Bitcoin Forum

Your Order #100000573 (placed on February 7, 2013 1:48:59 AM PST)

Feb 7 - placed order
Feb 11 - "Hi, can you let me know when I will get this order?"
Feb 12 - "You can expect to get your order in about 5-7 business days. Let us know if you have more questions!"
Feb 19 - ... Do you not have a tracking number?"
Feb 20 - " ... You will get a tracking number in your email within the next 2-3 business days."
Feb 22 - "Hi Jay, if you can't ship my order in a timely matter then I would like a refund and purchase this elsewhere."
Feb 23 - "You are designated to be part of our next batch of shipping and should be no more than 1-2 business days at the most."
Mar 1: "Today is March 1st. No shipping number, still does not appear to have being shipped."
Mar 4: I email them again.

It was finally shipped, after one month of delays.

I just received the menu, and upon seeing that the paradigm has shifted, I will now deliver barn wood when I damn well feel like it.

I should be bankrupt in about two months, thus making plans to marry my shadow goat to spend more time with him...I meant her.

It works for BFL.

haha I had the exact same thing.
I actually tried to cancel 2 days after ordering but it was "to late" apparantly, but that is fair enough I guess (not complaining about that).
But yeah your replies were exact same as mine. So many diff excuses, one after another. Literally had to chase after them or never would of gotten any sort of reply. In the end I was like how about I sell you back the gold you havn't sent me after like a month, and I'll just take the loss in $$.
Pretty sure there is something in the BBB (or whatever the business consumer thingo in U.S.A is called, I can't remember, I'm fron AUS) that is pretty specific about selling gold and or giving refunds if they can't produce the product and don't notify you.. I know in my case I was never notified about any delays.. It was just after constantly chasing them they would say 'ah yip expect it in 2-3 days' then repeat for a number of weeks. 

In case it helps - in the real world it goes like this:

The dealer must make sure that the customer is trustworthy, BEFOREHAND.

The dealer must make sure that he can deliver the promise, BEFOREHAND.

THEN, the customer may place a binding order with the dealer. Usually, the price quoted is locked-in for one hour, during which the customer must pay. In high-trust cases, the payment may come several days late. In low-trust cases, the customer pays first, and then the price is locked in.

At the lock-in moment, the dealer executes the trade with his suppliers. After that, the customer owns metal, not cash. If he fails to pay, the dealer is entitled to the damages. If customer wants to cancel, that is a new trade. If dealer wants to cancel, HE CANNOT. He MUST deliver. The customer has bought certain metal and he is entitled to receive it. End of story.

So, with reputable dealers, there may be problems, but they are not related to whether the customer has the right to his purchase. If that is denied, it is a scam.

Considering how much the cost of metal in bitcoins has gone down, it must have been a great profit to hold customers bitcoins and buy the metal later at a lower price.

This process is described in painstakingly detail in every country's legal code (should be, anyways).
When it comes to PMs, the customer also CANNOT cancel in Germany (revocation rights are revoked by law regarding PMs).

So we have to avoid Coinabul - I get it.

Your order shipped in 16 business days- slightly towards the slower end of the spectrum, but in line with our page here describing typical order timelines: http://coinabul.com/index.php/coinabul-secure-bullion-shipping-and-ordering-process-how-to

Sometimes the bullion market experiences shortages on certain items, or banks and manufacturers have various delays. These are things we work hard to mitigate, but sometimes we are encumbered by external factors over which we have no control. Practically speaking, 4 business days is about on-par with most USD based major retailers.

-Jay

Someone is in dire need of a Customer Service 101 lesson.

I think it works this way.

Feb 7: Coinabul gets the BTC and converts to USD. Transfers them to a bank. Also place an order with a dealer to lock the metal price.
Feb 12: Coinabul finally got the money and paid a dealer. I dont think they have stock.
Feb 20: Still didn't get the order from their dealer.
Feb 23: Finally got their order from a dealer.
Mar 1: Ah the dealer didn't ship the item yet....
March 7: The dealer ships it finally.
March 14: The customer gets it.

The site is down now.

Hmm, curious it's down at the same time as BFL.

For BTC20, I'll tell you what other site went down at exactly the same time as these two. For another BTC20, I show you how and why it was possible. For only BTC10, I'll provide you a chair to make sure you're sitting down when you receive unsaid information.

Is it time to put them here ?

http://bitcoin-shitlist.com/

Thinking about taking that site offline, because ,seriously, for how many scams happen around here you see people aren't willing to share their experiences outside of this forum.
It's a failure.


Phinn, Joe's datacenter?

I used to buy from these guys weekly no problem at all.. Its hard to see all these complaints pile up now. pshhh oh well..

Could it be that coinabul has shitloads of customers and just having a hard time dealing with it, and in addition are quite poor at customer service ?

I mean, if you have 100 customers nagging you about outstanding orders, if you are slow at reacting, some of them will probably give up, which is a 'win' for coinabul. Not sure if they think like this, but i know of quite a few companies that think like that!

Drug dealers gotta cash out from SR anonymously some how. I'm not surprised that they're backed up out the ass, considering how much money is moving through there.

That's an excellent guess, but honestly I didn't know they were down tell after I posted here, then I went ahead and posted my parking ticket comment.

Can we get a response from Coinabul? These are some pretty serious allegations.

Let's see if this is legit or a scam.  I placed an order for 1 coin from their website.

Sent the bitcoins in.  Got the email confirmation of the order.  Called both numbers several time, left voice mails.  no returned phone call.

Sent an email asking for shipping status.

No responses yet.

Isnt it obvious? He is selling what he does not have in some cases. He goes out and makes an order and once in ships it.
A middleman making a cut from you. Just order from a reputable site who actually has possession of what they are selling and if not it is marked out of stock.

