Bitcoin Forum

After playing a slot game I tried to withdraw my winnings and they said cause a bug in the game they will not allow me to withdraw the money and they remove it from my balance.

Here is the detailed story:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=486491.msg15917069#msg15917069

A user in bitcointalk said that there are similar cases around.

It is a common ponzi behavior, in this case the are mostly cover with the always favorable casino probabilities but when someone win more than what he deposited they invent any excuse and remove that winnings from the balance.

I am sorry for your lose and looks like the betchain is not replying you again.
Maybe they can be fix soon just wait more time.. maybe they can give what you want..

That's the issue with these people when you're losing they are quick to deduct your money and be happy about it but reverse is the case when all odds are broken and a jackpot is won... Sorry for your loss @op but really if they have presence on this forum something must be done... It could be annoying..

Thank Bitcoinsummoner and olubams for your words.

I almost lost the hopes in recovering that money, but at least I would prevent someone fall in the same scam.

There are a lot of excellent bitcoin casinos with true online support, immediate cashouts, and realistic bonus that they will pay. Now I know the truth behind the only bitcoin casino with 200% deposit bonus.

you must fight for this OP. i read the conversation and i think the error is from betchain. they are obviously stole your profit and giving the reason that there game is down after you made a profit. You already have the profit in your balance and i think that is clearly yours. the DT must see this and betchain must pay.

This is the year of the scams, it seems.

So sorry to hear that.
Indeed this might be scam. I do not trust any jackpot that offers so much bonus deposit.

0.19045000 BTC  They claimed it is betsoft issue, I think it is a tiny money for a casino, they should compensate you.

too many issues with jackpot and high win :(

They don't wanna pay jackpot, that's why more and more scams, disappointed with slot market.

Hi Ale,

This was reported to us by our 3rd party game provider. The game company advised us of the issue and disabled the game for now.
A balance remains in your account since your withdrawal, which you may play or withdraw. You didn't lose any money, your withdrawal amount was kept in your account.
Please email support@betchain.com with any questions.
Best,
Brian

Brian,
now you are saying I a am a layer or you have a bug in your casino balance module.

Here it goes my balance:

August 04, 2016 07:35   Discarded    Cashout   0.19045000 BTC
August 03, 2016 06:36   Accepted    Cashout   0.09000000 BTC
August 02, 2016 18:04   Discarded    Cashout   0.28045000 BTC
July 31, 2016 17:56   Accepted    Deposit   0.02250000 BTC
July 31, 2016 16:07   Accepted    Deposit   0.07700000 BTC

My actual final balance is: 0.0095 btc.

Instead, it should be 0.19045 BTC.

What happened with the difference?




Hi Ale,

Your 1st deposit of 0.07700000 BTC was made on July 31, 2016 at 16:07 UTC and your 2nd and final deposit of 0.02250000 BTC was made on July 31, 2016 at 17:56 UTC. Your deposit total is 0.0995 BTC. You cashed out 0.09000000 BTC on August 03, 2016 at 06:36 UTC. Your remaining balance of 0.00950000 BTC is available in your account to withdraw or play, whichever you choose. Your withdrawal and your remaining balance equals 0.0995 BTC which is the same as your deposit amount.
As I informed you before, the game Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde was reported by the game provider to have an issue and it was disabled. The winnings from the game (the only game you played) were removed from your balance but your deposit amount remained.
Please let me know at support@betchain.com if you have further questions.
Best,
Brian

Betchain,
you don't win nothing reposting the message I linked in the first post.
Everybody had read that and everybody have the same opinion about you stole my winnings.

He said it is 3rd party issue, it is betsoft, betsoft denied pay jackpot before, bad history they had.

Betchain is responsible for how players are treated at Betchain.

Betsoft refuses to explain themselves to anyone for any reason.
Betsoft refuses to communicate with players.
Betsoft doesn't mind when you blame them because there's nothing a player do that Betsoft can't ignore.

"After you won, someone else told us there was a issue and not to pay you" is not a valid reason to not pay a player.

Unless the player altered the code or "hacked" the game somehow, there is no valid reason to deny him his winnings from a slot machine after the fact.  If the game is fucked up somehow and paid him more than it should of, lucky him.  Fix it before the next guy plays.  If its fucked up and pays him less, he would never even know.

By allowing casinos to get away with not paying a player by blaming a silent faceless company, we're effectively allowing any casino the option to not pay out for any reason they want without consequence.

PS: Don't bother mentioning "it would happen at any other casino".  That's not an excuse.

We appreciate all of your comments. We pay out hundreds of Bitcoins a month in legit winnings. I apologize for your disappointment. Your deposit amount was left in your balance for you to play or withdraw, whichever you prefer.

