Bitcoin Forum

many people lose money in hyip program, are you agree if sub forum investor-based game removed ?

No. Yes, people loose money. That is absolutely what you have to expect when you gamble. Free people can still choose to participate. And if someone stumbles on such a site in the wild, this bitcointalk section has proven to be a good place to look up for other peoples opinions and experiences. That way some naive people get to see the warning which otherwise would not even exist.

That won't happen cuz gambling section will be the one flooded by hyip and ponzis if ever that will happen. Admin won't let that happen again. Just get used to this section.

Your/Someone's loss is not forum's nor this section's fault, it's your/someone's stupidity's fault. ;D

It was created to differentiate them from other more legit gambling sites. People who visit this section of the forums should already be aware of the risks in this forum. Many members has been warning people not to participate in investor-based games. The choice is up to theirs. I would like this forum to remain here.

aren't you the scammer who copies other peoples sites?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=438624;sa=showPosts

Yes he is and I think he is not successful in all of his scam attempt and even lost bitcoins on some ponzi he invest with so right now he want to delete this section due to his frustrations ;D :D

this is sub forum gambling, and people will be lose or get profit, if you not want to lose your money, don't played on sub forum investor-based games, and admin already had warned to anyone!

The investor-based games was here to separate the threads of these ponzis/hyip from the actual legit gambling sites that we have here in the forum. If I remember correctly back in 2014 or early 2015, when hyip and ponzi suddenly pops up and the gambling section was flooded every seconds with their threads so theymos and staff made this sub-section to make it more cleaner. The same thing will happen again once this sub-section gets deleted.
It is in the gambling board so you guys should know that there is a risk of loosing your money. There is a warning above if you guys haven't read it or didn't even bothered to read. Also it's not the sub-section fault if you guys loose money, it was your decision to entertain such scheme so the fault was and is always in you. If you don't want to loose your money, then don't risk in these ponzis. Don't go near this sub section and you will not risk your coins.

IMO this topic is pretty useless, since it wont get removed by making a whining thread. No Offense.

wow the fucking cry baby that bitch when they lose.
you knew the risk when you sent them coins. if you did not then you should read.

as for these stupid wanna be police that think they can tag people with trust for using the site as intended then your worse then scammers blackmailing people.

so suck it up buttercup and next time read .

They lose money of their own free will. Any person with half a brain can spot something as fishy as this.

Some sites pay, some sites dont. But overall, it's best to tell newbies to be aware.

No need to remove just rename. You never invest in those sites. You can play with them but never consider that investing. "Ponzi's, Pyramids and HYIPs" would be a better name

yes and if newbs can't read that there own fault not ours.

it is in gambling and it is a risk the issue is people use hyip as a easy money but really they need to view them all as a high risk gambling game

there is no investor based games section in the past and those operator of ponzis flooded the gambling sections with their shit so the admins decided to create proper section for them, now if investor based section will be removed then we will see the gambling section flooded again

I have to be honest, I've probably had a little read of that section like once. It seems full of crap & I know that the content there isn't very well respected in other areas of this forum.

Bitcoin is about freedom and the more we attack aspects of the community the more it becomes like government. This in turn renders bitcoin useless as the nannies will enforce their aspect of laws onto the majority,either creating sheep thinking or subtracting the group till its just like minds.
The people that want to control are in it mostly for personal gain and use tactics of control to eliminate competition or agendas that do not align with their own.

As much as you want to help people,the more of a problem it will become for them. Vices are our own personal paths and leaning on some one to change only makes them that much more resistant to it. This is how I view ponzi schemes and whatever other investment risk you want to drum up.

If people can't read what's right under their nose (in red script and italics at the top of the board), then it's their fault. You're obviously butthurt because you invested in a scamzi. Learn to read.

This used to be called the Ponzi section if I'm not mistaken, and the purpose of it baffles me.  It's like gambling for the retarded, and this forum would do well to just nuke it--and I've said that in other threads.  I think this forum is probably the only one in existence that has a subsection specifically for people to willingly sign up for Ponzi schemes.

But that's bitcoin.  We have some of the smartest people here and also some of the stupidest.

