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Here's the route in which ETC will surpass ETH if it does:

It's like a positive feedback loop. It could bring down ETH and replace it with ETC.

So you're the average ETH holder for the technology. You want to use or see the use of smart contracts in the future or whatever. Now ETH moves sideways, but ETC keeps increasing in both hash and market cap everyday. Now you get nervous over holding ETH even if it is moving sideways since ETC is growing rapidly and you can tell it is getting more attention than ETH. The logical thing to do is to sell your ETH and buy ETC at some benchmark you've set for yourself. I bought it right away out of ideological reasons. Others might have a certain price or like a % out of ETH cap, and so fourth... but the thing is that ETC might actually take down ETH based on this argument I lay out for you all.

Because as time progresses and ETC price increases more and more will sell their ETH in favor for ETC causing ETC to appreciate in price even more. The thing is that ETH doesn't necessarily need to go up or down for ETC to succeed but it seems likely it could go down some in the future should this scenario play out which I think it will.

And if the market cap and userbase of ETC exceed ETH at some point then every developer and business will begin to focus on ETC instead.. that's just business. So the argument about dapps is not really a concern of mine.

They take this fork and kill pos and make it a pow coined one and all the rest of the gpu miners will move over imho

You are too optimistic. It could happen but the ETH foundation will not give up without a fight. I am sure they will try to destroy ETC and prevent the original coin from taking over. Remember they have lots of ETC too.

The foundation is in a rough spot for that. If they attack ETC it will make them look really bad and possibly make more people support ETC. Flat out the ETH devs screwed up pushing this sloppy fork after pumping the DAO. The ETH sub reddit is funny...they are all freaking out. I think ETC is here to stay and will just keep getting stronger.

I agree with the sentiment on POW for ETC.  If they fix the diff bomb and keep POW then the mass migration of the miners will happen.  It would shift the landscape pretty dramatically in favor of ETC.  I hope we start to hear a plan along those lines in the coming weeks.  It really will become an ETHxit if this happens.

You are right. The market RULES. If the market decides ETC is the real blockchain, the business will follow and the developers will as well.

Just enjoy speculating on borrowed time . The dao bug abuser is still not able to dump his shit , a few more weeks and you will notice something most likely :)

Why would they do that? Every ETH holder was essentially offered a stock split or a free hedge of sorts. And the foundation probably hold similar amounts of ETC as they do ETH. Maybe some sleuth can look into that and get back to this thread? I might have some time tomorrow to get to the bottom of it.. not home right now. I think it's a couple hours work to get rough estimates. These estimates should include decent sources since I have seen a lot of people just throw out their opinions when we have a blockchain to verify.


Anyway people seem to think that ETH and it's developers always needs to support ETH without exceptions. But remember ETC is the unforked Ethereum. And remember that there are no real work contracts in place as far as I know for developers to give ETH their undivided attention for life. If ETC becomes a larger network than ETH then sure I could see Vitalik stepping down or going down by the ship just because of how aggressive the crowd has gotten. But the rest of the developers really have no reason to continue to put ETH first unless they've sold all their ETC. And the dapps will go where business is best anything else is just bad entrepreneurship.

I already laid out the math on this FUD. It will be a non issue if ETC dethrones ETH. Besides needing to sell some 3% of stolen ETC how would you do that? My bet is that it would be exactly like a whale selling 3% of ether just a lot harder to do as you need to go via exchanges. Most likely it is a tedious process and not at all a one time dump right into buy orders as some seem to believe.

The ETH foundation stated that they would do what ever the community wanted. If over the next few weeks it's demonstrated that ETC is the most popular chain why wouldn't they support it? They have equal amounts of ETH/ETC (not including DAO refund), on one chain they had their DAO ETH returned to them, they continue the facade of a neutral stance on the fork and maintain the principle/purposes of using a blockchain (instead of a centralized server). It sounds like a satisfactory solution for them.

Ultimately it's going to depend on business or users of the technology. You can't sell people on the untouchable blockchain then tamper with it and expect people to take you seriously. Now people have a choice, I'm willing to wager that people side with whichever one earns their trust. Integrity is paramount, no matter what eth does they have lost a significant amount of the most important asset. I'm sure they know that and are taking their time to figure out their next move. At the same time the eth supporters are blaming blockchain extremists, old school btc folks, those rascal scammers over at etc that gave them free money, and magical parrots lol!

Let's think about it: They bail out themselves with a hard-fork. Than the other chain, ETC, wins. And they announce they will support it and leave ETH? Or do they say they support both? And do they sell their holdings before the announcement or after?

