Bitcoin Forum

*UPDATE: Current Offers I have:
None

What these are is basically you loaning me money with me paying you back the premium+interest after a certain period unless you want to negotiate a 2nd loan after, this will be by case by case basis for me to approve:

Working Rates: (Subject to case basis approval)

USD:
1 Month loan to me for 4% return, minimum $500
2 Month Loan to me for 9% return, minimum $750
4 Month Loan to me for 20% return, minimum $1,000
12 Month (year) loan to me for 50% return, minimum $1,500

For BTC Loans I'd negotiate but the interest rate would be a bit lower than the above rates for return on USD loaned to me

NOTE: Currently just testing offers; may not accept MORE loans than I'm under currently

Current LTC Option Contracts:
NONE

--------------------------

Current Loans: (Total Debt: $0)

My Debt:
None

My Credit:


All expiration dates are the final date that the contract can be exercised on according to Eastern Time USA

Pending Offers:
- LTC Option to jasinlee at $7 strike price
- Put option from Eisenhower

Completed LTC Options:

- 10,000 LTC Promise to SELL to user Smoothie in Jan or on Jan 1st 2014 (under the terms Smoothie is required to buy 10,000 LTC at $0.07 each)
FINISHED: Executed at a new deal on April 3rd or 4th for $0.14 each. smoothie very happy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1746835#msg1746835

- 5,000 LTC Option for jasinlee to buy at $0.35. Expiration June 9th 2013
Executed April 3rd 2013: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1737938#msg1737938

- 13,000 Contract with cptmooseinc @ $0.10 each starting Feb 25th 2013 which he exercised on March 11, 2013: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1613007#msg1613007

- 3,000 LTC Contract (1,500 LTC reminaing)to sell to maxcarjuzaa @ $0.12USD for 6 months; expiring September 3rd 2013
HALF EXERCISED mar 9 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1604823#msg1604823
2nd HALF EXERCISED mar 10https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1607970#msg1607970

- 2,000 LTC Contract to sell to NoobMiner LTC @ $0.10 expiring December 3rd, 2013
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1577852#msg1577852
Settled for 1,100LTC at no charge on 3-6-13: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1591855#msg1591855

- 5,000 LTC Option to SELL to user Scott J: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=138641.msg1491233#msg1491233
Completed 3-7-13: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1593594#msg1593594

Completed Loans:
* $200 from Garr255 on March 19th 2013 to be paid back on April 19th 2013 through Gox or Dwolla with 5% interest
PAID BACK apr 16 (Pacific time): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1860727#msg1860727
* 10BTC loan from BLFC Jordan for 5 months to be paid back by July 26th at 50% interest (15BTC to pay back):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139213.0
PAID BACK early April 5th 2013 for 12.5BTC: http://blockchain.info/address/1PUbyK2XNmEDdXStRxZBVogoQTmbPKqZwg
* $1,500 from cptmooseinc to be paid back in 4 months (~June 24, 2013) and instead of paying interest he bought a 2 year option to buy 13,000 LTC @ $0.10 each starting Feb 25th 2013 which he exercised on March 11, 2013: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1613007#msg1613007
PAID BACK APRIL 5th, 2013 (early): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1750660#msg1750660
* 22BTC Loan from steamboat @ 8% interest in 2 months time. 23.76BTC exactly due by May 6th 2012 EST
LINK: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1589315#msg1589315
PAID BACK early Mar 27 2013 (~$2,000): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1694688#msg1694688
* 10BTC Additional Loan from steamboat @ 9% interest in 2 months time. 10.9BTC exactly due by May 9th 2012 EST
LINK: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1604887#msg1604887
Also paid back early on April 5th 2013: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1750858#msg1750858
* In 2012, I borrowed $200 from user Garr255 and paid him back with interest: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85523.msg1284766#msg1284766
* In 2012, I borrowed $500 from user Garr255 and paid him back with interest: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85523.msg1502203#msg1502203
* $300 Loan from Blazr for one month @ 5%. Started March 7th, 2013 an amount of $315
ORIGINAL: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1593540#msg1593540
Paid back early on 3-20-13: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1650195#msg1650195
* $1,000 from Garr255 April 18 - $1,070 paid on May 18th:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1879194#msg1879194

Completed Credit to other Users:
- Loaned 2BTC to efx on April 5th 2013 due from him in 1 month at 12% interest: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1750864#msg1750864
Paid back 5-4-13: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg2023026#msg2023026
- 2.5BTC loaned to cptmoosinc on May 27th, due back June 27 2013 by 1PM pacific @ 10% interested (2.75BTC):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg2288725#msg2288725
Payment received early (June 6):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg2393562#msg2393562

Looks like it'd be more worth it for people to invest in your two month loans. If they keep reinvesting their coin in those loans, they'd get a 60% return over 12 months instead of 50%. They could do the same with the four month loans as well, but two months allows them to cut out earlier and easier if they wanted to.

Even though the title says non-ponzi, this is cleary a ponzi.  Shocking.   ::)

Unless the OP can show how he plans to make a profit at those incredible interest rates....

Seems more likely he will wait until he has the largest amount of bitcoins possible, and just disappear.

Both you guys are discounting the fact I will be doing each loan on a case by case basis.

And to top it off; my business model is sustainable in that I will be able to payback within the regular term or within a few months even if Bitcoin and Litecoin DISAPPEAR

I do day trading and options contracts besides my regular job and living frugal

The rates aren't very incredible in the bitcoin community

How do you intend to repay if I lend you bitcoin and it disappears?  Will I not be paid back in bitcoin?

well obviously that would be in the terms. proably by the value of the btc loaned or the value at disappearance or an average

but i prefer to be loaned in USD anyway

GOX USD

oh, screw that.

Here's my offer:

$1500USD to be loaned in Gox USD for a period of 4 months. At your stated interest rates, that would net me $300 of interest for that time period. Instead of being paid that interest along with my principal, I'd like to just receive my principal back at the end of the four months. In-lieu of the interest, I'd like to be granted an option contract for LTC.

According to the Black-Scholes calculator I used (http://www.mystockoptions.com/black-scholes.cfm (http://www.mystockoptions.com/black-scholes.cfm))....

