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I think Ethereum will be no more among us after this attack, the issues to it will be fixed sooner but i don't think that it will survive for longer , it will die in this year.

Vitalik Buterin did the mistake of his life by pannicking about people panic selling and demanding that exchanges froze the ETH markets... I mean what the FUCK? Think about this for a moment. This is terrible and sets a scary precedent. This would never happen with BTC because everyone knows it would be a disaster.

Further there is no one who could demand this there is no Lenin with his minions following him

Damn right ..Well said !

I also have agreed when similar things happened to other shit coins before.
So i am not agreeing just because i don't like ETH or something.
He REALLY did fuck up and make a2nd massive problem on top of the first (the hack)

It may have limped along after but not after Butterin fucking it up like that..

what an idiot  :D

but that is centralized (not a currency) ICO scam "coin" for profit DAPPS platform leader for ya LOL

Note a REAL decentralized currency would not have a leader even able to fuck with it like that int he first place.

Moral of the story ?
..wait for it..

here it comes..

"i wuz hacked"


aha ha hahahahhahahhahah ahhahahahahahhahahha

Wasn't there a bitcoin snafu where it went to 1c briefly because there was a major code problem in early days, like 2011 or 2012?

Bitcoin was the first of it's kind.  There wasn't any alternatives people who now would naturally go to, and in theory killing off eth. 
Different times. Reversing transaction due to badly written code is what they are currently proposing.  All principles go out the window and eth will be tarnished forever.

You THINK!?!

Lol, you can eb 10000% sure ! Vitalk scammer and his minions become millionaires thanks to idiots buying this ETH scam.

ETH --> finished ! DONE.

If you are smart and want to remain in crypto, move your shitcoins into LTC or BTC, or cash out and dont ever turn back.

ETH--> FINISHED.

I agree with this thinking . ETH is basically done.

I think it's indeed a hard blow for Ethereum.

Ethereum's "USP" is their Turing-complete smart contract platform. You can basically do all things with the scripting language that you can do also with another programming language.

On the other hand, if you sign a contract, you should understand what you are signing.

But that's the problem. Turing-complete programs can be very complex. Not anybody - in fact, very few people, mostly "techies" - understands Turing complete code and its implications.

Now you have a contract - a "DAO" - that attracted thousands of little investors, most of them having no clue about what the code did and what its security implications were. And the security _was_ violated. That _will_ happen again.

I can imagine Ethereum now only as a platform "from nerds for nerds". At least, for any investor in a Ethereum-based DAO, expert analysis of the code would be an absolute must. So its hard to imagine an adoption of the Ethereum platform by small and medium businesses and, much less so, by the average Joe.

So it may actually not be "dead", but reduced to a absolute niche platform.

I am running a polling thread on this opportunity for eth coin to soar or crash and burn.

please post on it.

haters and lovers of eth coin are welcome.

In my opinion don't expect high in altcoin like ethereum they are the same as other altcoin.. why they are making new currency and sell it when its release in trading sites? honestly in the first time if what other altcoin do after pump and dump they are also doing it.. they are just making more money with there project.. remember DAO i heard that this project already hack thats why the price is crash.
What do you think guys why they are starting making new altcoin day by day i saw many new altcoin in altcoin anouncement.. they are just lying in there promises even the name of the coin is nonesense they are pumping the price to attract people to sold it..
Honestly those altcoin are useless no use.. we are already have legit coin and oldcoin in market places they are already live long.. like cbx litecoin dogecoin..
why they are still making new one.?

-15 % an hour ago..

$ 14.67 (-25.87 %)

nuff said..

JK:

ETH is fucked ..GAME OVER !

https://twitter.com/kristovatlas/status/743855063597121536

Almost 2 years ago exactly, Vericoin (VRC) forked to recover stolen funds
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-protected-vericoin-stolen-mintpal-wallet-breach/

VRC chart since:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClK0O4wVEAAkcMV.jpg:large

Yeah and the biggest joke of it all is it was not even a proper hack cause the "hacker" used the code of the DAO smart contract to get the money, so he deserves the money, but mad Vitalik wants to steal it with a hardfork, what a mess!

Glad I was all in on BTC.

Ethereum will continue to slowly bleed out over next 26 days until the "stolen" ETH is available to be spent. The big bleedout will occur when one of two things happen:

1. Ethereum forks, either soft or hard, both would be disastrous to the long term viability of ETH. It would be a very dangerous precedent to set.
2. No action taken, the "stolen" funds become spendable and the attacker dumps them all on the market, because who the hell wants to sit on several million dollars worth of funny money?

Either scenario would involve a mass dump return and Ethereum back to sane pricing. Over 1 billion market cap for an unproven system was always unsustainable - this just hastened things along. I would not be surprised to see it go under $1 or $2 after all this is said and done. I worry what the community will do, since this situation is very similar to what happened with NXT, even though no fork was issued there, the community was split down the middle and the coin never recovered.

Time will tell. Ethereum still has a long term chance if they do not fork, and the community does not divide itself, though it will take a long time to recover from this market shock. Very unfortunate situation for all involved, but maintaining fungibility should take priority over everything else.

Why do they fail if they fork?

Seems to me the fanboys who buy anything that sounds good, don't really care about whether it is decentralized, because we were writing for months in the Ethereum Paradox thread that Casper would be moving it towards centralization. They only believe what they want to believe.

So why would recovering the funds for the fanboys be worse than not from the perspective of sustaining Ethereum?

They can state that the rules weren't well elucidated and that in the future, all users must understand that contracts are not warranted to perform as advertised.

Tual has potentially a big problem if they didn't do adequate disclosure. This can end up in lawsuits and he can end up prosecuted under securities regulations. If they did make very clear and conspicuous disclosure about risks, then they definitely shouldn't fork because no one will ever again know what the rules are (as they will be open to change at-will).

Yes and this is consistently overlooked by Spoetniktards.

All about fungibility and centralization. It sucks, and I don't think anyone could honestly argue that the attacker deserves the coins, but intervening would be disastrous to the long term prospects of ETH. There's plenty of precedent to suggest that intervention like this would be a death sentence. The "fanboys" wouldn't care, but as far as long term adoption and all that goes, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. Those in it for the quick money are no doubt pissed off, but anyone in it for the long haul should be staunchly against a fork.

I think the "attacker" deserves the funds, because and assuming he did nothing illegal (but I am not even sure if he didn't violate some obscure law). But we are discussing about perceptions of what the risks are. Please re-read my prior post as I added to it. For me, it hinges on whether they had adequately explained/disclosed the risks to the DAO and ETH investors. I suspect not (otherwise why $168m invested[1]). Thus I argue they can fork and then make the conspicuous and repeated disclosure so that it is clear they will be consistent from here on. And they pretty much have to fork in that case, else they throw themselves under the legal liability bus (but due to the decline in the ETH price they are fucked legally no matter what they do). As for the threats of lawsuits from the "attacker", these can be ignored because they can claim that the majority has the Byzantine power to fork and everyone who uses CC knows that.

Or they can take the stance that all CC investors should know the risks and that they are the owners, because it is decentralized. In that case, they shouldn't fork, but I think they will lose this argument in court perhaps. The DAO investors can file a class action lawsuit for example (which btw supercedes every international jurisdiction!) and claim to be n00bs who trusted Vitalik and Tual their idols.

I believe this clusterfuck is going to lead to securities regulation of CC.  :'(

Vitalik is growing up very fast I think right about now.


[1] Where are the statements about how participants could lose everything if there is a bug? They should have scared away some of the money. I read 18,000 investors for $168 million, so several $1000s each.

Not the same at all. BTC had a PROTOCOL problem, and BTC was tiny back then, no one even cared. ETH problem is just money being "stolen" (not really since "hacker" just used the contract's code), and marketcap is on the millions of dollars.
When was the last time satoshi told exchanges to freeze all funds? Get real, ETH is fucked, BTC as solid as ever.

If the "attacker" offers to give back majority of the coins back, and he keeps a very small amount, I will oppose the fork.

So you might as well fork then, because this means for those future attackers that don't comply, you will support a fork. So if you represent the decision of majority hash rate, then no one can trust Ethereum to not 51% attack itself to fork the protocol.

So the miners having 51% mining power can decide the fork or any code any way. There is no moral hazard. There is no argument at all. You just need to convince the majority of the miners.