The last question is the most important one. Their holdings on ETH will become worthless over time if they support ETC. No doubt about that.

If you think about it, it's a pretty unsolvable problem. If they should cash out to support ETC they are done and most likely that would not end well regarding legal consequences. If they announce it without cashing out - they will lose more than they've bailed out.

I see no way here. And besides that: The loss of credibility is already hard but would be tremendous.

Delusional much ? BTC price is already crashing because 1-2 BTC whales keep pumping their BTC into abandoned chain. With that much amount of money pumped et classic should have been already 5$+ but the dumping support is too strong. If they continue this way, BTC will crash to ~500$ while ETC will still be below 3-3.5$ .

What are you even talking about here? Let's break it down. First of all you need to prove this is the work of 1-2 whales else you have zero legitimacy.


Secondly you need to tell us how somebody buying a coin with Bitcoin causes Bitcoin to drop.

Alice buys Xcoin from Bob with Ycoin so Alice receives Xcoin and Bob receives Ycoin. Alice no longer has Ycoin and Bob no longer has Xcoin. Since Alice spent her Ycoin to get Xcoin, Bobs Ycoin itself is now worth less as a result of this transaction? How did you come to this conclusion?


The bitcoin hasn't been sold for fiat simply traded for another currency where the seller now owns the bitcoin.

What would be the legal consequences? To my knowledge there is no binding contract that state ETH developers should develop on ETH for life. Or are you saying that there will be no legal consequences for the developers for as long as ETH is increasing in price? That's not how law works although market crashes usually brings one thing or the other to light.

And well if ETC becomes larger by useful metrics it's not 'unsolvable' at all. I think Vitalik would step down in that case or continue on ETH but for the rest I am not sure if ETC community would allow a "ETC Foundation" despite all the opportunists that have come about these last couple days of ETC.

The loss of credibility I agree with you on but it could be a non issue given that I doubt many ETH developers and contributors would be well received by ETC community since they lost credibility by HF. If it's above ETH new contributors will be found and new structures will be set. Seems likely it could become similar to Bitcoins development process. Some attack that process but evidently it is better than ETH approach.

Big business backs ETH so you may as well quit deluding yourself and sell that ETC criminal coin bags. Example in case, Microsoft confirmed its backing to ETH today for BaaS.

Just theDAO could be a case for the SEC. That's not my opinion it's said here:

"However, based upon the structure of The DAO, it is foreseeable that the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) would view its tokens purchased by investors as a security or investment contract, subject to its jurisdiction.

The voting system implemented for The DAO is likewise problematic due to its mixed incentives and propensity to depress the value of ETH and its own tokens. Because investment in The DAO is laden with risk and seems to implicate SEC jurisdiction, The DAO may attract regulatory attention.

(...)

The sale of DAO tokens by The DAO in exchange for ETH carries all of the hallmarks of an investment contract or security, and under this analysis, the SEC could assume jurisdiction over The DAO. The DAO presents novel legal issues, both with respect to its ability to interact with the legal system, and as to the potential regulatory ramifications of investing in a new novel structure."
http://www.coindesk.com/the-law-of-the-dao/

We have add to this that a lot of the funds came from Ethereum-members.

And if we think about a scenario that there was...

1. TheDAO
2. A hack (and some believe it could have been an insider)
3. A hard fork to bail-out

...it's already interesting.

If then those who bailed themselves out dump their ETH, including premine, to join ETC - not sure how that would look. I'm not a lawyer, but this game already created some collateral damage (Investors and most likely also exchanges). To dump on their Investors to leave ETH and join ETC would lead into a lot of lawsuits. But that won't happen because they won't quiet ETH to get over to ETC.
 




Yes, we agree here. It's possible but not very likely that ETH-Dev's go to ETC. Maybe one or two but not sure. Not VB or the foundation.

And under the line, I believe that both have not that much chance in longterm. For the next weeks or months it will be a race between both and it will be about hashrate and the markets. But if we speak about business, customers - I don't believe that Ethereum will be used widely.

Always the people that stand to lose that defend things like this to the end. Those are called bagholders.

Looks like a great trading opportunity. Criminals and Purists are driving it up but the ultimate price should be $0 and soon.

With that ridiculous rhetoric you sound like a Ethereum maximalist. Which is very confusing because ETC is the real ETH chain and you're on a fork.

If Microsoft is backing ethereum, then it's better to still hold on to some coins. Microsoft is the big daddy of all the whales in the crypto-market  :-\

Microsoft backs like a lot of coins. Can't be bothered to find a list on how many but I'm sure they will "back" ETC as well.

you mean azure? any old shitcoin can get on azure. that's really not much of an achievement. coins I've never heard of are on there.

