Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin to End Government and Change the World... Get Out Of The Banking System Now (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CKkR_8UFNM)

But financial institutions and banks are now creating their own blockchains so I guess government wont end.

I guess the end of governments is every person's individual matter. I choose not to be governed and thus to me governments no longer exist. If enough people did it, that would become a cold hard reality.

they fear the repercussions by going with bitcoin, because they know that it is not seen well, government is like legal mafia, can subjugate their citizens, and they will submit to it

fear of changing is the primarily reason why bitcoin is not yet globally adopted

The blockchain network those banks and government will be creating will be centralized one so they are not even close to be competitor of bitcoin. People will start loving decentralized things.

really? Who collects your bins, provides your local police force, paves the streets and runs any streetlamps? Or who pays the people who do those things?

You are governed whether you delude yourself into thinking otherwise or not.

don't fool yourself into thinking that these services are actually the reason why we absolutely need governments. people can easily do these things themselves and free market would provide supply wherever there is demand. be it street pavements or lamps, does not matter.

Bitcoin and TRUMP will change the world ;D

lol trump is in the recruiting phase like all the politicians do before elections, after they get power nothing changes. I agree on the bitcoin though a real tool of change!

Of course... but for now, you are governed, if you like it or not. Thats just how a government rolls, they don't asks for your permission, they just take the money and provide you with services you might want. (owh and of course we all know who is really benefiting from all these government services..... the government herself)

quite true. I was wondering today what if I never gave any signature to anywhere. would I then be a free man? In theory it seems to be possible to live like that. Just pay in cash for goods and services and pay only the taxes that are fair (VAT, for example). Do not form a contract with any bank, demand payments in cash or bitcoins and when at the job interview, demand the amount of money your would get AFTER TAXES. This way you are not paying any taxes, not even the income tax because you made a specific payment requirement and you don't have to give a damn how your employer and the government settle this out.

reserved

Then you would still not be completely free, you already state it yourself multiple times. You mention VAT and money "after taxes". You even state that VAT is fair... wtf.... Armed robbery is never fair. They should never ever get their sticky hands on your hard earned money (cash/bitcoins/gold/numbers on a bankaccount/rocks/etc.) In addition the government will still demand taxes for your garbage collection or property rights or what ever, and they WILL take it from you.

Besides giving a signature is perfectly fine, i mean if its your choice to make a contract with  bank, whats the problem then? In fact the things that are forced upon you, without you needing to sign/forcing you to sign, THAT is the problem. That is suppression.

VAT is fair because it's essentially a fee for a service. People are working on the borders to sort out illegal imports, for example. This is a service and I feel OK paying for such a service. You are not obliged to consume those services and since rich people can afford to consume more they naturally pay more taxes in the form of VAT. Income tax, on the other hand, is not fair. In fact, it is unehtical because it basically means that your wealth does not really belong to you. The government gets to get the first cut and you will get the lousy remnants.

Giving a signature empowers the rule of law, which is corrupt in its roots. Because people are unable to enforce the law in a just manner, it should be discarded as an obsolete fallacy. What is more, contracts are often abused by including small prints in them to rip people off. I think people are giving out signatures way too easily. It is not OK to have pages and pages long contracts just to form a gym membership, for example. You're right about the things forced upon you without needing you to sign them first though.

VAT is not part of the service you are buying... It's a third party (the government) ripping you both (the seller and the buyer) off.... A fee, you say, what in hell gives the government the right to add a fee to a product? Fair taxes don't exist IMO, for example what if the government decides to triple the VAT taxes, would you still find it to be fair then? or when they 10-fold it? VAT is still THEFT from our wealth!

Also VAT is in no way correlated to the people working on borders. If you feel you want to pay for people working on the borders, then buy THAT service. But don't justify VAT (which is being forced onto everyone) for that purpose. For instance, I like roads, they are partly payed via income tax, so now income tax is okay, no fucking way.

I am confused if you like government or not, it seems you like some of the services and you even approve some of their robberies of our wealth (VAT). On the other hand you don't like income tax and hate being governed.

In regards to the signature, its peoples own choice to sign stuff, if they don't read the fine prints that is their own responsibility IMO. If you don't like a gym contract with many pages of fine print, you can also decide to NOT take the service. I really don't understand your problem with signatures tbh, yes people could be more carefull, but that is not really the fault of the signatures right?

Well some taxes are justified while others are completely criminal. In short, all taxes are criminal, but VAT is definitely less criminal than the income tax. And if the government increased VAT 10 times there will be consequences, so they probably won't do that. That's why they invented the income tax instead, which pretty much says that you are someone else's property and all your income belongs to someone else. And if that is not enough, many people take loans and get into even deeper slavery.