It has dropped to $11's again. Yes, I also think that ethereum is dead, but this is not a good news even for those that have always rejected this altcoin, because this will become a great reference for uncertainty and fragility on this relatively new digital economy.

51% attack taking control of the protocol is not a hazard  ???

They could decide to increase the number of coins issued, install the ChainAnchor KYC on all transactions, etc..

you sir do not understand why eth coin has value and will survive this.   Eth coin still mines at a profit and is the cheapest way to mine BTC via simple sell  your mined eth for btc.

please  sir remember that intel, nvidia ,amd all desktop mining industry wants a good gpu mined coin that allows for discounts on your gaming gear.


The only thing I would concede is any gpu coin that turns a mining profit works for the above major companies so if a gpu coin comes out that is better then eth so be it miners will switch.

Is GPU mining the main reason that ETH has more value than Monero (which is more CPU mining friendly)  ???

I think its impossible right now ethereum will recover their loses.. the price of ethereum still reducing and more investors are selling their ethereum.. because of dao issue.. If there's a new update from ethereum that they will  fix the problem about the hacking issue.. maybe its the best to buy ethereum right now.. we will wait for new update.. and i think we have a chance again to make a profit with ether...

First time I read about this! Freezing markets happened after the 9/11. It seems a bit excessive to freeze markets for something this unimportant!

A fork takes away all trust. Satoshi's assumption is that miners are rational, so they won't do things that hurt them. If miners can fork for this, they can also do it to take funds from someone else.

Holy cow, almost every altcoin has a chart like that, it means nothing...

Yes, but the key difference is the tinning(immediately after) and the degree of immediate drop off which is unique.

It is very naive to assume there is no correlation , especially when Vericoin users themselves expressed many grievances by this rollback.

I agree with the mean about the attack, now, we should wait the team to fix the problem about the hacking issue, this will be a best chance to buy ETH. now,i will use BTC to buy some ETH.

No matter outcome Ethereum is dead. If they fork, the smart contracts are worthless, if they don't the hacker owns enough coins to destroy the coin. GG, no re.

Well the price is 0.015 at Yobit, which is what, $11.25?  That's not bad.  True, it's dropped from 0.028 but it's not dead by a long shot.  I'm watching it for entertainment though.

What can't die, must live.

Ethereum's platform has done nothing wrong. It is the issule of the DAO's codes. Traders are not thinking rationally.

Exactly. its not ETH's fault. It shoulld be an easy money for you if you buy more ETH this time. it has proven to be a great system and will be back sooner.
its cheaper now so it must be a good time to buy.

They were not thinking rationally when they bought into the USELESS scam coin in the first place.
And seeing some of them cash out & run is the first sign of intelligence i have seen around here in ages.
..you all gettin' smart on me ?  :o

Done handing this scrawny little mETH head MILLIONS in YOUR Money ?

http://i63.tinypic.com/29maukl.jpg

Oh yes, the Ethereum foundation had absolutely nothing to do with the Dao.  :D This was Stephan Tual's baby, and he was the former CCO of the Ethereum Foundation. And look at who all the curators (https://daohub.org/curator.html) are. Yeah, the Ethereum foundation had nothing to do with creating this Frankentoken.  ::)
Wonder who benefited when ETH reached it's all time high, while people were buying up ETH to get involved in this new and exciting experiment?

Ethereum will not be finished, because people are greedy, stupid and gullible. What most people don't get it that ETH was already in a bubble before all this happened. I know for sure I am not touching ETH again. And not because of the technology, but because the people behind it seam to think they can get away with anything and that the purpose of the whole thing is to make Vitalik and Co billionaires.

honestly, vitalik does not stirke me as someone who is in it to get billionaire or scammer. He seems like a geeky guy. Now fellas like Stephan Tual, they do look sleazy as fuck though.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClToCImUgAAsRzi.jpg


Another attack occurring?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/4ot3vi/warning_another_successful_attack_recursive_split/

Finished ? LOL

Duh..

The Ethereum could be much better after this attack if it recovers well and attracts more talented coders to work for it.

Market is trying to recover https://www.coingecko.com/en/price_charts/ethereum/usd

i think that is because bitcoin started growing, because of that ethereum is growing too so i think we might see a recover to the near price it was pretty soon most probably

i think ethereum wont be finished any time soon thus people will start buying it once again and pumping the price up, everything depends on the people only who want to hold

NO.. because there has been LOTS of previous hacks and none of them ever turned out better for it.

Try some reality some time.. it's a nice change of pace Shill.

AKA: DUH  :D

I did not realise it had many attacks before. So it has survived the previous attacks. It could survive this one as well.

no, you are wrong etheruem against bitcoin is always bad 0.015, etheruem is recovering against usd tnx to bitcoin, completely different

Somebody here actually understands PoW = miners are a "decentralized authority".

Ethereum miners have started voting in some pools on the "soft fork"...
The "soft fork" simply freezes all ETH transfers from the DAO contract (rendering the current "attacks" unprofitable)...
And there are roughly another 25 days left for miners to simply set a flag that locks up the DAO.

Ethpool is voting 99.4% in favor of a "soft fork" here:

http://ethpool.org/stats/votes

Looking at these numbers...
It's very likely miners will subsequently vote in a "hard fork" that will destroy the DAO... and return all ETH to investors.

Ethereum will not suffer from the same paralysis Bitcoin did post-Gox... and still does.

All the FUD you hear about "crypto purity" is from Bitcoin Maximalist Trolls...
Miners acting as a "decentralized authority" on ANY issue is at the heart of PoW.

I just voted Yes with 1800 MH/s. I do not have DAO, but in principle, I do not like the theft of other people's money.

Yes, the eth may be returned, but will the gesture ever be forgotten? Will the confidence in the system (and how easily it can be manipulated, apparently) ever be restored? Like you have said with Gox, no I don't believe so. But consider this: bitcoin had been around for quite some time with a much more active user base, and it's taken this long to shake off the shadow of Gox. How long will it take Ethereum, something so new and untried?

It is not so easy as they think. It requires the consensus from all the miners and service providers to reverse the transactions.

The attack wasn't on ETH. ETH will survive just as BTC survived it's attacks. Nothing much to see here.

Haha, eth is doomed.  With or without a fork, either way Eth got hosed.

http://imgur.com/MBlS7Wr (http://imgur.com/MBlS7Wr)

A hard fork also gives an opportunity for those who disagree with intervention on behalf of a TBTF entity to remain on what they consider the untampered side.

Perhaps this side will also stick with PoW while the bailed out side switches to PoS.

Breaking the promised rules of Ethereum to "make whole" reckless speculators who piled into a very risky/now failed asset is making a bad situation, worse. 

I'm optimistic about Ethereum. I think it won't be finished.

Exactly. At least Ethereum has a united supportive community and dev base. Unlike BTC. Which only rose revelry due to pure speculation on the halvening. Expect it to crash soon after as the centralised Chinese miners (how many are there now, like 2?) crash the market.

I invite all ETH miners and users to begin using Emercoin. It will be switching to merged mining with BTC as well.

On balance, I've decided not to dump my Ether holdings since I think the project will probably survive this.

I'm basically anti-fork because for me that violates one of the core principles of smart contracts, but all the same it's a pretty incredible piece of technology if you've ever tried messing around with Solidity - fork or no fork.

There is one reason above all else for holding though: If Ethereum gets through this it will have survived a massive battering, meanwhile all other smart contract blockchains will have it all in front of them. Rights of passage phase is of huge value and I really don't see the work that's gone on in this project being reproduced too soon.

The real buck stops with investors in the DAO. They should loose their funds, end of story.

One of the reasons that this is such a huge clusterfuck is that the DAO was massively overvalued. People invested in an untested peice of solidity code - nothing else. The DAO had no other assets. It didn't own shares in any going concerns, had no money, no staff, no premises and no work in progress. The slightest bit of due diligence would tell you that thats a high risk investment that's worth a small premium over hot air.

Also, whatever lessons are to be learned about valuing DACs, the system worked. The losses are confined to the DAO and need to stay there IMO. Let the chips fall where they may.

