Bitcoin Forum

The revelation came via a source for Interfax, a non-governmental news agency in Russia.

For normal citizens and individuals:

A penalty of up to 500,000 rubles (approx. $7000 USD)

For organized groups of bitcoin enthusiasts/miners:

A penalty of 1 million rubles. (approx. $14,000 USD)

For executives or managers at financial institutions such as banks, insurance companies, pension funds, traders etc., the punishment goes up by a few notches.

A penalty between 1 million to 2.5 million rubles.

A new amendment to the Criminal Code by the Ministry of Finance in Russia sees the regulator – for the use of bitcoin – propose up to 7 years in prison for management and executives of banks and financial services firms. For the everyday citizen adopting bitcoin, the proposed term for imprisonment is 4 years.

SOURCE: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/a-7-yr-prison-term-for-bitcoin-use-says-russian-finance-ministry/

I don't think we should be trusting this news unless its coming from a legit source.The blog will make news out of any bullshit ,


If that ever happens,its time for all the Russians exchanges to shut down.

wait last time i've checked russis were heading to accept bitcoin and regulate it? so this must be only a vaporware proposal nothing to worry about

it will never be accepted

wait last time i've checked russis were heading to accept bitcoin and regulate it? so this must be only a vaporware proposal nothing to worry about

it will never be accepted

wait last time i've checked russis were heading to accept bitcoin and regulate it? so this must be only a vaporware proposal nothing to worry about

it will never be accepted

exactly this.

unless i hear from someone who lives in Russia right now and can vouch for this news, or i can read the news in Russian on a russion news website i wouldn't believe what i read. especially on cryptocoinsnews

Yeah they also have prison time for weed over there and are pretty harsh on it but people still use weed.  I think the news is bullish as it shows the reasons why we need bitcoin in the first place.  I know BTC-e has blocked russians so it must be pretty serious though.

wait last time i've checked russis were heading to accept bitcoin and regulate it? so this must be only a vaporware proposal nothing to worry about

it will never be accepted

A new amendment to the Criminal Code by the Ministry of Finance in Russia sees the regulator – for the use of bitcoin – propose up to 7 years in prison for management and executives of banks and financial services firms. For the everyday citizen adopting bitcoin, the proposed term for imprisonment is 4 years.

SOURCE: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/a-7-yr-prison-term-for-bitcoin-use-says-russian-finance-ministry/

If it is true,most russian will sell their bitcoins in coming days.this can lead to bitcoin price fall also if Russian Government succeeded in implementing this law,other governments may follow the suit

wait last time i've checked russis were heading to accept bitcoin and regulate it? so this must be only a vaporware proposal nothing to worry about

it will never be accepted

http://up.picr.de/24500862hd.jpg
...

...
so register as a money transmitter.

and relax you wont be fined just for using bitcoin to buy a coffee

^^
Source material (below) is in 100% agreement with clickbait. :)
@naidray: Ignore franky, he knows nothing, just likes to post.

>so register as a money transmitter.
You're not OK, are you?

>you wont be fined just for using bitcoin to buy a coffee
But you will for being a business accepting Bitcoin, e.g. selling coffee.
Even if you do find a coffee shop stupid enough to risk fines & jail by accepting BTC, buying coffee with Bitcoin is a thing of the past, welcome to paying tx fees.

This news item hasn't been picked up by any major news agency, and so I am inclined to agree with Franky1.
If things were indeed so drastic, I don't see any international agency passing the chance to sully the image of Russia.  :)

that's what i thought.
i have stopped believing in crap cryptocoinsnews.com spreads a long time ago.
they are just twisting every bitcoin related news and add lots of FUD and then put it up.

it is simply for more traffic to their crappy website.

Every week we have different news about bitcoin law development on Russia, some weeks says that laws will allow bitcoin, some weeks says that bitcoin users will have 4 years of prison. I think that Russian government needs to clarify witch is its position about bitcoin. And newspapers need to wait for official news, not writing about rumors.

...The one moment it is banned and the next moment they embrace the technology and want to implement it

everywhere. ...