I input .067 as the current price per LTC, a .10 exercise price (the minimum price LTC must be at for me to execute a purchase), 2 years for maturity, 5% interest (a value that doesn't matter due to such a low price, but must be entered to satisfy the equation), and an 80% volatility.

This gives an output of a cost-per-contract of $.023. If you divide $300 (the interest) by $.023, you get a little more than 13000LTC. So, here's the contract I'd like to receive instead of interest:

An option to buy 13,000LTC at strike price of $.10/LTC anytime between the receipt of funds from the initial loan and 2 calendar years after that date (sometime in 2015). 420 must respond to a request for exercising within 48 hours of PM/other communication. If I do exercise, delivery of LTC must be made within 24 hours of receiving payment for them. Failure to respond within 48 hours of request to exercise adds 250LTC per additional day to the balance that must be delivered.


If possible, I'd like to get johnthedong involved if he has an account at MtGox. Since funds will be transferred using Gox, here's my idea for escrow:

Load funds to Gox and create a MtGox Code, transfer that code to johnthedong, johnthedong uses the code to add $1500USD to his Gox Account, johnthedong creates a new Gox Code from those funds and sends it to 420. This way, johnthedong can confirm that I did indeed send the correct amount of funds and it cannot be disputed. If johnthedong doesn't have a MtGox account, then I'd like to try and find some other trusted escrow person or some way to verify that amount of funds has been sent (I can also send via Dwolla and you could move them to MtGox yourself quickly from there).

Let me know what you think!

Accepted

2 yr seems a long time to exercise LTC though but oh well. I plan to be here unless I die or am in jail; I'd hopefully have someone handling my estate by then

contract should start as soon as I get gox usd (4 month till payback)

Contacting Mr. dog

Great! 2yrs is quite awhile, but a 1 year contract would've probably been a much lower strike. Now you can make profit, support LTC, and accumulate as well! ^_^

Yeah, LTC option contract starts at receipt of loan and 4 months later I get my principal back. Have john get in contact with me if he would like us to GPG-sign this. Also please inquire if he has a Gox account to do the pass-through of funds.

-Moose

I have good experience with 420 he is a non-ponzi

well you're still potentially doing work for me and I haven't paid yet but will after review your work tonight

Still good experience :) Lol

Received $1,000 from cptmooseinc today in GOx; says he'll send $500 remaining tomorrow and thats when the options contract will start

Confirmed in PM too.

Why not just use your credit card and not pay ~80% APR?

If you weren't approved for one, then why should anyone give you a loan?

No one had more positive ratings than pirate when he launched his ponzi.

Anything that bears interest in bitcoin is suspicious, anything that pays these kinds of ridiculous interest rates is to be assumed a ponzi.

As tradefortress pointed out, you can get loans from banks or cc companies for only a tiny fraction of these rates.

The difference between a bank loan and this one is that he'd had to make payments back towards the principal, which would reduce the capital he had to day trade with to turn a profit. In this setup, he pays a set interest rate and returns the funds plus interest over the allotted time. In currency trading (or any other for that matter), with the right setup, you can churn out rather large gains if you stay on top of it. So, even though it looks like he's paying out a super high APR, in reality, his spread is more than able to cover it.

The money I have invested with him is part of $3000 I won for correctly investing in 5 $5 JAN14 BAC option contracts back in December 2011. I cashed those out in December 2012 for a 333% profit (initial investment of $900). I didn't do anything but buy and sit on those. I regularly trade within a small basket of stocks using covered calls or put spreads that can net me 10-15% in a month. I only took my BAC funds here to invest to let the financial markets have a pullback period and allow me to still get a decent return on my money. I do intend on reinvesting the funds (specifically BAC), but with a pullback looming in the next few months, it's just not safe to buy a large quantity of long-dated OTM options right now.

5%/month interest is not an unreasonable rate of return to pay out by any stretch of the imagination. It's rather easy to cover, honestly. I want to use the time I'm waiting for a pullback to help build some reputation for myself in the community and encourage trade in the currency. I'd mess with setting up a trading bot and all that myself, but I work too many hours in a day and too many days a week since I'm in the oilfield services industry and fabrication for the Gulf of Mexico is ratcheting up again.

Doesn't that make you a fool then?  You could invest a million dollars (get family to loan it) and pull in $50,000 a month in income without having to work.

Oh wait, that kind of return is not guaranteed.  Even with good luck, the OP will eventually be drawing on new investments to pay interest.  That is what makes a ponzi.

mlawrence,

Have you heard of mREITs and do you know how they operate?? It's more than feasible that 420 can make these sort of payouts if in to the right investments and knows how to navigate them properly. mREITs borrow money at a certain interest rate and then loan it back out at a higher one, keeping the difference (spread) as their profit. They can then add leverage as an additional layer to further increase the profits. That's why you see mREITs out there consistently paying 10%+ annual dividend yields.

Look at the personal loans that go on on the boards all the time. People pay huge interest rates for relatively short term loans. If 420 were to simply take my investment and make a bunch of short term loans at the kind of interest rates others are charging, then he'd easily be able to cover the amount of interest he's offering. Now, there's no stipulations on what 420 can and cannot invest the money into, so I don't really care what he does with it, as long as I get my $1500 + $300 (or in this case, my LTC options contract) back at the end of four months.

I don't think he'll have to rob Peter to pay Paul. And seeing as how I only like to trade in a small basket of stocks, and all of those stocks are currently overheated in my opinion, this is just an investment that can serve two purposes at once for me.

Ah there we go again. Heard it all before. Let me guess, you werent around when Pirate was, were you? Or Hashking ? Or Patrickharnett? Or Dank? Or any of the other financial masterminds that could make such enormous profits without risk.
 
Here is the thing though; anyone knowing of a bullet proof way to earn those kinds of returns (and the potential BTC gains on top of that)  would be filthy rich and not in need of any loans here. Particularly not at sharkloan interest rates.

