Do you support ICOs?

[Moneroman88]

Do you support projects that run ICOs? Do you think that's okay or a no go?

[Minecache]

Yes. They allow the devs to hit the ground running regarding finances so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best, developing.

[ICOcountdown.com]

I support them but they must be done correctly with adequate due dilligence. If you are interesting learning more about them http://icocountdown.com I only list the best ones.

[Moneroman88]

Yes. They allow the devs to hit the ground running regarding finances so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best, developing.

Monero is an example of a coin that was launched fairly without ICO and is one of the most developed cryptocurrencies available today. Raising millions of dollars in funding doesn't have to mean that worthwhile development is the result. Look at Ethereum and the DAO, raised millions, failed miserably.

[bathrobehero]

Translation: are you a clueless gambler eager to throw money at random people without any proof of delivery?

[TravelsAsia]

Instead of ICOs, we should see more approaches similar to NXT-Ardor. With Rise dropping below ICO price, we would hope this trend starts slowing down again.

[ArticMine]

No

ICO = MSB https://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

Now how many ICOs are also registered as an MSB?

[CoinHoarder]

Yes, I believe in human rights.

Let the free market decide.

Under the correct conditions, I would invest in an ICO.

(quality, respected, experienced developers; a great idea/roadmap; a plan for how they will implement it; is it a realistic plan?; developers not anonymous; something I think may be valuable in the future; is there competition?; is it fairly distributed?; etc.)

[antiscam2000]

Yes. They allow the devs to hit the ground running regarding finances so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best, developing.

Thanks for making me laugh

[Spoetnik]

Yes. They allow the devs to hit the ground running regarding finances so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best, developing.

What a crock of shit.
Before you came here SHIT LOADS of dev's make coins with no Million dollar advance.
Further more what in the fuck are they "Developing" ?
NOTHING but 1,000's of pointless shitcoins traded on exchanges.
0 fucking innovation period .

Minecache, You are as usual a FRAUD !

You are only saying that to prop up your Ethereum scam your helping run too.

You guys keep *trying* to make excuses for ICO's and you have always failed miserably.
This topic is no different.

Based on the Poll results so far i think half of you are greedy morons.

[From Above]

Yes. They allow the devs to hit the ground running regarding finances so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best, developing.

What a crock of shit.
Before you came here SHIT LOADS of dev's make coins with no Million dollar advance.
Further more what in the fuck are they "Developing" ?
NOTHING but 1,000's of pointless shitcoins traded on exchanges.
0 fucking innovation period .

Minecache, You are as usual a FRAUD !

You are only saying that to prop up your Ethereum scam your helping run too.

You guys keep *trying* to make excuses for ICO's and you have always failed miserably.
This topic is no different.

Based on the Poll results so far i think half of you are greedy morons.

Couldn't agree more with this post myself, Spoetnik hits the nail on teh head once again.

~CfA~

[Spoetnik]

I support them but they must be done correctly with adequate due dilligence. If you are interesting learning more about them http://icocountdown.com I only list the best ones.

That is god damn retarded.
..that is like saying as long as you run a Pyramid scheme correctly it's ok.

and thanks From Above  

[Minecache]

Yes. They allow the devs to hit the ground running regarding finances so that they can concentrate on doing what they do best, developing.

What a crock of shit.
Before you came here SHIT LOADS of dev's make coins with no Million dollar advance.
Further more what in the fuck are they "Developing" ?
NOTHING but 1,000's of pointless shitcoins traded on exchanges.
0 fucking innovation period .

Minecache, You are as usual a FRAUD !

You are only saying that to prop up your Ethereum scam your helping run too.

You guys keep *trying* to make excuses for ICO's and you have always failed miserably.
This topic is no different.

Based on the Poll results so far i think half of you are greedy morons.

It's not crock, and it's not shite. A gud number of ICOs are succeeding in bringing new technological advances and opportunities, and heck, even new industries are being born. None of that would be possible if we waited n years for coins to be 'mined'. Besides BTC had its own ICO of sorts. Only Satoshi et al mined the original coin offerings on the Bitcoin servers because no one else had the knowledge of what they were up to.

Anyway in summary the successful ICOs all investors should invest in are ETH and MAID.

[tokeweed]

Yes, I believe in human rights.

Let the free market decide.