Thank you very much! The deposit amount was left in the players account. We do mention in our Terms and Conditions about bets being voided in the malfunction of the game. There was enough evidence from our programmers to assure us there were a few players whose winnings in the game were not "accidental".
Again, I really appreciate your understanding and support!

Why do you keep mentioning the fact that you didn't take his deposit?


Betchain,  You have to understand when you seize money and give a vague explanation involving a company that refuses to communicate with players you give every other casino reason to do the same thing.

You are responsible for the software you provide to your players as far as a player is concerned.  Nobody else.

Did he somehow hack your game somehow? 

Or did someone else's accident give him an edge?

Who are your programmers?  Do you mean Betsoft?

OP, lets just have the full story. 

Hi,
We didn't seize any money. The player kept his deposit amount. The winnings gained from a game malfunction are voided, as stated in our Terms and Conditions. The game was disabled. Again, we pay hundreds of Bitcoins every month to legitimate winners.

So, it means that we had better not play Betsoft games any more? Damn the winnings will be forfeited if I win. How ridiculous!!!!!!!!! 

This is the only BetSoft game we have had to disable in the over 2 years that I have been with the casino. You are safe playing our games.

If you disable this game, how can he play this games? And at least you should pay some compensations for him. It is negative for your site.

Hi,
The game was disabled after the issue was reported. The player lost no money, as his deposit amount remained. We follow the advice of our programmers and our 3rd party game providers and they advised to disable the game and void the winnings from this particular game on that particular day.

I find this is very fishy, why 3rd party-betsoft disable the game and void the winnings? And reasons??

you must not void the winning because the user already win the money and to his balance. Your gambling site have the technical problem while the game is still running. and i think that is your mistake and OP has no idea on what happening. He just playing and win the prize. He still loss because he already expected his winning. i feel the what OP feels right now. you might give him a compensation for that so that you will be fair. Just saying

Did BetSoft explain why the game malfunctioned and what that malfunction was?
If proof can be shown by BetSoft it would make these situations so much easier for everyone involved.

In this case there is not a lot of btc involved but if this was to happen on a multiple bitcoin win then BetSoft could potentially find themselves in a courtroom to explain what the problem was that lead them to make such a decision.

Yes, I think they need to compensate him for that money, 0.19 btc is small for a casino, it is absurd to deny the winnings.

Hi,

Thank you. Apparently the issue was specifically related to our 200% Welcome Bonus and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. The players lost their Welcome Bonus (shown from their wagering balance), but due to a glitch in this particular game, on this particular day, the player could make a second deposit and then collect the bonus features. I am sorry if Ale was not involved in this group who targeted us on July 31st, however, we had to disable the game for everyone and remove the winnings gained from a Welcome Bonus tied with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. As I mentioned earlier, I haven't seen anything like this in the over 2 years I have been with BetChain.

Hi.  

Were starting to see a pattern with Betsoft casinos in case you haven't noticed.

So, is Betsoft running the show here?  What would you do if Betcoin told you to do something you thought was unethical?  

Or is this all Betchain part of the software package the right to blame Betsoft whenever there's a problem or you don't want to pay a player.  

When a player wins money at a casino it becomes their money.  You can't just take it from them if they've done nothing wrong without your reputation suffering.  
If players don't stand up to this kind of behavior, it will happen more and more.

What do you say to players when they ask for their money back because they made an accident that resulted in them losing their money?
How would you feel if they could just take it back because another person told them it was ok.  But you can't talk to that person.


Edit:


Ok, that's a little better.  I think you should explain yourself right away since Betsoft wont explain themselves.
I think you should get the details though.

Betsoft sucks now, it was famous with vivid slots, but now they are not good any more, since the deny of big jackpot.

Op, do you get the compensation? Since so many guys help you to ask for it, you deserve the money.

Ok so this is good now we have an explanation as to what went wrong and BetSoft would easily be able to provide logs to back up their claim, i would imagine that BetChain would also have similar logs available if needed.

If the player had to make a second deposit for this glitch to take place then they should have known that something was up when receiving more than 1 bonus, on saying that I can also understand how one can get caught up in the moment and it may have been an honest mistake trying to spend the bonus twice.

Anyway this should not be hard to get proof of,
@BetChain can you post any logs?

Good point, more logs must be evidences. Or it is unfair to OP's earnings. At least some compensations to him.

Still I didn't receive any compensation from them.

It is incredible how they are ignoring the same point of view of everyone.

Clearly they are in such very bad financial situation that even can't pay 0.19 btc to keep a good reputation.

Well, at least there is a lot of people advised.

Thank users for your support.

Hi,
Thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to be a part of this amazing community.

I appreciate that people are just trying to find out what happened.

We know we are not a scam but we realize there are some dodgy places out there and we appreciate your trust in us and as well as your concerns.

So, as far as the logs go. We have a record of deposits and bonuses. The game logs are provided by Betsoft. It is a lot of data as well as many different screenshots and pages of info. What do you guys think would be the most effective things we could post? We are happy to provide whatever we can to help people understand what happened.