No problem with signatures. Free market sorts this one out. You don't have to go to a gym where there is a contract. However, I don't like the fact that signing is secretly made a normal and casual act. What if I didn't sign a thing in my life? Perhaps this would disrupt the system enough that it would accelerate its collapse, if all people did that. The bottom reason for all this is the fact that you are an object to your government. Your government gets loans from banks using you as a collateral. Instead, you should belong to yourself and you should make it very clear to everyone that you are not your legal name. So hypothetically, perhaps by not signing some papers to get an ID and what not, you are somewhat more free of a person than others?

Whelp, you'd be without a bank account and jobless. How is this any different from where you are now?

false

Wait...you don't pay for your garbage service?

What happens when you have a problem with your service? You can't just change garbage collection companies?

I don't (directly) pay for my garbage service. Zero choice re. who collects it, also had zero problems. I also currently have no choice re. my water, sewage, and power providers. Everything seems to be working OK tho.

If something fails, you can probably fill out a form, which you can drop in a box, and then the form will go to a desk. Thats it I think :P

The issue that I've always had with these videos is that they say "They're creating a one world government for 'X' and this is 'X'" and other conspiracies abound within this shell.

Simply put, they have 0 reasons to make a world government. The top of the top would only meet resistance if they tried to form a single world government, an action that would be seen by many around the world as a power grab or other dubious action, and would likely see decreased revenue because of this. If the top opt to rather keep the status quo, they can make assloads of money without resistance, aside from what we see now.

it's not about money. but you have been brainwashed very well by them as you clearly think money is the number one thing everyone should be after ;D

Government is now becoming a joke. They have increased taxes to an extent that the bills have become lesser than the tax charged and it does need to end but it will never end. Government is just a name behind people who control the economy and charge people for things they don't even get. I feel there will come a time when banks will create their own crypto currency instead and kill bitcoins.

I don't think money is something everyone should be going after, I'm just saying they're making enough that they can buy whoever and whatever they want and wouldn't need a world government because they could buy it from the shadows. A world government would make it obvious, at least with multiple countries they maintain some obscurity.

People who want money can go and get money, and it is those people who the elite buy and use them as a proxy.

I'm also not sure how a single statement means money is the one thing I think everyone should be going after, but whatever.

well that's the thing about online debates, you will be misinterpreted, a lot, on purpose. as for the money, as I said, it's not about the money, it is about establishing the Luciferian Doctrine all over the world. And no, it doesn't make any sense to me neither but who said it had to make sense?

My garbage, water, sewage and power are all private companies.

So...the idea that by not relying on government those things go away is a failed assumption.

There are also private roads and private police forces. I even had a private fire department when I lived in Georgia. One of the highest rated fire departments in the state.

I actually did have a problem once with my garbage service. So I cancelled their service and called a new company. Meanwhile the next county over that had a public garbage service was having a big controversy over their garbage service not picking up garbage, people had to complain to the government, the unions got involved, there were protests and hearings. Idiotic.

Private companies are fine until the point they make a monopoly.
In my country the gas prices are kinda same everywhere and whatever changes, they only go up.


Although I am 100% certain that the current way the governments are is wrong (all they care about is to get elected and steal our money), there must be some sort of government that can provide the tools to force private companies to play fair.

I also favour the existence of a government but a very minimalistic one indeed. Perhaps monopolies are one of the few issues the governments should take care of. And representational democracy is a failed experiment that should be thrown out the window right away. A form of weighted direct democracy would be much better. A citizen in the government would be something like a shareholder in a company.

I agree. But it is usually governments that create a monopoly. Monopolies cannot exist in a free market.

When the Bell patent on the telephone expired thousands of phone companies popped up. The government ended up giving monopoly power to the Bell phone companies for local and AT&T for long distance for over 50 years (that 50 years where we had the same dial telephones). Imagine how advanced our phone technology would have been long ago had the government not given them that monopoly.

Very true.


I think they can. Each company has some quantity limits. If you cannot sell more, sell more expensive and discuss with the neighbor company that could be the competition to keep up the price and don't interfere with you so both will earn more with less effort.

The real problem is patents. Patents should not exist, at all, ever. If multiple people come to the same idea at once then patents are not at all fair, so the idea of patents is broken in its core.

Look at the early days of Bitcoin exchanges.

MtGox had a virtual monopoly for a long time because they had first mover status. They thrived because they were first and benefited from it.

Small exchanges started popping up offering things that MtGox was not offering. But they still were not able to do as well as Gox. Some came and went while Gox continued on.

Then MtGox started getting shitty and people realized that they needed to start trying these other exchanges. The other exchanges, fortunately, matured as MtGox finally crashed and burned.