No, it was originally named investor-based games. I was here in the forum way back when it's not here yet and the main reason why they put an investor-based games sub-section is to separate the ponzi to the legit gambling games that people are advertising here. Back then people kept creating new threads about these ponzis and users are complaining on how there should be a separate setion for it so that the gambling threads will not be flooded by these ponzis.
Obviously it's purpose is to keep the freedom of those ponzi enthusiast and at the same time be able to sweep their hyips scam in one part of this forum because without it we know that people will still create ponzi threads in other sections so it's bet that they have their own part. Let's admit that mos people in here invest in them. Without investors here, there will be no ponzis popping up each day.
Also don't blame it on the investor based games. You have your own mind so you are the one who are incharge of your coins. You decide what to do with it. And for petes' sake, have you guys not read those big CAVEAT EMPTOR above every single thread of the invetor-based games. If you are complaining because you lost your money then it must have you not having a common sense to understand how things works in there.

i think the warning is enough to make you understand about investor-based games sub forum.

Warning: You are in the Gambling section. You are likely to eventually lose any money that you gamble/"invest". Additionally, moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Do not gamble more than you can afford to lose.

If I want to invest in a rocketship to the center of the Earth for $9.99 I should be allowed to do this with my bitcoin.
No one should control any aspect of bitcoin,so that it strangles and conforms in a foreign nature.

The warning should suffice on opening the sub forum,after that the warnings become trolling under the guise of whats good for the community. Take a look at the language our so called forum cops use and you see it has a trollish nasty side to it. Does not seem like one is out for the better of the forum when they refer to anyone that disagrees as stupid.

Your logic is flawed. People are free to choose what they want to do with their money. At least in this specific section they KNOW what to expect.
If you are oblivious to what Ponzi, piramid scheme, HYIP and others very risky ways of earning money are maybe you are a fool who need to lose money to learn?

The only problem is when Ponzi is disguised as 'normal' investment project or company. This is not fine. But then again - you won't probably find these in Investors-based games subforum.

Definitely not. Because each everyone of us, have the right to choose whether what we want. In that case, dont blame the one who runs that ponzi or investment site nor blame the moderators of that thread nor the administrator coz he make that sub-forum. Instead blame the one who participated that thread or sub-forum or blame your self if you are one who participated and got scammed. And even the warning in that thread is just enough to reminds everybody what they will got if they choose to proceed. But because of what happened this days of that thread coz of this frustrated police? or whatsoever they called that. Dont think if they will stay in there to got red tags. LOL

In my opinion no,people needs to be informed if the site is trusted or not and how the the programs are working and one more thing they are still bitcoin related programs unless those programs do not accept bitcoin..

Then gambling and trading should be removed too.
Probably even more people lose money on those.
Bitcoin should also be illegal, just think how many people lost money when they bought at 1000$ and sold year later.

Not a good idea. These ponzis and hyips will flood other boards. In addition nobody can keep the fools and their money together by force.

absolutely not!
The only way to help new users to get scammed is a constantly monitoring of such section and leaves neg trust to every one support (post payment / bump discussion) OR post an hyip/ponzi scheme.
there are a lot of way to earn "clear" btc and this the baddest way to follow!

Its more about censorship when you break the issues under attack:

1. Spamming - This has extended to anyone with a signature being stained due to which signature they are under. Often you can be discredited based on the signature alone,if this does not work you can be written off as a troll. Its a great tactic in putting the fear of god into people that have English issues or may already be working with a learning disability. Its discrimination based on how well you can write or who you are cool with. When you look through meta look at the titles of signature threads hunting members that they deem to be spammers. It usually uses language that paints them all in the same boat. Its offensive.

2. Scammers - We started by labeling people that had scammed in the past,which is fine. Now it includes potential to scam as a reason to negatively leave a trust comment. The current attack on HYIP being discussed here shows it extends to people that leave a positive comment
because they are one of two things in the groups eyes. One they are the ponzi owner using alt accounts to spread the look of postive gains or two they are leaving a comment that supports the scam. The latter makes little sense because you are turning the victim into a target.

3. Selling of Accounts - This is where they divide off and do not attack each other over. Some think the buyer is the bad guy,well others think the seller is the true issue. Due to not defining the issue they can attack everyone involved with out any one being able to say wait a minute!

Whats next?

Seems to be a movement with a religious zeal to it,as you are trolling if you bring up issues with the plight.
So no to the Nanny state and lets get back to community building.

