|
Title: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: 25hashcoin on March 20, 2016, 09:14:38 AM https://twitter.com/bit_novosti/status/711404139784187904
Relevant posts: https://reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/41ge93/bitcoin_classic_is_possibly_a_takeover_attempt_by/ https://www.reddit.com/r/btc_mod_chat/comments/4awht1/allowing_alt_coin_disussion/ (altcoin discussion now being promoted in the classic sub by roger ver) https://reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4akkkw/vitalik_will_be_speaking_at_coinbase_on_march/ Is coinbase (classic pumpers) part of this? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: odolvlobo on March 20, 2016, 09:39:06 AM What if Bitcoin is a really an NSA project?
What if Gavin works for the CIA? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: 25hashcoin on March 20, 2016, 09:45:00 AM What if Bitcoin is a really an NSA project? What if Gavin works for the CIA? The much expected conspiracy mocker/downplayer shows up right on cue. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Lauda on March 20, 2016, 10:06:29 AM The much expected conspiracy mocker/downplayer shows up right on cue. It was expected. Well, I'm not really into conspiracy theories usually but if you really consider a few things it could make sense: 1) Repeated attempts to break consensus. 2) ETH bots on Reddit (before the spike) 3) The spammer in the Speculation section changed his pattern from "dump Bitcoin/dying ponzi" to promoting ETH. It can't all be a coincidence, can it (in addition to the stuff provided by OP)? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Kprawn on March 20, 2016, 10:40:17 AM Imagine Bitcoin is mum and altcoin are kids. Why would child attack it's mom? There are a lot of examples where kids killed their parents to inherit their money. People will kill their own kids to get their hands on their money. These coincidences are just to perfectly planned to not be a take over attempt. The saying, the highest tree catch the most wind, comes to mind. The pseudonymous nature of the technology and the forums, would give these people ideal hiding places to launch these attacks against Bitcoin. There is always some sort of "stress" tests prior to these announcements to make things worst, than it really is... I will not write it off, knowing what I learned from my time being here. ::) Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: European Central Bank on March 20, 2016, 11:27:24 AM Does it qualify as a coup if the majority accept it? If it does happen it'll be because enough people want it to happen.
Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Herbert2020 on March 20, 2016, 12:27:28 PM i don't think that altcoin pumpers has anything to do with all the classic drama going around specially starting it. they use it as much as they can though! it helps their FUD spreading techniques to pump up their coin like exactly what ETH did.
that's a stupid move anyways, attacking bitcoin to move their coin up. because if bitcoin goes the altcoin market dies off right after. do you really think a business that entrusted a new technology called bitcoin and adopted it with all the shit going around on the media, would look for an alternative if the first thing fails? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Lauda on March 20, 2016, 12:32:03 PM Does it qualify as a coup if the majority accept it? If it does happen it'll be because enough people want it to happen. Bitcoin is not a democracy and will never function as one. The majority as defined in the current systems does not apply here.Luckily, Bitcoin was made to be resistant to this, so in the short term I'm optimistic. After many years there could be so many Bitcoin haters that they could derail it. But not today! Today Bitcoin is still with us and operational. Exactly. Bitcoin was designed so that it would be really hard to change.What if Bitcoin is a really an NSA project? It isn't.What if Gavin works for the CIA? That possibility exists.Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: 25hashcoin on March 20, 2016, 02:05:04 PM Does it qualify as a coup if the majority accept it? If it does happen it'll be because enough people want it to happen. Cool made up story. A bunch of sock puppets =/= majority. Even if we included all the classic sockpuppets its not a majority. Even if you weren't bullshitting: https://i.imgur.com/6idPrJ4.png (https://twitter.com/adam3us/status/688432297733787648) Nice try (not really). Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 20, 2016, 03:28:49 PM lol and yet no one is unbiased about blockstream
