solution to this problem I'm solving a different way, data centers I looked at want too much for this kind of thing, I have another way to have the same effect, at least until profit justifies the expense.

I would pay more than $30 a month for a virtual server with enough bandwidth, disk and I/O to run a full node. However, I would only run and control it myself and not have anyone else manage it for me. I also won't bother if there were other nodes already running in the subnet or ASN.

I only run my own servers, I always use CentOS with some packages replaced by a custom yum repository I maintain (LibreSSL, Apache, PHP, etc.) - I don't do "managed" hosting.

I didn't get the impression the OP was asking for managed hosting, but maybe I mis-interpreted him.

Zero. If Bitcoin's survival depends on altruism then it's not doing something right.

Bitcoin shouldn't depend on anything. It should just be strong by itself.

Zero.

I think you should be rewarded for running a full node. ie. payments should be negative, but there is no option for this.

If you find someone else that is willing to pay 5$ you could share admin rights to a cheap VPS and run a full node on it.

I have a VPS that I share with another person where I pay like $8 per month for. It's mostly being used as seed box but there is enough free space and bandwidth to run a full node.

I don't understand why would you pay someone else to run a full node and don't just run it yourself for free?

$1 i think it's ok, since i can find vps for $1 dollar i don't see the reason to pay more for a full node

bandwidth is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=760094.0

this is 2 euro vps https://billing.internetovizija.com/cart?a=checkout

I'm paying 8 EUR a month to run a Classic node on a German VPS at the moment. It feels pretty reasonable to me, I get a ton of HDD and unlimited bandwidth.

Less than ten for sure.  And that VPS could run Bitcoin and several less popular coin nodes.

Well, you 'd need to keep your computer on 24/7 and have comfortable bandwidth, so there's definitely a cost to run a node. I'd probably consider it if I were a merchant, but the big problem would be to find a company whom I could trust.

I chose $7.5.

Full node doesnt need to be up 24/7, and if you set maximum 16 connections or so the bandwidth required is fine for home connection. At least this is how I run full node, only when my computer is on anyway, so it can be considered almost free. I look at full nodes like torrent, where peers just come on and off only when they are online and not running computers 24/7 as well. In future full nodes will not necessary have all historical blocks available for other peers to save storage space, making the torrent analogy obvious...

I assume running a full node isn't the sole reason why you pay €8 for your VPS, right? So it basically doesn't cost you anything. I was running several full nodes but I stopped doing so as I didn't need the several VPS's that I had anymore, so I have let them expire. They were costing me €5 per server.

Not really.

If I want to run a node to support the network, then using blockchain.info isn't going to accomplish that at all.  And if my intentions are to support rather than attack the network, whats the problem with hiring a data center to do it?  I don't really necessarily feel like complicating my home office with running a bitcoin node.

I would prefer a how should we pay people who run full nodes post although as for how much, anywhere around $10 would be okay, depends on certain needs though such as bandwidth, capacity etc.

So you think running multiple full nodes on a single computer increases the network security?

No just no.

I would allow upto 2.5 dollar per month max. Reason why is that i believe having a VPS or something where i can use the server resources also for hosting makes more sense to me.
So 2.5 dollar is a good price.

I never said that.  There's many datacenters in the world and each datacenter has many machines and IP addresses. 

You need to understand that a datacenter is nothing else then one single computer regarding decentralisation.

Tbh hosting multiple full nodes in datacenters decrease the network security.

(facepalm)

dont be a fake node.. doing the same sybil attack game as the core devs..

having 100 people run a node on the same data center is the equivalent distribution of just using 1 node..
the purpose of bitcoin is to spread the distribution. not plant it all on just 10 data centers.

for euro150 you can run a raspberry Pi with a 2tb hard drive.. if every block was full thats 20 years of full 2mb block data..(more then 20 years as not all blocks will be full)

which works out as euro0.63 a month. giving you euro7.37 spare to put towards getting a better internet package deal for our home connection

You'll have to explain that.   How is a datacenter a "single computer"?
Datacenters can host for thousands of companies.

and one or two persons have access to every single one of them - in terms of decentralisation this is not more then one single computer.

