remove investor-based games

[Zeke2345]

If I want to invest in a rocketship to the center of the Earth for $9.99 I should be allowed to do this with my bitcoin.
No one should control any aspect of bitcoin,so that it strangles and conforms in a foreign nature.

The warning should suffice on opening the sub forum,after that the warnings become trolling under the guise of whats good for the community. Take a look at the language our so called forum cops use and you see it has a trollish nasty side to it. Does not seem like one is out for the better of the forum when they refer to anyone that disagrees as stupid.

[Snorek]

many people lose money in hyip program, are you agree if sub forum investor-based game removed ?

Your logic is flawed. People are free to choose what they want to do with their money. At least in this specific section they KNOW what to expect.
If you are oblivious to what Ponzi, piramid scheme, HYIP and others very risky ways of earning money are maybe you are a fool who need to lose money to learn?

The only problem is when Ponzi is disguised as 'normal' investment project or company. This is not fine. But then again - you won't probably find these in Investors-based games subforum.

[bL4nkcode]

many people lose money in hyip program, are you agree if sub forum investor-based game removed ?

Definitely not. Because each everyone of us, have the right to choose whether what we want. In that case, dont blame the one who runs that ponzi or investment site nor blame the moderators of that thread nor the administrator coz he make that sub-forum. Instead blame the one who participated that thread or sub-forum or blame your self if you are one who participated and got scammed. And even the warning in that thread is just enough to reminds everybody what they will got if they choose to proceed. But because of what happened this days of that thread coz of this frustrated police? or whatsoever they called that. Dont think if they will stay in there to got red tags. LOL

[cryptodevil]

If I want to invest in a rocketship to the center of the Earth for $9.99 I should be allowed to do this with my bitcoin.
No one should control any aspect of bitcoin,so that it strangles and conforms in a foreign nature.

[robelneo]

many people lose money in hyip program, are you agree if sub forum investor-based game removed ?

In my opinion no,people needs to be informed if the site is trusted or not and how the the programs are working and one more thing they are still bitcoin related programs unless those programs do not accept bitcoin..

[Holdaaja]

Then gambling and trading should be removed too.
Probably even more people lose money on those.
Bitcoin should also be illegal, just think how many people lost money when they bought at 1000$ and sold year later.

[Snail2]

Not a good idea. These ponzis and hyips will flood other boards. In addition nobody can keep the fools and their money together by force.

[khalized]

many people lose money in hyip program, are you agree if sub forum investor-based game removed ?

absolutely not!
The only way to help new users to get scammed is a constantly monitoring of such section and leaves neg trust to every one support (post payment / bump discussion) OR post an hyip/ponzi scheme.
there are a lot of way to earn "clear" btc and this the baddest way to follow!

[Zeke2345]

Its more about censorship when you break the issues under attack:

1. Spamming - This has extended to anyone with a signature being stained due to which signature they are under. Often you can be discredited based on the signature alone,if this does not work you can be written off as a troll. Its a great tactic in putting the fear of god into people that have English issues or may already be working with a learning disability. Its discrimination based on how well you can write or who you are cool with. When you look through meta look at the titles of signature threads hunting members that they deem to be spammers. It usually uses language that paints them all in the same boat. Its offensive.

2. Scammers - We started by labeling people that had scammed in the past,which is fine. Now it includes potential to scam as a reason to negatively leave a trust comment. The current attack on HYIP being discussed here shows it extends to people that leave a positive comment
because they are one of two things in the groups eyes. One they are the ponzi owner using alt accounts to spread the look of postive gains or two they are leaving a comment that supports the scam. The latter makes little sense because you are turning the victim into a target.

3. Selling of Accounts - This is where they divide off and do not attack each other over. Some think the buyer is the bad guy,well others think the seller is the true issue. Due to not defining the issue they can attack everyone involved with out any one being able to say wait a minute!

Whats next?

Seems to be a movement with a religious zeal to it,as you are trolling if you bring up issues with the plight.
So no to the Nanny state and lets get back to community building.

[cryptodevil]

Its more about posting a fistful of Red Herrings

or two they are leaving a comment that supports the scam. The latter makes little sense because you are turning the victim into a target.

He posts because he wants someone else to be the victim. That *is* the point of the supporting post in a Ponzi thread.

Some think the buyer is the bad guy,well others think the seller is the true issue. Due to not defining the issue they can attack everyone involved with out any one being able to say wait a minute!

