WTF why my shop got deleted

[xetsr]

I don't plan to push my luck with this, I mean I don't want to dig my own grave.

Might wanna take down your payivy ad ASAP then

[andolini82]

Yea thanks for the suggestion, burn down all the evidence and trace. Unfortunately PayIvy does not have an option for that. Will email the customer support for burning the account

[Quickseller]

Without looking at the OP's thread, and assuming that he was selling MSDN keys, I am not sure it would even qualify for a DCMA takedown, although I am not a DCMA expert.

Presumably the copyright owner (Microsoft) issued the DMCA (not DCMA) notice so perhaps there is a chance that those keys were not... shall we say... entirely legit maybe? Just guessing.

I'm sure that if this is just a misunderstanding then andolini82 can appeal

Well my understanding of how MSDN keys work is that the person/entity that owns the MSDN account owns the keys to the various Microsoft products, and that the MSDN account owner would have agreed to only use those keys for certain purposes (educational?), which does not include the resale of such keys. 

I also understand that the majority of Microsoft's products are available for download publicly, however the products will do (virtually) nothing without a product key to "unlock" them.

My understanding of DMCA is that this law has to do with copyright. If anyone can download any of MSFT products from MSFT's website (I don't believe the OP was actually selling copies of the various  products anyway), then I don't see this being a copyright issue. If the OP owns the keys that he is selling, then I don't see how this would be a copyright violation (although I may be incorrect on this -- if for example I own the license to download/listen to a song that is copyrighted then it would be a copyright violation if I were to sell such song).

I am not saying that the keys the OP were selling were legit, nor that the OP had the legal right to sell such keys, I am simply saying that the DMCA seems to be the incorrect law to use to have the OP's thread taken down.

I am not saying that I recommend trading in these kinds of keys, in fact it would probably not end up well legally speaking for anyone who does deal in these keys, as I believe you are opening yourself up to potential civil liabilities if you do. However I do think that people should have the right to engage in trades as they see fit provided such trades are not hurting others. 

[suchmoon]

Without looking at the OP's thread, and assuming that he was selling MSDN keys, I am not sure it would even qualify for a DCMA takedown, although I am not a DCMA expert.

Presumably the copyright owner (Microsoft) issued the DMCA (not DCMA) notice so perhaps there is a chance that those keys were not... shall we say... entirely legit maybe? Just guessing.

I'm sure that if this is just a misunderstanding then andolini82 can appeal

Well my understanding of how MSDN keys work is that the person/entity that owns the MSDN account owns the keys to the various Microsoft products, and that the MSDN account owner would have agreed to only use those keys for certain purposes (educational?), which does not include the resale of such keys. 

I also understand that the majority of Microsoft's products are available for download publicly, however the products will do (virtually) nothing without a product key to "unlock" them.

My understanding of DMCA is that this law has to do with copyright. If anyone can download any of MSFT products from MSFT's website (I don't believe the OP was actually selling copies of the various  products anyway), then I don't see this being a copyright issue. If the OP owns the keys that he is selling, then I don't see how this would be a copyright violation (although I may be incorrect on this -- if for example I own the license to download/listen to a song that is copyrighted then it would be a copyright violation if I were to sell such song).

I am not saying that the keys the OP were selling were legit, nor that the OP had the legal right to sell such keys, I am simply saying that the DMCA seems to be the incorrect law to use to have the OP's thread taken down.

I am not saying that I recommend trading in these kinds of keys, in fact it would probably not end up well legally speaking for anyone who does deal in these keys, as I believe you are opening yourself up to potential civil liabilities if you do. However I do think that people should have the right to engage in trades as they see fit provided such trades are not hurting others. 

I doubt there is much of a difference between violating the copyright by selling the full product or by selling a key that unlocks the product but as I said - if andolini82 would like to appeal then DMCA certainly has provisions for doing so (i.e. issue a counter-notice). Based on his/her posts above it does not look like it's going to happen though, so it's a moot point.

And I don't think this has anything to do with rights or hurting anyone etc. If the OP (or anyone else) want to conduct semi- or totally illegal trade of intellectual property of a major US corporation it's probably not a good idea to do that on a US-based forum, that's all. They can exercise those freedoms just about anywhere else on the friggin' intertubes and wipe their ass with the DMCA notice then. Or use Linux. Or something. Freedom is awesome.

[justspare]

You were most likely selling keys that we obtained illegally. There is no other reason for the admins to close your shop.

[andolini82]

You were most likely selling keys that we obtained illegally. There is no other reason for the admins to close your shop.

I think your late in the party, try to catch up

Yes Quickseller has a point but the point I still disobeyed there TOS means I am always at fault at that point, kinda just pissed off knowing that I'm the only who got shot down. (Hopefully this does not mean they are tracking me)

Yes Suchmoon, Freedom is great but always be responsible with your actions. Never leave a trace, burn all the evidence and as much don't get caught doing it

[whywefight]

Well my understanding of how MSDN keys work is that the person/entity that owns the MSDN account owns the keys to the various Microsoft products, and that the MSDN account owner would have agreed to only use those keys for certain purposes (educational?), which does not include the resale of such keys. 

