Bitcoin Forum

Hey Admin!

Why my shop got deleted or block, I can no longer access it.

I have been selling for 4 months, I did not violate anything except for the TOS with Microsoft but that is a different story

-_-

A sad day for those who wants cheap operating system and spreading the love of it

Did you explicitly mention that they were carded or otherwise obtained via illegal means? Either that or your discounts or prices were too good to be obtained via legal means

Well there are a lot of us who sells Keys, heck there are people who sells MSDN account.

Yes its too good to be true since its not legal but it does not mean it does not work

Are the keys you are selling cracked, hacked or otherwise stolen?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3629.0

there you go. what keys were you selling, btw?

Microsoft Keys, Microsoft is very nice and kinda exploiting it. Anyways I just want some information on my shop, requesting it from admin but he is now not replying

andolini82 was reselling MSDN Keys, i really wonder why the thread was taken down as the forum doesnt enforce 3rd parties TOS.

Yes this is weird since it has been 4 months I am selling.

Admin gave me this
"I received a DCMA takedown notice for your "Microsoft Keys Shop" topic. Therefore, I removed it. Do not sell any Microsoft keys on this forum in the future."

But last time I check the Digital Goods still has a lot of sellers of MSDN Keys, eliminating the competition maybe considering I'm one of the most trusted seller

Who messaged you that? Link to their profile.

There's only two Admins. It was either Badbear or Theymos Stalin!


~BCX~

Looks like you already have the asnwer, why did you even create this thread? Do you have a reason to believe that the DMCA notice doesn't exist? You can ask the admin to send it to you.

If what he says is true then he likely received the message after he created this thread. The syntax of the message (plus the fact that theymos is the one to receive these kinds of things) makes me think that this was theymos, however I would wait for confirmation from him before believing this personally.

I have never engaged in trading of microsoft keys (or any similar trade), however I have always believed that others have the right to engage in this kind of trading if that is what they want to do.

Without looking at the OP's thread, and assuming that he was selling MSDN keys, I am not sure it would even qualify for a DCMA takedown, although I am not a DCMA expert.

There is no reason for "assuming" what he did. He sold MSDN Keys, look at his feedbacks.... wanna see the OP? Well, here we go: http://web.archive.org/web/20160214223902/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1338692.0

i am just wondering what this means for other sellers of MSDNs... :D

Payivy link is still up though.

Other sellers won't care. Thread deleted? Make a new one. Account banned? Make a new one. These must be profitable or they wouldn't be all over the place so I doubt they will be going anywhere anytime soon.

It means that if microsoft asks for those threads to be taken down too, then they will be taken down

Guys, Quickseller was right.

This thread was made not knowing what happen to my post and after a while got a reply from Theymos.

Microsoft have every right to to put down my site (for obvious reasons) I wont deny that.

I literally post that I am violating my TOS on my first post.

Yes PayIvy, still online but I might lay low for a while.

Weird enough I think I am the only got ban (Got good business I guess)

Presumably the copyright owner (Microsoft) issued the DMCA (not DCMA) notice so perhaps there is a chance that those keys were not... shall we say... entirely legit maybe? Just guessing.

I'm sure that if this is just a misunderstanding then andolini82 can appeal ;D

Can you post a screenshot of the PM you received? Just sounds a bit odd that only you were targeted.

Wonder if theymos would share the DMCA.

Were not talking about the keys being legit but if I am doing the right thing of selling unauthorized

He did not gave me the whole notice but he says I was mention so I guess that's something.

I don't plan to push my luck with this, I mean I don't want to dig my own grave.
Had a good run and that's it

Content of his first message:
I received a DCMA takedown notice for your "Microsoft Keys Shop" topic. Therefore, I removed it. Do not sell any Microsoft keys on this forum in the future.

For the second one its more of legality and I requested to get my shop description back so thats technically the content.

Sorry Theymos if this is confidential. Delete this thread if it is

Might wanna take down your payivy ad ASAP then ;)

Yea thanks for the suggestion, burn down all the evidence and trace. Unfortunately PayIvy does not have an option for that. Will email the customer support for burning the account

Well my understanding of how MSDN keys work is that the person/entity that owns the MSDN account owns the keys to the various Microsoft products, and that the MSDN account owner would have agreed to only use those keys for certain purposes (educational?), which does not include the resale of such keys. 

I also understand that the majority of Microsoft's products are available for download publicly, however the products will do (virtually) nothing without a product key to "unlock" them.

