Bitcoin Forum

DO IT

DOOOOOOOOOOO IT.

Then I can get one.

Same!! IT's not the price it's the fact I don't want to use 1200 Watts in my appt. 2-600 watts okay.

Avalon! Make a 200-400W miner! BitFury, support the development of 200-400W miners! Help wrestle some of the market away from Bitmain!

Why?

There are better ways to throw away your money.

Some people like to spend money on fast cars or craft beers or shoes or any number of things many consider useless. Some people want to spend money on home-scale mining gear many consider useless.

I think of it like buying wrenches instead of taking a car to a mechanic. Some people like being more self-sufficient.

To "BITMAIN!! Make a 200-400 Watt miner!!" i say;

SIDEHACK!! Make a 200-400 Watt miner!!

I know its more or less up to you, however.

Exactly. Don't bother with mining if you don't have free electricity at all. It just doesn't make sense at the moment and also it doesn't worth the trouble. Find a way to get free electricity only after then start mining.

why can't more see it this way it has nothing to do with RoI but does which if we had these kind of miners  everyone would have and kept the differently down and slowly increased it and bitmain Polly would have  made more, they shut out a whole different group of buyer with the S7 to me said fuck you pretty much and (were just starting to see who really cares),they all ready had the market. so when  I say : not every one worries about ROI and they come back with BS excuses, i don't say anything because no mater what i say there right ... and  2 post below yours proves that thought .


cya

spazzdla will burn his money how he sees fit.

yup fuck them it's not there life or money .

You guys can just buy 1 GPU and mine ETH. It will use 200 watts.

Who says we want to mine anything other than bitcoin? Some people don't support altcoins.

I'd rather see bitmain improve their firmware by using mainline cgminer instead of their terrible forked version....

I do it all to but would love to see some more of bit main stuff priced for home use and not be told by others suck up it, deal with it or how ever you want to put it or what way  .

Same, most of it is for fun but that doesn't mean I/we can't have update to stuff either . That extra champ change or what ever anyone wants to call it i might get, does come in handy from time to time.  

Large companies do not cater to the small fry. They could care less about the guy wanting to run a few tiny units in his apartment. If they spent all that money and R&D time to make a small miner....sure they might sell 1000 or so to the fools that dont care about losing money....but as a company they wont even recoup their costs on building it. So they build a larger miner and sell them by the thousands to mining farms and actually make money. Yet everyone wonders why they dont make smaller miners anymore when the answer seems pretty obvious. I mean all these companies used to make small miners...if they thought there was a market that could support them they would not have stopped.

The problem isn't that there isn't a market. The problem is that it's a harder market. Shipping a hundred machines on a pallet to one technically-competent person is a lot easier than shipping out a hundred machines to a hundred idiots who then need support. So they're willing to take a slight hit (in Bitmain's case, it's what, 1% off the purchase price?) to sell to a few giants who won't ask a lot of questions rather than sell to a thousand idiots with a dozen questions each if you get the same amount of money from either group. Bitmain wants to maximise profits, and if you can get the same revenue while unloading 90% of your support staff salary your profits just went up.

If I knew that I was guaranteed to sell 1000 units, it'd be worth my time to R&D and manufacture a small miner. It's not that the dev and manufacturing costs aren't enough to recoup it. The logistics of mass shipping and customer support (which Bitmain has sucked at for years now, think how much worse it'd be with twice as many customers) is what makes it annoying. Actually, what I want to build I can pretty much guarantee will sell at least 1000 units; the only thing stopping me is access to chips.

Okay  right now the marketcap is

  bitcoin at  6.87 bill
 ethcoin at  1.97 bill

https://coinmarketcap.com/


This is a direct result of  asic builder sucking their own cocks so to speak.   Feels good  and you think you don't need anyone or anything else in the world.   Eventually you close the loop and die off.

Bitmaintech
Avalon
Bitfury
B&W

Could be in a world of shit very soon.   Just track the marketcap.

Do you want to mine bitcoins? 

 Rent an ethminer from me  I can pay 2x  what you get from renting an s-7 from nicehash.

the in balance has been caused by  Asic miners  just pleasuring them selves from self mining and restricting asic chips to the rest of the world.


See this thread   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1477094.msg14904329#msg14904329

moved from bitcoin to alt coin. Just because people do not see the hand and hand relationship  alt coins and btc have.