Let me copy my prewritten feedback for MSDN sellers:

<...> The keys are only valid while the orginal subscription is alive. Keys are for evaluation purpose only. <...>

Correct: Reselling of those keys is forbidden my Microsofts TOS.

Also OP, you can get your thread details out of the archive i posted

[ZyclonRacerX]

You were most likely selling keys that we obtained illegally. There is no other reason for the admins to close your shop.

I think your late in the party, try to catch up

Yes Quickseller has a point but the point I still disobeyed there TOS means I am always at fault at that point, kinda just pissed off knowing that I'm the only who got shot down. (Hopefully this does not mean they are tracking me)

Yes Suchmoon, Freedom is great but always be responsible with your actions. Never leave a trace, burn all the evidence and as much don't get caught doing it

And always, and I mean ALWAYS, make sure to discuss your criminal activity on clearnet, preferably on a forum which is monitored by LEO. So they'd have plenty of evidence when the party van comes to pick you up

P.S. If LEO request bitcointalk server logs/your PMs etc., etc. (Doubt they really care, can't bleed a stone), theymos will comply. Always had in the past.

[dogie]

Why my shop got deleted

its not legal

[andolini82]

A lot of people posting here not reading the thread just to get activity count )

[dogie]

A lot of people posting here not reading the thread just to get activity count )

So..... lock the thread then? Its already been explained why your illegal activity was stopped.

[TECSHARE]

I think the op may have misused the word illegal here. Illegal is usually considered synonymous with criminal activity, and criminal activity is banned on the forum. If he obtained the keys legally via Microsoft, but is distributing them in violation of the TOS, that is not a criminal act, it is a violation of their TOS contract, which is a civil issue, not a criminal issue. I think the important question is were these keys obtained criminally or were they distributed in violation of the TOS? On a side note, I believe you have a legal right to demand the DMCA notice from Theymos, as it is your right to dispute it in a court of law if you so choose. This would at least tell you who issued it (ie Microsoft or some 3rd party yahoo). Most people don't realize anyone can file a DMCA claim, not just the rights holders. Of course filing a false claim may put you in civil and criminal liability from the actual rights holders and possibly the state. Legally speaking it makes no difference to Theymos who filed it because the law says once it is filed he has to respond to it. Determining its validity is probably something he is not willing to risk taking a chance on.

[andolini82]

I think the op may have misused the word illegal here. Illegal is usually considered synonymous with criminal activity, and criminal activity is banned on the forum. If he obtained the keys legally via Microsoft, but is distributing them in violation of the TOS, that is not a criminal act, it is a violation of their TOS contract, which is a civil issue, not a criminal issue. I think the important question is were these keys obtained criminally or were they distributed in violation of the TOS? On a side note, I believe you have a legal right to demand the DMCA notice from Theymos, as it is your right to dispute it in a court of law if you so choose. This would at least tell you who issued it (ie Microsoft or some 3rd party yahoo). Most people don't realize anyone can file a DMCA claim, not just the rights holders. Of course filing a false claim may put you in civil and criminal liability from the actual rights holders and possibly the state. Legally speaking it makes no difference to Theymos who filed it because the law says once it is filed he has to respond to it. Determining its validity is probably something he is not willing to risk taking a chance on.

Wow, that was actually very informative. Never knew that, i see so it is more of a civil issue I did not know that.

I am more shock anyone can file a DMCA Claim, will ask Theymos about that. Thanks

[dogie]

If he obtained the keys legally via Microsoft, but is distributing them in violation of the TOS, that is not a criminal act

It is a criminal act, no less than if someone subscribed to Netflix (legitimiately), then started distributing their content. It both violates the TOS and is illegal. In some regions willfully violating the TOS and profiting from it may be considered illegal in itself, regardless of what the 'violating' concists of.

it is a violation of their TOS contract, which is a civil issue, not a criminal issue.

Your confusion lies in the assumption that if an incident creates civil liability then its a civil issue at the exclusion of a criminal issue - that is not in the case. In every criminal prosecution I've been involved with (mostly nailing scammers), a mirrored civil liability is also filed. Both civil and criminal for the same action. Another example - I steal your car and in doing so damage it. I am criminally liable for grand theft auto / equivalent and probably property damage. I am civilly liable to the car owner / insurance issuer to the value of damage I caused and likely more. One action, civil and criminal liability.

I believe you have a legal right to demand the DMCA notice from Theymos, as it is your right to dispute it in a court of law if you so choose.

I'm not sure about that. Assuming there is one, Theymos would be the recipient and named party on the DMCA notice and not you. Your dispute is with Theymos / the site administration, not the DMCA issuer. Theymos has the right to do whatever he wants on here, you don't.

Of course filing a false claim may put you in civil and criminal liability

*sigh*