Bitcoin Forum

Who wants to be a part of or associated with DarkMarket activity ?
Involved with Monero ?
Then you are NOW...

Things took a turn and have changed with the recent news they accept XMR now.

Me ? I would distancing myself from some coin used by meth dealers, terrorists & pedophiles etc.

Consider your actions carefully people..
i am sure the US 3 letter agencies have taken an interest in XMR now.
Does this sound appealing to you ?

That's what crypto is for, in the end, no ?  To bring down state and law. Otherwise, I don't see its purpose.  So I can only applaud this...

Freedom of trade.  Like freedom of speech.  The two pillars of real freedom, taken away by state and law, taking it back to people.  The real aim of crypto: a new French Revolution in the making, that started with Galileo and Newton (the first distributed organisation, science, that brought down the pillar of the Ancien Regime: religion and King by the grace of God).
It took centuries.  But it got there.

The Silk Roads of today, with "forbidden trade" are like the books of Galileo 4 centuries ago, with "forbidden thinking".  And yes, both got condemned severely by law and justice.   

Well said I agree with this. I thought it was Bitcoin that was gonna save us.. Looks like it's monero and maybe aeon.

WOW Dino it takes a lot for me to be shocked but..

You said..


You have got to be fucking kidding me.. holy shit i am stunned !  :o

I just don't even know what to say LOL
Seriously i am utterly fucking flabbergasted.

That must have been the same reaction a normal person must have had in the middle ages when he asked "what is all that philosophy and science for ?" and someone answered "to bring down state religion and kings and freedom of inquiry to people".

I don't think traders care much about any of these. As long as the volume is high and Monero is being pumped they will join in and enjoy the profit to the max. And i don't know if you realize this but you are (un)intentionally  advertising Monero because we all know what happened when bitcoin entered silk road and dark market (moon).

Not saying the same will happen here too but it was surely effective enough to help the rise to 170% or some crazy percent like that.

It will be a long road from burning of Giordano Bruno to the chopping off the head of Louis XVI.  It might take centuries.  
It will not be bitcoin, and probably not monero.  These are just steps.  But clearly, monero is a further step than bitcoin.
There will be contra-reforms, there will be harsh measures against crypto.  But in the end, freedom will prevail.  Like always.

In past darkweb sites only accepted bitcoin and now they added monero, so basically if using monero will be crime than it will be same with bitcoin. I don't think US agency even care much about the people who use bitcoin or monero. They will only have an eye when someone related to those marketplace will be exposed, so basically only using monero or bitcoin may not harm ourselves.

this was considered a selling point for bitcoin for a long time. it's kinda undignified that the same argument used by mainstream assholes is now being used by people in the bitcoin space against xmr.

Indeed.  Bitcoin has changed.  It went corporate.  
It is the Apple of open source now

well put indeed... seems lots of bitcoiners have become the mainstream-assholes now... wtf...

best regards

10 XMR = 1 BTC

yup not sure why ppl think this garbage will last.
sure trade it on exch's but the fact ppl wanna touch it is fucked.

@Piston Honda
I would not even put "Silk Road" into a Google search.
What ? I want to be on a watch list ? NO THANKS !


That is pure 100% bullshit .

and..


Read what i said above LOL

ALL people i have talked to about Bitcoin on the street said it was a drugs & guns coin.
A guy i met last year looked at me with disgust when i said i was into Bitcoin.
I had to re-explain to him all about it and he admitted to me he was relieved because..
he thought i was some type of online criminal.. because of admitting my involvement with BTC etc.

I tell ya i have gotten some seriously dirty looks and attitude over it.

Selling point ?

Uhhhh NO morons LOL

You people are stupid blind & delusional beyond fucking comprehension !

Seriously pull your little scammy profiteers heads out of your ass's and see reality already.
Go out on the street and ask people and stop spewing retarded bullshit here.

I posted the SEC Crypto-Currency Investor Fraud Alert warning in the Bitcoin section late last year and you all had the fucking nerve to call it "good news"

No.. dumb fucks those words are not "Congratulations Scammy fucking ponzi-heads"
Even though 100% of you replied to the topic chanting it was "good news"

Ignorant morons.. who you think you're foolin' ?