Imagine if MtGox had gained a patent on the "Bitcoin Exchange" process. We would have all been screwed.

And mtgox would have been bailed out by the government(s) on the expense of people :D because surely mtgox would have been too big to fail.

Probably.
Though in my entire lifetime, across all the countries I have ever lived in, nothing has ever happened to make me want to fill out that form.

Your water and sewage are private companies? Something smells. Where do you live/name of companies?
Unless, of course, you got a septic tank and a well.

Has anyone ever suggested that it's metaphysically impossible to have those things without a government?
London, for instance, used to do just fine without public water and sewage ...scratch that, it did just fine just fine until Thames turned into an open sewer (because no jackboots with their environmental regulations, lol), Cholera epidemics broke out, and, after The Great Stink of 1858 (https://bitcointalk.org/wiki/Great_Stink), people decided that maybe letting everyone poop wherever they want to -- in the street, in the Thames -- was just too much freedoms. In come city sewage.

Perhaps you might peruse a few history books? Learn how come we got them gubermint institutions and intrusive regulations we gots today? Might take some of your edge off.

Yes, there are. They're called "driveways." You lay a road on your property, and it's a private road.

In Somalia, yes.

Really? Which one is it? Link? Because every time I search for privatized fire departments, I keep getting stuff like this http://www.nytimes.com/1998/03/13/nyregion/experiment-in-private-fire-protection-fails-for-a-westchester-village.html?pagewanted=all

Where was this again? Name of the company and the one you switched to?
I mean sure, I've lived in BVI for a bit and garbage collection was private, as was sewage (septic tanks, of a sort), and water (collect rain into a sistern below the house where the basement usually is, call water truck if you run out), as was power (one private company with bigass diesel generator/intermittent service and no competition, your own diesel generator as alternative), as were most of the roads (AFAIK, had to pay a guy with a CAT to clear/level mine after a storm).

This worked fine, but shit don't scale.  Laying multiple parallel sewer lines and building multiple sewage processing plants is simply idiotic. As is having to call a guy with a backhoe to disconnect you from TastySew sewer line and lay some pipe to hook you up to Exclusive Sewage Services every time TastySew raises its prices. Ditto for multiple water mains.
Do I really need to explain this stuff?

Good video, definitely they are talking about some vital problems and bitcoin could be a cure for some of them for sure.
But what pains me is some comments under that video on YouTube:


People are still living in the dark and have no idea how bitcoin works, what open source is and why bitcoin is secure, in fact more secure that FIAT ever was.

You think that city = country? So a problem of a particular city should be solved on the governmen level? BS. Your comparison is weak. Each city should have their own small government for dealing with such problems but there is no need for a one giant government.

My sewer company is Ni Florida. http://www.niamerica.com/
Water company is Hudson Water Works. http://hudsonwaterworks.org/
Electric company is Withlacoochee River Electric Cooperative. https://www.wrec.net/
I believe the fire department I used in Georgia was Martinez Fire Dept. http://www.yellowpages.com/augusta-ga/mip/martinez-fire-dept-468251683?lid=468251683

Private police force in Detroit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqlVL26jrCA


Private highways:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_highways_in_the_United_States

City problems are dealt with by local governments (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_government). We elect city officials, like the mayor, or the dog catcher.We can even elect our Sheriff, if we live in the sticks. What we do not elect is our war chief, to defend us from the frickin' commies over in the next county, or from the vicious tacos from 'cross the border. That's what the feds are for.
Read books, bro.

In the 80s when they were talking about breaking up the telephone monopoly most people saw no need to break it up because phone service was just fine. Many people were fearmongering about how we would not be able to use our phones, anarchy, chaos etc.

One story I recall was someone talking about a city in Mexico (probably untrue) that had allowed competition between telephone companies. They said that they went to one person's house in that city and they had 5 different phones in their house, one for each telephone company because they had to have one for each company because not all of their friends and family were using the same company.

Some people just have no imaginations of why freedom may be preferable to the current status quo.

You had a volunteer fire department? Well, there's a surprise! Yes, those are a thing in small towns, don't work in big cities, see: Don't scale. Also aren't for-profit companies. Also first result on Google:
http://s32.postimg.org/47p8haq85/Capture.png

Private police force that doesn't exist? Or are you talking about mall cops/bank guard/gated communities? Those exist, work just fine & rely on the real jackboots to handle all the major shit (murders don't get handled by private pigs).

The private police force that was created because the Detroit police force was so bad that even though protection was "free" people were willing to pay for actual protection, and they got it.

I couldn't care less whether or not you believe government is necessary or not. There are those of us out here moving beyond all that noise. Mostly thanks to Bitcoin.