It's still an exciting development environment that is unique and powerful so I think I'll probably hang onto my coins regardless of their exchange rate. (In fact I might pick up a few more cos that what Warren Buffet would do at this point ;) )

I'm with you and thanks for putting it more eloquently than I ever could. I invested in DAO and agree that it should cut its loses for now. I still believe in a DAO and all that it will stand for, basically giving the little man the opportunity to invest whee only VC funds could in the past. Why others are so virulently against this right is beyond me. One day I expect after all this is blown over there will be a DAO2.0. Just with better coders.

Sorry about your disappointment - didn't intend to sound mean, but I think objectively one needs to look at the mechanics of the thing above all else.

Also, I don't know if better coding is the answer ultimately. Things need to progress on the basis that smart contract code will fail, not that it won't. There are a huge amount of use cases where the value doesn't actually have to be held by the contract. The world is currently running on software code. That code is failing left right and centre, yet it doesn't cause catastrophic losses.

I think the answer lies in using software as it's always been used - for automating tedious logic in a way that if it fails it simply means things need to be done by hand instead, not that it changes outcomes catastrophically. That means a sensible mix of redundant automation and human intervention. Either of those could have prevented the DAO catastrophe.

Evolution of blockchains is one thing but smart contracts are where rocket technology was in the 1940's. There's gonna be a few 180's at 500 feet before they get into orbit on a regular basis  ;)

toknormal, very astute. That is indeed part of the solution.

Minecache, the problem with The DAO is not only bad code, but also the design was game theory broken as well.

Hello Anonymint.

I see you're back.

I agree and it needs to be fixed/amended for a DAO2.0. It's likely the DAO is currently too ahead of its time but I believe it will come. We only learn from our mistakes and successes. It doesn't mean that running the race was wrong. All technological advances suffer this from inception. It was naive to think otherwise.

No there is a mass market for it right now, but those Ethereum guys (including Vitalik's blogs about it) have the design entirely wrong conceptually. They are off in the entirely wrong direction conceptually. And that includes Devest and any one else copying The DAO's conceptual design. And I am not going to tell you how to do correctly until I have some code ready to launch.

No sorry I don't think the mass market is there right now. Just look at how many, supposed crypto currency supporters just hate on the DAO and are happy to see it fail just because they can't comprehend it. This is internet 1993. "Why do we need this?" It needs to be sold to the doubters before mass market appears. I.e. There were only circa 20,000+ DAO investors in total. And I knew 3 of them.

I think this issue only highlights the fragility of this virtual economy, because there will always be a shrewd man capable of infringing the strongest cryptography. 

Let's face it: Virtual economy is just a utopia that never will be 100% reliable and secure, and these risks will remain forever.

Sorry for this frank afront, but you apparently lack technical understanding and I am faulting you for willingly trying to promulgate FUD. Please don't promulgate lies. Do you understand the math and computer science?

The fragility was because Vitalik ignored all of us who told him not to release Turing-complete block chain scripting willynilly into the wild.

DAO raised ~$150M! WTF is wrong with you people?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518924.0

The problem is the way of, and the design of what you are, marketing. I will show you how to do it.

Specifically marketing a delusion broken design to n00bs, instead of marketing a seriously beneficial product to those who can use it for revolutionizing corporations.

Based on the sophistication of the problems/hacks of Ethereum, I don't think it will ever come back!
Even if this attack is solved, there will be peopl ethat will have already "dumped" their ethereum for a better coin that is more stable and less volatile or prone to these attacks!

Playing the failed "community" card  :D

Ok for one thing you are WRONG.

As i said during the height of Doge Coin's popularity..
Your so called community is a facade.. AND YOU KNOW IT (more deceitful commentary from you)

Just like Doge coin's so called "Community" it is made up of greedy profiteers
who planned from the start to dump it for profit & run when they think it's time.
Ethereum is in no way different.. actually worse because it was never intended to be a "CURRENCY"
as as some tried to make out Doge coin to be.

Further more..
The leader of the Doge coin "community" announced he was abandoning the coin..
Because of what he said was a "Lack of community support" !

YOU ..are once again competently and utterly full of fucking shit mETH head ShillTard.

AND..

The only thing in short supply with Ethereum ..is "THE SUPPLY"  :D
How many are there going to be now ? ;)

Hey NOOBcache, say more dumb shit so i can ride your ass like a pony and laugh at you *more*

Clown  :D

---

EDIT:
I am curious do you ever get tired of me owning your ass here daily or what ?

League bitch.. LEAGUE !

Must be. Especially because you've colored and bolded your letters.

The market does not care about the color. In the market, the money talks. The price of Ethereum rose 20% in the last 24 hours.

Eth miners cannot miner Emercoin if that is SHA256 coin. The Ehtereum still has some life left at the moment.

Dude get real I don't have anything personal against ETH  but Vitalik Buterin fucked up big time after he wanted to halt all tradings to stop panic sells, this is centralization..

Ethereum will probably be fine but a lot of people will probably take a second look at other currencies besides Ethereum.

lets see what happens, feels like 2014 again haha

Ethereum will stay as long as there are plenty of investors making a lot of money from it.

The fact that any person or small group of people can make someone's Ether useless is a problem. In a truly decentralized system that's not an option because it's virtually impossible

Also people who engage in smart contracts from now on will be very skeptical that they may be subject to theft, since many people who want smart contracts aren't developers

so i see it as a problem moving forward in terms of the power a smart contract exploit can have, and also even the discussion about forking is an admission that the system is not completely decentralized

That is a kind of law enforcement in the digital world. It is still new. We need to have more exploration of that.

It was dead on arrival, not everyone could see it.

The Ethereum Foundation has some funding left. It should have enough to develop the Ethereum further.

If you've missed ETH ICO,  today is actually the best time to buy ETH for the moment they've fixed issues, you will once again missed the train.
I remember there was a thread about someone kicking himself all because he didn't invest to it back when its price were just cents.

Once the hard fork is done there will be a huge dump from the participants who get their coins back. So in the short term there will be a period of uncertainity ,in the long term I think it will be a slow death.
Ethereum's  case is different from btc's mtgox incident, now we have a code fail to prove that the whole logic behind the project is valnuerable. To me it is possible that they will need an other hf to update the language and give the developers the ability to run more tests before their code goes live.

I think that ETH will survive this DOA attack. My concern is when they go from POS to POW.

This is what you call checkmate. Game over!

the delusional and bagholders still holding on for dear life !

"fix" what is there to fix?
The problem with ethereum is not bugs or the way it was planed to work, its more concept problem, being to open and confused to use with no clear guides or plan for what it gona be used
Also bigger problem the ppl behind it wants to have 100% control, and this is crucial flow
Also mayor mistake from beginning was promoting it as BTC 2.0, ethereum should never compete with BTC! his place is corporation use and not currency decentralized concept!

Do you really think Coindesk provides absolutely unbiased news about cryptocurrencies, with no ulterior motive at all? They are about as unbiased as FOX News or MSNBC.   ::) You have much to learn about the Cryptocurrency space, newbie. (Or did you just create this sockpuppet account to try and get real noobs to help in the fight to prop up the sagging Ethereum markets.)

OK, my apologies for my misunderstanding. You're a prodigy newbie. ;)

That's correct.
You can think of your losses ....as "tuition".

That teaching tool was very expensive. The price is more than $1 billion.

Does anybody know when the proper soft fork software will come out?

What doesn't kill you only serves to make you stronger. It's time to buy more ETH.

I bought some while diversifying my portfolio investments, this is not a good time to be too confident on ETH.

But the miners are very confident in the Ethereum. Look at the network hash rate, it is another all time high.

Miners only care about what makes them $$.

That could be true. When the price of Etheruem drops to $4, and it becomes unprofit to mine, they will stop.

That happened two years ago. Miners found it was not profitalbe to mine litecoin, they sold their cards and crashed the card prices.

I think it is better to wait until the hard fork in a few weeks. If there is good community spirit, then buy some.

I heard a Chinese company bought about 1 million Etherum some time last year to support the development of Ethereum. It might support it after hard fork.

Finished. As in keeps on going and rising

Haha :D yeah. ETH will not die this year. Also, im planning to buy ETH.


Well this was a good news isn't it? especially now, the rice of ETH is continuing to rise and then some accusations will pump out that it will die. Not gonna happen


Yeah it keeps on climbing up. I think what they predicted will not happen. Let's see after the har fork on what will happen. But im confident that ETH will survive this.

deadcat bouncing.
ETH is going down, wait and see.