So the US government will sooner of later shut down some dark market and seize a whole bunch of moneroj. Then auction those moneroj via the US Marshals Service. Now when did this happen before with Crypto currency? Ah yes with Bitcoin about 3 years ago. Yours truly took advantage of the US Government seizure of the Silk Road Bitcoins, three years ago to rescue his last remaining funds, CAD, out of MtGox in the form of Bitcoin. Furthermore the US Government saw a significant appreciation in terms of USD of their Bitcoins between seizure and auction sale.

Now here is the interesting question: Will the US Government do better or worse in terms of the capital gain or loss between seizure and auction sale, should a similar situation in the future occur with Monero?

My only involvement with Monero was that I opened a web wallet over a year ago and decided against buying any. I have no use for contraband, and definitely wouldn't do anything over the internet if I was. I think I will stay away from Monero. Don't want my computer confiscated.  

I have never had any myself or traded any on an exchange etc.
Better safe than sorry.  :D

I would think Polo and Bittrex would try to distance themselves, but I guess they like the profits to be made short term. Couldn't they be held responsible for providing a market for criminals to cash in? Or does the fact that they gather people's information absolve them of any responsibility as long as they turn over the info to the government on demand?

Then what are you doing in crypto in general ?  Or are you just interested in gambling on tokens with other gamblers ?

I really don't care about the supposed anonymity offered by cryptocurrency. I do like the idea that I can transfer value to someone across the globe for a relatively low fee. I also like the idea that I can create coins/tokens by simply running a program on a computing device. Why should the banks and government be the only ones that create money out of thin air?

Because they are the monopolists of violence that exist to extort people from their production of course.
Replace your question by "why should states be the only ones making laws and sending people to prison ?".

Then you also have the answer to the future legality of "that I can transfer value to the other side of the globe for a relatively low fee".  That fee, plus the taxes, plus the seigniorage, is what states live off.  You will not be allowed to like the idea that you can do without giving up sufficiently of your value to them for every breath you take.

You concentrate on the fee demanded by VISA, but that is peanuts compared to the VAT and the income tax that you are supposed to give to the states whenever "you transfer some value to just anybody anywhere".

This is why, if you do so, you will need anonymity.

And how do you propose someone actually transmits the anonymous cryptocurrency? The government can intercept any signal sent via electricity or electromagnetic waves. If they can't crack the code to figure out who is sending what, they can simply jam the network. I suppose you can try to establish a network employing quantum entanglement (so you could have spooky action at a distance.). However, I will probably be cold in my grave before this technology becomes close to affordable and feasible.

One can think of many ways.  It depends on the threat model of course and it depends on the tyranny applied.  If "running free software on your computer" becomes outlawed, we're far gone, so I suppose that you can have nodes running P2P connections without having your house raided.  If that's not the case any more, then in the end, possessing a computer will be licensed like weapons, just like North Korea.  I will admit that anon crypto in North Korea is a difficult thing to do.

So under the assumption that people can run free software on their computers, and have free encrypted P2P links with other people running free software on their computers, which makes it impossible to outlaw monero as such, but only its USAGE in commercial transactions, there are enough means to transmit transactions over the network.  If you are in any case using your freedom to engage in forbidden transactions (because they are bluntly forbidden, or because you don't want to be fiscally stolen, or you don't want or are not allowed to get all the needed license privileges, or for whatever other reason your freedom to trade is taken away and you decide to keep that freedom), then the fact that you are going to engage in a forbidden transaction is not what is stopping you.

TOR was deanonymised with a big effort, because TOR is low-latency.  Transactions don't have to be low-latency.  They can be as slow as usenet used to be.  If you leave out the low-latency demand, then anonymous networking is much, much more robust.  If on top of that, you use obfuscation, then I think you're pretty well off.  Of course some users will be caught. No system is perfect. But you will not be able to bring down the whole network.