I don't think that matters much.  For one thing, the likelihood of some administrator messing with your bitcoin node is pretty small. More importantly, if they were nefarious enough to try to launch a sybil attack in that manner, wouldn't it be much easier for them to set up their own nodes?  Why would they bother with or take the risk of trying to hijack someone elses?

No need to facepalm.

Also, don't fall for the lie that NMN (non-mining-nodes) do anything for the security of the network. If they were important for the network's security, it would be a huge attack vector... it would cost a comparatively trivial amount for an attacker to spin up 50,000 malicious NMN's.

NMN's are important for the security of the user, not the network.

That said, I run them both ways. One on hardware I own and on a network I control for my own security in making transactions... and on a VPS that has 1 Gbps speeds up and down with SSD storage and 6 TB of bandwidth per month, to help other peers on the network. I have over 40 incoming connections on the VPS node currently. It costs $20 a month, which is comparable to a sandwich and a couple beers where I live.

Cconvert2G36,

interesting distinction between user security and network security.

But, so then, by your logic: really the only need for any NMN is SPV, since
if you're running your own node, you don't need any further "user security".
Would you agree?

I run the NMN at home to have "better than" SPV security and privacy, a fully validated record of all transactions and an interface to make new ones, that I control. I run the NMN on VPS to help other peers on the network, which is in my own self interest as an investor and user of the system. My home node, that doesn't accept incoming connections, is a net drain on the network's resources. This is more than compensated for by my VPS node which will happily dish out terabytes of data to whomever wants/needs it.

because they can?
im not talking about the reasons why they would do it (there could be millions) just about the ability to do so.
decentralisation prevents this.

atleast 1 company exist that is already doing something compareable to track bitcoin transactions.



https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Full_node

please explain why it does not increase network security.

For example how can i run full node and get paid for it ?
Must i have a static IP and dedicated pc ? 2mbit bandwidth?
Or i didn't understand something?

Getting paid to run a full node probably isn't going to happen. A full node that is part of a service you provide maybe but I don't see very many people paying to have access to a full node.

Is it posible to run a full node in pi? I need a external usb drive.
Computing power wise and power wise, raspberry pi is feasible.

It is for now, but its 512 RAM is very small and its CPU is very slow, so validating the blockchain alone takes several weeks.

Can you run a full node on one of the Intel Compute sticks connected to an external hard drive?

to running bitcoin full nodese in 24/7 i need unlimited bandwith, in my country i must pay $5 for each 8gb bandwith/month, now bitcoin nodes arround 45gb, i will pay $10

I think there are a couple VPS providers that offer a decent VPS for about $5-$10/month... So that would be the maximum i'd pay somebody to run a full node for me.
If i'd offer node hosting as a service, i'd ask $10-$15 (so i'd make some profit)

You cannot run a node for free. Unless you steal bandwidth and electricity which is obviously incorrect :P


What's the host?


It's feasible, and there are people running nodes this way... But obviously not on the 512MB RAM Pi B :) You've got to have a Pi B 2, which has 1GB RAM.

For now you can even run the node solely on the Pi, using a 128GB card. You can even run it portably, on an external battery, using wifi or a 4G connection (I haven't tried this, but it's not an impossibility)

Don't be so sure. What will happen in future when when further rise of hashpower become impossible?
 This can also become big business. I'm just guessing, everything related to bitcoin today is also good business.

Hence the "for now" I dont think it will be feasible in the future, but I might be wrong. 0.12 comes with a way to restrict memory usage, but I guess the CPU will be too weak once SegWit is introduced or at the very least once bigger blocks come. I also havent read anything good about using SD cards to store the blockchain, apparently they are worn out quickly.