That could be right. The dead cat bouncing could bounce to $50 before it drops to around $30 again.

no way you are so far off. Eth has so much money and talent behind it no way it is going anywhere it may go down but im sure they have plans for it to bring it right back after

haha, by the time this "suggestion" was posted eth price was above 0.0181BTC and it went down to 0.016BTC which is only loss so far if anybody acted on it :)

https://i.imgur.com/vyadXnw.png (http://imgur.com/vyadXnw)

Now 30 days later and your prediction on price has been proven to be true. Price is now 0.01625BTC/ETH and it was 0.027BTC/ETH right before the hack.

Thats a 39.8% decline.

I expect it to fall further in the months to come. Not sure if it can ever recover by setting this precedent with the hard fork.

So you believe "they" can bring the price back higher?

I thought this was a technology project not a price project.

They are trying their best to come it back to the track , and as it has some good supporters I am looking they are getting once again to the success, but people will for a long time feel a fear of hack at there.

Ethereum has a lot of user base behind it and they as far as I know are fanatics to it. Still this is not enough, as the hack has damaged so bad eth that it has seen a 40% decline so far. I don't think it will come back to where it were but it can go up to 0.021 BTC for sure in the coming months.

In the next few weeks, if the Ethereum price does not drop below 0.01, it will rise to 0.05 in the next few months.

In either scenario I don't see that happening.

Technical price chart shows lots of weakness. Lower highs and lower lows does not instill ATH price for a long time.

More than hack there is always the possibility that a better or new project appears and that  would affect pushing  down the prices.

Remember that ethereum 'works' also if its price is 0.0162 btc  ::).....

Unfortunately the current altcoin market is only based on mere speculation, and that is why we can see these high prices on scam coins like the DAO and ethereum.  That is why I think these coins will survive for long despite their proven vulnerability.

Like BTC before it everyone keeps predicting ETHs demise. How long post-fork should we wait? Now is the best time to invest in more ETH.

I don't agree with this being a good time to invest, as the 'ETHexit' will undoubtedly mean temporarily lower prices. But I will concede that over time, it will go up. Not a bad coin, just a really, really bad look for the devs.

It's not wise to buy ether now because due the management of theDao disaster they made a lot of mistakes.... I'm not talking only about the technical ethereum but also its management.

I have more confidence in the Etheruem now than before. There is a vote for the hard fork now, it is good to take back the stolen money.

it'll dump hard after hardfork.
but as usual crypto is nuts and controlled by whales so coins like this im sure will bounce back after the fork.
how high, we'll see.

ETH will keep dropping as people are uncertain that the hard fork is successful. Even then, it will take some time for people to regain confidence in ETH.
For now, ETH won't rise as confidence will be lost after the DAO hacking.

A Chinese company has about 416,000 Ethereum which they bought late last year. Hope it will not dump.

The weak hands will be shaken out the tree. Those of us going long don't care so much for any shorterm fall. If successful I think the HF will demonstrate how great the ETH community is in its time of need. And this is what investors and big money will like to see.

is that a findable fact? i didn't think the chinese had gone in for eth in any way at all. they seem to like honest pow coins for their pumps and dumps. anyone who has that many must have a little bit of belief in there somewhere so a monster dump seems unlikely to me. whales are generally more subtle.

Hah! yeah right, if that were true you wouldn't be constantly shilling when you know the coin is toast.

This guy is gonna dump his bag as soon as he thinks he can get away with it, people don't be fooled into buying it from him.

If the Etheruem price rises in the next few days, many people will buy it. People are chasing the profits.

Chasing the profits being one thing, but it's all based on that the fundamentals are not weakened.

Chinese have always been so interested in pump and dump coins, don't you remember what they did to litecoin back before LTC halving?
they are anywhere that there is a profit to make.
and 416,000 ETH is nothing compared to what whales and those main ETH holders (vitalik and the gang) have in their pocket and have been controlling the price with.

Published on September 29, 2015 at 22:11 BST - http://www.coindesk.com/china-wanxiang-blockchain-50-million-fund/


During September 2015 ether price was ~2 dollars (if I'm not wrong). They are still in profit ;).

ETH is a long term hodl. Nice try at fudding though.

If the Ethereum price does not drop below $10 in the next two weeks, there is possibility it will be a long term hold.

weak hand above me imo; $10 is too high & two week is too short! don't hold your breath for it!
even if hf goes through no probs many dao holders will be dumping their eth!
i say it'll drop lower & will take more than a few weeks for the dust to settle!

Get the shorts ready and don't forget to bail before the squeeze! :)

It's like before Christmas. I'm all giddy and shit. Honestly, just curious to see where this goes, this thing has been playing out in slow motion foooorrreeeevvveerrr. Not gonna short, if I do decide to touch this, going to buy near the bottom on the way back up.

The people who think the Ethereum price will go down should short the coin and prepare for the short squeeze.

Most of the Ethereum trolls do not have the bravity to short the Ethereum as they are not sure about that they said.

Exaclty. If you want to short ETH then short it. Just quit fudding already. ETH is a long term hodl for me so I don't care less for short term movements. In fact the way the community has responded to an attack with full consensus and support is astounding.

These are just the fuders, they do not have the financial power to influence the decision of the Ethereum community.

Vitalik and his team has done well in the hard fork. It was smooth with no sign of technical problems. But I have a question. Is the new Ethereum "attack proof" from the one the hacker did with the DAO? Will we not see this happen anymore?

I keep reading about ethereum, coders are working to get back ethereum to normal where it was before. Ethereum still has a long term chance the community does not divide itself, though it will take a long time to recover from this market shock. Very unfortunate situation for all involved, but definitely rebound to normal positions.

The ETH and DAO community rose up to the challenge and responded with consensus in pulling off a major feat against the attacker(s). This is now a major plus in Ethereums future.

I don't call it 'major plus' what it will happen if someone will create an 'illegal' dapp or maybe something that a government doesn't like on the ethereum blockchain and somone (but maybe also the same fbi) will command to the eth. foundation to stop that contract?


I know it's an extreme example but in this sense ethereum isn't more immutable, censorship resistant and anti-fragile.

That's your opinion. Mine, and clearly others, is it's a major plus.

If we can have the authority on the land to get hold of the hacker(s), we do not need to reset the block chain.

Yup, those hackers that stole the Eth from the DAO with a HF really need to goto jail for that.

Ethereum whales in support of classic are determined to win the war

https://bitflikz.myshopify.com/blogs/news/ethereum-whales-offer-legal-support-for-dao-hacker-challenging-foundation

A strong buy wall has been created and Classic has already climbed to spot 6 in market cap.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/views/all/

I've never mined or supported ETH. I saw it for the centralized pre-mined bank supported system it is right off the bat, but I have now sparked up a ETC miner. If Eth survives (long run as in decades) It will be the ETC chain. I believe the ETH holders know this and will migrate slowly to the ETC chain. The smart ones will do that slowly to mitigate their losses. There is too much cap for a quick move to happen.

It is worth $41 million now, no. 8 on the list. When the big Ethereum whales and the hacker dump his coin, what will the price be?

It is worth $72 million now.  I am wondering who is buying the ETC, will that coin be killed by the hacker?

The price is even higher now. What will the price be when the DAO hacker starts to sell the 3+ million ETC?

If the DAO hacker is not part of the ETC team or not behind it, there is a possibility that he will attack it again.

So if the DAO hacker is not involved in the ETC pump, the ETC pump will finish soon, and dump will follow/

ETC will dump, esp as other exchanges open up ETC trading and allow people to access coins that they would not have the expertise to do on their own. After the selling pressure the exchanges are causing through enhanced liquidity is gone, I think the price might start to move upward long-term. But slowly. And that's still a big uncertainty.

The DAO fund holder will fund development of ETC.

Acting as though you know something to be a fact when you are speculating is arrogant and inaccurate. How can we truly know if we simply do not?
Let time and the community amongst other factors show us what will happen to ETH or ETC.

Then we may learn

Giving them the same shit they shovel, getting sick of using qualifiers and logic.

http://preppercentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/poo.jpg

SO its now the fight of ETH and ETC and BTC is out of the scene? LOLZ
I wouldn't be surprise if both ETC and ETH will arrive at a certain point where the battle can shake the world and make a buzz to which all those who are new to crypto will take sides but left BTC behind.