My understanding of DMCA is that this law has to do with copyright. If anyone can download any of MSFT products from MSFT's website (I don't believe the OP was actually selling copies of the various  products anyway), then I don't see this being a copyright issue. If the OP owns the keys that he is selling, then I don't see how this would be a copyright violation (although I may be incorrect on this -- if for example I own the license to download/listen to a song that is copyrighted then it would be a copyright violation if I were to sell such song).

I am not saying that the keys the OP were selling were legit, nor that the OP had the legal right to sell such keys, I am simply saying that the DMCA seems to be the incorrect law to use to have the OP's thread taken down.

I am not saying that I recommend trading in these kinds of keys, in fact it would probably not end up well legally speaking for anyone who does deal in these keys, as I believe you are opening yourself up to potential civil liabilities if you do. However I do think that people should have the right to engage in trades as they see fit provided such trades are not hurting others. 

I doubt there is much of a difference between violating the copyright by selling the full product or by selling a key that unlocks the product but as I said - if andolini82 would like to appeal then DMCA certainly has provisions for doing so (i.e. issue a counter-notice). Based on his/her posts above it does not look like it's going to happen though, so it's a moot point.

And I don't think this has anything to do with rights or hurting anyone etc. If the OP (or anyone else) want to conduct semi- or totally illegal trade of intellectual property of a major US corporation it's probably not a good idea to do that on a US-based forum, that's all. They can exercise those freedoms just about anywhere else on the friggin' intertubes and wipe their ass with the DMCA notice then. Or use Linux. Or something. Freedom is awesome.

You were most likely selling keys that we obtained illegally. There is no other reason for the admins to close your shop.

I think your late in the party, try to catch up

Yes Quickseller has a point but the point I still disobeyed there TOS means I am always at fault at that point, kinda just pissed off knowing that I'm the only who got shot down. (Hopefully this does not mean they are tracking me)

Yes Suchmoon, Freedom is great but always be responsible with your actions. Never leave a trace, burn all the evidence and as much don't get caught doing it

Let me copy my prewritten feedback for MSDN sellers:


Correct: Reselling of those keys is forbidden my Microsofts TOS.

Also OP, you can get your thread details out of the archive i posted ::)

And always, and I mean ALWAYS, make sure to discuss your criminal activity on clearnet, preferably on a forum which is monitored by LEO. So they'd have plenty of evidence when the party van comes to pick you up :)

P.S. If LEO request bitcointalk server logs/your PMs etc., etc. (Doubt they really care, can't bleed a stone), theymos will comply. Always had in the past.

A lot of people posting here not reading the thread just to get activity count :))

So..... lock the thread then? Its already been explained why your illegal activity was stopped.

I think the op may have misused the word illegal here. Illegal is usually considered synonymous with criminal activity, and criminal activity is banned on the forum. If he obtained the keys legally via Microsoft, but is distributing them in violation of the TOS, that is not a criminal act, it is a violation of their TOS contract, which is a civil issue, not a criminal issue. I think the important question is were these keys obtained criminally or were they distributed in violation of the TOS? On a side note, I believe you have a legal right to demand the DMCA notice from Theymos, as it is your right to dispute it in a court of law if you so choose. This would at least tell you who issued it (ie Microsoft or some 3rd party yahoo). Most people don't realize anyone can file a DMCA claim, not just the rights holders. Of course filing a false claim may put you in civil and criminal liability from the actual rights holders and possibly the state. Legally speaking it makes no difference to Theymos who filed it because the law says once it is filed he has to respond to it. Determining its validity is probably something he is not willing to risk taking a chance on.

Wow, that was actually very informative. Never knew that, i see so it is more of a civil issue I did not know that.

I am more shock anyone can file a DMCA Claim, will ask Theymos about that. Thanks

It is a criminal act, no less than if someone subscribed to Netflix (legitimiately), then started distributing their content. It both violates the TOS and is illegal. In some regions willfully violating the TOS and profiting from it may be considered illegal in itself, regardless of what the 'violating' concists of.


Your confusion lies in the assumption that if an incident creates civil liability then its a civil issue at the exclusion of a criminal issue - that is not in the case. In every criminal prosecution I've been involved with (mostly nailing scammers), a mirrored civil liability is also filed. Both civil and criminal for the same action. Another example - I steal your car and in doing so damage it. I am criminally liable for grand theft auto / equivalent and probably property damage. I am civilly liable to the car owner / insurance issuer to the value of damage I caused and likely more. One action, civil and criminal liability.


I'm not sure about that. Assuming there is one, Theymos would be the recipient and named party on the DMCA notice and not you. Your dispute is with Theymos / the site administration, not the DMCA issuer. Theymos has the right to do whatever he wants on here, you don't.


*sigh*