Bitcoin Forum

This auction will end in:
Timer removed. End time: 2013-04-08+11:00:00

Avalons all-out, first batch botched, seeking security?

There seems to be an influx of newbies trying to "group-buy" an Avalon (something I personally think will not end well for many just as most mining investments never did due to infighting, theft, etc). The point of these group-buys is that they allow multiple individuals to share in the cost and rewards, but entrust a complete stranger (and in these cases, a newbie with no reputation at all). The downside is that there are no guarantees that the individual will not just run out on them.

If you're actually interested in paying money now (BTC) to get shared profits in an Avalon miner for the future, I have a proposition that can help you achieve your goals while helping me build a trustworthy reputation here again after 2 years of trolling (and serious business endeavors).

A single Avalon ASIC, 85Gh/s (4 modules) will be sent from China to Korea in May (Batch 3). It has already been purchased free and clear, with funds that are mine and not loaned from others. I am auctioning off up to 50% of the profits of this device in the form of shares. To clarify, there will be 100 shares, 50 shares of which will be owned by me, the rest are to be auctioned here.

Please read these (http://store.avalon-asics.com/) two (http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/) pages of information carefully before making a decision so that you are well informed before placing your bid.

Please understand that with these new ASIC rollouts, GPUs will be less and less profitable, and as far as I am aware, there are no other serious competitors to Avalon at this time in terms of performance and delivery. I may be biased since I am an Avalon owner, but I feel that if you don't have an Avalon, you'll be the only one left out.

For those familiar with the forum's advertising space auctions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159328.0), this auction will be very familiar to you.


Hosting of the ASIC will of course be provided by me, and electricity costs will be deducted before profits are paid. Profits will be paid out on a weekly basis. This is not a business, there are no "voting shares" or any nonsense like that. Just profit sharing based on the percentage you purchased.

Please click the link in my signature to decide on your own if I am trustworthy enough to do business with, and as always, never put more money into bitcoin that you can't afford to lose. I feel that even at a potential loss for myself, this will be an important step in restoring a trustworthy reputation on this forum and allowing people to see that I am seriously committed to changing my odd behavior of the past.

Thank you for reading and let the bidding begin at 0.5BTC x 50 shares!

Note: Moderators please quote this for later evidence against tampering.

Quoted for proof

Also going to throw up a bid shortly, but I am curious of your approximate electricity costs.  I have no idea what it's like overseas.

I'll try to get this exact data tomorrow. What exactly would I be asking for? KW/h?

Exactly, I'm looking for cost per KW/h just to make sure it's not crazy high.

Ok - I'll bite on the starting bid with the full 50 @ .5 each

Yeah, that caught my eye too

show us proof, like the email receipt.

10 @ 0.55

Please read this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163795.0

I'll share it with Tysat since he's a moderator here and he can either confirm or deny my claim of receiving one here in Korea.

25 @ 1

I can confirm that he has an order for a batch 3 Avalon that's been paid.

No need to worry about there not being a unit.

Current stats:

User   -  Shares -   BTC
norman -    15   -   0.5
server -    10   -   0.55
qwk    -    25   -   1

25 @ 0.60

How long will the auction run for?

I think Theymos's guideline is a pretty good one.

25 @ 0.65

As an electical engineer I must clear this up because it is kind of like finger nails on a chalkboard to me.

Watt (W) and kiloWatt = kW = are units of power (as in Joules per second)
kilowatthour = kWh is a unit of energy (as in Joules)

What you purchase from the utility is energy and you are charged by the kilowatthour (kWh)

So $/kWh is what we need to know.  Numbers are usually $0.02 to $0.40 per kilowatthour.

20 @ 0.75

Thank you Burt, I honestly wasn't sure of that myself. I will check this apartment's price for electricity specifically because in a cursory look online in Korean it seems every-single-area is different, even inside the same city.

Why is this not in the Auction forum ?

Most of the other individuals selling ASICs have their threads in this subforum. Hadn't crossed my mind to put it someplace else.

10 @ 1

Not true. All threads were for preorders. Other post-order threads are in Goods/Hardware or Marketplace/Auction section.

MNW -

2 questions:

1) Just to make sure I understand these terms; each share (1%) initially cost you ~1 BTC (~100 BTC for the 4 module miner), right?
2) Will shares be transferable after the auction ends? (ie can I sell these in 1 month to another user)

Thx

TheJuice

10 @ 1.2

My bid is withdrawn.  Sorry for any inconvenience.  I'll PM this to Mathew as well.

is this still opened?

MNW, I'm actually surprised you got rid of the scammer tag. Well done.

It is not possible to withdraw your bid, but it is also not necessary. 1 BTC per 1% of profit from an ASIC is highly undervalued.


