Bitcoin Forum

I'm wondering if I can open up a local shop and sell bitcoins for cash without paperwork or signing anything. Sure a bitcoin ATM can fulfill that role but as a shop I could do other things such as sell bitcoin merch etc, offer information on bitcoin and cryptos etc, but primarily I'm wondering if I can sell bitcoin for cash without hassling customers with paperwork. I suppose the laws would be the same for an ATM machine? which I haven't heard to be of a legal problem. I'd be considering doing this in Texas, USA, by the way. Any references or shared knowledge would be great, and I'm less interested in speculation. Thanks!

You would probably need a license for it . One thing that I have extensively read from fellow traders in the US, is that its hard to sell bitcoins without the license.I also don't expect you would get a serious and completely accurate reply on btctalk, so would suggest asking a lawyer rregarding this.

i think yes you can really do this as there is no restriction for trading in bitcoin.  i think it will really be a very very good decision through this way you can really promote bitcoin in your area, and in this way more and more people will invest their money in bitcoin.

Right, do you have any idea where I could find lawyers knowledgable on bitcoin laws?

There would be a lot of money launderer flocking to your shop in that case. Although I'm one of those who prefer to buy BTC without paper works, I think a paper work would be best.

I'm just not sure if you can do it in the Philippines. You're also a Pinoy?

i think for first, you can make your own company and make your office for real so people can proof that you are real person that handle for local shop which are selling and buying bitcoin, don't forget to hire a lawyer if there is need in your country, and maybe you need to talk with bank government which handle regulator that you are making a company about bitcoin and ask them what is need to do this.

Yup. You'd get hammered instantly.

I get the feeling Texas is a bit more crypto friendly than other states but that sounds like the essence of money transmitting and they'd be all over you. Lawyer yourself up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_transmitter

'In the legal code of the United States, a money transmitter or money transfer service is a business entity that provides money transfer services or payment instruments.'

yes you can do it there is nothing wrong in it  think it will be really a very positive step toward promoting bitcoin.

to me it will be really appreciable if you really want to open a shop in your local area and sell bitcoins for cash, through this way you can really promote bitcoin and con convince more and  more people to start using bitcoin.

Unfortunately i would advice you aganist it since you are planning to opening a shop in texas , Texas has not considered bitcoin or any other crypto currency as legal money ,here is a feature regarding that Texas Banking Chief Issues Rules for Bitcoin (https://www.texastribune.org/2014/04/11/texas-banking-chief-issues-rules-bitcoin/) this is an old feature and i dont know thing have changed right now. it is better to have a legal opinion regarding it.

yes no doubt about this, you can really do this, but if your government give you permission and secondly that if you think that there are good number of bitcoin users in your area, then you can really open a shop.

If your opening a shop to sell bitcoin I think you will need a permit for it. But if your a small time seller or you only sell small amount on your spare time and not opening a phisical shop, I think you can sell without need a permit for it.

yes you can do that and it will be one of the most profitable business, you will collect a fixed amount from the customers as exchange services, and i usually convert my bitcoin using Urdu bit who easily exchange the bitcoin in t our fiat currency .

The IRS will probably look at BTC as "property", while other forces in the Gov't will say you are dealing in "money".
Good luck, and please let us know how it works out.

What about if he opens a shop outside of the united states and in a country that does not have any problems such for the ones that have been brought up.

I dont think anyone would be interested to go to your shop to buy bitcoin when he/she can buy it online much easily and quickly.Bitcoin is not a physical commodity which people should examine before buying so going to shop to buy it is useless

Maybe this is why ATM machines for bitcoin have not really taken off either.
Bit if it is marketed correctly I believe it can turn out to be a successful business and very profitable.

but if bitcoin is not legal in an area then how can you get the permit for it from the government, in my area you can open a shop without taking any permission from the government. so i think it will be really appreciable if you start such kind of business, as it will be good for both you and for the customers.

In the USA you need a money transmitter license for every state you operate in. A little bit of info, this license is roughly $1000 per state and if you don't have the license and get caught laundering money that's a prison sentence and one hell of a fine.

