Bitcoin Forum

I am seriously disgusted with anyone that thought the price was just going to go up and up. I believe in Bitcoin but what I've seen in recent weeks is selfishness on a level I didn't expect. I saw the price soar from 10.00 to 30.00 within a week and regretted every dollar it gained because I knew that when I glanced at this page https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade almost no businesses had been added. Are you fucking serious? Bitcoin's STABILITY is built on enterprise, NOT popularity, forget miners, they are a CONSTANT. Why people compare miners and price, or price and difficulty is anyone's guess. Popularity is the bane of the free market and everyone jumped for it, hook, line, and sinker. The only thing that matters is economy growth, y'know business, people trading, mom and pop stores, niche markets, fuck, even newspaper sellers, if there is no adoption of Bitcoin as a trusted currency by those businesses that are willing to give it a shot. Bitcoin. Is. Dead. Speculators need to grow up. Enthusiasts need to grow up.

I think you all need to take a good hard look at yourselves and ask yourself, what does Bitcoin mean to me.

Selfishness? Money is a selfish game, pal. I don't think you know how people work

Well, get off your high horse and go start an enterprise. Holy shit.

Sure is Keynesian in here.

I think you need to take a good look at yourself and realize how much of a hypocritical self-righteous moron you are.

Hyperbole much? I agree that bitcoin needs to stop being the investor's plaything, but the events thus far are still not out of the ordinatry based on past exchange performance. Hopefully investors will realise bitcoin isn't the "sure thing" people thought it was, and start to develop some interesting stuff.

As I saw people openly admitting they were dropping their life saving into Bitcoin my stomach dropped. Kindly and sincerely sir I am a poor student and can't help these people, but I guess the same could be said of yourself, these forums over the last year have been a pirranah pit of "it will hit $100 in no time", "sell, sell, sell,", "buy NOW!", "oh it goes up and down all the time" ... but I see very few, if anyone actually wanting to drive Bitcoin from commodity to currency, because, c'mon don't kid yourselves, commodity is numbers for numbers, curency is goods/services for numbers. Ask yourself, when did you stop looking at MtGox or bitcoinwatch.com and at the trader page to REALLY see where Bitcoin was heading.

I see nothing wrong with it. Bitcoin is a competing store of value and its far better than the centrally-controlled crap that's out there. Let it be traded exclusively as a commodity. When people are ready to use it for serious commerce, they will.

Jesus freakin Christ... is every other thread here started by a troll? Seriously.

Gov't unleashed their lapdog/trolls, i guess.
overpaid agents/pr in action.

Why?  Because some people have differing opinions than you?

Life is a fucking Troll, when you have that attitude...but we all love you deeply, so on your behalf I'll make a PSA:

"Alright everyone! Let's stop having differing opinions about bitcoin because SOMEONE HERE *wink wink* thinks we should all be completely enamored with it and talk about nothing but how great it is and will make us all rich!  TOO GOOD TO FAIL. TOO GOOD TO FAIL, EVERYONE."

Grow up.

*Lights cigar with 50$ bill*

I speculate that I'll not be going anywhere soon....

Trust me.  There are many people who are actively working on building bitcoin businesses that have nothing to do with speculation.

My partners and I, for example, are employing 12 programmers and designers to bring our next project to market before mid July.  We have other projects in the oven, as well, that are actively being developed by a completely different set of programmers.

Our goal is to increase the utility of bitcoin...

I'm working with others whom the Bitcoin veterans would recognize.  If you're *already* working on something, and would like to explore working on something with us, please contact me.

If you only have ideas, but wouldn't follow through on your own, please do NOT contact me -- I do not want to work with you.  If you've got something in the works and think your contribution might complement ours, or that we might be able to use our resources to bring something (that you're already working on) to market faster, please contact me.

And oh great gods of Valhalla what delicious, delicious government over-payments they are. Right now my Gubmint over-payments are outpacing my BTC mining by a wide margin, so I guess you could say I just have a diversified portfolio!

+1

I bought some initially as a speculative investment a month ago. I'm planning on buying a steady amount over time for investment. I'm planning on buying an increasing amount over time to spend as the opportunity arises.

I just posted my site on the wiki page https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Other

This is completely boring. Anyway, here's the reason why bitcoin isn't a bubble (http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles/exploring-the-bitcoin-bubble-from-february-to-now), followed by a bitcoin bubble comic which illustrate the bitcoin bubble siren song (http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles/comic-reaction-after-dramatic-rise-of-bitcoin-s-value) that been going on since the beginning of the currency.

Anyway, it's normal for the price of bitcoin to decline 30% or even more overnight, just as it is normal for bitcoin to jump 30% or more overnight.

Good day.

Speculators didn't bail. Speculators are the ones that are sitting now with their 100$ asks.

It was only a very few bigholders who sold about 10k~20k of bitcoins, causing a price drop of 40% with a 10% bounce back. This market is super weak if you think about it.

These bigholders are the early guys who got tons of bitcoins and not wanting to lose this chance of becoming rich. Imagine being the last to sell bitcoins and you bought at 0,50$, having had this huge chance to make triple digits returns.