1. The manufacture, purchase, storage, transportation for use or sale, as well as the sale of counterfeit payment cards, orders for transfer of funds, documents or means of payment (except as provided for in Article 186 of this Code), as well as electronic means, electronic media, technical devices, computer programs intended for misuse of the admission, extradition, transfer of funds -

shall be punished by hard labor for a term not exceeding five years, or imprisonment for up to six years with a fine in the amount of one hundred thousand to three hundred thousand rubles or the salary or other income for a period of one to two years.

2. The same acts, committed by an organized group, -

shall be punished by hard labor for a term not exceeding five years, or imprisonment for up to seven years with a fine of up to one million rubles or the salary or other income for a period of up to five years or without it.

ok ill use google and then translate from computer to real english
draft bill

if not registered as a money businesss, under the rules of the russian federation


you wont get a prison sentance but instead a fine of...


$250/£175 to $500/£350 if you are an individual exchanger


£450 to £630 if you are a small business exchanger

and it goes on and on but here is parts people gloss over
[/b][/size]
its worth reading the source documentation. sometimes best to read it in a quiet space where you got time to take in the information and maybe even read it a few times incase you skip critical parts

ok ill spoonfeed you,
people that are unregistered as money transmitters < snip >

Regulation
Forty-eight US states regulate money transmitters although the laws vary from one state to the other.[4] Most of the states[5] require a surety bond with widely ranging amounts from as little as $25,000 to over $1 million and maintaining a minimum capital requirement.

... now here is the draft document to the entire other aspect of bitcoin regulation
duma (http://asozd2c.duma.gov.ru/addwork/scans.nsf/ID/361FFC984B318CA543257F1F004A10C2/$FILE/957581-6_18122015_957581-6.pdf)
and here is some translations

The Russian Finance Ministry has reportedly tightened its proposed penalties for the issuance of so-called money surrogates including digital currencies.

No. That's the OLD proposed penalties, Franky. Those aren't news. The news is that

so again you avoid reading the russian stuff and quote american stuff and media again..

well atleast we know your american so it wont affect you. so now you can go back to your other world in blissful peace.

atleast i also know why you have not read the real russian stuff because it doesnt affect you. but i really do wonder why your so emotional to want to spread fud.

have a nice day

Prisons can't handles the volume of bitcoins.

Franky, not sure why you rage so much about my Russian. I was born & brought up in Russia. Most people born in Russia learn Russian, doesn't even require smarts.
When same people move to US, they learn English.
As far as being emotional? Not really. Somewhat concerned that someone might be stupid enough to take you seriously & end up getting secsed up da butt in some gulag.
I concede tho, that's pretty unlikely.
Because who takes you seriously, amirite?

P.S. Why are all the Bitcoin news outlets trolling us like that? Have they all been compromised?
They got IR lock on us, Franky! Soon there'll be no place for us Bitcoiners to hide :'(

you say you are russian but you are only quoting english wrote media.

even the video from last month you failed to transcribe. instead you conceded to blindly follow the chinese whispers(a game where one person tells another until its so mis-interpretted that everyone laughs) of non-mainstream media.. because guess what. coindesk is not mainstream they are clickbait websites. trying to find stories that are not explaining the truth
"russia wants to increase punishment for unregistered money exchangers exchanging prepaid debit, fiat and bitcoin"
but twisting it into a paraphrase of "bitcoin=russian jail"

so sorry but when you read something in the news. find the source. then go to the source. read the source. and if that source is paraphrasing another source, then go to that deeper source too.. and if the originating source is a legal document or something thats authentic, great.
but if its "someone from within".. basically no proof of who or context. then not great.

try it. you may enjoy finding out real information for once.

I offered to transcribe the entire video for you -- you refused to pay for my time.

Can we hear from someone who is operating a legal bitcoin business in Russia? Can someone who has a money transmitter license inform us. I'm confused because I have never heard of Russia having such a licenses, like in the U.S. Not that I would know.