If bitcoin is allowed in your country then you can do that job easily without any difficulty but try to open that shop in that area where you feel that the number of bitcoin users are more higher.

yes you can really do  it and there is nothing wrong with this, but if your government is not creating problems for you, then you can really do it without any doubt.

If you do it all by yourself then your assets might get frozen if not comply with gov regulations, though you can as long as you get cash in person and not by paypal or other services.

i think yes but for this you need to put  for this you have to take permission the government. and they will not give you permission as bitcoins is not a legal currency of the world.

Without sign in it is not possible because if someone will buy bitcoin from you then you will need to sign in to your wallet in order to make the transaction without signin there is no any other way that you transact the bitcoins.

Yes you can easily open your shop if your government is not against bitcoin and they will allow you for that but first of all you will need to promote bitcoin to every person in your area and you will need to motivate them to use bitcoin after that you will get your profit.

You should be extremely cautious when doing that. Delve into the law of your country and prepare. Many anti-money-laundering offices see bitcoin as an effective means of hiding and secretly transferring large amounts of illegally obtained value.

as still no one country give clear statement about bitcoin that either it is legal or illegal currency, therefore you can normally use it for being undefined status but if you are going to open a shop just for the purpose to do exchange of bitcoin it may be a problem as you have to give a statement about you r business which you are going to run in a shop but as bitcoin is not a legal business therefore they will not allow you for but i i think you can do it as mobile shop having no need to register with government  and to take NOC from government.

I would say its going to be based on the situation of things of in your country of residence. Over here, I see it as something not really advisable because of the awareness is still low and also give room for unnecessary exposure from law enforcement agencies who are most likely ignorant about Bitcoin to conclude that it is illegal thereby lead to series of embarrassment but hopefully soon, the situation might change.

Read this: http://www.dob.texas.gov/money-services-businesses
Your answer is there.



EDIT: Of course there will be lots of paperwork. You would need to follow AML (anti-money laundering) and KYC (know your customer) laws. Every penny would need to be documented, every customer verified.

If you are planning on opening a bitcoin shop in your country, get it registered and expect to pay tax just like any other business owner.

a good idea to plan your success plan a great good luck ;D

yes, maybe you can, stay set management in the company, and perhaps to his advantage to be minimum. but if you make the effort like that, then removes anounymous side of BTC .

Yes maybe you can do that because in America I think there is no problem with bitcoin, bitcoin in America to my knowledge is not banned so that you can open a local store and sell bitcoin for cash. But you must get approval from the government and obtain a license to be able to do it. I hope you be successful, friend ;)

I don't think you can. Bitcoin is illegal in many countries and if its legal in your area you might face much hassle because there are many illegal use of it.Such as money laundering is a serious issue in this sector.Being more careful you can get over it and aslike other businesses you will need a business permission or something like that to do this.Afterall dont loose hope.Good luck

I think you need some permissions for this job . Because probably it may be possible some people can make money transactions from one corner of the word to the other for illegal purpose .
But probably you can make your bitcoin shop without permission .One of my friend is doing the same thing in India usually he is making a reference I'd number for each deal . He just copy the deal adress and the identity proof of the buyer and sell of bitcoin And he save these files in the google drive . In every month he pays tax for this . He hired a advocate , the advocate helps him to make it use this job in honest way without violating any law of government .

Yes it is possible because there are many exchanges like westron union became popular. They get a licence from the government and are paying taxes to government on time. Every country has different rules for exchange of money may be, before setting up first consult a lawyer and fine the exact details about it.

Sure but the question is if your business is allowed in  your country. You should seek advice first to an expert before doing that so you will not face any legal actions that I know that you won't like to happen.

This is impossible because every business and establishment will be required a license to operate or else it will be illegal specially bitcoin exchanges. If bitcoin is legal in your country, all exchanges will be part of the regulation in which every bitcoins transactions will be strictly recorded and monitored. ATM transactions is fast and convenient because it was fully computerized but still its transactions are recorded and can be easily reviewed if needed. If your intention is good then you should abide the law and have a happy bitcoin exchanges business of your own.

The idea is great and might be profitable as the concept of it is good as it is timely that conversion fees might be bypass on doing so. But to open it in United state of America is not the smart thing to do, they have strict regulation towards cryptocurrency and also have taxes to fee. It would be much highly possible in a country that still no laws or neutral to this kind of investments. Having no taxes or minimal depend on IRS policy on the said country.