Wait a minute, what? Is there something you think follows that statement which magically transmogrifies the dishonest practice of buying and selling forum accounts into something legit and not deceptive?

Both seller and buyer should be tagged, but in a lot of cases they use socks to conduct the transaction so we can't hit the established accounts.

We do what we can to make a functional difference to this cess-pit. You, on the other hand, keep on throwing out 'slippery-slope' fallacious argument about censorship. Even though I keep telling you this we are not stopping anybody from doing anything, we are merely introducing consequence for proven demonstrations of untrustworthiness.

[DaddyMonsi]

That section serves not only to promote HYIP's or Ponzi site but also to warn others of existence of such site. As long as there is no referral link and post doesn't sound promoting a ponzi or HYIP I don't think nothing is wrong with that and that section.

[Zeke2345]

Its more about posting a fistful of Red Herrings

or two they are leaving a comment that supports the scam. The latter makes little sense because you are turning the victim into a target.

He posts because he wants someone else to be the victim. That *is* the point of the supporting post in a Ponzi thread.

Some think the buyer is the bad guy,well others think the seller is the true issue. Due to not defining the issue they can attack everyone involved with out any one being able to say wait a minute!

Wait a minute, what? Is there something you think follows that statement which magically transmogrifies the dishonest practice of buying and selling forum accounts into something legit and not deceptive?

Both seller and buyer should be tagged, but in a lot of cases they use socks to conduct the transaction so we can't hit the established accounts.

We do what we can to make a functional difference to this cess-pit. You, on the other hand, keep on throwing out 'slippery-slope' fallacious argument about censorship. Even though I keep telling you this we are not stopping anybody from doing anything, we are merely introducing consequence for proven demonstrations of untrustworthiness.

For some one that thinks I keep stating the same thing over and over,you sure like quoting me to twist my words.
One mans cess-pit another mans treasure,maybe learn to except that instead of forcing people to your ideology.

When did talk of censorship become a slippery slope? 

If you have a problem with the sale of accounts talk to the owner of the forum,forcing people to see it as a issue by negatively leaving trust comments just shows you are petty.
When you leave comments of negative reflection with out proof it is slander. Doing it just once makes what you say worthless and people will eventually just ignore the comments left. So great job in showing the trust system can be broken.

[cryptodevil]

For some one that thinks I keep stating the same thing over and over,you sure like quoting me to twist my words.

Quoting you to twist your words? I'm quoting you to show the things you have said so I can explain why it is utter bollocks.

One mans cess-pit another mans treasure,maybe learn to except that instead of forcing people to your ideology.

LOL. That's just too much dumb-fuckery to comment on.

If you have a problem with the sale of accounts talk to the owner of the forum,forcing people to see it as a issue by negatively leaving trust comments just shows you are petty.

Subjective opinion.

When you leave comments of negative reflection with out proof it is slander.

Jesus Fucking Henry Christ will you lot please get a fucking education! The word you want is LIBEL !

Doing it just once makes what you say worthless and people will eventually just ignore the comments left. So great job in showing the trust system can be broken.

Subjective opinion.

[Zeke2345]

For some one that thinks I keep stating the same thing over and over,you sure like quoting me to twist my words.

Quoting you to twist your words? I'm quoting you to show the things you have said so I can explain why it is utter bollocks.

One mans cess-pit another mans treasure,maybe learn to except that instead of forcing people to your ideology.

LOL. That's just too much dumb-fuckery to comment on.

If you have a problem with the sale of accounts talk to the owner of the forum,forcing people to see it as a issue by negatively leaving trust comments just shows you are petty.

Subjective opinion.

When you leave comments of negative reflection with out proof it is slander.

Jesus Fucking Henry Christ will you lot please get a fucking education! The word you want is LIBEL !

Doing it just once makes what you say worthless and people will eventually just ignore the comments left. So great job in showing the trust system can be broken.

Subjective opinion.