we all know that blockstream loves altcoins and "blockchain" we all know that people such as ICEBREAKER are altcoin supporters. so the funny thing is that blockstream is just as bad, i do laugh that blockstream has ties to bankers and silicon valley too.. yet any scenario to push blockstream to the side and keep bitcoin open to everyone instead of a power grab, gets slatted as bad for bitcoin. bitcoin in short should have no power house. even suggesting that gavin, garzik hearne "resigned" suggests that its a contractual role rather than an open platform for anyone to come and go. i agree with the fundementals that classics corporate agenda is bad and sways people away from classics code.. but the same has to be said for blockstream anyone protecting blockstream might aswell be protecting gavin. its that simple. gavin and adamback are 2 cheeks of the same corporate face.. bitcoin should not take any sides, but instead be an open platform for the best code to be implemented by anyone. and for anyone(en mass) to validate that its good clean code. blockstream has more chances of controling the direction bitcoin goes and forcing people to use altcoins. so please dont make it a "choose blockstream because classic bad"debate.. instead, make it a "choose 2mb+segwit for the benefit of the community and dont blindly follow any corporation" debate Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: 25hashcoin on March 20, 2016, 05:20:19 PM lol and yet no one is unbiased about blockstream we all know that blockstream loves altcoins and "blockchain" we all know that people such as ICEBREAKER are altcoin supporters. so the funny thing is that blockstream is just as bad, i do laugh that blockstream has ties to bankers and silicon valley too.. yet any scenario to push blockstream to the side and keep bitcoin open to everyone instead of a power grab, gets slatted as bad for bitcoin. bitcoin in short should have no power house. even suggesting that gavin, garzik hearne "resigned" suggests that its a contractual role rather than an open platform for anyone to come and go. i agree with the fundementals that classics corporate agenda is bad and sways people away from classics code.. but the same has to be said for blockstream anyone protecting blockstream might aswell be protecting gavin. its that simple. gavin and adamback are 2 cheeks of the same corporate face.. bitcoin should not take any sides, but instead be an open platform for the best code to be implemented by anyone. and for anyone(en mass) to validate that its good clean code. blockstream has more chances of controling the direction bitcoin goes and forcing people to use altcoins. so please dont make it a "choose blockstream because classic bad"debate.. instead, make it a "choose 2mb+segwit for the benefit of the community and dont blindly follow any corporation" debate Biggest classic shill on this forum probably ^^ check post history for yourself. In before accused of [insert whatever shill tactic here]. You arent worth anyones time troll. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: pereira4 on March 20, 2016, 05:28:15 PM lol and yet no one is unbiased about blockstream we all know that blockstream loves altcoins and "blockchain" we all know that people such as ICEBREAKER are altcoin supporters. so the funny thing is that blockstream is just as bad, i do laugh that blockstream has ties to bankers and silicon valley too.. yet any scenario to push blockstream to the side and keep bitcoin open to everyone instead of a power grab, gets slatted as bad for bitcoin. bitcoin in short should have no power house. even suggesting that gavin, garzik hearne "resigned" suggests that its a contractual role rather than an open platform for anyone to come and go. i agree with the fundementals that classics corporate agenda is bad and sways people away from classics code.. but the same has to be said for blockstream anyone protecting blockstream might aswell be protecting gavin. its that simple. gavin and adamback are 2 cheeks of the same corporate face.. bitcoin should not take any sides, but instead be an open platform for the best code to be implemented by anyone. and for anyone(en mass) to validate that its good clean code. blockstream has more chances of controling the direction bitcoin goes and forcing people to use altcoins. so please dont make it a "choose blockstream because classic bad"debate.. instead, make it a "choose 2mb+segwit for the benefit of the community and dont blindly follow any corporation" debate How does blockstream stop bitcoin from being "to everyone"... this is getting pretty ridiculous. Those guys are just coming up with ideas to try to compete against the big giants like VISA (something we will never do on-chain). You are still free to pay for on-chain transactions, I know im not ever going to pay on-chain again as soon as LN goes in unless im extremely paranoid about a transaction because im buying something very valuable (I barely have any BTC so I don't care, it's not like im going to buy a car or a house with BTC). My transaction will reach the blockchain again with LN just like it would do on-chain. AND if blockstream ever screws up for some reason, and it goes bankrupt and LN fails, we will still have the possibility to use on-chain transactions while other layer-based solutions are developed. Now imagine that if LN breaks, and all we would have is Bitcoin with a big blocksize and really centralized nodes (and you are delusional if you think those people will stop at 2mb... soon after we have 2mb, they would want more and more, until no one but corporations can run nodes, just like mining). Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: 7788bitcoin on March 20, 2016, 05:32:35 PM There are too many "what if" in the bitcoin story. Many still think bitcoin was created by a Ponzi group or the US gov or even China to test the potential of this disruptive technology.