I also see no exception in the writings of this document. It specifically says that using bitcoin is a crime. I'm also unclear as to what this document is. A proposal, an advisory note, a bill to be voted on? What is it?

i already trascribed it

but i guess you are going to keep on taking the non-mainstream media as your only source. goodluck with that

Thanks for the responses guys.
Could it be that the confusion is not only with us but also with Russia? Perhaps they are in the "WTF is this?" phase and officials are sending mixed messages as they try to figure it out.

I know early on some U.S. officials were saying bitcoin is illegal based on their poorly informed ideas about it. It would be sad if we saw actual arrests or fines for using bitcoin in a legal way.

Pretty cool country if you like alcoholism, AIDS, and no Bitcoin.

it's not even feasible, if you think about it

what if one day russia citizen begin to use bitccoin en mass, they will end up all arrested? don't make me laugh

it's like arresting everyone because he/she is using his/her computer

What if one day Russian citizens begin to shoot Drano & rape their children en masse? Don't make me laugh.

well my "if" make much more sense actually, because you know, using bitcoin require only 1 device that is connected to internet ...

I've done a lot of localbitcoins transactions, both as a buyer and as a seller, and I've never had an issue.  I take a few precautions, but so far they've never been necessary.

Typically, the localbitcoins transaction escrow is funded before we meet.

My preference is to meet in a public place (such as a fast food restaurant or coffee house).  I try to arrive earlier than the agreed time, and sit inside as far from any exit as I can, with my back to the wall so I can see who is entering, and which door they enter from. This allows me to see if the other party arrives alone or with a friend, and what direction he is likely to exit. It also means that the other party will have a distance to cover to get out which may allow me to chase, or shout, or gather information about them and their vehicle. In situations with a large amount of cash, I've had a friend come along with me and asked that friend to sit next to the most likely exit. I usually will buy a beverage from the business I am meeting in, and have it at the table with me.
[typical junkie move --ed]
It is important to remember though, that your health, and life are far more valuable than any amount of money you might lose.  If at any time before the transaction you feel concerned for your safety, you should just call it off and make other arrangements with someone else.  If, during or after the transaction, the other party becomes threatening or engages in any activity that risks your health or life (such as pulling out a knife or a gun) you and any friend you bring along should be prepared to just walk away and let the thief keep what they've taken.[/i]

Once we meet, my preference is:
The seller gets their mobile device ready to send the transaction while the buyer counts out the money for the seller to see that it's all there.  The buyer leaves the money on the table in view of the seller.  The seller then releases the escrow to the buyer and asks the buyer to confirm that they've received it.  Once the buyer confirms they've received the released escrow, the seller removes the cash from the table and re-counts it themselves in view of the buyer.  When both parties are satisfied that they've received what is due to them, they thank each other for a smooth and easy transaction and go their separate ways.  I typically remain at my seat and continue to sip at my beverage. It is obvious that I plan to finish my beverage before leaving, or if it happens to come up in conversation I mention that I'm going to finish my beverage and possibly order some food. This allows me to wait for the other party to leave and be comfortable that I'm not going to be followed when I leave.

Note that there can be variations to this scenario. There is no "standard" or "official" way of completing the transaction.  You'll need to be flexible enough to deal with any modifications.  For example, some people are uncomfortable with leaving cash sitting out on a table in public.  They may expect the cash to be exchanged discreetly.  Others might require you to complete your side of the transaction before they are willing to complete their side.  You might arrive and find that the other party is already there. Some people refuse to use the localbitcoins escrow service and will want to send or receive bitcoins directly.  You'll need to decide for yourself if someone's requirements are acceptable to you, and if not then find someone else to exchange with.

Note that, the business you are meeting at probably has more than $500 in their cash registers and office.  So, if the other party is going to use a weapon to try to get away with your cash, they can get a lot more for the exact same risk to themselves buy stealing from the business instead of you.  The other party also risks you contacting the police and being able to identify them, and they risk you leaving feedback on their localbitcoins account explaining to all future potential victims what happened.

Some risks to be aware of...

It is possible for a seller to pretend not to arrive and instead wait outside for you to leave. They now have a victim that they can wait for, knowing that you are carrying at least the specified amount of cash.  When you leave they can use a weapon to steal from you before you get to your vehicle, or they can discretely follow you and use a weapon to steal from you when you get to a less populated location (such as your house?).