Not that those mREITs seem all that bulletproof:
https://www.google.com/finance?cid=662081

No, I was not here for any of that, but I do understand how one can make huge gains on trades if executed correctly. 420 has never said it'd be risk free for himself. He's also not taking the money of anyone who wants to sign up. I believe the dude has at least the level of knowledge in trading that I myself do, if not a bit more. As long as you don't bite off more than you can chew (pay back), then adding to the balance sheet what you can trade still makes since. I've already pointed out why this repayment structure is better than a bank loan. I've also pointed out that I myself have had an investment return over 300% in one year.

I also have an open position in BAC that cost me $8000 for a $10/$15 JAN15 call spread. If this trade works out as expected, at expiration it will have a final value of $25000. Now, subtract out my $8000 initial investment, and that leaves you with $17000 profit in two years time. That's over 100% ROI per calendar year. And that's just trading long-dated options.

If one understands short-term options trading and is willing to take on additional risk, then even greater gains can be expected. I just had a SDRL bull put spread expire worthless (which was good for me) on 2/15 that involved very little risk (in my opinion due to my faith in SDRL), and it was a one month contract. I've done almost the exact same trade two months in a row (different strikes for the two months), and it hasn't bitten me in the ass yet. 420 could replicate these easy/low-risk trades and almost cover my interest payments just from them.

My trade was:
Buy 27 FEB13 $36 Puts for $371.71
Sell 27 FEB13 $37 Puts for $465.27
Both expired worthless, leaving me with a profit of $93.56 in 30 days. That's 3.465% interest on my $2700 investment for a low risk trade.

So scream at the walls all you guys want, in the world of options and futures, huge gains can be made if you make the right investment choices. The key is to know what you're investing in and not just blindly pick a security and trade it. I don't see or smell a scam here. It's my money on the line, so we'll end up seeing. I have $1500 split between two guys on the board right now, both which I expect will come in full plus interest.

I would agree with that. And if you hand over your coins to 420, do you have any frigging clue what you are investing in?
Nope.

That does not explain why he is offering for absurd interest rates. Because he's a nice guy and likes to spread the wealth around? No, because it's very likely to be a ponzi - intentionally or not.

The interest rates aren't exactly absurd in my book if you look at how bitcoin trades. Its price swings are ridiculous. The $31 drop down to $28 the other day presented a perfect buying opportunity. $1500 invested at a $28 level would've netted around 53BTC. MtGox is showing $30.08 as last trade right now, so if all BTC were sold right now, that $1500 would be worth $1590 in roughly 1 days time. So there's almost 1/3rd of my interest for the whole 4 month period. If he can do something like this, or even much smaller, and turn out $50/week in profits from trading of BTC or LTC, then that means in the 16 week loan period, he could make $800 off of my money. That leaves him $500 in the positive after paying me $300.

It's more than feasible, especially with BTC trying to flirt with all-time highs and the shakiness associated with the market. The violent +/- $1 swings in the value create serious opportunity for currency traders. Nothing is going to change your minds though, so I don't know why I try. The post was made to just let the transaction be made public. It's my funds at risk. If you don't want to risk yours, then you don't have to make 420 an offer.

So why didn't you invest $1500 at the $28 level?  Because you can't predict the future.  If you could sure you'd make incredible returns and could justify paying out those rates.

Everything that you said is fine and dandy, but it doesn't explain why he is paying out interest at all.  If he knows how to make good returns, why involve us at all?  If you had a chance to make $1,500 profit and could choose to finance it yourself, or borrow the money and give away $1,200 in interest, which would you choose?  You still make money either way, but if you don't borrow, you make more.  Offering interest is a scheme to get as many lenders as possible before he defaults.

Why didn't I invest? Because I don't have the time to day trade currencies. It's the same reason I don't trade "weeklys" in options trading. There's a lot of money in them, but I just don't have the time to monitor and manage the trades. I work long hours 6 and sometimes 7 days a week. Sure, no one can predict the future, but I would've been a buyer of some BTC at the $28 level after the pullback.

Other "real-world" methods of obtaining capital involve payback schedules that require much larger sums towards the principal over the life of the loan. You keep screaming it's a Ponzi, but I see loans requested and given consistently in the Loans section of the board for sums of BTC carrying 7% interest for a WEEK or TWO WEEKS and people make these loans. If 420 were to strictly make these types of loans through the life of my loan to him, he could make a killing and then some.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way with your "make $1500 yourself or give $1200 away as interest" deal. If I have $1500 to trade with and was making X amount off of that money, but that's all I had access to, then that's as much as I could make. But, if I could borrow another $1500 to trade with, this would double my funds, so I would have greater trading power to take advantage of the swings of the currency. Now, I'm making 2X (let's just say that for the sake of math) instead of just X. As long as the price of interest, Y, is less than the cost of X, I still come out making more than I would if I just had $1500 to invest with, so I can pay out Y from my 2X and keep the rest as profit. If 420 had enough leftover each month of the life of the loan, then he could theoretically build up a significant portion of his borrowed funds as excess profit and no longer accept such loans as he can trade fully independently from there on out.

To the credit card arguments: Credit is limited

and why should i support the banks rather than my fellow bitcoiners?

for mlawrence, "the OP will eventually be drawing on new investments to pay interest.  That is what makes a ponzi." that I think is just conjecture and speculation

I have more loans paid back in the past than I currently have outstanding now; in fact cptmooseinc has given my first loan technically for this program or since I've made this thread and I had already talked to him about this beforehand I just wanted to make it public and give similar offers to others.

When you think or see people jumping in in hoards to give me offers that you think I would take or see me taking then you can scream and yell ponzi or say its very risky because I could make mistakes in how I'm making my money. Right now though, there's nothing I couldn't handle or just take out a credit card to pay back creditors if for some blue moon reason all my investments went to $0.

If you want to argue someone can run a ponzi without knowing they've created a ponzi (I think as TradeFortress mentioned), go ahead, I welcome that discussion, but that would be different than what I think you were trying to say

ADDITIONALY I WAS here when pirateat40's 'ponzi' fell apart or he stopped paying back creditors and their money was lost/stolen

If I'm correct after reviewing his scheme he was giving 1% internet A DAY.
Compounded thats over 34% return a month. I'm only giving 20% over 4 months. Nowhere near his.

The kind of funds he eventually acquired after building a reputation and growing his debt could make him a market maker or manipulator for the whole Bitcoin price...