He posts because he wants someone else to be the victim. That *is* the point of the supporting post in a Ponzi thread.
Wait a minute, what? Is there something you think follows that statement which magically transmogrifies the dishonest practice of buying and selling forum accounts into something legit and not deceptive?

Both seller and buyer should be tagged, but in a lot of cases they use socks to conduct the transaction so we can't hit the established accounts.

We do what we can to make a functional difference to this cess-pit. You, on the other hand, keep on throwing out 'slippery-slope' fallacious argument about censorship. Even though I keep telling you this we are not stopping anybody from doing anything, we are merely introducing consequence for proven demonstrations of untrustworthiness.

That section serves not only to promote HYIP's or Ponzi site but also to warn others of existence of such site. As long as there is no referral link and post doesn't sound promoting a ponzi or HYIP I don't think nothing is wrong with that and that section.

For some one that thinks I keep stating the same thing over and over,you sure like quoting me to twist my words.
One mans cess-pit another mans treasure,maybe learn to except that instead of forcing people to your ideology.

When did talk of censorship become a slippery slope?  ;D

If you have a problem with the sale of accounts talk to the owner of the forum,forcing people to see it as a issue by negatively leaving trust comments just shows you are petty.
When you leave comments of negative reflection with out proof it is slander. Doing it just once makes what you say worthless and people will eventually just ignore the comments left. So great job in showing the trust system can be broken.

Quoting you to twist your words? I'm quoting you to show the things you have said so I can explain why it is utter bollocks.

LOL. That's just too much dumb-fuckery to comment on.

Subjective opinion.

Jesus Fucking Henry Christ will you lot please get a fucking education! The word you want is LIBEL !

Subjective opinion.

You know its funny you really do post like some one else in these threads the way you chop up things people say. Wonder if that is just wanting to be one of the boys or maybe more to it under that rough exterior you got going.
But anyways you have made a solid argument as usual and thank you for the kind words.
So much so I think I will just let it speak for its self.
**Rest of this post is in reference to discussion**

Obviously we have two ways of seeing bitcoin and off shoots of these two ideologies. One wants to clean up bitcoin forum and make it easier to go about business. The other wants to allow every aspect to breathe outside governments rules. Really do not see either side coming to a agreement that would appease all groups.
The one thing that I feel that is being over looked is this push is by a few members and not the collective. So do you allow a small segment to dictate the forum or do we open things up and discuss things till a majority can be accomplished? Arguing that its already working is narrowing the focus,but lets look down the road and see what is being gained or lost over these issues.
Allow room for discord and you will have a better forum,closed shop thinking will not solve the issues at hand.

I could swear it was but maybe I was thinking of the description or something.   Yes that caveat is nice but imo there's no reason for the ibg section to exist.

'Breathe outside government rules'='Behave like a scumbag and not be held to account'

FYI. This is is *nothing* to do with bitcoin. A forum is not bitcoin. We might as well be trading seashells, despicable dishonest behaviour is still despicable dishonest behaviour.

i think people who go that section, they already be warned by forum rules.. they already aware this ponzi sites will scam, its matter fast scam or slow scam :) but without this section, i guess its quite boring actually.. investment site are fast scam.. but sometimes investor win.

You can think that all you like, but you'll be wrong. Your subjective opinion does not equal objective fact. Data proves otherwise to your claim.

If it is a HYIP or Ponzi (usually the same thing anyway), the 'investor' only 'wins' by profiting from money stolen from other users.

Disclaimer: I do not recommend investing in ponzi site! You will lose your money if you do so!

This is just how any other gambling works too. Most of people lose and house and those who win will get their money.
I think ponzis are scam only if they lie that they invest the money to make the profits or if they say it is guaranteed or other bs like that.
But if they are very clear about how it works I don't see why it is worse than any other gambling.

I do not recommend anyone to use ponzi sites, because they are bad and people will lose money so please don't neg trust me.

Disclaimer: I do not recommend investing in ponzi site! You will lose your money if you do so!

In proper gambling, with provably fair odds, those who win do not depend on those playing after them being incited to make a deposit in order for that deposit to be taken by the 'house' and shared with the earlier 'player'.

A ponzi isn't gambling, it is a mathematically unsound pyramid structure of passing money around until it collapses.