No. This battle will not be big enough for anybody that is not following the cryptoshere to notice. I think sometimes we are full of ourselves in thinking that all this will be really big and everyone will notice. This might come but not until 10 years or more. The bitcoiners are even struggling to let bitcoin be known until now.

If this has taught me anything, this whole bananas Ethereum debacle that is still very much in progress, is that you can't rationalize with a cult. The following on this coin had a ' drink the coolaid' vibe. You couldn't reason with people that had normally saner heads, and the percentage of trolls.that came out to play should be indicative of the amount of fanboys. So no, this won't die, come.fork, knife or spatula; this thing has adherents. It's here to stay.

Yes. This will not end until one of the chains becomes the only chain. It is in the hands of the miners now. I foresee a mining arms race between the original and the fork in the months to come. Right now the miners of the fork are in the comfortable lead. But they will be in panic once the hash power of the original chain becomes closer and closer to the has power of the fork. This will start the arms race.

Do.you think the emergence of the additional forked coin will further discuss the total network hash rate? If the replay attack.shit is real, then a fork of ETC might.be required.

The replay attack is real. I tried to send the ETC with the nonfork chain, the ETH money also disappeared.

There's no such thing as a "replay attack".  It is the normal working of a forked chain, that valid signed transactions on both chains, are included on both chains.

Does it mean in order to avoid the replay attack, we need to kill one chain so that there is only one chain to do the business.

No, absolutely not.  From the moment that you do a transaction that contains even just some dust of newly mined coins on one chain, that transaction is not valid on the other chain and you are from that point on, with that address, only on one chain.

With ETC/ETH, you can also use a contract (there's a blog post by Vitalik explaining this).

But in general, on any block chain, things go like this:

Pre-chain: you have UTXO ("addresses") of which you possess the secret key that can sign transactions.

If you sign a transaction using ONLY these UTXO with that secret key, you are making a new transaction to new UTXO (the "recipient address"). 

On both chains, your signature will be valid (some people call this automatic feat a "replay attack", I wonder why), and your transaction will be included if you do not pay attention.  If that is the case, then on both chains, the former UTXO is not unspend any more, and the new address is now an UTXO.  Warning: any signature on any chain of THIS POST-fork transaction is ALSO VALID on both chains and will ALSO be included on both chains ! 

So what can you do (in general, on any forked chain, not just ETH/ETC):

NEWLY MINED coins that appear in blocks after the split are of course only valid UTXO on one single chain: they are not considered valid on the other chain, because these are coinbase transactions in blocks that do not appear on the other chain.  *if you can get hold of some of these, even a minor amount* and you now sign a transaction with a COMBINED INPUT containing some of this mined coin dust and your former coins, then THIS TRANSACTION and its signature will of course NOT be valid on the other chain.

So this transaction will NOT turn the former UTXO into a spend output on the other chain, because no valid transaction uses it.

And from that moment on, the resulting new UTXO on the first chain will also only appear and be valid on one chain.  From that point on, whatever you do with those UTXO, you will never have to worry again about them initiating a transaction on the other chain because these UTXO don't exist on the other chain.

So in as much as coins will get more and more mixed with newly mined coins on each branch, this phenomenon of valid transactions on both chains will disappear.

That explanation is quite reassuring. I am still mining, but I will just mine one chain the ETH, so that will not be affected.

Actually, if you are only looking at one single chain, and don't even consider the other one, of course nothing of all this should be your worry.  It is only if you want to deal on both chains that you should be careful, and then, the most important danger is if you are dealing on the lower value chain (here ETC) that, by accident, you also don't emit an unwanted transaction on the more expensive chain (here ETH).

If you are on a mining pool, you should of course VERIFY that the coins they give you are indeed freshly mined ones.  But in as much as they are, you can use them to distinguish transactions.  People might even be interested in buying some from you at a premium price just to get some "distinguishing coins", although that would have been mainly just after the fork.

You can see it this way: suppose that I personally fork the Bitcoin block chain and I continue my private fork in the basement.  With bitcoin that's infeasible because of the way difficulty adapts slowly, so I'd be in for 5 years of mining the next block in my basement, but let us assume that I have my forked bitcoin chain in the basement for the sake of argument.    That wouldn't, of course, affect anybody, even though all "replay attacks" are valid, simply because all other bitcoin holders don't give a shit of what happens on MY bitcoin fork.  Probably my private bitcoins would have a market price of, I don't know, 100 000 dinocoins for a pizza or so.  However, if my neighbours and I do a dinocoin transaction, we have to be careful not to also do a genuine bitcoin transaction on the main chain, because otherwise, the pizza is going to be hugely expensive.  However, any other bitcoin holder will only do transactions on the main chain, and actually, these transactions will also be copied on my chain, but nobody cares.

So for the ETC after it is converted from ETH, it can transfer freely in the ETC network and cannot be transferred back into ETH network. Is that right?

It seems there will be 51% attackes on the Ethereum ETC network:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4vf7fj/51_etc_attack_pool_mining_eth_until_hashrate/?st=irabq392&sh=15d962bf

I heard that the ETC will hard fork itself and that could avoid the replay attack. That might make it last long.

If the ETC hard fork, there will ETC and ETC Classic ETCC again. That will be very interesting to observe.

The Ethereum has not finished after the DAO attack. In fact, we have two EThereum now, the ETC and ETH.

looks like the new drama that this attack has created in ethereum world has only made it better for making profit, so far the classic version which is called ETC has been rising over the past few days and doesn't seems to be slowing down any time soon even with all the threats that is being made against it.

That is absolutely right. The miners are making good profit by mining the two version of the Ethereum now.

Miners will merge mine as soon as they can. I think we'll get a parity in price and thing could be stable with merge mining. If no merge mining is official until parity i'd expect the dirt-fork to bite the dust. But that line of thought is likely out of reach for the dirt-fork-amateurs to get their head around in time.

That is a good idea. Is there any plan to merge mine the coins by the developers or miner can do it themselves?

I do not think the Ethereum Foundation will support the ETC any more. They will work 100% on ETH.

That's the only thing to do if they want to go forward.
The famous quote that applies here is "If I look back I am lost".

Many developers have already claimed that they will support the ETH only, that could be reason for the drop of the ETC.

If the market cap of ETC is higher than ETH, they will also support the ETC. There is nothing concrete now.

Huh ? Market cap cannot possibly increase without a huge pump / manipulation from bitcoin whales. DEVS don't develop dapps / projects on ethereum because of the market cap, but because of it's capabilities / development. Ethereum in 6 to 12 months will move to proof of stake, and this is a long term project. Abandoned chain / etc on the other side, well, it has no potential at all because of the difficulty bomb in it's code. So it has to either hard fork to remove the difficulty bomb ,or hardfork to move to POS. Moving to POS is impossible in ETC's state, since it may  take years to be implemented without the help of ethereum foundation, and they wont help, they have their own project to work on ,ethereum. So the only option left for ETC is to hardfork somewhere next year or in max 2 years to remove the difficulty bomb, but in which case, it wont be a DAPP platform but a monetary system like litecoin, monero, and many others.

So there's no chance of seeing DAPPs on ETC, except for the very small and unimportant ones, like betting dapps and so on, only short term projects with sole purpose of boosting market cap by attracting ill informed people about ETC's curent developing state.

You are already judging it and deeming your statement as a matter of fact. We have not even seen what future lies ahead with the forked chain yet. It could still fail and everyone will be in a hurry to get back to the original chain. Remember the important dapps in the forked chain are also confused now in what the future holds in Ethereum fork.

Until now ethreum still exist price is standard not down is low price
and not up over high price and capitalization volume transaction is very good

There are no comments from the DAO hackers yet. So the fate of the ETC has not been decided firmly.

DAO hacker havent brought to light his coins.. i think that ETC will increase in value very much till that day.. After this incident, there can be a great recession...

That could be true. The ETC price is reasonably stable at the moment. So people or the investors are waiting for the news.

I think that might happen. So the DAO hacker should tell us what he wants to do with his coin now.

whitehat removed 7million etc from dao!
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4wnlxg/whitehat_removed_7million_etc_from_dao/?st=irlt3zyf&sh=9b87b9f9

Do we know the plan of the white hat hacker? If they dumped the ETC at a price of $2 each, that is good money.