He has one quarter of my post count, though he had high ratings:
5 - Excellent    116 (24.3%)
4 - Very Good    30 (6.3%)
3 - Good    14 (2.9%)
2 - Fair    9 (1.9%)
1 - Poor    43 (9%)

So if you can't trust someone with high ratings; obviously you just need to do your own research and invest wisely

Received final $500 from cptmooseinc making the full amount received of $1,500 for our deal

You beat me to it!

Just to note, the 13,000LTC option contract starts today. Anywhere between now and February 24, 2015 I can purchase 13,000LTC at a strike of $.10/LTC.

Thanks again 420!

-Moose

Currently stating I'd be available for another LTC option contract no more than 5,000 LTC, I would prefer a 6 month term

Also looking for another small loan of $500 Gox for 4 months @ 20% interest:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148557.0

Per our discusssion via PM here's my contract offer....

You sell me an option to buy 2000 Litecoins at 10 cents U.S. per Litecoin for 9 months AND you send me 200 Litecoins (currently ~6.5c)  to my wallet now.
in return I send you 1 Bitcoin to your wallet.

Completion of the contract would need to be done either in 4 batches of 500 for bitcoin at the market value (Mt.Gox) of Bitcoins on the day/time of contract redemption request by me or Paypal  ($200 total, 2000 Litecoin x  10c) OR we would have to do the full amount via escrow with bitcoin or Paypal, escrow to be decided by us and if we can't come to agreement by a moderator/admin from Bitcointalk.  I prefer the first option using Bitcoin as we can do it relatively quickly and require little trust on either of our parts since it only amounts to either of us trusting the other for $50 per transaction until we complete the total.


If you accept we need to exchange Wallet IDs via PM (my Litecoin wallet and your Bitcoin wallet).

Accepted, under conditions:

1. Payment to be paid with btc equivalent of value (at Mt. Gox/CoinLab price) or GOX USD or CoinLab if its switched by then

2. You send 1BTC first to my wallet address: 13qvP8vSEKPxLHXNPeHtCE4TGgZFaZU6am

3. Contract begins the day BTC received and therefore ends 9 months later on the same day of the month (including final day as last day to purchase LTC at contract price) this should be in December then

4. Send in 4 parts is fine if you send first as you are the purchaser

Sounds like we have a deal... final terms...

1. Noobminer sends 1 Bitcoin to 420s address   13qvP8vSEKPxLHXNPeHtCE4TGgZFaZU6am

2. In return Noobminer gets a 9 month option contract to purchase 2000 Litecoins at 10 cents U.S. AND immediately recieve 200 Litecoins in his wallet  LdK2Zx2tGFcABc3b2GdHZKGq2vtvUTpFXu

3.  Contract begins the day BTC received and therefore ends 9 months later on the same day of the month (including final day as last day to purchase LTC at contract price) this should be in December then

4.  Payment to redeem the contract to be paid with btc equivalent of value  $200 total (200 Litecoins x 10 cents) (at Mt. Gox/CoinLab price) or GOX USD or CoinLab if its switched by then on the day/time that a redemption request is made by Noobminer in this thread (if thread is still extant or by e-mail or other means.

5.  Completion of the contract will be done in 4 transfers of Noobminer's Bitcoin (per #4) of $50 U.S. transferred to Member 420's  chosen Bitcoin address followed by 420 sending 500 Litecoins to Noobminer's chosen Litecoin address, process to repeat 4 times until contract is complete.


Agreed to by Noobminer

Agreed as well

1 Bitcoin sent to
13qvP8vSEKPxLHXNPeHtCE4TGgZFaZU6am
per the above contract agreement.

Really? All that much effort for one bitcoin?

200 Litecoins sent to:
LdK2Zx2tGFcABc3b2GdHZKGq2vtvUTpFXu


What's your point?

I actually barely made over 0.5BTC

Really... and thanks for cluttering up an ongoing trade.  Nice.

Received 200 Ltc per contract....good trade.... will post in feedback thread tomorrow.

Negotiating with maxcarjuzaa for an option for 3,000 LTC

my current offer:

3,000 LTC for 0.12USD each for 6 months

Fee $27.75 gox usd or 0.8067 BTC

I will take it, PM me with BTC address.

TY

here's fine:

13qvP8vSEKPxLHXNPeHtCE4TGgZFaZU6am

BTCs sent,

TY

Received.

Contract has started.

Will update OP when I get some time

Made a smooth trade with 420, mtgoxusd x stampusd.
Highly recommended.

I agree, very smooth and fast negotiation
+1 gusti as well

Obviously Litecoin price spiked.

I have yet to hear of anyone asking or wanting to exercise their LTC options

People who want to exercise want to sell. If they think there is a potential for a higher price, they won't exercise. ;)

Unless someone is fearful of a peak, I don't think you'll see any exercise requests. I know I've got until 2/2015, and I'd need a much higher price to consider executing early. (:

you trust me more with your LTC than yourself

I don't really want to come off $1300 right now for a $416 profit.

In negotiations with steamboat for a BTC denominated loan, $1,000 worth for 8% interest in 2 months time

He can pay me at 13qvP8vSEKPxLHXNPeHtCE4TGgZFaZU6am to start

Mt. Gox spot okay?

okay yeah well that really doesn't matter anyway since we'll just give the interest off the BTC quantity so as long as it's under $1,500 worth

Was gonna make it exact, but made it BTC 22 to make the math easy.

This message confirming payment sent, Tx ID  e233aa1b92db95998e1e7340f1e61dd71ca2f63a05127fc1aae29514ebc2632f

Received 22BTC confirmed

23.76BTC exactly due by May 6th 2013 Eastern time

Sounds good to me.

I hope you all realized that those options are only as good as the person you trade with. So you put alot of trust into 420 that he will be here in 6 months and able to fullfill his part in case that the LTC price rise by a factor of 100 or whatever it is that time...

Gee... I never thought of that.  Well let's ask him. 

Are you scamming me on the option contract we have 420?



FFS Eisenhower, trust is what contracts are based on, especially in the bitcoin community.  Some people still have their word as their bond.  Many cryptocoiners are so paranoid (I wonder why?).  At any rate, my investment is small and it's mine to risk.