You know its funny you really do post like some one else in these threads the way you chop up things people say. Wonder if that is just wanting to be one of the boys or maybe more to it under that rough exterior you got going.
But anyways you have made a solid argument as usual and thank you for the kind words.
So much so I think I will just let it speak for its self.
**Rest of this post is in reference to discussion**

Obviously we have two ways of seeing bitcoin and off shoots of these two ideologies. One wants to clean up bitcoin forum and make it easier to go about business. The other wants to allow every aspect to breathe outside governments rules. Really do not see either side coming to a agreement that would appease all groups.
The one thing that I feel that is being over looked is this push is by a few members and not the collective. So do you allow a small segment to dictate the forum or do we open things up and discuss things till a majority can be accomplished? Arguing that its already working is narrowing the focus,but lets look down the road and see what is being gained or lost over these issues.
Allow room for discord and you will have a better forum,closed shop thinking will not solve the issues at hand.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

This used to be called the Ponzi section if I'm not mistaken,

No, it was originally named investor-based games. I was here in the forum way back when it's not here yet and the main reason why they put an investor-based games sub-section is to separate the ponzi to the legit gambling games that people are advertising here. Back then people kept creating new threads about these ponzis and users are complaining on how there should be a separate setion for it so that the gambling threads will not be flooded by these ponzis.
Obviously it's purpose is to keep the freedom of those ponzi enthusiast and at the same time be able to sweep their hyips scam in one part of this forum because without it we know that people will still create ponzi threads in other sections so it's bet that they have their own part. Let's admit that mos people in here invest in them. Without investors here, there will be no ponzis popping up each day.
Also don't blame it on the investor based games. You have your own mind so you are the one who are incharge of your coins. You decide what to do with it. And for petes' sake, have you guys not read those big CAVEAT EMPTOR above every single thread of the invetor-based games. If you are complaining because you lost your money then it must have you not having a common sense to understand how things works in there.

I could swear it was but maybe I was thinking of the description or something.   Yes that caveat is nice but imo there's no reason for the ibg section to exist.

[cryptodevil]

One wants to clean up bitcoin forum and make it easier to go about business. The other wants to allow every aspect to breathe outside governments rules. Really do not see either side coming to a agreement that would appease all groups.

'Breathe outside government rules'='Behave like a scumbag and not be held to account'

FYI. This is is *nothing* to do with bitcoin. A forum is not bitcoin. We might as well be trading seashells, despicable dishonest behaviour is still despicable dishonest behaviour.

[nickaizoku]

i think people who go that section, they already be warned by forum rules.. they already aware this ponzi sites will scam, its matter fast scam or slow scam but without this section, i guess its quite boring actually.. investment site are fast scam.. but sometimes investor win.

[cryptodevil]

i think people who go that section, they already be warned by forum rules.. they already aware this ponzi sites will scam

You can think that all you like, but you'll be wrong. Your subjective opinion does not equal objective fact. Data proves otherwise to your claim.

investment site are fast scam.. but sometimes investor win.

If it is a HYIP or Ponzi (usually the same thing anyway), the 'investor' only 'wins' by profiting from money stolen from other users.

[Holdaaja]

investment site are fast scam.. but sometimes investor win.

If it is a HYIP or Ponzi (usually the same thing anyway), the 'investor' only 'wins' by profiting from money stolen from other users.

Disclaimer: I do not recommend investing in ponzi site! You will lose your money if you do so!

This is just how any other gambling works too. Most of people lose and house and those who win will get their money.
I think ponzis are scam only if they lie that they invest the money to make the profits or if they say it is guaranteed or other bs like that.
But if they are very clear about how it works I don't see why it is worse than any other gambling.

I do not recommend anyone to use ponzi sites, because they are bad and people will lose money so please don't neg trust me.

Disclaimer: I do not recommend investing in ponzi site! You will lose your money if you do so!

[cryptodevil]

This is just how any other gambling works too. Most of people lose and house and those who win will get their money.

In proper gambling, with provably fair odds, those who win do not depend on those playing after them being incited to make a deposit in order for that deposit to be taken by the 'house' and shared with the earlier 'player'.

A ponzi isn't gambling, it is a mathematically unsound pyramid structure of passing money around until it collapses.

But if they are very clear about how it works I don't see why it is worse than any other gambling.

Please click on the green text in my sig and try to understand why it is not about you or your money, it is about your lack of concern for how you profit, even if that profit is derived from money stolen from other people.

BTW, please don't try claiming that *everyone* who participates does so knowing fully what they are participating in. That is an assumption I have already disproven by way of the pm's I have received from people who genuinely didn't understand what a ponzi was after sending money to one.

There are people from all over the world using this forum. They don't always understand what they are reading, so you can't guarantee that all participants are willingly losing their money.