Bitcoin Forum

Hello forum!

I have taken a vouch copy of a very new member on this site, he said it was an kind of illegal method.
So I got the vouch copy and said that it was profitable but not very recommend to do. Then I get negative rating from user KWH for promoting illegal make money schemes. Now it turned out that the whole method was fake. If you read this you will know it:http://altenen-thieves.blogspot.nl/ (http://altenen-thieves.blogspot.nl/).

I think I do not deserve negative trust, I have done many trades, with many people. I never scammed anyone a single penny, but still I get negative trust fir something which is not true, and if u look at it afterwards, it is completely false. I don't know what I should do now.

Now I asked KWH if he wants to remove/change his feedback, but no reply. Please tell me what u think!

(Changed title, now hope he reply's)

this user has been a cliemt of mine and has paid ne bitcoin in the past, i think what hqaooenbed  was a simple misunderstanding on Fruit Baskets part. there should be no negertive trudty with fruit basket.

Maybe not vouching for every shit over and over again would be a solution for this problem?

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I highly agree with that.

Thanks for your kind words!
That would be the solution for me, I believe people to much, and didn't think that there are soo many scams on the internet. I hope KWH can do anything instead of just ignoring me.

@KWH, In my vouch review I said that it is not very recommended to do. I think u mis understood me since I said that u won't do anything illegal by yourself, u made a comperassion that robbing a bank and only drive the get away car is also nothing illegal by yourself. It is different here, the site was fake, which I found out after u left me negative trust. I don't know if you are going to read this, but I hope you do.

OP, when receiving a vouch copy you have no obligation to the seller, but rather to the forum members that read it. If the e-book you received a vouch copy of includes an illegal method you'd need to be impartial and out the one that posted it instead of trying to dodge the hard part in an attempt to post a positive review. Your review was irresponsible at best.

I'd say that KWH's negative rating was a bit harsh as you didn't scam anybody yourself. But you should really know better, cooperating with people openly advertising illegal methods to earn money would obviously make you look bad.

fruitsbasket didn't scam anybody personally, or at all in that matter. If he was a scammer, he would not have paid me for the programming work I've done for him.

Thanks for your opinion, I never would scam anyone as tommorisonwebdesign said, he is one of the many people I dealt with. I really hope that KWH will change the feedback, also I learned that I eill never give a vouch again. When I get a vouch copy I feel a kind of doubt to the seller, so that makes me to. I am confused right now and hope it will be solved.

I just scrolled through your trust rating history and I think that there is actually nothing to worry about.
You have good reviews from quite amount of users and just some meaningless reds from other reds.
Stay fair and I'm positive that You will rehabilitate your trust ratings soon.

IMO KWH's ratting is written with poor English, it will be negligible very soon if you satay fair
with others, of course :)

Read it again, understand the structure of the comment, while it's written shortly and compressed, there's nothing wrong with the language he uses.
Besides that, that shouldn't be the base upon valuing trust ratings.
(Your rating is written in bad english, it's invalid and what you say is wrong./That user has perfect, good english, he surely can't be lying about what he says.)

While the others (with which op 'stood fair') are not on DT, KWH is.
As a result, without OP getting a 'counter' or unrelated positive feedback from another person on DT or without KWH being kicked from DT (which I think is unlikely to happen),
OP will stay at -2: -1 / +0 (for default settings).

tl;dr: trust scores don't magically 'negligible' themselves.

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Ofc, that's a problem when your signature campaign kicks all users with negative trust ratings (or at least doesn't pay them).

I know trust score is free to use, but come on I did not scam anyone or did recommend it. After writing my vouch copy I googled and found out about some crazy things. Then I deleted my feedback.

I'm aware that he didn't scam anybody himself. Personally, I believe that a neutral rating would also be appropriate. But I also believe that people have the right to post whatever trust rating they want. Since trust ratings aren't moderated, what ypu can do if you think KWH's rating is inaccurate feel free to cross him out from your trust list and add FruitsBasket instead.

You know what makes me sick is that there are tons of real scammers that loan scam, exchange scam or chargeback scam. I did not do any of them and also get threated like them. I don't think it is fair, however I can't help it.

If KWH will not edit/remove his trust rating I need to get a compensated trust rating. So I will be doing alot of stuff to get my account cleaned, which will take very long. I still don't know why KWH is being so harsh... I see his online almost every hour and doesn't reply.

The way I understand it the "method" was to buy stolen goods, right? Knowingly buying stolen goods is something illegal you do by yourself, 100% illegal.

TBH the fact you are interested on how to buy stolen (illegally obtained) goods make me think you're not very trustworthy.

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I don't know if it deserves negative trust but yours was definitely not the best behavior. I think probably a neutral one would be better but it's very arguable. I really don't think sending more PMs or accusing KWH of abusing the trust system will help you. I advise you to just stop vouching illegal methods and ask him again after several weeks/months.

Okay, I will stop PM'ing KWH, but I certainly doubt he will ever edit/ remove editing. I feel like I wasted my time here. No vouch copy's for me anymore, not falling for such things again.

Does vouching work the same here as it does on TwoplusTwo?
Meaning that if the person runs off you will pay for the loses. It really curtails who people vouch for and strengthens that aspect and eliminates multi accounts vouching for one another.