They are weighing the options. Some people think they should sell the ETC for ETH, then donate to ETH foundation.

That's a gud plan and one that I'd support wholeheartedly.

thats true though the  hacker is definitely not going to be dumping his money soon, i think that he will hold it for the future when a pump will happen

Nobody dares to pump the ETC if he knows somebody will dump the coins to him at a very high price.

Most ETC buyers or traders are just in for the short term profit. They do not believe the further development of the ETC.

Further developments of the ETC criminal coin? There's been no developments of the ETC criminal coin and there will be none. Remember, thieves never prosper.

Nobody? Are you sure? What about the attacker? He is an ETC whale and how do whales make money? They pump, we follow and then they dump on us. Then onward to another coin, rinse repeat. :)

not only him but all the ETH whales are now ETC whales too.
and also many other traders have become big whales in the last few weeks of trading ETC and accumulating it by spreading FUD like the above comments, to create panic and chaos and use the opportunity to buy cheaper coins.

yeah, that would be some great profit to him to be honest though we dont know what he wants to do and what not and that is a bad thing

Follow Up Statement on the ETC Salvaged from attackDAOs

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4xasg3/follow_up_statement_on_the_etc_salvaged_from/?st=irri2xtr&sh=eda9fbff

It seems that is no firm decision yet.

Following the events of the last 24 hours we want to keep the community updated:

After having received repeated legal threats from various individuals holding significant stakes in The DAO (still continuing), we sought legal advice to help us pursue our goal without endangering ourselves or the salvaged funds. We found support and legal advice from Bity SA, a trusted Swiss entity. It has agreed to protect, secure and later distribute the funds equitably under an independent Swiss legal structure. The number 1 goal has always been to ensure that the salvaged funds are distributed in a fair, transparent and just manner. This remains unchanged.

When the salvaged ETC were able to be recovered, signals were received from the greater community to distribute these ETC in ETH, to continue to support Ethereum projects. Also, a large portion of the community does not have the technical ability to safely work both with ETC and ETH in the same address; therefore, returning part of salvaged ETC in ETH seemed to be the safest for all the parties involved. The first actions from the Swiss structure took place Tuesday August 9th and it preferred to not announce the movement of ETC in advance to avoid speculators taking advantage of the situation. Part of these funds are still on exchanges and the rest of the funds are held in the following accounts:

ETC Multisig: 0x1ac729d2db43103faf213cb9371d6b42ea7a830f

ETH Multisig: 0xd3b0b4fc31ee1f8570c75c19caa93cc1557e538f

BTC Multisig: 3JYwxuaHGKt8rZ9NbTEcyYRXtqkfN5Lz5Y

BTC Multisig2: 3Er3uMqBruv8VnhXUjyRbp2McASUE8t9HA

It has now become clear that this approach will introduce many unnecessary complications and wouldn’t bring certainty to all DAO Token Holders that they would be treated equally and with fairness. The objective evolved from the most desirable outcome (distributing ETH and ETC) to the most efficient and comprehensible distribution solution, that all funds will be made available in ETC to the DAO Token Holders. To achieve this, all exchanges will be asked to return the funds to the Multisig wallets.

We would like to thank the community for their trust and ask for their patience as the responsibility of returning this value to the DAO Token Holders is not an easy task. We are under a lot of pressure, but throughout this process we will continue to do the best that we can to protect the interests of the DAO Token Holders.

All the legal and technical work of the community members and the companies involved, has always been on a volunteer and pro-bono basis. Following our first statement, members of the community have expressed their keenness to donate crypto assets in recognition for the efforts deployed to salvage the ETC from the attackDAOs and to distribute it back to the community. Accordingly, it will be possible to donate when retrieving the funds. We will communicate next with a detailed plan for the distribution.

Why wouldn't they just move the ETC to a return contract and distribute it in the exact manner as ETH was returned (didn't read a single complaint about that method on any forum).

Having moved it to exchanges to sell seems somewhat absurd behaviour if you're planning on returning people's property. My favorite comment on the subreddit was by i3nikolai:

ethereum took a big hit after the DAO hack and the poorly handled situation after it by this centralized altcoin.
this is something that it can never clear from its name and will always remain with ethereum forever. and the price is surely fake because everybody was trading ETC when ETH got pumped by the whales and manipulators which was unnatural.

the hacker might not dump his coins, we dont know anything about it to be honest, besides that only etc is the real ethereum right now

If you think the ETC is the real Ethereum now, you should buy some ETC and donate to the development.

we do not know the plan of his though i think that etc is still going to be better, maybe he has already dumped his coins we will never know

The plan of the white hat is to return all the DAO ETC:

After having received repeated legal threats from various individuals holding significant stakes in The DAO (still continuing), we sought legal advice to help us pursue our goal without endangering ourselves or the salvaged funds. We found support and legal advice from Bity SA, a trusted Swiss entity. It has agreed to protect, secure and later distribute the funds equitably under an independent Swiss legal structure. The number 1 goal has always been to ensure that the salvaged funds are distributed in a fair, transparent and just manner. This remains unchanged.

When the salvaged ETC were able to be recovered, signals were received from the greater community to distribute these ETC in ETH, to continue to support Ethereum projects. Also, a large portion of the community does not have the technical ability to safely work both with ETC and ETH in the same address; therefore, returning part of salvaged ETC in ETH seemed to be the safest for all the parties involved. The first actions from the Swiss structure took place Tuesday August 9th and it preferred to not announce the movement of ETC in advance to avoid speculators taking advantage of the situation. Part of these funds are still on exchanges and the rest of the funds are held in the following accounts:

ETC Multisig: 0x1ac729d2db43103faf213cb9371d6b42ea7a830f

ETH Multisig: 0xd3b0b4fc31ee1f8570c75c19caa93cc1557e538f

BTC Multisig: 3JYwxuaHGKt8rZ9NbTEcyYRXtqkfN5Lz5Y

BTC Multisig2: 3Er3uMqBruv8VnhXUjyRbp2McASUE8t9HA

It has now become clear that this approach will introduce many unnecessary complications and wouldn’t bring certainty to all DAO Token Holders that they would be treated equally and with fairness. The objective evolved from the most desirable outcome (distributing ETH and ETC) to the most efficient and comprehensible distribution solution, that all funds will be made available in ETC to the DAO Token Holders. To achieve this, all exchanges will be asked to return the funds to the Multisig wallets.

We would like to thank the community for their trust and ask for their patience as the responsibility of returning this value to the DAO Token Holders is not an easy task. We are under a lot of pressure, but throughout this process we will continue to do the best that we can to protect the interests of the DAO Token Holders.

All the legal and technical work of the community members and the companies involved, has always been on a volunteer and pro-bono basis. Following our first statement, members of the community have expressed their keenness to donate crypto assets in recognition for the efforts deployed to salvage the ETC from the attackDAOs and to distribute it back to the community. Accordingly, it will be possible to donate when retrieving the funds. We will communicate next with a detailed plan for the distribution.

TODAY the Merkle ran with...
White Hat Hackers Caught Red-handed During Attempted ETC Sell-off

"After the funds were recovered by the white hat hackers, some transactions were sent to exchange wallets  This caused a lot of speculation among Ethereum Classic enthusiasts, as there was no official explanation for doing so. Moreover, the ETC price saw a significant decline, which seemed to indicate the funds was being sold-off by these “trustworthy” individuals."

http://themerkle.com/white-hat-hackers-caught-red-handed-during-attempted-etc-sell-off/

Fhew! I looked quickly and didn't notice this post was from early June! I was like NOOO NOT AGAIN!!!  lol :D

If they sell the ETC and send the funds to the Ethereum Classic, then it is good. Any way, they should be able to do whatever they want.

I disagree :) Those coins are correlated with the ones on the ETH blockchain, and belong proportionately to the entire DAO (all participants). To not ask for community consensus before attempting to sell the coins feels a bit disgenuine;  they made a big deal about community 'consensus' for the hardfork.  Essentially, these coins don't belong to them completely, and they should have made their actions public as this is a pretty serious conflict of interest. Also, they have managed to make these coins non liquidable for the time being, they can't be returned by the exchanges. They have already made their motivations clear with their actions; the exchanges would be crazy to give them back the ammo they need to crash the price. So the exchanges will drag ass getting the coins back to them, whike the price goes up because there are that many fewer coins in play.