This.  If you don't like ICO's in general, then just avoid it.  Simple.

Under the correct conditions, I would invest in an ICO.

(quality, respected, experienced developers; a great idea/roadmap; a plan for how they will implement it; is it a realistic plan?; developers not anonymous; something I think may be valuable in the future; is there competition?; is it fairly distributed?; etc.)

I have never bought an ICO.  I like waiting for them to get listed in an exchange then watch the price action and volume/liquidity.  I do not exactly know what goes on behind the scenes when a coin/token gets listed but you'll know that a team behind a platform knows what their doing because the maintained volume for their coins is always high right from the beginning.  A prime example of this is Ethereum.

It would be naive to think that the market activity will just come without some kind of manipulation going on to jump start trading.

[iamnotback]

I do not exactly know what goes on behind the scenes when a coin/token gets listed but you'll know that a team behind a platform knows what their doing because the maintained volume for their coins is always high right from the beginning.  A prime example of this is Ethereum.

It would be naive to think that the market activity will just come without some kind of manipulation going on to jump start trading.

Wow! So manipulation or die in your opinion?


I am thinking tokeweed is correct:

Thanks for the links and discussion.  I still can not for the life of me wrap my head around the "volume" of alt coins traded recently.  With no transparency into these exchanges, we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.  I'll put dollars to doughnuts there is more then meets the eye.

It is obvious that the high volume are the insiders buying from themselves in order to control the market price.

The way this works is that if you flood the exchange with high bids and high asks, then the small volume of actually lower asks is insignificant and minor cost for the insider. For example let's say the insider is 99% of the volume (using Sybil identities on the exchange), then the 1% that wants to sell is an insignificant cost to the insider, because the manipulation of the price drives more speculator demand on the bid side than on the ask side.

So in this way, the insider is actually unloading tokens at higher and higher prices. This games goes on until the insiders have unloaded their tokens at nosebleed prices. Then it collapses.

In Ethereum's case, it was alleged by the Dao attacker that the insiders are using their tokens as margin to do margin trades to provide more upside price leverage manipulation. So first you use your tokens buying from yourself to pump up the price, then you use your ETH to short the ETH price, and start selling tokens rapidly to cause a crash in price. You cover your shorts, and repeat the process again driving the price up. But you don't crash the price too far, so as to keep the dream alive. Having very good marketing also helps.

This is why we often see a huge decline in the price after the initial ICO pump, as this enables the insiders to accumulate tokens very cheaply and then the upward price manipulation begins.

Note the insiders need to make sure they are the only large holders, so no one can compete with them and for example sell into their pump.

It seems if you don't do this manipulation, then your token will be scorned by speculators and your reputation as altcoin developers will be tarnished.

The developers if they are honest, will take their funding and continue to work hard. The market manipulators are going to come in and buy up any good coin and pump it. The only way to stop that would be for the developer (and/or the community) to hold the coins tight fisted, but then this creates a dead market such as Monero which has never seen more than 4X gain after the initial pump by rpietila.

So what can an honest developer do  He has no choice but to let the speculators have what they want. The important thing is the developer is funded and able to drive the ecosystem to success. If so, then the downside price crash will be limited or at least a great buying opportunity. Fundamental development (coding) and marketing matters.

But alas, DEX is going to be scorned because the manipulators can't operate there. Or can they? Speculators will go where the (manipulated) volume is.

Speculators learn to play the game.

[tokeweed]

I do not exactly know what goes on behind the scenes when a coin/token gets listed but you'll know that a team behind a platform knows what their doing because the maintained volume for their coins is always high right from the beginning.  A prime example of this is Ethereum.

It would be naive to think that the market activity will just come without some kind of manipulation going on to jump start trading.

Wow! So manipulation or die in your opinion?

Nope, I'm neutral.  But that's reality.  It's all I'm saying.

[nyteo]

Yes I support ICO's, ICO CHESSCOIN i support, good future

[Spoetnik]

No

ICO = MSB https://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

Now how many ICOs are also registered as an MSB?

How many give you [NEWS] ICO Coin Quarterly Reports

They all like...... ojhhhhhhhhh day like STOOOOOOCKZ

..they whine and caw like crows.. bacaaaw bcaaaw BAAACAWWWWWWW !