However, let's just play along- invest only what you can afford to loss... Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: odolvlobo on March 20, 2016, 06:13:48 PM What if Bitcoin is a really an NSA project? What if Gavin works for the CIA? The much expected conspiracy mocker/downplayer shows up right on cue. The conspiracy mocking and downplaying shows up when the conspiracy has 0 evidence. It's all conjecture. Nobody can take it seriously. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: alyssa85 on March 20, 2016, 06:30:53 PM i don't think that altcoin pumpers has anything to do with all the classic drama going around specially starting it. This. The blocksize drama actually started over a year ago and should have been resolved by now. All that is happening is that people are taking advantage of the fact that it's not resolved. You see this in business all the time. A company drops the ball and a competitor aggressively moves into the space. Expecting competitors to hold fire while this drags on and on and on is naive. Of course they're going to use the vacuum to promote their alts Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: hv_ on March 20, 2016, 06:45:40 PM i don't think that altcoin pumpers has anything to do with all the classic drama going around specially starting it. This. The blocksize drama actually started over a year ago and should have been resolved by now. All that is happening is that people are taking advantage of the fact that it's not resolved. You see this in business all the time. A company drops the ball and a competitor aggressively moves into the space. Expecting competitors to hold fire while this drags on and on and on is naive. Of course they're going to use the vacuum to promote their alts But I really wonder how the big Mio investment is paying off? Can only be by getting BTC cheap now and later get a big news like 'Scaling Solved!'.... Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 20, 2016, 08:31:23 PM seems no one is denying blockstream is a corporation.
seems no one is denying blockstreams has ties to banks seems no one denies that blockstream prefer people not to use real secure bitcoin ledger transactions and instead want people using less distributed less secure LN hubs. seems the only one that even tries to say something opposing to me is using personal attacks and insults without any statistics, logic or real data to defend blockstream it also seems obvious,the blockstream devoted people are also altcoin devoted easily spotted by either their name. their avatar or their post history. so before you take a personal attack. try to debunk the issue at hand that blockstream is as bad as classic.. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 20, 2016, 08:51:37 PM seems no one is denying blockstream is a corporation. seems no one is denying blockstreams has ties to banks seems no one denies that blockstream prefer people not to use real secure bitcoin ledger transactions and instead want people using less distributed less secure LN hubs. seems the only one that even tries to say something opposing to me is using personal attacks and insults without any using statistics, logic or real data to defend blockstream it also seems obvious,the blockstream devoted people are also altcoin devoted easily spotted by either their name. their avatar or their post history. so before you take a personal attack. try to debunk the issue at hand that blockstream is as bad as classic.. I didn't notice you using statistics, logic or real data to attack Lightning, um sorry I mean Blockstream. What was it you were saying about the problems using spurious, unqualified name-calling to dismiss ideas you dislike? Do remind us all. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Bitcoinpro on March 20, 2016, 08:58:39 PM What if Bitcoin is a really an NSA project? What if Gavin works for the CIA? What If? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Sir Lagsalot on March 20, 2016, 09:00:24 PM The evidence suggests Classic is a collaboration between scammers (Marshall), altcoin Pump & Dump teams (ETH spammers), second-rate devs (Hearn, Andresen & Garzik), aspiring politicans (Olivier) and short-sighted business interests (Brian). This inner group is supported by a veritable botnet of shills and gullible idiots.
Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Joshua kingpin on March 20, 2016, 09:06:52 PM You are in matrix, dude! ;)
Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: chopstick on March 20, 2016, 09:10:05 PM The evidence suggests Classic is a collaboration between scammers (Marshall), altcoin Pump & Dump teams (ETH spammers), second-rate devs (Hearn, Andresen & Garzik), aspiring politicans (Olivier) and short-sighted business interests (Brian). This inner group is supported by a veritable botnet of shills and gullible idiots. The evidence suggests Core is a collaboration between scammers (Austin Hill, who scammed 100k out of canadians), Central-Banker linked investors(HSBC), second-rate devs (Luke-jr, all the no-names on core), aspiring politicians (Adam Back), and short-sighted business interests (The $75-million funded VC corp blockstream who want to profit off sidechains). This inner group is supported by a network of censorship, DDoS-er botnets and veritable morons. See what I did there? Stop running around being a hypocrite, it's just bad form. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Bitcoinpro on March 20, 2016, 09:10:28 PM You are in matrix, dude! ;) the Matrix is just the name for one Cloud Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 20, 2016, 09:23:00 PM I didn't notice you using statistics, logic or real data to attack Lightning, really?? i have never used statistics using blockstreams doomsday story of comparing bitcoin to possible Visa..(dont worry i hate it too, but relax, think of it from the end-user usage not the who controls it mindset) visa averages each customer does 40 transactions a year. bitcoin currently has 2.5mill users and based on the maths of ACTUAL average transactions per block(2000tx=500byte/tx) 2000tx(block)*144(day)*365(year)=105mill .. which not surprisingly also corresponds to a 40tx/user per year.. (kinda funny that) after all not everyone will use it daily. some use it a couple times a day some use it once a month. hense the 40tx/year is a good average as proven by both bitcoin and visa so 20million people doing 40 transactions/year to compare both visa and bitcoins current usage = 8mb maxblocksize hard rule doing traditional transactions. 4.2mb maxblocksize hard rule doing Segwit transactions with a real data storage of 8mb (based on segwit and laudas assumption of 190% capacity) 4.2mb maxblocksize hard rule doing Segwit transactions and confidential payment codes with a real data storage of 12mb so we went from 1000 tx in 2013(0.5mb block due to DB bug) its going to be 2mb+segwit in 2017(hoping to be sooner personally). and based on technology growth. a 4.2mb +segwit wont be a big deal by 2020 in short by summer 2017 bitcoin can handle 10million people doing similar transactions like they would using bitcoin or visa today give it 4 years there wont be an issue with 20million. (ONLY if people dont stupidly use confidential payment codes extra feature by default) never used logic? bitcoin can work on a raspberry Pi.. meaning even a 2005 (11 year old) computer is atleast 2 times more powerful. and so a 5 year old computer or a 6 month old computer can handle alot more. how about the basic logic that blockstream want the imaginary 900million people to stay on just a dozen insecure central hubs, yet spout out how its better than just using visa or more secure then bitcoin. how about the logic that there wont be 900million users in the next few years. how about the logic that people can livestream their gaming, while also in group chat while also playing said online game. all of which is high upload bandwidth. how about the logic of a traditional bitcoin transaction vs a segwit confidential payment transaction.. real byte for byte. https://i.imgur.com/Ax54Ztv.jpg oh and by the way the math to work that out was from you blockstreamers. so it made me laugh when it actually does against everything you say. EG 2mb maxblocksize = upto 4000 transactions for 2mb data storage. 1mb maxblocksize PLUS segwit and confidential payment codes = upto 3800 transactions for 2.85mb data storage. so if segwit and confidential payment codes are not a network bandwidth or hard drive store, or node distribution problem. then 2mb maxblocksize isnt either. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 20, 2016, 10:14:51 PM I didn't notice you using statistics, logic or real data to attack Lightning, really?? i have never used statistics using blockstreams doomsday story of comparing bitcoin to possible Visa..(dont worry i hate it too, but relax, think of it from the end-user usage not the who controls it mindset) visa averages each customer does 40 transactions a year. bitcoin currently has 2.5mill users and based on the maths of ACTUAL average transactions per block(2000tx=500byte/tx) 2000tx(block)*144(day)*365(year)=105mill .. which not surprisingly also corresponds to a 40tx/user per year.. (kinda funny that) [...] Well, that just about qualifies as statistics, where are you getting these numbers from though? You expect people to actually take statements like "bitcoin currently has 2.5mill users" at your word? Remember, this is your word we're talking about here never used logic? bitcoin can work on a raspberry Pi.. meaning even a 2005 (11 year old) computer is atleast 2 times more powerful. and so a 5 year old computer or a 6 month old computer can handle alot more. how about the basic logic that blockstream want the imaginary 900million people to stay on just a dozen insecure central hubs, yet spout out how its better than just using visa or more secure then bitcoin. how about the logic that there wont be 900million users in the next few years. how about the logic that people can livestream their gaming, while also in group chat while also playing said online game. all of which is high upload bandwidth. how about the logic of a traditional bitcoin transaction vs a segwit confidential payment transaction.. real byte for byte. https://i.imgur.com/Ax54Ztv.jpg oh and by the way the math to work that out was from you blockstreamers. so it made me laugh when it actually does against everything you say. EG 2mb maxblocksize = upto 4000 transactions for 2mb data storage. 1mb maxblocksize PLUS segwit and confidential payment codes = upto 3800 transactions for 2.85mb data storage. so if segwit and confidential payment codes are not a network bandwidth or hard drive store, or node distribution problem. then 2mb maxblocksize isnt either. Right, so as usual, all the developers are wrong and your working is correct (let's be honest, why would anyone bother to check your working?). Why aren't you and your ideas about Bitcoin being taken seriously, Franky? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: rizzlarolla on March 20, 2016, 10:29:44 PM Classic probably is a coup and a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang.