Yes that's good idea. But actually you need permissions from your government and pay tax to the government.
I hope your government legalized bitcoin in the future.
As I know there are another ways to sell bitcoins for cash (ex : local exchanger )

It's depend on your government policy whenever they against bitcoin usage or not !
Meanwhile my government still forbid bitcoin so it's quite difficult for my people that still not aware of bitcoin although some of my local shop already accept bitcoin but total transaction still low !

You need license ofcourse. Consult a lawyer what todo and make sure your country or your place know what is bitcoin and how to use it.

Absolutely right which you would really need a lawyer first to ask regarding on the regulations of  your government when it comes into this kind of business specially it involves on crypto knowing that most governments doesnt like it. Having a consultation first with a lawyer is the best possible initial move that you should do so that you wont risk yourself into any trouble when you do plan to build that kind of business. I would say this thing would be profitable for you but would really still depend on the interest or the number of people on your place do know about bitcoin or crypto.

This is an entrepreneurial activity and you must need to register as an Entrepreneur,You must create a firm like LLC or other.in my opinion you shoud make everything as Purchase Agreement is regulated because i have never heard special issues about this situation and if there is not special norm,goverments regulate it with general norm,in this situation by  purchase agreement.so there are bad sides because in this situation you need to pay additional tax for income wich % depend on where do you live. Its better to sell online because there is no strict monitoring job

dude, you just dodge a big ass legal bullet :)

there is absolutely regulation in Texas that would require you to register as a money service business. basically, despite your best intentions, unless you conduct aml/kyl on each and eavery user on your platform, you cannot be sure that you arent facilitating illicit transactions. hence, you must institute a procedure for your company to do diligence on all your customers, or else you can be criminally liable if something does go wrong down the road (one of your users was laundering money, for example).

and atms are actually pretty regulated. pretty much the same as above; the machine will be doing the diligence instead of user submitted details.

Maybe you should sell physical bitcoins, loaded with coin, as a product ;)

Yes,you can if your country allows that but most of the country doesn't allow this kind of actions because it will leads to money laundering the people who have black money they can convert it into bitcoins through you.But you are going to pay taxes for their money too.
But you don't need to open a shop for trading the bitcoin just you can do it in online by staying at home,try to think about it.If yiu think it is best thaen start yiur trading on localbitcoins.com.

nice thinking i agree with you

If you have a proper license for it you can really do it..
 It totally based on your country policies and rules.
Some countries are banned bitcoins and some countries accept it and trading it to.  In some countries do not know about bitcoins or any other cryptos and its value..  When it become legal for all countries then you will get more profit...

agree with you

Very much it is depended upon which country you live in and what are the rules and regulations of that country regarding this policy.  Some country may not encourage the cash activities and as a result somebody may face the action. 

Also I doubt that all countries will accept btc. I think limited countries may accept it and rest may ban or will introduce their own coin.
 

I think it's a strange idea. Shop require jobs. For wages you will lose a lot. ATM is more profitable but I think that this is not true. You can't do business. You have no concept. You do not know the occupation of your store. This is the road to bankruptcy. But I think that not going to do that. Probably your post for quantity.

Indeed.

But you know what, we are put in a hard position because we were asked about something we could plausibly never encounter. Like for instance, all countries/States have different laws. Hence, one from Asia cannot be expected to know something about the laws of Antarctica. But granting we are under the same jurisdiction, I think it is not right to not have papers in putting up this shop that offers Bitcoin as goods. I believe every business needs to have legal papers before it can operate legally to protect the public. 

Well that's a good idea, but I can't imagine if there there will be a consumer with your local shop.
Bitcoin is online so it is better to sell bitcoin online and you will have more consumers than your local shop. How about those who are in other countries how they will buy in your local shop. It is fast in online.
 But good luck, this only my idea.

Why not make business then accept bitcoin as a mode of payment which is more profitable than selling bitcoin. We all know that the price of bitcoin will continue to soar higher its better to hodl more than to sold it for a cash.