Oh yeah ? How so Kidiots ?
Is there any aspect at all that is regulated LIKE STOCKS ?
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope
Nothing but 1 billion in REAL MONEY stolen from us all AND NO ARRESTS !
..unlike Berni Madoff & Martha Stewart.

You all need to get off your cocky stubborn mouthy ass's and quit being Investarded
and learn about scams online.. DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
Before spending one cottoon pickin' penny of REAL MONEY on Kriptoze
go... read.. tardlets.
Read about the various types of scams and how to detect them.
Read testimonials from people who got lured into them.
Funny how we have legions of snotty idiots here who always think they are smart
and it's always someone else getting scammed etc
Well what about all the other scams in life that have gone on for ages ?
A LOT of people have been takin' in by a whole slew of scam types.

Unless you have already gone to Google and typed in Pyramid Scheme and done an hour of reading
then shut your fucking mouth about what is or is NOT a scam.. I don't want to hear it.
You know squat and should ZIP IT !
Don't strut around jiggling your little dick holster at us all with your "opinions" Investards.
Get educated profiteer dregs.
And while your at it type this in Google smart fuckers.. "define: currency"

75% of you would not know what a scam was even if you went and took out more REAL money
from your bank account to double down on your scam coin losses by buying moar cheep coinz
nom nom nom
What happens to victims of a coin pyramid scheme ?
They end up taking a loss.. or being bag holders and hanging out here defending their scam.
EXACTLY like classic Pyramid scam victims IRL.
You all say the same type of shit and are too dumb to even know it.. even it it's told to you.

[Spoetnik]

Yes, I believe in human rights.

Let the free market decide.

Under the correct conditions, I would invest in an ICO.

(quality, respected, experienced developers; a great idea/roadmap; a plan for how they will implement it; is it a realistic plan?; developers not anonymous; something I think may be valuable in the future; is there competition?; is it fairly distributed?; etc.)

Ok Greenspan..

(you said EXACTLY what he did years & years ago)

NOW ?

posted 9 hrs ago..
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-27/greenspan-warns-crisis-imminent-he-urges-return-gold-standard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenspan

In a May 2005 speech, Greenspan stated: "Two years ago at this conference I argued that the growing array of derivatives and the related application of more-sophisticated methods for measuring and managing risks had been key factors underlying the remarkable resilience of the banking system, which had recently shrugged off severe shocks to the economy and the financial system. At the same time, I indicated some concerns about the risks associated with derivatives, including the risks posed by concentration in certain derivatives markets, notably the over-the-counter (OTC) markets for U.S. dollar interest rate options."[40]

Alan Greenspan owes America an apology

So.. my smug little opinionated Investards Cryptoz expertz
Who was it that chanted FREE MARKET... BEFORE the housing crash ?
greeeeeeenspaaaaaan

He insisted endlessly for ages as members of the Federal Reserve warned him..
That some regulations need to be put in place to STOP THE DERIVATIVES bullshit.
He said the "market" would not let things get that bad and destroy it's self.
And that is precisely what DID happen !

FREE MARKET = Recession + Foreclosed Housing + Inflation and Economies Collapsing etc etc

Later he had no choice but to frantically try and band-aid the issue as the planet crashed into a recession from hell.
He had no choice but to admit he was wrong !
The mighty cocky "money god" left his chair-position with his tail between his legs a fucking retarded-failure !

Later i seen a guy on CNN news bragging he made 1 billion in profit over night..
he said it was soooooo easy !
How ?
He laughed he said ..HARD !
When they announced the Bail outs.
Why ?
Why do you hand out bail-outs ?
Because your drowning and you fucked up bad !
So the CNN guy said he did what others did..
which was crash the market with GREEDY bad behavior then collect the bail-out money.

He said it was simple and easy and he laughed and made a billion dollars.
All he had was a tiny little investment firm.. his example was 1 of many !

Think about it..
You are running a greedy immoral corrupt market destined for failure..
and the US govt says hey guys a collapse is coming NOW ..so stop what your doing (profiting)

or..

We will bail you out (if you keep on doing it)

So all the greedy dicks poured on the scammy behavior crashing the markets..
while making a fortune and waiting for the bail-out's as -PROMISED-

THEN.. the recession.

Look around crypto see any "Free Market" similarities ? ROFL
Only this time smart ass's who is going to bail you out ?