Oh well.


To be transparent  I have

210-220 mh  mining Eth coin    power used =  1900watts    monthly earnings 805 usd  power cost is 255 net = 550

27th             mining  Btc coin   power used =  7000watts     monthly earning  925 usd power cost is 0    net = 462

my deal is  free power and split coins on the 27th.



I have some compac sticks mining at bravo-mining,
I have some eth coins,
I have some btc coins,
I have some cash,
I have some btc loaned to people,

So shift the cap on btc to 5 bill  and on  eth to 3 bill   and the aisc builders are in bad shape.

Me thinks we could be seeing a fundamental shift away from BTC to ETH. 

Mostly caused by asic builders  fucking the pooch.

But I have been wrong before so time will tell.

Yeah   I will keep mining eth for now along side BTC. But If I did not have my good power deals  for the btc gear It would be almost all eth coin.

In fact I am trying to get two really reliable eth miners setup to mine at my friends shop in Brooklyn Navy Yard.  I have one built will build the other soon.


So bitmaintech  this is what is happening to people that would prefer mining with your gear. 

We are mining with pc/gpu's  and bypassing you.  Since mining eth coin and exchanging some for BTC is cheaper then what you offer.

Want a 200-400W miner ?
Get a S7 from ebay or amazon ... remove 2 hashing boards from left and right side , leave the one in the middle ... get a 750-800W 80 PLUS Certified power supply if you want to run just one hashing board ... keep the 2 hashing board as a spare or sell it on ebay as a parts for S7 .. set the fan to 45% or less , but watch the board temp and adjust the fan speed as need it , try to keep the temp around 60-65 ... and you good to go :) you have a 400-450W miner with 1.5TH/s hashing power . If you want less power usage you can always under clock your miner ;)
You can get a used S7 under 600$ , im sure the price is going down in the future as we are closer to the halving event in July ... You can sale each hashing board around 150$ right now.. so from 300$ you have a 400W miner + have to spend some money on a PSU ...

If you're going that route, don't forget to chuck the housing and redo the airflow entirely because the fin-dense heatsinks aren't designed for the low-pressure airflow you're going to get from a fan blowing into a mostly open space. Make sure the end of the board farthest from the fan doesn't burst into flames. Also make sure you can afford the initial outlay of buying three times as much miner as you want and then making some back by parting it out. Also make sure you don't lose your shirt on it when new gear with half the power use come out about the same time the block reward is halved within two months.

philipma1957,I agree almost completely with your wall-O-text  :D

You gotta blame Bitfury for NOT selling ANYTHING to home miners in recent years,perpetuating the corp miners takeover  :P

You gotta blame KnC for the same  :P

Avalon & Bitmain at least SOLD MINERS to us lowlifes  ::)

Even though early on Avalon SCREWED over the home miner market by with holding bought & paid for chips for the Klondike home miners  :P

Then there's Hashfast/Bitmine/Black Aorrow that took that cash out of miners,kept the hash power out of home miners hands  :P

BFL & a few others for VERY late delivery of any hash power to home miners,further wringing out the home miners  :P

I really,really hope to see BTC fall flat & any other GPU/CPU mined coin take over  ;D

I'll support those coins for as long as I can find & afford GPU's ,which is forever  :D

+1, best way to get a 400W miner.

I done this ... don't need to redo the airflow ... that miner is running for months now , in one of my friend apartment bc electricity is free there :) ... Fan set to 45-50 % ambient temp is around 20-23C , hashing board is around 60-65C ... i still have that 2 hashing boards as a spare :)
when new gear with half the power use come out you will be able to buy a used antminer s7 probably around 2-300$ or less ... but you have to pay big $$$$'s for the new gear with half the power use , just think what you paid for the S7 first batch ...

Unfortunity there are not miners for X11 who bitmain make.

X11 really is too small a market to support multiple ASIC makers - I'm more than a bit supprised to see 2 CLAIMED ones right now (though only one that has shown actual product to anyone reputable, and THAT product seems to be in very short supply).


ASIC for ETH = suicide, ETH moving to POS will kill that market too soon.