I heard that the white hat hacker will return the DAO ETC to the original owners. We do not know the intention of the black hat yet.

You heard wrong. They attempted to dump all the ETC to buy ETH and use that to fund development on the forked chain. The exchanges Poloniex and Kraken now have frozen some of those funds.

The white hat hacking group actually has connections with the Ethereum foundation. Now they have Swiss lawyers involved in the return of the funds. That is bad news for the DAO holders because they might lawyer their way from giving the funds back to the actual owners.

Why did they not return the funds right away?

I think they want to influence the price of the ETH and ETC. But that is just my speculation, not necessary true.

According to the statements from the white hats, they will find a way to return the funds. There is no mention of the black hat yet.

so the real ethereum is etc? i think etc unstable for now  ???

Do not buy ETC. It is not for you. Better for you to buy ETH if you think that is more stable.

he White Hats and DAO Wars: Behind the Scenes

The actions of the White Hat Group (WHG) have been shrouded in mystery and it is time for this once-necessary precaution to come to an end. Transparency matters to all of us. Previously, it was deemed unwise for the WHG to elaborate on the details of the situation while the salvage operation was unfolding, to prevent new and old attackers from knowing their movements to better understand how to attack DAOs. Now that the community is questioning their actions and intentions, we, at Bity, feel it is necessary to share the details of what the WHG has been dealing and living with over the last few weeks.

https://blog.bity.com/2016/08/13/the-white-hats-and-dao-wars-behind-the-scenes/

So the white hat will return the ETC to the original holders. If the black hat also returns the stolen funds, it is better.

If the DAO hacker also return the funds and compensate to the loss of the Ethereum holders due to his action, the price will rise.

I doubt it will be that simple. The white hat hacking group which is comprised of slock.it developers and ethereum foundation developers has already hired lawyers to "help" them figure out a way to properly return the ETC. These same lawyers they hired are not a neutral party but it is actually their legal partner when they created the DAO.

Read the whole story.

https://medium.com/@jackfru1t/the-robin-hood-group-and-etc-bdc6a0c111c3#.jgy1h5vfg

If the return of the ETC is delayed, that could be a good news. That might mean there will be few ETC to be dumped.

I think you're overreacting, but I agree that the hardfork was unnecessary.

http://www.bitcoinerrorlog.com/2016/08/16/vitaliks-quantum-quest/

We shall know that if the hard fork is necessary in the next few weeks when the DAO hacker has access to the stolen ETC.

I think its already been done and finished attack by hackers.. because the price of ethereum still stay at $11 usd and i think there is possibility that the price will increase again more.. we know coinbase has eth right now.

The price of Ethereum will not rise before we know the fate of the ETC after the DAO hacker got access to the ETC.

That is right. It will take some time for us to know if the DAO hacker will or has dump the coins. It is better to wait.

just have a look here some links

Wallets here: 
Ethereum Classic Mist Wallet - 0.8.1 (1.4.10 go-ethereum) by whatisgravity
https://github.com/ethereumproject/mist/releases/tag/5cbe0c0
Get new "etc only" geth node here https://github.com/ethereumproject/go-ethereum/releases/tag/6aaf5f3

New
Light Client-Side Wallet by elaine
So no need to download the blockchain https://elaineo.github.io/etherwallet/#generate-wallet
Send with Replay Protection on the light wallet https://elaineo.github.io/etherwallet/#replay-protection

Mining pools that are know good payers  https://etc.suprnova.cc/ or  http://epool.io/#/ or  https://etc.nanopool.org/
other pools are available, (please help others and tell us the good from the bad)

Solo Mining How-to for Windows  on bottom of page 191 of this thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559630.3800

Network Hashrate is 654.9 GH/s   http://fork.ethstats.net/
Mining Profit Calculator  https://www.whattomine.com/

Additional Tools
Official Block Explorer  http://blocks.elaineou.com/home

New
Ethereum Classic website   https://ethereumclassic.github.io/
Now with links to the New ETHEREUM CLASSIC FORUM, just follow “SOCIAL LINK” on the Ethereum Classic Website


Come aboard, All miners are Welcome!
Please watch this video & try to begin to understand how you can help scale this project. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=8oeiOeDq_Nc

Follow the progress of the 12 Person Dev team & The Bomb Disposal Squad here: https://trello.com/etcdev
We have 100+ volunteer coders https://github.com/ethereumproject/volunteer/tree/master/Key   
700 on slack https://ethereumclassic.slack.com/messages/development/
And World support from many miners like Chandler Guo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgz7k5iTGkI

We will not know the real Ethereum in the near future. It is possible one of the Ethereum will be dead. The remaining one will be the real one.

ETH and ETC will stay side by side, both of them almost on an equal footing.

So why create ETC if ETH can fight on its own. Saying this is the original one. So you have been putting your trust in one hell of a fake coin. One thing I am sure. Yes ETC will survive but I dont know about ETH. It is really fishy.

It does not matter which one is the original. The one supported by the most of the people will be the major one.

They might live together for the short term. But in the long term, only the one supported by big community will survive.

the fact that ETH can't get back to pre-hack levels explains a lot ...

It can be happen again there is no perfect that can be the same as bitcoin right now.. hacking can be still happen..
The security is still weak.. but i hope it will not happen again so that it can not affect the price again.

Nope, not really.

I agree with that. But the last hacking was caused by very bad coding. I hope they will audit the cod better next time.

I am lovin' this. I just discovered it by chance. It's speculation at its finest. I got no love or hate for ETH or ETC, but to simply call ETH over is hilarious. How many mistakes do startup anythings make? That's how they become great or just flat disintegrate. Giving up so soon? So easy? There's simply too much going on involving ETH to turn your back on it now. Give it a few years. There's two big conferences coming up in a week or so. What, ya can't even wait that long to see if anything great materializes to re-spark your interest? So typical.

Oh. I think he is a bit mad.
ETH proved its worth by time spent with us. I hate to disagree but there will be a time that it will come in handy .
I dont have ETH but I do believe this is also a strong one.

He is right let us give it some few years maybe then it can prove more what its worth.

I hope so  ;D and ethereum classic ETC will become more popular and there are many people who use it for trading, because consept of ETH has be taken by ETC. Actually ETC is real ethereum after hard fork.

The Ethereum price is rising at the moment. I think it is caused by the big convention happen in Shanghai, China.

Ethereum are continue there services and it is now a widely use that people choose this coin to invest with and they really appreciate the Ethereum backs and Ethereum will me more popular someday next to bitcoin coz coinbase now are featuring Ethereum so that they can easily pay credit card to ethereum

Ya man, ETH Take-Out-Bitcoin-Big-Mo screeched to a halt...
That silence you hear is 10,000 corporate CTOs rethinking the idea of using public blockchains.

ETH needs some of that cool vaporware like Augur, etc to start generating 1000s of tx...
That is the only thing that will get the ETH Train back on track.

With or without the convention ETH price surge is definitely inevitable at any given moment.

ETH is a big survivor! ;)

Looking forward to devcon2.

Looks like the glory days of ETH is coming back. How far do you think it can go this time?

We'll see that when the next exploit of a smart contract happens...

Probably $20 on the upside. Some exciting news coming out this week. Gud buying opportunity.

Ethereum-ETH is far from finished. Quite the contrary. The attacks on it are the ultimate signs of jealousy for a coin and an entire technology that will be everywhere all the time and growing in leaps and bounds for the unforseeable future. You can count on it. The attacks are compliments in disguise. I am sorry, but I am right on this.

So finished , eh?!

iTs probably ETC douchebags, as ETC has not seen any of this kind of attacks and it would be more vulnerable as it has not way near the support ETH has


kiss it goodbye ETC suckers

It seems this thread has backfired on ETC not on ETH.

very much so. The ETC Criminal Coin is dying while ETH original Ethereum is flying.

until now ethereum still good coin, the price incraese
and big community ethereum still use and trading with ethereum
volume transaction still high number two after bitcoin

This has been said on June 17, 2016. After that attack ETH survived a few more , and looks like its just getting stronger and better :o) Some group of ppl just want to destroy ETH , and they are trying that to hard :)

You are maybe pertaining to the community of the main rival of ETH.