Backed up with proof: http://blockexplorer.com/address/1ER9ptGkdWSNeWY3pvbvNhNZS8ie5qEj2K

I'm a small business owner myself (programming/design/hosting), and I considered accepting bitcoins for services.  I no longer consider it a viable option in the least.

Why?

Because for all the ephemeral philosophical jesting about decentralized money and how we're all paving the way to a grand and glorious future of Utopic, regulation free financial anarchy, the fact is it makes ZERO business sense to accept bitcoins.

It's a fools errand to accept a form of currency that can render your services a very expensive favor.

I currently charge a base rate of $162/hr. with additional compensation based on project scope. If I began accepting bitcoins and doing even a fraction of business in them (say 10%), then month to month my actual income could have such a wide variance as to make my life a living hell of watching market tickers and having to waste my time day trading to ensure I got fair compensation for my work.

As far as any real and profitable businesses are concerned, accepting bitcoin is an idiotic proposal, UNLESS the owner of that business is merely speculating on future returns.

My bet is that businesses aren't going to gamble with their profits on the feel good nature of crypto-currency's war on the evil fiats of the world...

Paypal fees aren't that bad...hell, neither are credit card fees, really.  Certainly not when compared with BTC lol.

"Paypal without the fees!"

HAHAHA...

Do t-shirts count as serious commerce? :D

If you don't want to stay in the bitcoin economy, that's fine.

Oh I'm very happy to stay in the bitcoin economy.  I'm minting free money on the hopes and dreams of amateur investors with the computer sitting next to me, after all...

This forums is not bitcoin central 'government' lol, Bitcoin is not decentralized if you are whining about the availability of goods and services under bitcoin in this forum it done no good other than ridiculed, if you support bitcoin concept and has something and even power and will to make slight changes do it, act on it don't just whining, perhaps before invest on anything you should at-least analysis on your targeted investment.

Seriously this is just your mind tricking you, if you expect btc always in the same parity as the $, you should read the bitcoin paper again, it would be never happened.

Wait, you mean this is a zero sum game? Oh that's right, because bitcoins don't actually create wealth. They simply help enable the redistribution of wealth.

Like poker :D

Yeah, that is why I called one of them out directly.

I don't mind contrary well-constructed arguments or viewpoints, but I *do* mind posts that are designed to provoke reactions. It is ridiculously easy to discern between the two. I'd support a forum sub-section called "Drama" - and have the threads shuttled over there for all the "free speech" people to hash it out, but for me, I'd rather not see it in the main discussion forum.

This is why we need stability.

I don't see stability happening yet, not for quite some time in fact, but before bitcoin can really be taken seriously as a currency stability is going to need to be reached.  Or at least an easily predictable rate of change.

Don't price in dollars then.

This is truly hyperbolic.

I lost $80 trading in the middle of traffic.

I had $250 worth around BTC = $18. I had a buyer at $20. I had a seller at $17.5. I opened up the two trades. I sold at $20. The $17.50 one disappeared. No scam. Just took off. I bought at $23 to complete the sale. I was left with $170 worth.

Later, I gave out loans and wasn't able to make the hypothetical trades everyone here is using to support their pet theories, I'd lost from $170 worth down to $100. As well as some due to lending out to someone with a high rating that ended doing something stupid and scamming lots of people. And I actually think he'll pay me eventually.

But we're only going to include the market risk.

The difference for the first loss was $5.5 per BTC higher than $17.50. And it cost me $80 due to the missed connection. Yesterday's drop was $7.5 per BTC down from $17.5 and it cost me $70.

I lost more from it going up and trading in traffic per dollar, $80 / $5.5 = $14.4 per $1 rise, versus lending and having a business on the market, $70 / $7.50 = $9.1 per $1 drop.

I lost 50% more for it going up.

Precisely. BTC are not a synonym for dollars. Price in BTC and stick to it. I am doing so with loans I put out.

I for one am creating a service around bitcoin right now :) I do agree that over-fixation on the price is not good, as it detracts attention from creating services that use it.

One negative side-effect from the rapid rise in its market value is that it brings out the critics, the type of people who get paranoid when any thing is increasing in value and any one is making money. They spread misconceptions like "it's a ponzi scheme!" when they don't understand the technology. I think it's important to publicly challenge and deconstruct these misconceptions as they are raised, so that as bitcoin becomes more well-known, people who come to learn about it are not dissuaded from getting involved because of these misconceptions and don't miss out on the enormous potential that bitcoin has.

hell yes

Companies attempt to turn a profit, which is why they operate. If they can't reliably turn a profit in btc due to it's volatility, no one will use it.

I wasn't talking about stability vs the dollar, or any other fiat currency.  I was talking about stability vs the price of goods in bit coins.  If a merchant has to change his prices daily that is an extra piece of work that is not necessary for other currencies.  If the merchant doesn't know if a bitcoin is going to buy more or less tomorrow than it does today then he is going to have to convert it to a more stable currency and that is another piece of work that is not needed when operating in a different currency.

We have a word for that. It's called being naive. But it's good lesson in life for you. The human is selfish. Any construct that doesn't take advantage of that concept is doomed to fail.