Major legal issues if ETH foundation starts cashing in ETC. They are already in the shit so they have to be very careful what they do. Real world law is watching.

All over ETH subreddit the firsts days was how the price of ETC will fall to 0$ but now all i see is panic !

Yes, I agree.

ETC would not surpass ETH, because the foundation could give up ETH project and set up a total new project by the funds from selling their total ETC out.

I call this haiku "Sorry For Your Loss."

https://i.imgur.com/Ks2udH2.jpg

The only coins im holding is Bitcoin & ETH , ofc im enjoying ETC hype! reminds me the old days with Doge !  8)

confused?

if ethereum classic wins this fork .does not ethereum all just follow the winning fork? or am I missing something here and it is now a stand alone coin on its own from now
on ..ether classic that is

(on sidelines watching own no ether)

They will be two different coins competing for the forseable future. Probably years. Divided by strong ideological differences.

I agree with u. Azure hype was over, easy to list there. Nothing new! And when eth was first listed on azure, it was pumped over 0.01+, and other coins like syscoin, viacoin on azure, there were pumps too. Now the azure trick is over.

If you want to know the future of the Ethereum Classic, better read:
https://blog.bity.com/2016/08/13/the-white-hats-and-dao-wars-behind-the-scenes/

If any shitcoinage can get on Azure then why isn't the ETC criminal coin. Oh yea because MS knows it's a criminal coin made purely to cash out the DAO attacker his stolen money.

It must have taken a lot of time to compile such a list of excuses :)

"now that we've been taken stealing the ETC coins and trying to convert them, after all, we're going to do what we explained was impossible and why we went to exchanges in the first place: returning the ETC to the DAO holders".

Funny that all the explanations of why it was necessary to convert ETC to ETH (and do a big dump that way on ETC) suddenly are gone like smoke, and why it was formerly considered impossible to give back the ETC is now possible.

The only true thing here is that the market manipulation that happened through this manoeuvre was, as they explained, kept secret.  Because of course, nobody ever profited from it I bet  ;D

Do not focus on the Bity guy and his excuses. That is what he wants us to do. It is smoke and mirrors. All that article is doing is trying to cover the tracks of Alex and the Ethereum foundation and their connection to the white hat hackers.

I call on the Merkle and others to investigate the situation more closely. Thank you.

funny you say this 13 days ago and ethereum foundation has been attacking ETC ever since and were actually caught doing it too ETH Foundation was basically caught trading stolen coins in exchanges (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1583652.0).

now lets see how much this can actually affect the balance of things.

p.s. it seems like they are really freaked out and don't even know what to do!

@Red-Apple, they do not know exactly what to do. Ever since the attacker has screwed with their pet project "the DAO" they have been in panic ever since. They decided to do a fork, and then had an undesired outcome. Now ETC is in the wild and have no idea to kill the people's interest in it. They thought a sustained, coordinated dump of all ETC coins they have would do it. But the exchanges will not allow it. That is blatant market manipulation. The Ethereum foundation, those are the ones with the criminal minds and with the criminal intent. No sane business man will want to make a deal with them.

I don't have any etherium of any flavor..but out of curiosity...a friend is into this and currently mining ETC and mentioned it MAY stay (this fork) a POW coin and move its own way.

To tell the truth ...imho (I know zip just saying) that could move a lot of folk to ETC that are miners......in that home miners are the best 'cheerleaders' of any coin I know of

anyway is this true/a rumor ..the fact that the fork ETC MAY stay POW

if so I may build a rig for fun....was not gonna bother if they were gonna go POS coin before the fork in 4 months or so

(toys toys) anyway my motivation for asking (like to mine crap) :)

I know you don't that's why you say Etherium not Ethereum.

PoW seems likely. A PoW/PoS hybrid has also been suggested https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/716.pdf both being discussed. I haven't heard many arguing in favor for Casper but they could be the silent majority considering the fact that all ETC come from ETH holders.

Agree, so many shit coins on microsoft Azure, they are just using microsoft brand to pump their coins, I won't blame them though we investors to benefit from this pump best example is ETH. The issue I want to raise is why are people assuming that miners will switch to ETC when ETH move to proof of stake, when there are so many good altcoins to mine for example dash, expense.

Easy to.mine, still has hype, the possibility of parity, and superior demand.

It is easier to mine the Expanse and Shift than the ETC. I do not think there will be parity unless it will withstand the dump of the hackers.