Its still too huge too fail. ETH had already gained supporters that sets up walls so this isn't going down. it would take a thousands of hacks before they will give up. I still bet for this coin to compete bitcoin on the same level.

Both have drifted equally into obscurity from what i see.

Why ?

It's predictable.. the scene is made of profiteers.. not bag-holders like you Minecache.
And since that is indisputable that means they will forever jump from coin to coin.
Constantly trying to stay ahead of the curve.. for profits.

It is the way of Crypto-Life !

"Re: I think Ethereum will be finished after this attack"
Ya.. pretty much.
All the bad news swirling around it has damaged an already bad ICO scheme.
Look around.. no one really cares.

No one ever did either.

The only reason it got a any attention was because some whales pumped it hard
which lured in the dregs of crypto-society hoping to make a buck of the pumper.
When the pumper / manipulation team stopped (leaving some walls up)
The crowd got restless and wandered off as predicted.

It is obvious and it is common sense and all the shitcointalk rabble will not change the facts.
Life goes on..

Want the party to start all over again Minecache ? Then pony up a small fortune and pump the coin's price up.
Other than that enjoy loitering around here shilling and talking up Ethereum.
Just don't expect the majority to come running back to ETH.
What reason would they have to do so ?
I already told you they only care about profits.
And actions speak louder than words.

People were hearing "talk" about Ethereum since 2014 on places such as Coindesk who shilled hard for it.
But you will all notice that nothing happened until the manipulation team went into over drive orchestrating the worlds biggest hype / spam / pump campaign we ever seen !
Before that Crypto gove 0 fucks !

it is definitely not going to go down in the future, i think it is going to remain like that because there are a lot of believers

With each passing day it's becoming more and more clearer that ETH is the new BTC. And at the current low price you'd be crazy not to pick up a few coins.

I see the price of ETH going up, and people buying it,
but what are they actually doing with it?
Are there any sites/ services that actually accept payment in ETH?
I haven't seen anyone take payment except for Bitcoin and some Monero.

Gambling and waiting for a greater fool to buy them at a higher price.

The best thing that can happen to ETH is that no DAPPS of any significance ever see the daylight, because as they will be full of exploits, that would harm the dream that "one day" ETH will be the basis of smart contracts.  As long as the dream is sustained, there's hope to find greater fools.

You're wrong and you aren't smart enough to realise that. No one can ever stop people / scammers / programmers trying to build dapps, like the DAO, so there will be more poorly coded dapps / projects and that alone doesn't have anything to do with the platform itself. That's like blaming the forum for the low quality of it's posters like yourself. Yes they could moderate it, because it's centralized, but ethereum platform can't "moderate" the dapps / projects. Either way, that doesn't dwarf the potential and technologigal achievement of this disruptive technology.

This is funny they are making investors to panic to sell there ethereum sometimes you just need to learn more about things on internet so you will not be foolish by this acitivities , Ethereum is not an easy coin that will be dead after an DDOS attack the engeering of this alt coins is good and they can maintain all attacks

You are right. The recent DDOS attack showed the developers are quick to respond and new update are released already.

And it will be new attacks and Vitalik will make new fork ;)

That's probably exactly the reason why the platform that didn't have anything to do with it, forked over the poorly coded DAO I guess  ;D

http://www.coindesk.com/so-it-looks-like-ethereum-is-going-to-have-to-fork-again/

Déjà vu?

Although there isn't a timeline yet, ethereum creator Vitalik Buterin today suggested that the platform's developers may have to hard fork to once again solve pressing network problems. If pursued, the move would come less than three months after ethereum last executed a hard fork in a controversial bid to return funds to investors in The DAO.

Despite the potential risks (last time, the upgrade didn't go as planned), the new fork seems to have initial support, as it is seen as a way to foil ongoing attacks on the network.

In recent weeks, the ethereum blockchain has been barraged with a series of denial of service attacks, which have slowed transactions and caused nodes to crash. Exchanges like Kraken and ShapeShift have temporarily paused ether trades as a result.

Because of this, developers are looking for a fast fix to the problem, which has acutely impacted clients including geth and Parity, in the form of a hard fork.

Ethcore developer Marek Kotewicz, who works on the Parity client, noted that, a fork increasingly seems like the easiest option to stop the attacks.

He told CoinDesk:

"You know, no one likes hard forks, but that's what I think we need to do."

In the last month, developers of the Go-version ethereum client, Geth, have released six new versions to fix the various denial of service attacks to no avail

But rather than continue to create new releases (the team has averaged one release every three days), the idea behind the hard fork is to resolve the network issues in one swoop.

Uncontroversial but controversial

But it's important to note that this hard fork will likely be different than the one executed in the wake of the failure of The DAO.

As many ethereum developers see it, this hard fork is an uncontroversial change as it will boost security, unlike the last fork. Passed amid heightened drama and discussion, developers argue the most recent fork shifted consensus rules by altering ethereum's immutable ledger, making it unclear whether its smart contracts could be truly "unstoppable".

But since the next fork would bring a security change that developers expect to impact users positively, the feeling is ethereum's community is likely to be less resistant.

"I don't expect much controversy over this one, technical forks are basically just 'updates' for the protocol and this one is obviously necessary," developer Zsolt Felföldi, who works on geth, told CoinDesk.

Not to mention, hard forks are arguably part of ethereum's DNA, as many in its community view the action as a way to upgrade the software in a way that supports its larger goals.

"The ethereum project always stated that it will hard fork often to progress the technology," Heiko Hees, a developer working on ethereum's Raiden Network, explained.

In the eyes of many ethereum developers, this hard fork will look more like the hard fork to update to Homestead, ethereum's latest software release, which went according to a previously announced roadmap.

Felföldi said:

"As Homestead was easily accepted by everyone, I expect the same here."

Why a hard fork?

The attacker has been taking advantage of the way the network prices a function called "gas", which determines the fees used for accessing smart contract processing power on ethereum. Because prices are low, those familiar with the matter said the attacker can cheaply disrupt the network. This is what the developers are trying to fix.

So, while there are many versions of the hard fork in progress, the gist is the same. The fork will seek to raise gas prices to a cost that more accurately incentivizes actions that aren't disruptive to the network. (Some multiply the cost by 10 to 20 times what it was before).

For example, the top version of the hard fork, EIP 150, addresses this.

In the social media post describing the proposed changes, Buterin explained that developers ultimately hoped to adopt a more dynamic gas fee market that can meet the changing demands of the network. But right now, it's too complicated to roll out, and the team wants to push out a quick fix soon as possible to stop network disruptions.

"In the longer term, there certainly are ways that the gas schedule can be made much more flexible," Buterin's post explains.

Outside agreement

Even those in other blockchain communities have argued that a hard fork is the only option.

A developer for ethereum classic, the cryptocurrency that only exists because it continued the ethereum blockchain abandoned in the past hard fork, also argued in favor of the idea.

"With the upcoming Metropolis release, there will undoubtedly be more issues arising, so if they keep making small changes up to the metro release they run the risk of compounded attacks," ethereum classic supporter Vic Arulchandran said.

He agreed a hard fork is the best option to fix the issues "ASAP". (Notably, ethereum classic has been experiencing DoS attacks as well, and may have to consider similar measures).

Elsewhere, Blockstream principal architect Christopher Allen agreed that this is the most likely outcome.

"They’re actually going to have to do a hard fork, with all the risks of a hard fork, to fix their own weight calculation," he told CoinDesk at last week's Scaling Bitcoin conference.

However, some say that there are still risks involved.

Economist and investor Tuur Demeester argued that ethereum could find itself in a situation again where initial support for a proposed hard fork erodes due to unforeseen consequences.

"The hard fork that created ethereum classic caused a lot of animosity and a lot of dissatisfaction in the community," he noted.

On the other hand, his criticism is not directed toward the specifics of the hard fork so much as what he sees as ethereum's attitude toward security and how it has handled problems in the past.

"I would be concerned that it's going to undermine the idea that ethereum is a stable network where people can actually deploy contracts that can sustain real-world business interactions," Demeester said.

Summing up the likely views of many observers, he added:

"I’m curious to see how it plays out."