Asic builders have caused this due to self mining tactics and refusal to sell chips to developers look at market cap

https://coinmarketcap.com/

market cap

1   Bitcoin                  $ 6,901,475,213   $ 443.42   15,564,300 BTC   $ 96,974,200   -1.38 %   
2   Ethereum              $ 1,192,892,754   $ 14.87   80,206,333 ETH   $ 53,473,400   5.28 %

all coins from rank 3 to 10 add to   about 540 million



The tactic to fight asic miners will be   a gpu card like ETH

I loved my S3's at the time they were tanks.   Truly was a great miner.   So I can see why some want a miner in this area, espically if in a home setting.  But now that I have a mining area I have to admit I like the big miners like the S7.

I could be in the few but I would rather have cheaper cost with big hashing speed.   I am more worried about cost then power needed to run.

If you make them at least  4TH at 500w.. then you will sell more then 1000..   

LOL let's be realistic here bros.

That's doable. 500W wall, 90% PSU, 30W for fan and controller and 95% VRM gives 0.1J/GH chip-level. Two boards of 24 bitfury chips would hit that easily.

I am keeping space in the solar array for 3kwatts of some thing new at .15 watts or lower

I wish they would send you chips.. :S.

200-400W is not the issue, if you want one of those run a single board S7 and sell on the other two boards. The issue is how efficient is it, and will it have a long enough life to make some money?


Rich

Ive all ways wanted lower cost never really worried about the power cost if they had priced the s7 right i would have bought a few .my S5 paid half the power bill in the house and did Roi in no time but i didn't even notice till a friend ask one day was it worth it.( but Ive said that before )shows how much i care about Roi , i didn't even notice having to much fun just mining and covering cost, i was happy till the s7 .was so hoping the S7 was gonna be better or be more home minded .


I wouldn't under volt under clock one if i had one because i would use what i pay for . id keep it at defaults.

 Less on a couple of my ETH systems - though not by a lot.

 If AMD made a 754-based CPU on a semi-current process I could probably drop the 190ish watts my pair of 7870 single-card Semperon 3000+ systems and the 170ish the 7850/Semperon 3000 systam is using by 30+ watts each.

 On the other hand - existing hardware, ZERO out of pocket for the most part (I did buy ONE HD 7870 locally for $80, but I figure it'll make THAT back by the time that system becomes unprofitable - and if it misses by a bit, no big deal it turns into a very cheap serious RC5-72 cruncher system).


 Unless someone (Bitfury-based most likely) gets a 14/16nm custom-gen Bitmine miner out before the halfing, it's looking very iffy on my returning to Bitcoin mining at all this year - though I'm going to have to do some serious number crunching when the A4 shows up before I decide.


 As much as I'd like to see a sub-$400 Bitcoin miner show up in that generation, I'm betting it doesn't happen this year IF at all. Takes about as much time and effort to design a small miner, the infrastructure costs on it are HIGHER per MH, making it that much harder to achieve ROI on it - and I suspect the market for such a "small" miner isn't all that big.
There's a REASON Bitmain has never bothered releasing a BM1385-based "U-series" miner design, much less an "R1" upgrade to the next-gen chip.

I would like to dedicate a miner at ck's solo pool  maybe 200 watts that does  1.4th.

So yeah a lower power miner works.  But right now I do have a lower powered miner it is an eth coin miner.

So I will see what new btc gear comes out and for now mine with my eth coin rigs in my house.

Seems the best option at this point, it makes sense to mine ETH while it is profitable, though.

Jacob

Just don't spend a ton building ETH rigs from new parts, it is very iffy if you'll manage to ROI if you try that at this point.

 (Unless, like me, you were planning to build the rigs anyway for other usage and are just mining ETH short-term with them to help defray part of the cost).

Yeah I had parts for 4 rigs  other then a lot of gpus.


So my 500 watt miners are my 2 card pc's


 http://www.ethpool.org/miners/3ef297e47404a771139472b93621f82c8a832857

And my entire setup was about 4k  due to all the parts I had on hand.

If you went from start  it would be more like 5.5k

I like how quickly the "build rigs for home miners please" thread shifted to "just give up and mine altcoins instead".

yeah  well  this is what people did  to mine since no asic builder was willing to sell it to them.

No chips for a guy like you ..  No lower watt miner. prebuilt  nothing of note for more then 18 months.


The demand for a lower power miner was ignored .