Just like Core. Now anyone asking for a small blocksize increase (up to 2mb?) is "labelled" a Classic supporter. (Even though core also plan to increase the blocksize) I want 2mb, Classic want 2mb. (then loads more mb) I don't want Classic's roadmap I want 2mb, Core want 2mb. (after segwit) I don't want Core's roadmap. I don't want Core roadmap or Classic roadmap. I just want 2mb, nothing else. To ease the pressure. Not all the extra crap that comes with that from either side. See how that goes. All parties plan 2mb. (Look at VeritasSapere arguement on Icebreakers thread. Poor sod. I support most of his thinking, i think) I don't trust Core. I don't trust Classic. At least franky told me not to trust him blindly, Good luck Franky. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 20, 2016, 10:41:40 PM Lol, you people actually believe that if you type "2MB" enough times, everyone will be somehow hypnotised by the repetition.
1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB v 1MB1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB 1MB1MB 1MB Hey! It works guys, Franky and all the 2MB repeaters are unrecognised geniuses! Just don't anyone else undo what I just did, if everyone could choose how Bitcoin gets developed, it might get a bit messy..... Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: QuestionAuthority on March 20, 2016, 10:53:35 PM What if Bitcoin isn't real? What if bitcoin is just a random collection of characters and symbols that people send around to each other with no intrinsic value whatsoever? What if bitcoin is an invention of scammers that use it to get people to give up their financial information to on-line businesses on the other side of the world that are really just script kiddies or Texas rednecks hiding in their parents basement? What if........
http://wandel.ca/homepage/basement.jpg https://www.justmugshots.com/img/18816833/lg/trendon-t-shavers.jpg Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Yakamoto on March 20, 2016, 10:59:06 PM I don't personally have any strong opinions on whether Bitcoin should move to 2MB blocks or stay with 1MB blocks, but I have to say it is absolutely hilarious watching the arguments on this forum.
Classic could potentially be a coup, but considering the arguments between people on this forum, I would doubt it is just merely a coup. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: rizzlarolla on March 20, 2016, 11:04:35 PM Oh "if everyone could choose how Bitcoin gets developed, it might get a bit messy....."
Can only you choose? (and you chose core, supporting everything they want to do, while hating everything anyone else might want to do, even though some things are the same) I forgot to say here, I only want to see 2mb "when" segwit is abandoned/delayed. (as core have built up an expectation of an effective increase through segwit to deal with the increasing fullness of blocks) Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 20, 2016, 11:05:09 PM Right, so as usual, all the developers are wrong and your working is correct (let's be honest, why would anyone bother to check your working?). Why aren't you and your ideas about Bitcoin being taken seriously, Franky? and ur lack of stats, logic and unbiased thought process doesnt surprise me again. maybe when you get out of your snake pit and actually explore, you will see the numbers are not mine.. so its never been about me being taken seriously. its just me being frank about the real situation and not glossing it over just to stay happy with your friends. the real funny thing is i grabbed the numbers from posts your best friend lauda mentioned or linked. so if you want to debunk the number you better talk to ur friend first maybe its time you stop insulting everyone thats not a blockstreamer and started researching. because blindly following lauda wont help you.. by the way only a month ago lauda thought bitcoin was wrote in java... good luck following him. so please show some maturity. have a cup of coffee spend some time to think before you speak and try to make a valid rebuttle using logic data and stats for why blockstream should be a supreme ruler. if i see one insult or just a meandering post where you try to avoid showing valid real data that doesnt sound like a script out of the lauda salespitch manual. then you have failed. so please use proper reasoning why blockstream should be the supreme ruler. and centralize the control of the bitcoin code. or you can happily go back to the 52page toomin topic and entertain yourselves with ur friends oblivious to the world Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 20, 2016, 11:19:36 PM Right, so as usual, all the developers are wrong and your working is correct (let's be honest, why would anyone bother to check your working?). Why aren't you and your ideas about Bitcoin being taken seriously, Franky? and ur lack of stats, logic and unbiased thought process doesnt surprise me again. Franky, you barely satisfy your own criteria there: what logic? You've clearly never attempted your so-called logical deposition that the Bitcoin software runs on a 2005 Raspberry Pi (I have, it works. Nearly.) So, again, why would I bother to waste my time checking your sources and figures? Please. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: thejaytiesto on March 20, 2016, 11:25:27 PM Anything is possible at this point, I have seen so much bullshit that this sounds like a decent theory. I can't believe in /r/btc they are encouraging each other to run fake nodes under cloud services and whatnot.. this is definitely getting out of hand for the Gavinistas.
Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: gmaxwell on March 20, 2016, 11:26:46 PM seems no one is denying blockstreams has ties to banks Huh? I do. What ties to what banks are you talking about?Quote seems no one denies that blockstream prefer people not to use real secure bitcoin ledger transactions and instead want people using less distributed less secure LN hubs. I do. What is a "LN hub"? If you're talking about lightning, every lightning transaction is a "real bitcoin ledger transaction" just most are hopefully superseded before they hit the blockchain, without degrading their security. If this seems impossible to you should checkout cut-through transactions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281848.0) as a parallel technology that might open your eyes.In my vision of lightning there isn't much in the way of hubs, but a mesh of users. If I wanted to build a hub I'd build a chaumanian cash bank. Payment channels were originally proposed by Bitcoin's creator, and the Bitcoin transaction format has specific affordances to support them (e.g. sequence numbers). Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 20, 2016, 11:40:17 PM Franky, you barely satisfy your own criteria there: what logic? You've clearly never attempted your so-called logical deposition that the Bitcoin software runs on a 2005 Raspberry Pi (I have, it works. Nearly.) So, again, why would I bother to waste my time checking your sources and figures? Please. logic! Raspberry pi's were not even around in 2005. i said a rapberry Pi is half the speed of a regular computer of 2005.. (regular computer being twice the power of a raspberry pi) thus a 2016 computer is even more powerful again. but hey if you have a 2005 raspberry Pi. then you must break the laws of physics which obviously proves you dont follow the rules of logic you talk alot to your best friend lauda. so go ask him about the % capacity segwit offers and the extra bytes confidential payment codes adds to a transaction. because i used his mythical numbers for the procise point that you blindly would ridicule the numbers.. meaning your ridiculing your own pal. but no, you wont talk about stats or real data.. all you wanna do is insult people without bothering to check facts. as proven by your own words Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: johnyj on March 20, 2016, 11:41:09 PM Lightning Network is the old idea of per-paid card/payment channel, giving it a new name does not give it new life
Micro transaction model (charge by minute/byte) has mostly been abandoned by large telecom operators world wide due to the R&D resource spent on those tiny transactions does not worth the effort, they fired engineers doing micro transaction models and use fixed charge regardless usage model in the end. By doing this they dramatically reduced the amount of accounting on their network and saved lots of money The only one benefiting from payment channel are large institutions, but since those institutions are very large and have enough resource, they would rather setup their own clearing channel instead of relying on a third party solution Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: gmaxwell on March 20, 2016, 11:58:37 PM giving it a new name does not give it new life It isn't just a new name, the channels are bidirectional; which radically improves their utility. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 21, 2016, 12:09:27 AM Franky, you barely satisfy your own criteria there: what logic? You've clearly never attempted your so-called logical deposition that the Bitcoin software runs on a 2005 Raspberry Pi (I have, it works. Nearly.) So, again, why would I bother to waste my time checking your sources and figures? Please. logic! Raspberry pi's were not even around in 2005. i said a rapberry Pi is half the speed of a regular computer of 2005.. (regular computer being twice the power of a raspberry pi) thus a 2016 computer is even more powerful again. but hey if you have a 2005 raspberry Pi. then you must break the laws of physics which obviously proves you dont follow the rules of logic you talk alot to your best friend lauda. so go ask him about the % capacity segwit offers and the extra bytes confidential payment codes adds to a transaction. because i used his mythical numbers for the procise point that you blindly would ridicule the numbers.. meaning your ridiculing your own pal. but no, you wont talk about stats or real data.. all you wanna do is insult people without bothering to check facts. as proven by your own words Ok. Are you making a point? What is it? Does anyone care? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 21, 2016, 12:14:59 AM giving it a new name does not give it new life It isn't just a new name, the channels are bidirectional; which radically improves their utility. bi-directional.. within?? a small group.. AKA a hub(u call it channel) the blockchain ledger transactions are not bi-directional. only the transactions WITHIN the HUB (channel) if you were in the fashion industry you would flatly refuse that BellBottom jeans are anything like the 1970's Flares. yet people who use them will see that the jeans are loose and shimmy at the bottom the same way different names does not mean you can pretend its not a smaller less secure network. EG. if closing the channel to combine and sort out the micro transactions is as risk free as a real bitcoin ONCHAIN transaction.. then there would be no need for peta hashes of miners because hubs(channels) are just as good at collating and administering peoples transactions. atleast admit that LN is less secure and people should make an informed CHOICE to do real bitcoin transactions for security or LN for utility/speed. and dont blindly tell people to trust LN for every transaction Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 21, 2016, 12:20:41 AM Franky1: the only supposedly adult human that believes he can make a false statement increasingly truer by dint of simply repeating it again and again and again. The liar's classic.
Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 21, 2016, 12:21:41 AM Franky1: the only supposedly adult human that believes he can make a false statement increasingly truer by dint of simply repeating it again and again and again. The liar's classic. waiting for logical, rational attempt by you to correct me.... ..waiting ..waiting ok you cant. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 21, 2016, 12:28:46 AM I can, but it's a waste of everyone's time, mine in particular. Let's take a simple example:
EG. if closing the channel to combine and sort out the micro transactions is as risk free as a real bitcoin ONCHAIN transaction.. then there would be no need for peta hashes of miners because hubs(channels) are just as good at collating and administering peoples transactions. If you can't understand the difference in the roles that mining plays in comparison to payment channel nodes, then why are we talking? Why are you talking? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 21, 2016, 01:02:49 AM I can, but it's a waste of everyone's time, mine in particular. Let's take a simple example: EG. if closing the channel to combine and sort out the micro transactions is as risk free as a real bitcoin ONCHAIN transaction.. then there would be no need for peta hashes of miners because hubs(channels) are just as good at collating and administering peoples transactions. If you can't understand the difference in the roles that mining plays in comparison to payment channel nodes, then why are we talking? Why are you talking? i do know the difference. im just wording it to get you blockstreamers to admit that lightning is not the same as bitcoin. not as secure as bitcoin and the mechanism that collates the many microtransactions into a leaner transaction (within the hub!) ready to broadcast to the main bitcoin network, is less secure. and more possibilities that those within the hub can abuse transactions due to it not being as protected (while in the hub!) as real bitcoin onchain transactions are. to use your blockstreams favourite scenario.. the authorization part of visa is LESS secure then the settlement part. because if authorizing a payment was more secure.. there would not need to be a settlement layer because people will just use and trust the authorisation database. which blockstreamers blindly want people to think that LN offchain is just as secure and no one can manipulate transactions while offchain. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 21, 2016, 01:13:53 AM i do know the difference. im just wording it to get you blockstreamers to admit that lightning is not the same as bitcoin. not as secure as bitcoin and the mechanism that collates the many microtransactions into a leaner within the hub ready to broadcast to the main bitcoin network, is less secure. and more possibilities that those within the hub can abuse transactions due to it not being as protected (while in the hub!) as real bitcoin onchain transactions are. So where's all this famous logic and qualifying statements that actually prove what you are asserting? Every sentence of the above paragraph is littered with unbacked assertions, ironic how much this resembles your now famous complaints of ad hominem attacks against your ideas (.........duh). Franky: the man who insults inanimate concepts ;) to use your blockstreams favourite scenario.. the authorization part of visa is LESS secure then the settlement part. I rarely talk about Blockstream. You talk about it non-stop, all day. Remind us again, Franky, where do you get all this free time from, that allows you to post on this forum all day long, 365 days a year? (oh yeah, I've asked that question probably 3 times now and you've never replied). Aren't you supposed to be playing the role of the ordinary, working man? If so, where's your job? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 21, 2016, 01:37:33 AM all this free time from, that allows you to post on this forum all day long, 365 days a year? though u cannot prove the statement because infact i am not on all day 365... but i could ask you that same question i do love how you meander into a different topic to avoid providing details to disprove what i say. so lets reign the subject back on course.. show us that blockstream is not a corporation and that you shills who love your altcoins and offchain, less secure payment methods, are the opposite of what the OP is accusing classic of. blockstream and classic are both as bad as each other when it comes to the corporate agenda. bitcoin should not be controlled by any corporation. either obviously or subtly in any way. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 21, 2016, 01:53:36 AM all this free time from, that allows you to post on this forum all day long, 365 days a year? though u cannot prove the statement because infact i am not on all day 365... but i could ask you that same question It is difficult, because I don't actually spend much time here. But there has never, ever been one single day that I've been here when you've not been here too. At all times of the day and night. How one man achieves this on his own, I'm not entirely sure. I do love how you resolutely avoid answering difficult questions, and dive in head first when you spot an opportunity to subtly (covertly) endorse the anti-Bitcoin agenda. When people ask you what you do for a living, do you tell them that you're a Bitcoin Troll? No, you lie to those people too, don't you? Are you proud of what you're doing? Because you should be thoroughly ashamed. That's how non-psychopathic humans react ordinarily, when they are publicly exposed as being deceptive and manipulative. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: franky1 on March 21, 2016, 02:04:21 AM I do love how you resolutely avoid answering difficult questions, and dive in head first when you spot an opportunity to subtly (covertly) endorse the anti-Bitcoin agenda. i love bitcoin.. just not blockstream or classic. if you think that blockstream is bitcoin. then you need to lay off the corporate kool-aid. but it is nice to see that you want anyone hating corporation control as being anti-bitcoin. i have seen many of your posts telling people to just give up and stop using bitcoin. which is a sure fire way to let the corporations win. sorry but if you want corporate control. which i assume you do due to your obvious ploys to deflect any bad stigma against blockstream. then please atleast admit you want a job with them, and man-up and be honest about it. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: johnyj on March 21, 2016, 04:45:29 AM With this clearing oriented development (payment channels and large discount for institution type N-N transactions), it is encouraging the centralization of transaction processing to wallet services and exchanges. And that is exactly what bitcoin do not want to do
In this ecosystem, there is no FDIC or FED to be the lender of last resort, if there are many large institutions similar to banks, and they will start to form an alliance, loan to each other to deal with the short term liquidity problem and doing FRB to gamble with customer money. And when they blow up, the whole system will just collapse, millions of users will lose their money and no one is responsible for that, like MTGOX Payment channel itself is coming from traditional finance practice, so it will also make bitcoin works more like a traditional financial system. I don't think this is what bitcoin should become. It is a challenge to scale bitcoin on-chain, but that technical difficulty should not change your course to transform bitcoin into something else Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: BlindMayorBitcorn on March 21, 2016, 08:18:45 AM What if Gavin works for the CIA? That possibility exists.You mean multiverse theoretcally possible? Don't be retarded, Lauda. Not even for a minute. :-X Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Carlton Banks on March 21, 2016, 09:06:18 AM I do love how you resolutely avoid answering difficult questions, and dive in head first when you spot an opportunity to subtly (covertly) endorse the anti-Bitcoin agenda. i love bitcoin.. just not blockstream or classic. sorry but if you want corporate control. which i assume you do due to your obvious ploys to deflect any bad stigma against blockstream. then please atleast admit you want a job with them, and man-up and be honest about it. Prove that a corporation is directing (i.e. not simply funded by) people like Greg Maxwell or Peter Todd. You can't, no such evidence exists. Whereas, you hanging around bitcointalk nigh 365/24/7 is a provable fact. Can you prove that you have a job? Is this it? Are you proud of your job, Franky? Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Lauda on March 21, 2016, 09:42:00 AM You mean multiverse theoretcally possible? Don't be retarded, Lauda. Not even for a minute. :-X He had interaction with them, the possibility is present.Payment channel itself is coming from traditional finance practice, so it will also make bitcoin works more like a traditional financial system. I don't think this is what bitcoin should become. It is a challenge to scale bitcoin on-chain, but that technical difficulty should not change your course to transform bitcoin into something else No matter how many times you repeat this lie, it won't make it true.Prove that a corporation is directing (i.e. not simply funded by) people like Greg Maxwell or Peter Todd. You can't, no such evidence exists. All they have is circumstantial because e.g. Maxwell has a different view of scaling. The problem here is that people with limited or no experience in scaling systems are trying to tell people who have experience with scaling large scale systems before.Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: BlindMayorBitcorn on March 21, 2016, 12:46:30 PM You mean multiverse theoretically possible? Don't be retarded, Lauda. Not even for a minute. :-X He had interaction with them, the possibility is present.Gmax had interactions with Bilderberg banksters. You start playing conspiratard soon enough there will be nobody left. Lauda, I'm a little disappointed in you. Title: Re: What if classic coup is just a large-scale manipulation by altcoin pumper gang? Post by: Lauda on March 21, 2016, 10:52:17 PM Gmax had interactions with Bilderberg banksters. You start playing conspiratard soon enough there will be nobody left. Lauda, I'm a little disappointed in you. Just because I say that there is a possibility, that doesn't mean that I'm trying to advocate that it is necessarily true (i.e. conspiracy theorists). Doesn't seem like you had interaction with probability theory. Usually I do not care at all unless there is really strong evidence supporting such a claim (there isn't in these cases).Whether it's true or not, i don't care as long as they don't want to make bitcoin centralized or stay at 1MB block size. There's nothing wrong with staying at a 1 MB block size limit (if there weren't any available options to pick from). |