It will be open for *at least* 12 days, but may be ended sooner (see OP).


Don't treat this like a business IPO. This is a personal arrangement for multiples of 1% of the ASIC's earnings. If you ask me to change the payment address at a later date, and that address happens to be someone who paid you money, I don't see why I couldn't oblige, and equally so, if you both agreed to have that new party be in control of that % in the future, I wouldn't stop you. I am not going to issue a stock certificate or anything silly like that though.

This is a batch #3 unit

You paid 75BTC for that machine, thus 0.75BTC per 1%

This is already a serious amount given the difficulty projections, but you dare to state that 1BTC for 1% is highly undervalued. Trying to scam some newbies? Would you care to throw some math to back your bold statement?

This ASIC has 4 modules (85GH/s) and a PSU, so the initial price was 101.5 BTC in limited quantity and is now sold out. The same device with only 3 modules is currently making 7 BTC a day, this one will  be shipped a month from now. Rather than argue about projections no one could possibly know, I'll continue auctioning this to people who missed the boat ordering an ASIC. Thank you for your concern about newbies. As I mentioned in the OP, never invest in mining hardware or bitcoins in general with money you can't afford to lose. No one knows what is going to happen to the network or price.

There are some projections you cannot escape from

1200 Avalons will add at least 84THs to the network at the same time you'll receive your unit (I considered an average of 70Ghs per unit, but it may be more because of 4 modules Avalons like yours)

yeah, that will increase the difficulty Aprox. X3 without even considering BFL or ASICs inertia - and you throw numbers based on today's difficulty?

That's deceiving, and IMHO trying to make a big buck from newbies taking advantage of gold rush and ignorance is not the best way to regain confidence of the community

Your projections make it clear why GPUs will no longer be profitable. I appreciate your continued efforts and understand your concern given my history of trolling and such. I'll check my OP to make sure there were no projections made (I don't believe I ever made any. EDIT: I posted 2 links for required reading in regards to warnings of mining projections and investing into mining hardware) and continue to remind bidders to do their research before purchasing any mining equipment or investing into Bitcoin in any way.

Happy bidding!

User      -  Profit %  -   BTC
DutchBrat -    5      -   0.75
niner     -    10      -   1
qwk       -    25      -   1
norman    -    10      -   1.2

10 @ 0

Just read the "should you truste me" link in your signature.

Summing up: you got two scammer tags in the past. Last one related to a commitment you did not honor, and you are still owing a very big amount of money to dozens of members of this community. You try to justify that this commitment was just a "prank"... But still you have money to buy Avalons while not paying back your old debts.

Trying to make it right with the community? So why don't you publicly commit to use all the revenue generate by your Avalon to pay back what you owe?

Then, let me ask:

how do we know that this is not another prank, and you that will simply not honor your commitment as you did in the past?
what collateral are you offering to your investors as a guarantee?

I have been receiving some PMs asking to deal *outside* this auction thread, including an offer to buy all 50 slots for 2 BTC, but I declined. Please understand that once this auction begins, I am not able to make any other purchasing arrangements. If however you have certain stipulations for placing a bid, by all means share those in PM with me privately and I will be happy to negotiate them with you without forcing you to bid first.

I'm hallucinating or there was a post right here warning newbs about Matt being a scammer? Was this post deleted by mods?

Anyhow: please Matt be so kind to answer the questions I ask you in my previous post.

I am deleting OT replies to the topic.

OK, fair enough. And thanks for staying vigilant, appreciate the work you do.

5 @ 0.75

5 @ 1.1

PS: I removed the status update section as MNW cannot update it due to the thread's location.

I'm sorry, I made a mistake in my math (if mods could remove the above miscalculation, it'd be much appreciated).

Here are the current stats:

5 @ 1.1

People have paid 0.8386 for 1% of my Avalon #2, a 3 unit.  That means the market says his 4 unit is worth about 1.157733 BTC
There is a lot of discussion about difficulty and payback in my thread.

In fact, the market judged you as being someone with less than 4 months reputation on the forums, selling a batch 2, and only 3 modules. There are many different factors here, some in and some against my favor, that it would be hard to say what the market will decide in this particular case. Given that the auction can last up to 12 days, it may in fact do much better than that. One thing is for sure-- with your auction over, the scarcity just went up!  ;)



I recommend people read his thread and others before bidding. There is always the possibility for great earnings and losses depending on infinite factors (ranging from market depth, volume, publicity, adoption, hacks, errors, public opinion, etc) when investing in mining equipment. I can say that I personally wouldn't have picked up an Avalon ASIC for 101.5 BTC if I didn't see the potential to make 10x that and create residual income for myself, my debts and my future projects.

Very interesting, especially when coming from you.