If a seller sends directly to your wallet instead of using the localbitcoins escrow, it is possible for them to create a transaction that will take hours (or even days) to confirm.  They might do this on accident if they are using a poorly written wallet, or they might do it on purpose with the intention of attempting to invalidate the transaction later (before it confirms).  In either case, it can be difficult to agree on what should be done about this.  If possible, it may be a good idea to have an agreement ahead of time as to what will happen if the transaction doesn't confirm before either of you want to leave.

If a seller uses localbitcoins escrow, it is possible that they could fund the escrow but the localbitcoins service is down at the time of the transaction. It can be difficult to agree on what should be done about this.  If possible, it may be a good idea to have an agreement ahead of time as to what will happen if escrow is funded but localbitcoins is unavailable at the time of the transaction.

if there is such harsh laws against bitcoin and bitcoin usage how come there is a big Blockchain and Bitcoin Conference in Russia on April 8

if they really want to ban bitcoin, it shows how scared and weak they are and how real and strong Bitcoin is.

if they really want to ban bitcoin, it shows how scared and weak they are and how real and strong Bitcoin is.

Not just that, but this is the limit of how far they can go stopping people to use such a thing which they can't have their hands-on...
This is freaking crazy how people are stopping people to use people's money... :P

1 device connected to the internet and ...bitcoins. Which non-criminals neither have, nor have access to.
Drano and children, otoh, are within everyone's easy reach.
So if everyone in Russia suddenly decided to become a crazed criminal, the scenario I've described seems much more plausible.

---

P.S. Here, a long-time Bitcoin enthusiast describes how he buys/sells BTC in a country where Bitcoin is legal.
I'd humbly like to add that this more resembles opsec for moving serious weight,not a monetary transaction a non-criminal is likely to make:

snip

Yah, Mom, you should totally try Bitcoin. It's totally not for criminals and 100% legit, you'll be fine.

I'm curious if this is actually a surprise for you, it seems like something that would be normal in a typical society.

Russia has been dabbling with bitcoin for a while, but keep in mind this is only the finance minister, and such a comment is expected of him.

you really believe that they can not use an exchange with a simple vps/vpn or proxy or whatever and receive bitcoin on anonymous debit/credit card?

also bitcoin can be mined with gpu indirectly via altcoin(ethereum and a bunch of other are utterly profitable, 0.01 minimum per card each day), good luck to the government stopping someone from mining with a gpu, i repeat don't make me laugh

no matter how many restrictions there are, there is always a way to disrupt it

thats definitely not a good thing for bitcoin as in this way less people will use it what means there will be less adoption and the price will be lower

i hope this bitcoin ban will be removed and people will be given a chance to use bitcoins freely as any other real currency

I hate speculating on anything going on in Russia due to totally not understanding the Russian thinking. This to me looks like a attempt to control a way of moving funds in and out of Russia without being tracked.

An extremely large and unfair judgment, If it's related to doing illegal things using bitcoin then it would be like any other system but banning the coin itself is stupid, Russian government are afraid of anything that shows their currency's real price.

I also hope that the ban is removed. All those people will pretty much have their Bitcoin rendered useless. The Russians really need to do something about this.

what?!!!
how does that make their bitcoin useless?

it is bitcoin and still have value against any currency (dollar, euro,...) even if the news is not FUD, they can easily exchange bitcoin to USD for example and change USD to their fiat

This is completely stupid! How can this be possible. I don't think this will become a reality, or at least I do hope it does not.
Anyone has confirmation that this will be actually happening?

Why are people surprised at this? Just look at the way the ruble has fallen - it has sparked a capital flight as people try to get their money into something safer before the ruble falls even further. Bitcoin is one method of getting money out, so they're clamping down on it.

BTW, this is nothing compared to what China will do if the yuan goes into freefall.

Surprised because it's 7 years prison for using BTC. But on the other side, how they will find people who using btc? It's so unreal to do. haha ;D