Please click on the green text in my sig and try to understand why it is not about you or your money, it is about your lack of concern for how you profit, even if that profit is derived from money stolen from other people.

BTW, please don't try claiming that *everyone* who participates does so knowing fully what they are participating in. That is an assumption I have already disproven by way of the pm's I have received from people who genuinely didn't understand what a ponzi was after sending money to one.

There are people from all over the world using this forum. They don't always understand what they are reading, so you can't guarantee that all participants are willingly losing their money.

This goes with simple dice gambling too.
I have seen many times people in this forum thinking primedice is rigged when they get 5 lose streak with 50% win change.
But of course it isn't their fault that someone who is bad with math plays their game thinking martinagle is invincible.

Here is 93 pages of people wondering if martinagle works or not.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=610339.0

If you are stupid enough to gamble or invest in a ponzi, it is completely your fault. We aren't gonna remove investor-based games just so people stop losing their money.

Well there are still some users who love to invest in those hyip.Hyip is just like gambling so there is nothing bad in it.However there are many users who gets profit from investor-based games even if one scams out as they have some nice profits from the previous ponzis.

At the moment warning in that board is enougj to warn users.But still if users weep out after reading it and losing in hyip's , then its their fault.

The warning is enough of a deterrent the extra trust tag is uncalled for and a bully tactic.
Its ironic that it is done by people with green trust as they usually state the trust has no bearing ignoring or glossing over it does not let people do any business in any form without people being hesitant. They can not join a signature campaign and even if you are against signatures,you have to recognize people are going to be less helpful if they where gone. That would erode the environment here and leave the chosen few,maybe thats the plan.
If you spread the issue to the forum and not just this investor based sub forum it looks like a agenda to keep the shop closed and gang tactic any new face that wants to set up a new business. Its bad enough that people hijack ideas and railroad others to make a profit but thats life.
Let live..After all if this was a real issue the owner of the forum would cancel the section with little discussion needed. Its there for a reason.

Can't the investor based games be just what it is and have the FORUM say it's a ponzi that having pretentious DT members spam their negs?

Is it our pretentiousness that bothers you or the fact our action is having a strong effect on the scammers and those who wish to help them scam in return for a share in the loot?

The IBG section is what it is and will continue to be what it is, a place where ponzi scam threads live and a place where members of the forum community have decided that participation is collaboration and your intention to seek profit from theft should be communicated to other members who may encounter you.

It isn't complicated.

alot of you guys say these members such as cryptodevil take it too far but i would have to counter that you all don't take it serious enough
this is the biggest btc forum in the world, new members join everyday, im sure of it
there is no official policing, and therefore it takes the trust system and the members of DT TO BE THE POLICE HERE
they don't have to either, remember theres no financial gain for them, so it's really just out of caring for an overall healthier forum that i think they do it.
you can look at those boards and add the tens of btc lost by newbies everyday, anyone with a heart that would piss right off (me included i have no easy words for any scams of any sort)
in MY perfect forum world there would not be this board, but they also would not spam "legit" gambling boards, they would not be here at all
this would be a board of intellectual discussion, project discussion, marketplace, and such, mature shit, none of the crap there at all haha ;p
but that's my look at it so suck it up guys SOMEONE needs to police these boards
and bottom line is what has been said;
if you participate at all prepare to get tagged, as even "money you made" is STOLEN from others, making you no better
just don't go there , its not hard, look at my profile prob not ONE visit to that board haha (man i love my shitcoins tho ;p)

addition;  i think its funny so many of you think people like mexxer  cryptodevil  gleb,and suchmoon as such assholes
if they were such asses would they spend their time helping this noobie communities ass out so much?
no , they would be like veterns vegas , bobsurplus or spots, spend their time scamming you instead
grow a fricken brain
jesus, people will even cry when you help them around here....

People who are too stupid to perceive the risks shouldn't keep their money anyway. They're the ones that keep the scammers going, so we're not losing anything. They navigated from the gambling section to the investor-based games section.

Can I set up a live cam craps game in investor games or is this shady as well?

I know no one was thinking of it and I was thinking maybe I pay some people to set up webcams for this on the street.
Maybe we might catch a shooting or fight but things should work out as long the cams keep rolling. Once I establish a system I hope people will come in under my affiliate system and build a pyramid underneath me. Kind of like how I did it with herion.