Many cryptocoiners are paranoid because the bitcoin world is rife with scammers. It's disgusting, and you hardly see this anywhere else.

420 is what I'd call a "forum superstar", but just because you spent a lot of time on bitcointalk doesn't mean you're automatically trusted. You need actual reputation.

Obviously I trust 420 to keep his side of the bargain otherwise I wouldn't have entered into the contract.

Also, the way the deal was made, the worse case scenario for me was that I paid $40 for 500 LTC.

Negotiated with him on his loan thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149699.msg1591524#msg1591524

Per our PMs 420...
You send 1100 Litecoins to my wallet
LdK2Zx2tGFcABc3b2GdHZKGq2vtvUTpFXu
and our futures contract for 2000 Litecoins at 10 cents for 9 months will be held as fulfilled upon receipt.

Confirm receipt of 1100 Litecoins in fulfillment of our options contract.  Contract is now complete and void.  Very good trading with 420, he's been a man of his word and all trades have been quick and easy.

Great!

Scott J exercised his option and he delivered $400 and i delivered him a 4500 LTC BTC-E code that he will come on later to confirm this is correct

ALSO:

Added new 1 month term for 5% return
Increased 2 month rate from 10% to 11% return :)

i AGREE! SEND me the USD! :)

 :-\ :-\

Lemme know if you need any more BTC  ;D

I can confirm that.

It was a pleasure working with 420 - will look at doing so again when the markets calm down  ;D

Received funds correctly $300

yes chaos

thanks for doing business

Oh man! 420 has been wheeling and dealing tonight! I'll hold my options contract for now. (;

looks like LTC recovered from Scott selling already ;)

Hopefully you were ready on the buy side for the dip. (; More contracts! :p

Hopefully next time I won't be in such a hurry to sell  :D

I can now sell an LTC contract for 6 months for $0.30.

Who's interested?


I think I just read or realized what you said and my response is Thank you!

for some reason I like USD more...even though I know I can convert BTC to usd if i was borrowed but of course there's selling fees. So my interest rates are based on USD. Because usd is generally losing value and btc gaining value this makes more sense to be easier for me to accomplish

I want to excercise 600 options. I've sent pm with detais.

TY.

Partial exercise? That would be strange to be allowed.

420, to clarify this in the future, maybe you should do like real options and sell a contract that is equal to a certain amount of LTC in case people would like to exercise blocks of LTC like the poster above.

With the value of LTC being like it is, 100LTC to 1 contract is much too low. I would suggest selling contracts in 1,000LTC increments. That way, anyone trying to get a contract from here on out could execute part of their deal but not all of it. Then you don't have to deal with keeping track of who has what balance with which contract, you just have to track how many of their original contracts they have left. Then if they choose to exercise an option, they get 1,000LTC and their contracts outstanding reduce by 1. Much easier.

-Moose

I was thinking the same thing. Since these terms weren't discussed I'd like it to be full exercise or none; can you exercise it all?

EDIT: I'll change my mind and right now let you exercise half your contract, 1,500 LTC

Good idea Moose

I may be interested in a 1 year option contract to buy @ 0.25 for a larger amount of coins.

Thoughts?

I'd have to hold off on any contracts above 5,000 LTC and that would require a very high fee as we're already at 0.22

hey max as per PM we agreed on half, or 1,500 LTC

right now you owe 0.12x1500 = $180

The worth of LTC to be $180 after trading fee of 0.2% with current buy order ( large buy at 0.219) means a quantity of exactly: 823.56493809536881983144370933648

1,500 - 823.56493809536881983144370933648 =
676.43506190463118016855629066352 I send to you

If agree please quote this and reply

OK, Great, you can send me ltc or btc-e code is ok with me.

Just sent the code

PM'd steamboat we agreed and I want 10BTC more for a 2nd loan at 9% over 2 months
steam please send to: 1Jvv4Z4KPjZrZB8rMKpMMdWxMkRFPeymTz

Recieved, TY!

Confirmed additional 10 btc loan @ 9% interest for two months. BTC10.9 to be paid in full no later than June 9th, 2013.

Tx ID: 621086b7d31b24684e41df907681cbdbc54d01c4c5aa0d2b25872159c6021e39

I was asked to state that 420 has $1200 in his "campbx" account. He sent me a video as proof.

Edit: received another email, with another account of another exchange service with ~$1000 and 14 BTC proofed by video.

about 7btc at $45 plus my balance is about $1,486 actually

and my other account?

no need to mention what site the accounts are at

EDIT: Lowered my interest rates on loans and increased my LTC option offer strike price from 0.30 to $0.35

(I'm less apt for more contracts right now)

Ok, why does this matter?  These accounts are under his control, so you can't use them as any type of collateral or security.

Shows I didn't just go cash out and buy a car or something

mlawrence, how many loans have you taken and how many have you given?

I'm sure pirate was able to show large balances and other proof until the instant he decided to default.  If it's in your control, it can't be used as any sort of guarantee.

I'll answer those types of questions when I ask to borrow money.

well not meant to be a guarantee.

EDIT: Eisenhower confirmed another account balance to show im not broke or ran off with the money outside of bitcoin exchanges:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1605047#msg1605047

Yet.  

Not until you've gained as much trust and as many coins as you can at least.

It wouldn't make sense to start spending the money now.

I'm not saying your Ponzi will collapse in June.

If you stand to make more money in new deposits than you'll pay out, you'd be a fool not to continue the scam.

You'll default when you feel your payouts equal more than you'll receive in new deposits.

in other worlds. If you can convince more people not to loan to me then if I was a ponzi you'd cause me to crash sooner

:D

Scott J,

By my calculations, a 1 year contract @ a $.25 strike would cost $.062/LTC upfront. If you wanted to do a larger amount of coins (let's say 10,000LTC), this would mean a $620 upfront fee, as LTC is very near the money. This means your break-even price is $.312/LTC before you make any money. Even if I drop an estimated 80% volatility down to 70%, this still puts out a fee of $.054/LTC. As LTC has been on a tear recently, it doesn't benefit you very much either way. Realistically, the first price is more true though.