You can think for instance about transactions hidden in images, so that a whole set of images results in a zero-knowledge proof of transaction, without being able to know WHICH image actually contained the "real proof" (somewhat like obfuscated ring signatures).

Miners will look for these proofs in different places, and if they discover valid transactions, include them.  Of course, depending on the effort needed to recover the transaction, the fee has to be accordingly.

You could transmit transactions by snail mail.  One can be extremely creative.

All this depends on the effort the state wants to put into it, and the effort people want to put into keeping/obtaining their freedom.

You are distancing from BTC?

Spoeter, you no longer have to worry, for some random guy on Steemit is selling colloidal silver as a cure for aids:

http://www.intothegardenofeden.com/uploads/5/2/8/6/52863945/5728347.jpg

Torrent sites ONLY index content and yet get jail time and fines..

And I think that is what the exchange owners are assuming.
Don't kid your self people exchanges actually do rat you all out on a regular basis.

I also want to point out the biggest site in CryptoLand does this too.. GITHUB
And the 2nd biggest.. BITCOINTALK i suspect has been doing the same for years.

If the US gov can serve a warrant.. they own it (decentralized rebellious crypto free market mantra or not)

PS:
I have no problem with govt that is managed in a reasonable way.
They are a public service that helps keep the society we all enjoy running smoothly.
They are made up of us.. the people employed by the govt.

This whole rebellious teen angst against the man is adorable LOL
But.. grow up kids.

When you need a Fire engine or Ambulance you will be glad the govt took your tax money to pay for it.
Rather than being a douche here bashing the "LAWS" here to ensure we have a scam scene to profit from..
maybe go out and enjoy "paved" roads LOL

PPS:
I agree with "bones" when he said WHY he is here !

While your points are somehow valid and somehow scary, there's a weak point in them too, and it was funny to see it.
You know that Bitcoin and US dollar are also used by "meth dealers, terrorists & pedophiles etc.", right?  ;D

Again, your have some valid points too, I don't want to argue about "we should or we should not use Monero".

That is as much a contradiction as "I have no problem with gangsters, as long as they are honest people".  In fact, it is the SAME contradiction.


So you can continue to do that, and provide those services, without a government, right ?

Why would you need compulsory service, if everybody wants it ?  The very same people that provide "state services" can do this just as well in an associative way if the people profiting from it would pay the contributions to that association in the same way they pay taxes.


Why not contribute voluntary to an association or company that provides exactly the same service (you want) ? 

When you need bread, you are happy that state bakeries provide it to you and took your tax money to pay for it, right ?  Ah, no, that works on the basis of free agreements.  Funny, why can those other things not run on free agreements ?

sorry but that doesnt make any sense...
dont you buy bitcoin? if not, why are you in a bitcoin related forum?

XMR is starting in this market, bitcoin is there since the begin...

Bitcoin started out with DNMs as well. Moving on from that physical stores that accept cash exist so why can't compliant e-commerce accept e-cash?

Interesting question.. can / will Poloniex be held accountable ?

lol, end of monero? this coin always have a bunch of promoters, spamming a lot other threads to promote their coin. I don't like it at all, and glad to see it will die soon. ;D

I think Monero was screwed from day 1.
They chose to fight the Fed's by willingly violating anti-money laundering laws.
Who do you think will win that fight ?

Imagine it's like P2P / File Sharing Piracy.
Similar right ?

Ok well think of this then..
Imagine we had a way to still do our Piracy file sharing while being legally compliant.
Then why would you choose to do it in an alternative method violating law around the world ?

Dead ?

Well they can sure put the noose tight around Monero.
Where ever it pops up they can be waiting with a hammer.. like Piracy !
Plenty of people are in jail right now in the P2P scene.

Indeed, the very same causes championed by early bitcoin adopters (who are now distancing themselves from them) are the ones Monero's tried to pick up and progress.

OP, I generally don't disagree with your views but are you also going to caution bitcoin users for its continued use in the dark agenda? Or should we also shun fiat because it is still the number 1 choice for criminal activity?

One is regulated and one is not.
One gets lots of justice and the other gets none..

You were sayin' ? ;)