Are there other such 'gold and silver for bitcoin' sites?

i sure would like to know...

i am unsure. i would have to google to find out.
but are you so desperate to pay with btc that you are willing to risk some screw up?

just how much above spot (usd) per oz of silver and oz of gold are you willing to pay with a reasonable shipping fee?

I'm looking for a discount versus local coin shops because I'm paying in Bitcoin.

That makes it hard for a bullion operation then who has to keep getting new stock. No major supplier of bullion wants btc.
So one has to sell cheaper, take a hit converting to usd plus volatility, restock hopefully in quantity to save money, and repeat.
A lot of work to make a few dollars selling an oz of gold via mail.

An online Bitcoin bullion store, which does not need to rent a storefront or pay for utilities, and who does not need to worry about credit or debit card fees, or check fraud, should be expected to have slightly cheaper rates than a traditional B&M store that has to pay for all of these.

Bitcoin-based stores can sell all Bitcoin payments for USD immediately if they want to, so they run no risk of the price of Bitcoin dropping.

There are USD-based online coin dealers that hold stock and sell from their stock. It shouldn't be impossible for a Bitcoin-based coin dealer to hold stock and sell from their stock.

Any major bullion purchase is done via wire or check (with most having a waiting period).
It is true you can save money with no brick and mortar store but keep in mind that major online sellers have a single location that
serves the world. That scales VERY well.

btc sent -> bullion owner sends to exchange -> six confirmations later they possibly lost a percentage before selling. They need to hedge
which is truly not available to my knowledge. Lets be realistic here. It can go up and it can go down. A slow decline over a few month
period could put a person out of business due to no profits.

And that is what I would like to see. A btc bullion store with 4-7 offerings in stock and ready to ship. But that requires, lets guess,
50K to 100K to start up. Buying a few gold sizes will chew up 50K easily.

Anyway. I do not want to be argumentative. I just think coinabul does not keep most of their goods in stock and if they have to
order it via mail... one should not expect their goods in 7 days. Triple that easily. Sometimes even longer if the companies they are
selling from is out of stock.

But lets see what the free market offers in the next months.

^^^ the waiting part would be fine if the communication was their from the start. The problem is when you ask "is XX in stock" and they say "yeah, will be shipped in 3 days" and then 3 weeks later you still have to keep chasing them.

Gee, I hope that scammer Coinabul is reshipping that gold. I'm sure the customer paid for it fair and square. He'd better reship it or else there's probably going to be a scammer tag!

There are already bullion dealers around who only sell from their own stock.

Other bullion dealers selling for Bitcoin? Which ones?

I, for example. Only serve the EU, though. Have been full time precious metals dealer since 2006. See the links below for details.

Ah, neat. Unfortunately I am not in the EU.

Is it possible to get a refund after you've already sent your bitcoins? I don't want to wait 3 weeks.

Don't think I'll ever buy from them again if my coins don't arrive by next friday. It wasn't even a large order, it was a very small one.

another day, no responses from coinabul

For those who cashed out when bitcoin was over $200, I wonder if they converted to USD fast enough... for everyone's sake.

Nah! They saw it going to $300 in the next couple hours so opted to hang onto them. When they saw the price point moving south, they simply got into the lagline, therefore all is swell.

Got an email telling me that my order "has been Pending."

really?  how's that telling me anything different that what you have on the website.

When are you shipping?  what's the tracking #?

Product delivered → post in "Scam Accusations"? Move to Service Discussion (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=85.0)

Still Pending... no shipping info.

Still "Pending"...

lol. product on hand. not.

At least they are having a sale, so it will cost you less to have no idea whether your not you will ever get your metals.  I'd love to feel better about the prospects of getting mine, but it does not look good.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78007.0

I received a response to the email I sent Jay on Friday...

Hi Chad,

The metals markets have been more hammered than usual, but your order should be shipping this week.

Thanks very much for your patience as the metals markets start to get back to a normal production rate.

-Jay

I was basically asking for an update since I was past the estimated 10 business days it would take to ship.
I will continue to report progress here and the other thread I posted to.

Update:  it took exactly 1 month to receive my order...
So, they do ship what you order but absolutely lack on customer service and keeping you in the loop...
They should add more statuses, things like your coins have been ordered by us, we expect to receive our order on such and such date... then begin stating your coin is here, we are packaging, then we ship etc.. etc...
if they could communicate more steps along the way and tell us where our order is with respect to the expected life cycle of the order, coinabul would skyrocket with satisfied customers... but in my opinion, they aren't run by folks who give a shit about customer service...

Still nothing from Coinabul on my order from March 14th.  Twice I've been told it will ship in the next couple of days to be disappointed with no follow up.  85 btc is a lot for me.
I would not order anything from them until you start seeing all the people that say there were scammed come back and say they finally got their metals.

Fucking shit I should have read this before I made a purchase on Coinabul.com. So the site is pretty much a scam?? I'm in the US.

This is where I'm at now, kicking myself in the ass for not doing a little more homework on these guys before pulling the trigger.

Well, it seems that the original site owner sold the site to some scammer or something? Anyway, I made order on 8th May, and they still haven't shipped it. I guess the site is just a scam, and it is best to forget it...

Edit: fixed, now they finally shipped the item with a tracking #. Guess I wasn't complaining enough :P

Edit: I'm not sure if they have really shipped anything.  It has only "shipment notice", I don't know what that means, but only that initial notice is registered... Seems that they just try to trick people into believing that something is shipped using this "shipment notice" thing.

Several Coinabul/Jay Shore/Coingenuity scam reports.

Clever, how the word Coingenuity looks like Integrity.

Have I mentioned lately that Jay Shore is a piece of shit?