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Yes. They allow the devs to hit the ground running regarding finances so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best, developing.

Yes. They allow the devs to hit the ground running regarding finances so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best, developing.

Yes. They allow the devs to hit the ground running regarding finances so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best, developing.

What a crock of shit.
Before you came here SHIT LOADS of dev's make coins with no Million dollar advance.
Further more what in the fuck are they "Developing" ?
NOTHING but 1,000's of pointless shitcoins traded on exchanges.
0 fucking innovation period .

Minecache, You are as usual a FRAUD !

You are only saying that to prop up your Ethereum scam your helping run too.

You guys keep *trying* to make excuses for ICO's and you have always failed miserably.
This topic is no different.

Based on the Poll results so far i think half of you are greedy morons.

I support them but they must be done correctly with adequate due dilligence. If you are interesting learning more about them http://icocountdown.com I only list the best ones.

What a crock of shit.
Before you came here SHIT LOADS of dev's make coins with no Million dollar advance.
Further more what in the fuck are they "Developing" ?
NOTHING but 1,000's of pointless shitcoins traded on exchanges.
0 fucking innovation period .

Minecache, You are as usual a FRAUD !

You are only saying that to prop up your Ethereum scam your helping run too.

You guys keep *trying* to make excuses for ICO's and you have always failed miserably.
This topic is no different.

Based on the Poll results so far i think half of you are greedy morons.

Yes, I believe in human rights.

Let the free market decide.

Under the correct conditions, I would invest in an ICO.

(quality, respected, experienced developers; a great idea/roadmap; a plan for how they will implement it; is it a realistic plan?; developers not anonymous; something I think may be valuable in the future; is there competition?; is it fairly distributed?; etc.)

I do not exactly know what goes on behind the scenes when a coin/token gets listed but you'll know that a team behind a platform knows what their doing because the maintained volume for their coins is always high right from the beginning.  A prime example of this is Ethereum.

It would be naive to think that the market activity will just come without some kind of manipulation going on to jump start trading.

It is obvious that the high volume are the insiders buying from themselves in order to control the market price.

The way this works is that if you flood the exchange with high bids and high asks, then the small volume of actually lower asks is insignificant and minor cost for the insider. For example let's say the insider is 99% of the volume (using Sybil identities on the exchange), then the 1% that wants to sell is an insignificant cost to the insider, because the manipulation of the price drives more speculator demand on the bid side than on the ask side.

So in this way, the insider is actually unloading tokens at higher and higher prices. This games goes on until the insiders have unloaded their tokens at nosebleed prices. Then it collapses.

In Ethereum's case, it was alleged by the Dao attacker that the insiders are using their tokens as margin to do margin trades to provide more upside price leverage manipulation. So first you use your tokens buying from yourself to pump up the price, then you use your ETH to short the ETH price, and start selling tokens rapidly to cause a crash in price. You cover your shorts, and repeat the process again driving the price up. But you don't crash the price too far, so as to keep the dream alive. Having very good marketing also helps.

This is why we often see a huge decline in the price after the initial ICO pump, as this enables the insiders to accumulate tokens very cheaply and then the upward price manipulation begins.

Note the insiders need to make sure they are the only large holders, so no one can compete with them and for example sell into their pump.

It seems if you don't do this manipulation, then your token will be scorned by speculators and your reputation as altcoin developers will be tarnished.

The developers if they are honest, will take their funding and continue to work hard. The market manipulators are going to come in and buy up any good coin and pump it. The only way to stop that would be for the developer (and/or the community) to hold the coins tight fisted, but then this creates a dead market such as Monero which has never seen more than 4X gain after the initial pump by rpietila (http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/).

So what can an honest developer do  ??? He has no choice but to let the speculators have what they want. The important thing is the developer is funded and able to drive the ecosystem to success. If so, then the downside price crash will be limited or at least a great buying opportunity. Fundamental development (coding) and marketing matters.

But alas, DEX is going to be scorned because the manipulators can't operate there. Or can they? Speculators will go where the (manipulated) volume is.

Wow! So manipulation or die in your opinion?

No

ICO = MSB https://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html (https://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html)

Now how many ICOs are also registered as an MSB?

Yes, I believe in human rights.

Let the free market decide.

Under the correct conditions, I would invest in an ICO.

(quality, respected, experienced developers; a great idea/roadmap; a plan for how they will implement it; is it a realistic plan?; developers not anonymous; something I think may be valuable in the future; is there competition?; is it fairly distributed?; etc.)

In a May 2005 speech, Greenspan stated: "Two years ago at this conference I argued that the growing array of derivatives and the related application of more-sophisticated methods for measuring and managing risks had been key factors underlying the remarkable resilience of the banking system, which had recently shrugged off severe shocks to the economy and the financial system. At the same time, I indicated some concerns about the risks associated with derivatives, including the risks posed by concentration in certain derivatives markets, notably the over-the-counter (OTC) markets for U.S. dollar interest rate options."[40]

Wow! So manipulation or die in your opinion?


I am thinking tokeweed is correct:


Speculators learn to play the game.

Nope, I'm neutral.  But that's reality.  It's all I'm saying.

I had sort of religious transformation of sorts and come out of my dogmatic cave to see the light of day.

1. When no whale is supporting the volume and price by manipulating with his tokens, then the price will decline and thus a whale will be able to accumulate low and then begin manipulating. So preventing manipulation is really difficult. Monero seems to have been able to do it, by selling "holier than thou" Jim Jones koolaid locking their supporters into a perpetually underperforming token but most other tokens aren't able to achieve this Zen masochism:

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/

Note XMR has good volume though. So it has apparently some savvy traders who employ leverage.

2. Thus we might as well as accept that manipulation is really just trading. When speculators play, they must understand the rules. And that is there are no rules preventing manipulation. Thus to be competitive, manipulation is part of the game.

3. A coin developer has the choice of letting someone else do the manipulation for him (e.g. Bobsurplus and destroy the token such as Bitbay), or do it themselves so as to more beneficially maximize the long-term value of the token and project.

Do you support projects that run ICOs? Do you think that's okay or a no go?

Do you support projects that run ICOs? Do you think that's okay or a no go?

I just support ICOs who has a escrow address and where I can see something new, but I think 95% are scam, specially Yobit ICOs (At least in the signature campaign Yobit pays so good hahahaha).

I support ICOs if the developers are trustworthy and know what to do with the money raised. There were many instances where the developers wasted the money and the coin was dead after less than a year.

Without any regulation in crypto, it is important for us to do our own research to find out on the prospects of the ICO.

No, Because mostly is pure SCAM.

I support ICOs if the developers are trustworthy and know what to do with the money raised. There were many instances where the developers wasted the money and the coin was dead after less than a year.

Without any regulation in crypto, it is important for us to do our own research to find out on the prospects of the ICO.

Lol, I was about to come in here and be blunt like this, but you beat me to the punch. I figure, if the asset were that awesome, we would have never heard about it because some company that sees its worth would have came and snapped it up. So the fact that they have to rely on the public for VC, instead of institutional VC, makes me feel some of this is simply too bleeding edge to be a sound investment.

We have to pay the developers. So ICO can be a way to set up the project initially. It might support the devlopement from scratch.

If the coin worth i to invest,I will jiont the ICO.