Also, by my calculations, if this contract were to happen, 420 could use the funds to establish an additional 2800LTC position (at a $.22 average cost estimate) and back your contract by 1/3rd already. So that's a plus for him.

420 should take the funds he has borrowed now and sit on them for awhile and make some money trading. Don't bite off more than you can chew man. (;

I just wanted $500 more, just $500 more! ;)

Looking for an option for about 3 months so Jun 1st would be fine and for 5000 LTC.

what price?

$0.35 strike price for $0.023 fee per LTC thats $115 GOX USD if you like to buy

Alright, send me an address, I will send it via btc.

Received 2.40583 looks like using a price of $47.80

jasinlee is now in an ltc contract expiring June 9th 2013 EST end of day to purchase 5,000 LTC
Let's say 5 contracts of 1,000 LTC that you'd have to purchase 1,000 LTC increments
Price is $0.35 per LTC

Confirmed. Thank you 420.

good doing business

*updated OP

I would like to excersice the rest of my contract as long as LTC stays above 0.34 (please do not liquidate if price go under that).

Thank you
Max

as per your message in BTC-e chat you say 977.21 LTC is the value of your contract

(1,500 less 520 soemthing LTC is about $180 worth which is how much you were to pay me, ($0.12x1,500))

so I'm PM'ing a code for 977.21 LTC

LTC recieved,
TY

Thanks for confirming

If anyone thinks I'm going to take on too many loans than I can handle; bet on it

I put over $80 that I'm not:

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1315

This is specifically directed toward mlawrence and partially to Eisenhower34 & poly

Im not even partially interested in this. You already have now too many liabilities for your repuation.

If you had maken a bet something like "420 doesnt take any more loans (not a single usd / BTC / LTC contract) and doesnt default in the next 12 months" I would have bet $80 against your $80.

"Only the dollar loans will be counted."
That doesn't stop you from taking out loans of thousands of coins.  Just cash.   ::)

Oh wow - you put up $80.   That also won't stop you from running away with thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, will it?

Part of the trust building phase of your Ponzi.

Just curious here..

Is a PONZI illegal if its done with bit coin? I dont understand why HYIP sites arn't really integrated with btc. Even if it's illegal, who comes after you? It seems like btc is prime for scams.

I have received a threat from 420 that unless I stop warning people about his Ponzi, he will flood my inbox with SPAM.    :-\

I just wanted to point out to those paying attention that I only post in this thread occasionally with new information, unless a post is directed at me.  I am not flooding this public thread with useless posts and I will not cease helping out new users, even under threat.

Thank you.

I sent him a bet link that's relevant to the ponzi talk he's been posting in my thread;

you won't get another PM from me asshole. I messaged Theymos as well

GOOD DAY!

http://alfixturedesign.com/420/spam.jpg

I wasn't spamming your thread.  READ THE DEFINITION OF SPAM.


You posted a message and bolded the fact it was directed at me.  I replied.  How was that spam, scammer?

I didn't spam your inbox then. And this is the last reply message on this topic i will send you in the short term

keep up the good work on exposing potential scams & ponzi's to newbies

You sent me four unsolicited messages on different subjects before I asked you to stop, including the one you admitted I was telling the truth about your Ponzi.  I never sent to you or replied to a single message.  That is spamming my inbox.  Again, read the definition.


Thank you - I will keep up the good work.

Looking to execute the full 13k LTC. You still have the $1500 on loan until 6/25/13 upon which those funds will be returned as well. Send to my LTC address (I believe you have it already) and PM me the Tx hash. If you're unsure of the address, I'll PM it to you after work.

I'll give you funds due for the LTC as we discussed. (:

-Moose

alright lets PM and report back here when complete

Alright. Still at work for awhile, so this will take a few hours.

Delivered LTC (13,000) waiting for payment
(I sent first since He already has loaned me money that would cover the loss of this LTC if he didn't pay me for instance)

13K LTC received! $900 Gox code sent to 420 for partial payment. The other $400 will be sent via Dwolla tomorrow when my Gox withdraw limit resets tomorrow.

Thanks for making good 420, now make some more money with that $1500. Remember, return date of 6/25/13. (:

-Moose

yes awaiting final $400 after $900 already received

I have my rooster set to crow on that day to remind me

$400 Dwolla sent!

Received $400 Dwolla. Payment is now complete

remaining business with cptmooseinc only involves a $1,500 loan I am to pay back at the same value before June 25th

Doing any more options?

at $1.50 for $0.04 fee/LTC

Contacted Blazr about paying him back the full $315 early. Originally not due until April 7th

Loaned $200 from Garr255 @ 5% interest for one month due April 19th 2013 in Dwolla or equivalent USD gox (or CoinLab whatever)

As big a star as PatrickHarnett once was ? Hashking? Ineedausername? Pirateat40?
People never seem to learn.

what did PatrickHarnett, Hashking and Ineedausername do?

He is referring to them creating large ponzis then disappearing.

how large were their ponzi's? 1,000x mine? (if I was one ;) )

I dont remember, but this one says "Non-Ponzi" so it is clearly different.

Sent full payment in gox code to Blazr after he messaged me back just recently

yeah great I changed it. just longer title oh well


good, see you around

Made agreement to steamboat to pay back the 22BTC loan 1 month early at half the interest rate (4% instead of 8% for 2 months) payment due to him before April 6th

/signed

Paid back steamboat 22.88BTC to the address he specified in PM

that was my largest credit account, ~$2,000 USD at today's price of around $89

Confirmed received. It was a pleasure.

Building trust in a Ponzi can be expensive!

I will take it (2500) , pm me with BTC amount.

Thank you
Max
PS: We agree to trade with the same conditions of our last trade

Hello again.

I will take this too, please - the full 2,500 LTC, making a fee of 100 LTC.

Let me know what address to send to  :)

I also would like to take this as well please let me know the address to send to.

Well I cancel that offer guys LOL I wokeup. Feel free to buy my $3.00 option

jasinlee, ready to exercise yet?

smoothie you could be a gentlemen and pay me more per LTC i'll let you buy anytime you like

I will take a new option for the 2 x 2500 @ 3.00 = 5000 Total 3 months, and exercise the current 5000 one @ whatever current price is at the time.