Dude, that edge! You're like a kid running away from home because mom makes him go to school and won't let him hang out at the mall with Scooter and Goober all day.  After the first night sleeping under a bridge, prodigal son returns.
Sure, Detroit is broken. And many people die by a surgeon's knife.
This doesn't mean that modern medicine sucks and we should hit up a witch doctor whenever we feel sick.

No, it's not lack of imagination.
Just like it's not due to lack of imagination that I don't want to be my own butcher, my own brain surgeon or my own bank. It's just because OTHER PEOPLE DO IT BETTER, and I DO SHIT I LIKE TO DO BETTER.

So I let my banker do my banking, and, in turn, when he goes out to a club, he gets to pay musicians and bartenders and dope dealers, instead of staying home and playing some tunes on his Casio, mixing his own drink and cooking his own meth.
That's called living in society.

Read books? You must be kidding me. Like seriously? What if it is you who should read books other than the ones written by statist jews?

Anyway, your argument seems to be that we need government for the protection.

Here (https://christophercantwell.com/2014/05/02/anarcho-capitalist-society-repel-invasion/)'s a nice article targeting your concerns.

The short answer to your concern is this: every mentally sane citizen should have the right to own and carry firearms. I'd like to see a foreign statist invasion if there is a rifle behind every leaf of grass. The native americans were only defeated because they didn't have firearms. We don't have such issue any more, everyone can have a firearm and thus it would be impossible to defeat an anarcho capitalist society in conventional warefare.

When I used to pay income taxes they took that money and armed/funded ISIS.

They were only able to take that money from me because people were ok with it. Because roads and shit.

Silly goy don't know all books are written by statist jooz ::)

http://s32.postimg.org/rddno620z/jew_laughting_at_you.gif

whatever, try harder

Lol, yes, they also took your money to defeat Hitler. They also took your money and funded DARPA, so thank them for not being smoke rising out of Topf and Sons BBQs and the internet.
Government soften do shitty things with money, and food often makes us sick, but living without governments and without food is not the awesome alternative you think it is.

@Hyena: So I agree with the schmuck and still he kvetches? Oy vey!

OMG what a complete moron you are. And this piece of shit recommends others to read books?! Hypocrisy overload.

Hitler was put in power with your tax money IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Learn some history, dumbass:

World Defeated The Wrong Enemy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm34sj65MkA)
Hitler Was Working For The Illuminati (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYBU95nTPUc)
Albert Pike's 3 World Wars (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m581aW5AH4M)

Whichever, I no longer fund their corruption. I leave those who love it to it.

Bitcoin allowing me to be my own bank and no longer rely upon government fiat was a big step. The rest will come.

this looks great in theory and when you talk about it from the perspective of somebody who already knows bitcoin and loves it but when i look at what really is happening this (bitcoin replacing the current banking system) seems like a very far goal with a lot of big obstacles in from of itself.

http://s32.postimg.org/gbztff0sl/ohwow.jpg
Smoked shitloads of DMT back in the days, didn't you buddy?

try harder loser, this crackpot ad hominem is getting old and no one gives a shit. By the way, DMT isn't smoked, it's vaporized. But I guess if you had read any books you would know that, mr. book-reader (ROFL).

Dig the huge brain on Hyena! :D
Sure, meowdammit is vaporized. As is crack.
Next time a retard asks you if you wanna vaporize a rock, or vaporize some DMT, or vaporize some meth for that matter, consider not taking them up on it, K Tiger? :D

haha, you so funny

Sorry, didn't mean to make you look like an idiot in front of your equally edgy buddies.

https://i.imgur.com/A9l3N2l.jpg

Oh wow, so you like pictures too? We are so similar, we should probably marry and have children. But first they will have to put a vagina implant between your legs so I could give you birth pains for all this bullshit you have been producing today.

Btw, here's a picture of you...
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/38/17/8b/38178b1b885c4231fe3624230637276c.jpg

...did you find yourself already?

Yup, everything will come eventually, and we might finally get to a point where we are free of the banks controlling every aspect of our lives and inflating the monetary supply, devaluing the work we do.

I cannot wait for that day, and it would be truly liberating to finally get out of that system and into something more viable and logical.

yes, bitcoin will change the world and change all government regulation of the economy, and most likely bitcoin will stand or better than the banks even in terms of security

That is ridiculous.Bitcoin can not end governments.It can facilitate many financial transactions and solve other monetary problems but can uproot governments.

I think that Bitcoin will change the world.  However, it certainly won't "end government."   There will be some drastic changes in how people are taxed and controlled.  Perhaps some "seismic" shifts in currency values as well as which governments are in power.  It won't end well for most, sadly.