No, it doesn't (asuming from what you've described).
Generally, a 'vouch' just means, that the user tests something and writes a (brief) review about the article/method.
Often, those aren't even trusted/established users, and many times, those vouch reviews are shitty (imo).
IMHO, most of the vouches are just cheap (free) ways to get the product, rather than having any meaning behind them.

The only thing you stand to lose is your reputation, and these days, even that could go untouched when 'vouching' for shitty service #123. (Note: Generally speaking, not related to FruitsBasket and this case, as I think it's something special)
Besides that, it would be hard to enforce a rule like this on vouches over here, and to determine the loses for what it's worth.

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Won't change shit, as he didn't "use trust incorrectly".
There are only very few, limited ways to do that, and the way KWH left trust was not "incorrectly".
You might disagree with their opinion, but that hardly makes someones opinion incorrect.

Why would you do that in the first place?
Unless you live under a rock, you must have known there is a push back going on here against crappy scamming/illegal stuff and negative trust is being left for people supporting/facilitating it.

Don't blame/harass KWH, this is called consequences of actions.

My my, 5 PM's. I do not stay on here 24/7 as I have a job.
Let's look at this problem a little closer:

1.On the 10th post (yours) that seems to be deleted, you ignore all the other post telling of the illegality of this "method" and decide to grab a vouch copy. You left a vouch (which is still in the OP) and received a Negative for doing so. Your motives for doing so aside, why do you not report to a Mod about your vouch being in the OP against your wishes? Why was your vouch post deleted? In vain I might add as it has been captured for posterity.


To vouch is to:

Definition of vouch

    transitive verb

    1
    :  to summon into court to warrant or defend a title

    2
    archaic a :  assert, affirm b :  attest

    3
    archaic :  to cite or refer to as authority or supporting evidence

    4
    a :  prove, substantiate b :  to verify (a business transaction) by examining documentary evidence
    intransitive verb

    1
    :  to give a guarantee :  become surety

    2
    a :  to supply supporting evidence or testimony b :  to give personal assurance

So, you verified this was a money maker, illegal, but not by yourself.


I guess it's not "that illegal" if someone else is involved and you make massive profits.
This can be looked at at least 2 ways:
1. You are grasping anything to get a freebie and profit, read greedy.
2. You are an alt. of the OP, trying to get one over on the community and make massive profits.

You trying to force me into a reply and bringing this to a forum trial really speaks volumes about your integrity/honesty. Deleting your posts is also not a trustworthy thing to do in this case as it appears you are trying to cover your tracks.
The Negative is warranted, along with the OP.
However, If you take steps to correct your errors, I will review my rating at a later date. This does not apply to the OP.

First of all thanks for replying.

I deleted my vouch post since it was not true anymore what I said in the vouch because the whole method is fake. I am 100% sure not an alt of the OP, u can ask moderators to confirm that. For now I will just behave myself and close this thread since I got my answer. I will contribute to the community and hope u will edit ur feedback later. I deleted everything, my skype, chats and all because after I know I was fooled I was angry. I know that is stupid. The OP asked me to write a quick good review, he seemed to be in a hurry.

I have left negative ratings for the OP's alt accounts:
BestWebCreator - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=550758
waterpile - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=301123

If anything changes please let me know.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1105363.msg11817749#msg11817749 133CqsoPdT1Pp9sDysCUme28jHt3aibyJH is linked to waterpile

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1155775.msg14443533#msg14443533 https://directbet.eu/BetStatus.cshtml?BetID=1BMEijdSJP1vfpYHquheVDtRZz9zFMoVdn is linked to BestWebCreator

If these accounts are fruitbaskets, he's been here long enough to know better.

Are you able to explain more how you got a positive vouch for it?   And how did you come to realize it did not work?  You left a glowing review saying of huge profits.... so one would assume you tested it before saying that.   So I think that is where a lot of logical people start to have trouble.



Going from a vouch like that to saying it is fake just is like a 180 going opposite way.  Then to say you deleted everything to do with it all......  I think you are going to have a hard time getting the neg's removed unless you can give a logical anwser to how you came up with vouch.   The "NOTE: this method is kinda illegal" should have screamed to stay away from it.

I think you would be better off explaining what happened like the questions I asked vs. just calling out the person who gave neg. But that is just my 2 cents.

pretty sure that waterpile sold fruitsbasket last year on this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1185089.msg12473339#msg12473339). post count and activity matches perfectly (http://archive.is/HWAg4) and Fruitsbasket's password was changed (http://archive.is/mAR4S#selection-7572.0-7572.3) very shortly after that.

I removed my negative trust for waterpile. I didn't think the password change pattern indicted a sale, but that thread makes it reasonable enough to say it was sold.

I think this yet another example of how this forum has gone to shit. I've programmed for OP and he has always paid me. It may have been a bit naive on fruitbaskets part to say the method, or whatever he was selling, but i don't think he should be red flagged for it. everybody makes miswtakes.

Are you an alt of the OP?

Nope, but the OP was a client of mine.

edit; and who are you to accuse me of being a scammer? You faked escrow services.

I am not a scammer. My alt is BesWebCreator. Fine I give up, one wrong vouch and everything is gone.
Waterpile is not my alt.

Its not about one wrong vouch mate. End of the day you were condoning to a scam and it only shows you to be a untrustworthy person by nature. Change your ways and in due time im sure KWH will revise his feedback.