Did we scare you off 420? Current price is 4.50.

Oh man. Should NOT have executed and sold @ $.42 last month. Missed out on $47k in profit with this $4 price. So sad right now.

Tell me about it!

I managed to get a $2 option just yesterday, however, so that softens the blow.

Long as I dont have to hunt him down its all good :P

I don't think you will. He was pretty deep in LTC and had been building on reserves. I wonder how much he actually has cuz he could be rich as hell right now. :p

I have enough to buy the new house I was buying cash :)

If I hadn't sold, I'd have enough for 20 6-GPU mining rigs and could've stopped working! Even if difficulty only made profits down to $600/mo rig.

are you ready to exercise.

i'll take bitstamp USD, btc-e USD, or btc in fact DWOLLA preferred payment for the LTC

I am on btce atm, just hit me up on there. Same username and I will just give you a btce code for the 0.35 * 5000 = 1750.

BTCe is lagging too badly so PMed the code to you here, that chat is going crazy. Still doing the other options?

Edit: Never heard from you so added it back to my account. Let me know when you are on PM me on btce so I see you are ready. Or just deduct it from the total and send them to me at the current rate at the time to my signature LTC address.

price 3.80 so 460 ltc

5,000 - 460 = 4540 sent to LQ5v4mfYsk2uN3nseAnawSo7QEsUHCj3V1

Ok the option got terms to post?

3 month 1,000 ltc for $5 at $0.10 fee

Ok, Sent fee via LTC Transaction ID: ac68e7269bc7c8ecdd7513062349aea4bd7520e006629b658aae6d5c76eb189a and strike day would be July 1st 2013.

What about "6 month 1,000 ltc for $5 at $0.15 fee" ?

hmm maybe $0.25

Ok, lock it in.
6 month 1,000 ltc for $5 at $0.25 fee

Need a payment address or can I send via MtGoxUSD?

Just a heads up 420, a call option at $5 strike 6 months from now with the recent volatility should go for no less than $1.08/LTC.

Use this calculator: http://www.danielsoper.com/fincalc/calc.aspx?id=37

Risk free rate can stay the same. Put the spot price (current price) as whatever it is (I used $4.79). Strike is $5. Time to maturity is 180 days. Volatility was entered as 85% (though should probably be higher, but 85% will provide a small discount to make the options attractive).

You really should use this calculator before making any options deals or you'll lose out. $.20/LTC fee isn't even fair for a 30 day option contract. The calculator spits out $.38/LTC for JUST 30 days!!! You must remember that you're taking significant risk (and potential loss of profit if the coin plummets) by making covered call sales, this is why the price should be MUCH higher. Otherwise, you should just hold your coin.

420, if you take this, I suggest these are the parameters:

10,000 LTC option at a strike of $8/LTC. Good for 1 year from date of agreement. Fee of $.89/LTC. If he wants a lower fee than that, he'll have to greatly jack up the strike price or lower the length of the call.

A 6 month call at the same strike would have a fee of $.4089/LTC. A strike of $12 for 1 year would have a fee of $.4660/LTC. Run the calculator first, always!!!

I would like this for 420's info, to be a 3 month and 7$ strike, would this be doable?

I calculate it to be a $.25/LTC fee at the current price of $4.79. Though that could change based on a price shift up or down.

What about call option for 3 months of 1000LTC at 5$? What is the premium?

Run the calculations in the Black-Scholes calculator I posted and you'll see. That way you can customize an offer and make it so you're not having to haggle back and forth.

Ok what would it be for current price, goin to send it in to 420 now and price is at 4.50. So what would it be like 0.23?

420, I didnt get a confirm the ltc arrived, but I do see the payment was confirmed so its probably fine. Just being thorough.

What do you mean? is that a regular wallet or an exchange

http://explorer.litecoin.net/address/LQ5v4mfYsk2uN3nseAnawSo7QEsUHCj3V1

shows 4540 received

everyone else, after seeing recent price I'll offer no options under $10 strike price

I've made enough people rich

Only 4 LOANS & 1 special LTC option left

And whats with mine? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145492.msg1732402#msg1732402

nothing was officially confirmed by me and wouldn't be engaged until payment; see msg above; starting at $10 strike prices


smoothie paid me $1,400 in our new agreement to sell right now 10,000 LTC to him for $0.14 each (double original price of $0.07 he HAD to pay me on jan 1 2014)

confirmed. 420 thank you for your business. Very much appreciated.

 ;D ;D ;D

I am on my phone so will check in the morning but it should be for the whole fee payment made to your ltc address in your signature for the new option.

Nice! Wish I held on to my original contract for as long as you did. I've done well since thankfully.

This deal on its own has proven 420 to be trustworthy.   

i didn't accept any new options officially


thanks. wonder if the naysayers will scram now

I thought that was what that was from.

ok i cancelled that. At that point I thought LTC was only up to $3 high

$10 strike for $0.50 fee for 3 months is what i can do now. 1,000 LTC

I want to buy a put option 1000 LTC @$2.75 for 6 months for $0.25 fee. Interested?

Yeah, can you do $2.50 price for $0.35 fee. can you pay with bitstamp USD?



Updated OP, completed all my LTC options; only 3 open loans left ~$3,500 and trying to payback early

- Pending LTC option to jasinlee

420 contacted me about an early repayment. I accepted the offer and have been repaid in full via GOXUSD codes. Our loan is now closed and I have no further claims against it.

-Moose

420 and I have reached the following agreement: 2 btc for 12+% interest. I will be able to pay back the balance in a maximum of 5 days but will hold the balance a full 30 days unless 420 requests otherwise.

420 and I agreed on early repayment, Loan repayment fulfilled.

Was a pleasure to work with, would happily work with again.

Agreed. 2.24BTC due within 30 days (before may 6th 2013 EST)

Sending btc-e code to him

Fantastic. Updated OP again

Redeemed, thanks! PM me on btc-e if you need to reach me asap (chatbox is basically broken now). 

Paid back BLFC Jordan early

My debt is now only $210

Confirmed, thanks 420. Pleasure doing business with you.