Right, but the solution to "I want a 400W bitcoin miner" isn't "mine something that's not bitcoin instead", assuming the goal is to mine bitcoins. And I don't accept "mine altcoins and trade them for bitcoins" as a valid answer because, for the most part, any given altcoin exists as a flash in the pan and every dollar made from one came from someone losing that dollar when the brief and entirely expected bust is over. Ethereum might actually stick around, but for every coin that lasts there are what, 200 that briefly spike, make profits for the cheaters with exceptionally good timing, and then go under?

I might have to take some time and read up on ethereum, but nothing's yet convinced me to like proof-of-stake and a couple other things I've heard.

But I do like the idea of a sub-500W miner like what we used to have before the industrial circlejerks took over.

you should read about it, they are pushing it hard it maybe here for ever or till whatever im building a 2 card rig that can handle 6 which I'll take it to, parts should be here next week i'll mine other coins if eth takes a big dump.
 and still hope you get chips or some one.....

The ASIC producers went to where the money is. That's capitalism, and the home/low-budget miners don't have enough capital.

That said, based on my experience with the Compac stick miner, if sidekick manages to get his hands on enough new generation chips to produce a batch of sub-500 watt miners, I'd be interested in one.

Cheers,

- zed

So would half the people that read the hardware threads.  I am sure something will pop up, at least I hope so.

It's all a shell game.  I think ethereum is legit and has a purpose but from what I understand it is a platform to collaborate not really a currency.  The ethereum is meant to be the means of paying each other within the platform then the individuals could exchange into what ever had value to them. I'm not sure if i'll ever have a use for it, but when I read into it I thought to myself, this was kind of what sidehack was asking for when he put a call out for some coding help his proto type miners.  I believe the platform was meant for software developement and actually crowd fund in the same place.  I'm sure there is more to it, but I doubt it could survive without bitcoin, since that was the main way to obtain eth, before it was minable and bitcoin is what gives it value today.  If it does make the switch to proof of stake and become unminable next year it may stand on its own, but then its real value will be within the platform itself and to those who use it.  Kind of like how we hobby miners either, hold bitcoin as investment, reinvest bitcoin into hardware, buy things with bitcoin, or exchange bitcoin ino another currency to pay bills.

Back on topic, I sure would like some low power miners, because I don't have spare 220 lines laying around to launch a multiple S7s, but I do have lots of circuits to throw a 500 watt miner on around and connect to wifi or hard wire via usb lines to computer.

Given folks have built their own miners from ASIC from major manufacturers, it could be that Bitfury and Bitmain are planning to leave that "small market" to the "small fry manufacturers" in the future.

or don't build the rig for etheruem only? build it for the future altcoin mining, like i've said etheruem is not the end of mining

it's just the beginning like doge litecoin and all the other with big profit


apart from this...i would love a small miner, with a small wattage like 500max, just to mine bitcoin directly, but they would charge for it much more in comparison with the big perhaps at the launch....

Yeah I know pcs can mine other coins.

They can have long warranties 1 or more years.

I have five built at the moment .

I almost paid two of them off.
I could sell one. At a discount. This would get me closer to r.o.i.

200-400 watt miner would be nice.

i have around a 1200 watt "budget" for summer mining, and i prefer to spread it out. currently 5 compacs lotto mining, and a few gpus on eth. that leaves around 400-500 watts that im reserving for sidehack projects.

BTW - that "S7 lite" thing Bitmain came out came fairly close to your demand.
Bit more power usage than the S5, but not all that different - I could have swapped it in place one-for-one with my S5s easy enough, though what I'd do with those Enermax PS it comes with I have no clue - I'd have prefered it NOT have a power supply and LOSE the cost and shipping weight of those things.

Still a lot of power I would much rather on the 200 watt end. So 700 is pretty hefty.

There is nothing current gen that fit that description. You'd have to undervolt S7 blades and custom cool it.

I would like to see something quiet... It may use 1kW or so but let it be QUIET!

EACH BOARD of an S7 (or S9 now) eats close to 500 watts.

 The probability of Bitmain making a 400W or less miner at this point is .... I won't say zero, they could in theory do a long-overdue update to the U3 - but essentially zero.

 Just isn't worth it to them to re-engineer their boards to cut them down to 2 strings just for a few folks that want a small miner.


 In theory, they COULD put out a 1-board "quietish" miner - but I dunno if THAT would be worth it to them.


 1KW is NOT going to be quiet, that's a LOT of heat to dissipate.



 3'd party folks are another story - if any of the manufacturers will actually get a significant number of chips sold to a non-hugh-farm type operation.