Sadly i think 75% of you are so stupid & greedy you will read what i said here
..believe it
Then see it as a "How To" and leave motivated to do it all more in Crypto.
Liek omg guys we can makez 1 billion ? lets scma hooooray @@@ )) !!!

Just consider my words here as an advertisement for scammy ass dipshit profiteer behavior  

[iamnotback]

I do not exactly know what goes on behind the scenes when a coin/token gets listed but you'll know that a team behind a platform knows what their doing because the maintained volume for their coins is always high right from the beginning.  A prime example of this is Ethereum.

It would be naive to think that the market activity will just come without some kind of manipulation going on to jump start trading.

Wow! So manipulation or die in your opinion?


I am thinking tokeweed is correct:

Thanks for the links and discussion.  I still can not for the life of me wrap my head around the "volume" of alt coins traded recently.  With no transparency into these exchanges, we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.  I'll put dollars to doughnuts there is more then meets the eye.

It is obvious that the high volume are the insiders buying from themselves in order to control the market price.

The way this works is that if you flood the exchange with high bids and high asks, then the small volume of actually lower asks is insignificant and minor cost for the insider. For example let's say the insider is 99% of the volume (using Sybil identities on the exchange), then the 1% that wants to sell is an insignificant cost to the insider, because the manipulation of the price drives more speculator demand on the bid side than on the ask side.

So in this way, the insider is actually unloading tokens at higher and higher prices. This games goes on until the insiders have unloaded their tokens at nosebleed prices. Then it collapses.

In Ethereum's case, it was alleged by the Dao attacker that the insiders are using their tokens as margin to do margin trades to provide more upside price leverage manipulation. So first you use your tokens buying from yourself to pump up the price, then you use your ETH to short the ETH price, and start selling tokens rapidly to cause a crash in price. You cover your shorts, and repeat the process again driving the price up. But you don't crash the price too far, so as to keep the dream alive. Having very good marketing also helps.

This is why we often see a huge decline in the price after the initial ICO pump, as this enables the insiders to accumulate tokens very cheaply and then the upward price manipulation begins.

Note the insiders need to make sure they are the only large holders, so no one can compete with them and for example sell into their pump.

It seems if you don't do this manipulation, then your token will be scorned by speculators and your reputation as altcoin developers will be tarnished.

The developers if they are honest, will take their funding and continue to work hard. The market manipulators are going to come in and buy up any good coin and pump it. The only way to stop that would be for the developer (and/or the community) to hold the coins tight fisted, but then this creates a dead market such as Monero which has never seen more than 4X gain after the initial pump by rpietila.

So what can an honest developer do   He has no choice but to let the speculators have what they want. The important thing is the developer is funded and able to drive the ecosystem to success. If so, then the downside price crash will be limited or at least a great buying opportunity. Fundamental development (coding) and marketing matters.

But alas, DEX is going to be scorned because the manipulators can't operate there. Or can they? Speculators will go where the (manipulated) volume is.

Speculators learn to play the game.

I do not exactly know what goes on behind the scenes when a coin/token gets listed but you'll know that a team behind a platform knows what their doing because the maintained volume for their coins is always high right from the beginning.  A prime example of this is Ethereum.

It would be naive to think that the market activity will just come without some kind of manipulation going on to jump start trading.

Wow! So manipulation or die in your opinion?

Nope, I'm neutral.  But that's reality.  It's all I'm saying.

I had sort of religious transformation of sorts and come out of my dogmatic cave to see the light of day.

1. When no whale is supporting the volume and price by manipulating with his tokens, then the price will decline and thus a whale will be able to accumulate low and then begin manipulating. So preventing manipulation is really difficult. Monero seems to have been able to do it, by selling "holier than thou" Jim Jones koolaid locking their supporters into a perpetually underperforming token but most other tokens aren't able to achieve this Zen masochism:

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/

Note XMR has good volume though. So it has apparently some savvy traders who employ leverage.

2. Thus we might as well as accept that manipulation is really just trading. When speculators play, they must understand the rules. And that is there are no rules preventing manipulation. Thus to be competitive, manipulation is part of the game.

3. A coin developer has the choice of letting someone else do the manipulation for him (e.g. Bobsurplus and destroy the token such as Bitbay), or do it themselves so as to more beneficially maximize the long-term value of the token and project.