So exactly how rich DID you get off your LTC holdings? :p

I came from the gutter, and I'm still here

You want to move forward with that 7$ strike option we discussed on btc-e.com.

not yet

okay, went under $3.

i would change that to a 5 $ strike now if you change your mind.

Interested in 2000 LTC $5 strike for 6months. Whats the fee?

Come on quit trying to fuck me

$7 strike no lower.

make up some terms to see if I agree

You do realize, if you are offering options, you take a fee for your profit correct? When you purchase the LTC or other option you are simply "holding" it, it should not be considered part of your profits. If you want to invest and hold long term for profit, you should not be doing options.

420, why not just input any of these calls into that calculator link that I provided on page 9 of this thread I think it is? If he wants a $5 strike, with 85% volatility, then anything near or long term he'll have to pay through the nose for. $5 strikes can be done, they'll just cost more which means more cash for you up front.

please post for me again the extra parameters I need to put that are confusing

is the volatility the price range in 1 day or what?

Leave the risk-free interest rate at 5% or below as it won't really factor into the equation that much. Enter the current price, the strike price, the length of the option (in days on the one I posted I believe), and then the volatility. I never actually calculate the real volatility, but rather just guess-timate it. Seeing how cryptos are highly prone to large run ups and huge sell-offs, I usually keep this in the 75-85% range.

You can read more about implied volatility here if you really wish to calculate it out: http://www.utdallas.edu/~tday/6310FAQ3.html

75-85% range should be good. The lower you go, the cheaper the option will be, but not by a whole lot. Remember, if you're selling covered call options then it technically means you think the "stock" (in this case LTC) will not exceed that price before expiration, or that you don't mind selling it for that price from now until expiration. If you're short term bearish, but long term bullish, you should sell short-dated call options (1-3 months max), and offer to buy long-dated put options from people. LTC could still swing violently on long-dated puts, though, so I suggest avoiding them honestly. People could get the calls and basically trade the swings a lot easier without having to day trade as much.

Example:

I buy a 2,500 LTC put option from you with a $3 strike that expires 6 months from now. This means I call sell you 2,500LTC @ $3 = $7500. I don't actually have to hold any LTC myself by doing this, only just pay the premium to get the guarantee.

Now, if LTC take a dive to $2/LTC, even for just a few hours, I could buy 2,500LTC @ $2 and sell to you for an extra $1/LTC. This only costs me $5k, but you give me $7.5k for them. As long as LTC is still trading low, I would then have an extra $2.5k (minus whatever the initial fee was) to buy "free" LTC and take out my $5k investment. If I think LTC will rebound, I buy the LTC and either sell when it recovers or ask for another put option from you (protecting my free money).

Keep your calls and/or puts short-dated. You could even offer "weekly" options if there were any interest in them. If you continue to offer these sorts of contracts, I strongly suggest that you sit down and read more about calls and puts to understand how to better make yourself more money and not just make everyone else rich. Cryptos aren't stocks and have shown to be much more violent when it comes to price swings. This creates what is called a high "beta", which in turn increases the value of the options being traded.

Contacting Garr255 to pay him back $210 due before April 19

Sent payment to Garr255 ($210) to Dwolla as he just agreed in PM

Debt is now: $0

Confirming.

Seeking a fresh $1,000 loan for 3 months @ 15% interest:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178544.msg1860808#msg1860808

also see OP for potential LTC Option

Borrowed $1,000 from Garr255 for 1 month @ 7% interest

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85523.msg1879192#msg1879192

Repaid 2.26667274 BTC (<sorry for the mess ;))

Thanks!

efx paid me back in full just now

+1

Looking to upgrade my mining operation.

500 LTC would do the trick.

I currently mine @2200 Khs. I have 4 Radeon 5970s but I have been unable to use the 4th one as my system will not boot properly with the 4th one installed. I had to disable eSATA to get the 3rd one to work.

The upgrade would allow me to get another similar setup with 2 5970s and the 4th 5970s being the 3rd on the 2nd one.
I currently mine 170 LTC a month. This upgrade would make it possible to mine 340 or so.
I pay no electricity so all the mining is profit.

I have done mining contracts before however I got scammed out of 6.4 BTC and had configuration issues for an entire week so I could make the earlier upgrade work.
Learned quite a bit since and I have a solid setup now that can be duplicated easily.

Not to rain on someone else's thread, but you can kinda see how good someone's credit is by the rate they borrow at.

without collateral I won't do a loan with someone with no credit history

Paid back Garr255 $1,070

Received.

If you're still taking loans, what USD methods do you take them with?

prefer BitStamp USD. I can take VouchX or Dwolla

Hmm, how about PopMoney?  I can also do Dwolla, but PopMoney is the same thing (ACH) and is much easier for me (my bank offers it).

I don't have popmoney. how much do you want to loan?

Not sure.  If I did it, it would be $100 or so.  Also: PopMoney is ACH to your account.  You don't need an account with them.  You give me your email, they send you an email asking for your bank acc info, and they send you the money.

Loan no longer needed.

are you sure this time?

Hahaha yeah. Sorry buddy. It seems whenever I need more coin that someone messages me a few hours after looking to dump a BIG BTC-e code. :p

I've done ~$1500 in BTC-e codes over the past couple of days at random. I sell them fast though and cashout, hence the need for a loan.

PM'ed about loaning to you.

Added minimums for loan rates

can everyone that has loaned to me and been repaid (everyone) show me some trust points?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=60969

just saw that these exist; pretty cool

Alright, for real this time. Won't remove this one. Hahaha:

2.5BTC needed for 1 month. Will repay 2.75BTC in 30 days. I have some things I need to take care of before I go offshore for two weeks on Wednesday and BTC-e code purchases have slowed (or it's just that I did a few huge purchases that were waiting for me to come back from vacation).

If you agree, send to the BTC address in my signature and I'll repay it within 30 days from the time stamp. ^_^

Sorry for all the wishy-washyness lately. Seems BTC-e codes always come my way after these requests. I won't remove it this time even if another one comes. (:

Thanks!
-Moose

alright it's yours. payback 2.75BTC by June 27th 2013 1PM Pacific Time

Received! Thanks!

received payment back in full