Perhaps it's best to inquire with the lawyers around your area, because it would depend on the legality of bitcoin there. It may be hard to find a lawyer who's knowledgeable on bitcoin, especially since I think there's not much law or jurisprudence relating to bitcoin since it's quite new in the international scene.

Regarding your business, I think that there will be a need for license or papers for that even it is concerning to bitcoin. Any kind of business that you would want to put up would require some paperwork and registration, otherwise you might be operating illegally. Every business should be recognized by the state.

NO! unless your state is ready to provide you with a GST number for such kind of business just don't even think of opening such a shop or you would be considered as a person involved in money laundering. Changing btc for cash would mean zero accountability so authorities would be really be worried about any such venture.

Besides legal requirements, you shall also worry about security. If you're in Texas, you know that quite many people have guns out there. Once it will be known that you have cash and BTC at your disposal, you should prepare for the possibility that someone puts a .44 to your head, and asks for ALL YOUR BITCOINS NOW!

I guess you can do it without much of paperwork if Bitcoin is not illegal in your country. You should check with your local business regulatory authority.

You can build your own shop but before that much better to have survey if there are many people using bitcoin in your area. Also get a permit or license for your business to make it legal, you should also have huge capital for this business.
This idea is great to promote bitcoin and entire crypto currency, i suggest to have crypto exchange also not only buy and selling bitcoin.

In order to in America the business was legal need to obtain a license for this activity. To call it a store is very difficult. The license will be very expensive. It will be not much less than to open your Bank. Legally engage in the exchange of cryptocurrencies is not profitable. It is better to engage in speculation on the stock exchange without licenses.

You are right and this such business would really need license because even you do compare this btc store than on an ATM machine would really be entirely different but both things would really require license for you to operate. Government would really put an eye on such business because this would be possible to be a gateway on money laundering and for sure they will really give requirements and restrictions on such business. It do indeed need a big capital but would totally dependent on how many bitcoiners is on your place and the potential people would tend to buy bitcoins.

Setting up a shop in any places needed permit or license and any transactions needed a receipt. This is not just because they want businesses to add workloads using paperworks but because they want to have paperworks to protect the customers as well as the sellers.

Thumbs up to that.. You’re right,, in a real world legality and documentation is important on most cases for the protection and safeguards of the clients from those businesses offering.. If without permits and licenses all would be messy and unorganised and it means chaos and uncertainty.. So to those who want to start this kind of shops must always research about laws and regulation in a country you want to build one..

Therefore you would really need to ask first a lawyer who do reside on your country since they do all know the current laws on anything. If they would able to approve that it is possible then thats the time we do build such business and do comply such requirements because government wont really let you pass on not to pay taxes.Just we do all know everything do have its permits when it comes to business you are really obliged.

In my opinion, it will be a difficult thing. The government certainly will not approve it. The government never considers bitcoin as a means of transaction, or an asset that can be bought with paper money.

The legality of bitcoin is what would matter first and this is jurisdictional based. If it has been legalized where you are then you can do what you like with bitcoin though within the confines of the law as it is enshrined, otherwise, you can't practice such sell.

The thing here is he just need to register his local shop as a business entity and there's nothing wrong with it, that's the due process for someone that wants to start his own business. And he has to declare that he will include selling bitcoins for cash.

Most of the government agencies aren't interested on business matters as long as it is legal and you will be taxed.

Yes it is possible, in the Philippines you can buy bitcoin in some stores using cash. For example in 7/11 if you used coins.ph wallet you can easily buy bitcoin, you can also invest if you also want. I guess if you build local shop that sell bitcoin, it was eye catchy because more users are no time to invest in bitcoin thru banks due to busiest in their particular jobs.

They are just partners or just a gateway used on buying bitcoins which is actually a good thing because you can simply buy it directly and once paid then they would credit bitcoins into your own local wallet but it would really need to be regulated if you do really like to engage or involve on this business. For now Philippines don't really impose strict laws regarding on bitcoin buy and sell.

You need a clear legal advice regarding these especially in matters concerning licenses and taxes you will pay in order to operate. I don't know much about US legal clear-cut regarding selling bitcoins into cash with a proper office or shop but one thing is for sure you need to abide your laws in order to operate legally.
This kind of idea is actually good since you don't need much to rely on online exchanges, I hope you can start your business soon :)