Thanks!

Post the logs minus any information that could be used to identify the player.

Also post terms and/or conditions that user violated.

No logs from betchain.

As I explained in the other thread, I deposited a second time, after losing every money from the first deposit even the bonus.
So with the second deposit I won I tried to withdraw that money.

Can you fill in the blanks and explain what happened?  (It seems like you're intentionally leaving out the important part of the story)

I deposited ____ bitcoin and received a ___% bonus.

I lost my deposit and bonus and then made another deposit of ____ bitcoin.



After your second deposit, did you quickly hit the bonus from collecting all those potion things with your previous deposit and then cashout?

Betchain will probably claim you violated this rule:



I'm not sure how the game works, they might be right.  I know there's something about collecting potions for freespins.

If you had the option to activate the bonus and chose to wait till you emptied balance to trigger bonus with fresh deposit and no playthrough, they should confiscate the winnings.

If you made progress towards bonus trigger, but went broke before you had the option to activate bonus, then made another deposit and completed your goal, you played by the rules and they should pay you.

Could you show us the other thread link? I can't understand what you say, if i were you, lost first deposit, I would never deposit 2nd time.

I think the link he is mentioning is the one listed in the OP, looks like thays where the story got its start, he probably just started this one to have an individual thread.

Guys

We understand that this can be frustrating.
And I want to point out that there was more than one player affected by this at more than just our casino.
It's not that we can't afford to pay the 0.19 but then we would want to pay all players that were affected.
And unfortunately this included a group of people that knew about the bug and took advantage of it at multiple brands intentionally.
The last thing we want to do is try and determine people's motivation.

No one lost any money or deposits.
Only the extra bonus that they weren't expecting or eligible for was removed.
It clearly stated in our (and almost all casino) terms that winnings due to software errors are to be decided by the casino/provider.
If anyone was to lose money due to an error that is a different situation.

We are ultimately a client of BetSoft and were also affected by this glitch.
Just look at this thread...
Someone raised the point of getting them to say something here.
We've reached out to see if they would be willing.

In terms of logs.
I'll be frank. Here is my concern.
If we provide screenshots with identifying info removed, then people here might say that doesn't prove anything.
Ultimately it's going to be captures showing a deposit, bonus and a bet outcome.
There's nowhere on the screenshot that specifically says "error".
We will provide everything we can to try and resolve this but I'm not going to start pasting screen after screen if it isn't going to achieve anything.

We have so many happy customers and positive comments on this and other forums.
And have paid out so many winnings since this happened.
And other people that were affected by this understood and have continued playing as normal.
This is not the first time something like this has ever happened at an online casino and there are many years of precedent for players.
As much as we don't like it when players have a bad experience (even if it wasn't due to us), this thread seems to have been turned more into trolling by some people than trying to actually understand.

So I want to separate.
For anyone that wants to understand or try us out in any way, please we are here to help and you are welcome.
If your aim is simply to create negative publicity then I'm sorry but we will never be able to satisfy you.

Please excuse me if I sound harsh but this forum community has so much more to offer than continuing this discussion in two separate threads. 

Except for the player.  You took his winnings from him. 
You could of taken his deposit too, but you didn't. 

So what?
Your players are ultimately a client at Betchain. They put their trust in Betchain that they would be treated fairly.
Look at Betsofts history, how could you take their word for anything?  When they try to prevent your player from being paid, make sure they can prove the reason is legitimate or tell them to fuck off.


You aren't going to post the logs because of what people might say or because the logs don't prove anything?
If you don't post them, they definitely won't prove anything.

How many of your happy customers had funds taken from their account?

How many players had money taken from them because of this issue?
What was ratio of "I complain" vs "I understand"
How much was confiscated?

This year evidence was presented (https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/06/warning-avoid-all-betsoft-slots-and-casino-games) Betsofts progressive  slots were unfair.
A Betcoin.ag player got treated like shit and got screwed by Betsoft. (https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/07/betcoin-ag-betsoft-force-shafted-jackpot-winner-into-agreement)
Bovada fired Betsoft. (https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/06/bovada-and-slots-lv-drop-betsoft-progressive-games)
Betsoft has not even acknowledged any part of this situation publicly.  Do you think they could give less of a fuck if they tried?
In 2010 Players proved Betsofts Keno game was unfair.  (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/absolute-poker-keno-rigged-x-posted-nvg-zoo-898568/) Betsoft never apologized or even responded.

You could just ignore me for the most part except to occasionally mention that I'm just a troll and then eventually maybe I'll give up and people will forget about this issue.  THat's basically what Betcoin.ag, Betcoin.tm, FortuneJack, Btc-casino, and Fun-casino.com have done in similiar situations.  (I might be missing some others)