I received a message last night for clarification on some points and I agree that they should be mentioned here.

Upon receiving the ASIC, I have *no* intention of:

• The unit will not be altered in any way that is not advised by all parties
• No experimentation will be done on the unit
• The unit will be run under default conditions, those recommended by Avalon
• The unit will not be overclocked, unless a time comes later down the road that *all* parties agree to attempt it due to decreasing profits

Thank you subSTRATA for recommending this information be public. It does indeed help clarify things and in hindsight should have been included in the OP.

How do we do know this is not a prank, as per your last commitment towards the community, which has not been honored?
How do we know that you won't just choose to stop paying dividends, and this debt will just be added to the debt you already have with dozens member of this forum?
What kind of collateral are you offering to your investors to guarantee that you will honor your commitment?

Sorry for being such a pain, but I think these are important questions when considering to invest hard-earned bitcoins with someone with your history.

Fair enough. You can click the link in my signature for a list of the good things I've done as well as the mistakes I've made. I've handled much more money than this and am still entrusted with far larger things than running a simple Avalon profit sharing agreement. It does seem that you're either too new to know or you are one of the few who took my trolling to heart (perhaps you're a sockpuppet of one of the people who bet with me?). I learned a hard lesson and I grew up. This is a legitimate attempt to make good on it.

For the past few months I have worked tirelessly to make things right about that poor decision. If you'd like to see the progress I have made so far, please visit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140654

Your fears, although legitimate in general towards any transaction in bitcoin, are slightly misguided. I've never scammed anyone, just successfully trolled and crossed a lot of lines I shouldn't have, that I am now very sorry for. I encourage you to follow this thread and see what develops, and I always appreciate the criticisms and advice of others in my business dealings as it helps hone my skills. Thank you.

Summing up: no guarantees, no collateral. We just have to blindly trust that this time you will do the right thing - am I right?

I will pass, but I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you!


Just an update, as it says in the OP, this auction can close at anytime but will not last longer than 12 days. The latest it will be open until is April 15th at 03:21:57 AM KST, but likely to close before then due to privately discussed terms from serious bidders.

10 @ 1.05

Current stats

User      -  Profit %  -   BTC
qwk       -    20      -   1
subSTRATA -    10      -   1.05
Delitus   -    5       -   1.1
tysat     -    5       -   1.1
norman    -    10      -   1.2

10 @ 1.05

5@1.1

hi

3@1.2

User      -  Profit %  -   BTC
qwk       -    2       -   1
gweedo    -    10      -   1.05
subSTRATA -    10      -   1.05
hiima     -    5       -   1.1
Delitus   -    5       -   1.1
tysat     -    5       -   1.1
actudoran -    3       -   1.2
norman    -    10      -   1.2

3@1.2

2 @ 1.15

2@1.25

Op owes me 5000 btc. Do not trust him as he has a scammers tag.

20 @ 1.3

Is this going to end or is it ongoing?

He owes money to dozens of members of this community, and still people is so desperate to have an Avalon that bids in the scammer's auction.

I'm amazed by the fact that he doesn't need to provide any guarantee on the fact that he won't run with the money... Nor provide any collateral to protect his investors in case he just decides to stop paying dividends.

It depends on what your definition of scamming is. I never took that bet seriously, nor can I see why anyone would. This, on the other hand (like Matt's work with Bitcoinmagazine) is completely valid. The contexts are entirely different.

I would not put a single penny into this project. In fact I regret that I allowed MNW to waste almost one year of my life with all his numerous projects. Stay away from this.

Did you read this?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140654

It looks to me like he has made huge progress and that according to this he has in fact resolved the bet with everyone he could locate.

PS: The off-topic replies were deleted by me. Please stay on topic here, and feel free to create a new topic on what you want to say.

I expected the price of Bitcoin to drop, but it appears it has continued to rise despite being the weekend. For this reason I find it unethical to keep this auction open for much longer (the promises made here for purchase were made with a certain bitcoin value in mind). As the OP states, this auction was originally for 12 days but I reserve the right to end it early at anytime.

I'll be ending this auction within 24 hours and alerting all betting parties of such in case they wanted to grab more shares before it's over.

It's been an interesting experiment to see how many characters would crawl out of the woodwork to spread hatred and I will gladly prove them wrong (again and again). Thanks everyone for their support, skepticism and interest.

12 @ 1.16

5@1.17

25 @ 1.25

Current stats

User      -  Profit %  -   BTC
lebing	  -    20      -   1.3
sealkid   -    2       -   1.25
qwk       -    25      -   1.25
KaTXi     -    3       -   1.2

8 @ 1.3

3 @ 1.3

There was a pattern of people not following the initial guidelines ("All bid prices must be evenly divisible by 0.25.") but I wasn't worried about it because I figured it would correct itself within 12 days. Now that the auction has less than 24 hours to go however, it seems it will be quite spammy to both receive, respond to, and keep track of each 0.01 BTC increment. For that reason I'd like to ask that all betters please go back to the original guidelines and begin following the 0.25BTC increment rule.

Thank you for helping keep this a spam free auction!

Ok then:

3 @ 1.5

3 @ 1.25

Quick question, did you ever find out roughly what you will be paying per KWH? Thanks,

Sorry, I missed the original guideline about the divisibility.

5 @ 1.5

7 @ 1.3

3 @ 1.5

Please be aware that the auction will be ending in less than 5 hours. Thank you.

What is happening with the 1.30 bids ?

Are they valid ?

Anyone who posts a new bid should post in intervals of 0.25, anyone who has already posted a bid not divisible by 0.25 will still be honored, but any additional bids on their part should be corrected. I hadn't noticed Lodbrok was a new bidder and thought he was just adding 0.25 to his previous bid.


To clarify once again, from this point on all bids should end in 0.25, 0.5, 0.75 or .0.  If you bid otherwise, your bid may be ignored.

I'm considering bidding for more shares but am also interested in the electricity costs. Any figures available?

I've received multiple requests and waited until after the weekend to contact the electric company. Today when I called them they referred me to a website that showed the rates based on consumption. I won't know for absolute sure until I get my power bill, but I don't personally remember my electricity being all that expensive, just the gas.

http://cyber.kepco.co.kr/cyber/01_personal/01_payment/payment_table/payment_table_eng.jsp (Might ask you to run it in Internet Explorer because Korean websites are archaic and backwards).

^^^^^  A friend just confirmed, it asks to run too many plugins to even bother looking at (typical of Korean government and bank websites). Here's a screen shot instead:

http://new.tinygrab.com/864f9a7910cc5ac01419a5c1b4d1d0c2bb521bd499.png

Thanks for the info. Where in Korea are you located?

Yeah, I was at a UK wedding over the weekend and my friend Alex from Seoul was in attendance. We were talking about how ridiculous is seemed for Korean internet services to not really attempt cross-browser compatibility. Internet Explorer all the way. But he was also saying how Korean corporate identities tend to want to keep their own name on things by making their own copies of established software. So instead of Microsoft Office, there is a "Korean Office" software that most companies customise and use. Looks the same as MS but full of bugs.

Anyway, I digress. Altering my bid to...

6 @ 1.5

Just a friendly reminder to everyone, the auction will be ending in 2 hours from now.

Timer removed. End time: 2013-04-08+11:00:00

This auction has officially ended. I will be contacting all the parties involved and lock the thread until there is a need for updating it.

Payment received as of 4/9/2013 from:

KaTXi - 4.5 BTC
sealkid - 9 BTC
Lodbrok - 9.1 BTC
Delitus - 7.5 BTC
hiima - 1.25 BTC
lebing - 26 BTC
norman - 10.4 BTC

Awaiting payments from:






I will ask a moderator to edit *this* post upon receiving payments to avoid spamming the thread.

Thanks again everyone who participated in this. As you may be aware, Avalon (BitSyncom) sent out an email last week telling everyone that Batch 2 has not shipped on time (by April) and isn't expecting to be shipped for another 2 weeks (stretching into May and passing Batch 3's shipment date).

This most certainly would lead one to believe that the Batch 3 shipment (which this auction was for) would also be delayed equally. Let's hope that is not the case and that their new production process (which they also mentioned) will allow Batch 3 to go out almost the same time as the belated Batch 2.

I anxiously await this shipment and will continue to monitor all channels of information (non-speculative) and report when there is something more to report.

I have never received anything from the shares I hold.

Has anyone been getting their dividends?

Nothing, Matthew seems to have disappeared. He emailed a while back about getting a refund but no reply since.

I got all my Bitcoins back in full.

I have gotten half my bitcoins back. He promised me the rest and haven't heard back from him.

I contacted him yesterday.

He answered quite fast, basically he says that Yifu didn't refund him and he can't get him to do it (any other group buy in this situation???).
Anyway, in his own words: "you're one of the few people I couldn't afford to refund out of my own pocket and I await Avalon to refund the money they owe me.", which seems to be true if you read yesterday's posts from different people in the group buy.

Same for me, being "one of the few". I am still in (infrequent) contact with Matthew and am just in "wait and see" mode.

guys, this guy is a scammer I lost 7btc because this Avalon BS. report your incidents to moderator and many hero members knows him that he has been scamming noobs for years.

Bumping - I'm still waiting for my 10+ BTC "refund" from this sad life lesson...