Bitcoin Forum

WTF is going on? This has to be a bubble??

A proper USD valuation is all. 

i just went from  broke to poor  all in the same day, if it rises anymore  i can eat at in n out  instead of mcdonalds.

Nah, proper USD valuation is actually at least 10,000 if bearish. I'd say around 20,000-40,000 range and I'll be interested.

We are the early adopters.

True we're looking at the new world wide elite money system called Bitcoin

I spent an hour trying to find some way to easily spend bitcoins using my iPhone. I failed. Bitcoin isn't ready for the real world. People buying today are speculators -- their only use for bitcoins is to sell them for fiat currency at some point in the future, at a higher price. Thus I think it's somewhat of a bubble.

BTC OVER $9000

Soon enough

You are a noob in the math behind Bitcoin obviously, it can only go up as you can see on the bid vs ask wall

Iphone's are useless for security, as are every other mobile device unless you did a custom build. Be glad you didn't find a way to store coins on there they'd all be gone.

If People are buying today for speculating reasons. I wish bitcoin would drop like a rock down to $1.00  :o

You really are living in a fantasy land. This valuation is not based on real trade, real volumes, it's based upon speculation. As such the value of the bitcoin is not being properly represented.

This IS a bubble. I just hope everyone doesn't try sell at once.

hope, that itself is a price support

how long does  bubbles  usually last outside of bitcoin,   in wallstreet  or what not.

No point looking outside of Bitcoin because the dynamics are different. But bubbles usually take many years to mature, and in most cases it's not seen as a bubble because real economic trade continues and masks the nature of the bubble.

Bitcoin bubble is like 1000% in a few months, and no equivalent uptick in trade? How do you explain that one? You can't.

Dude you don't know what you are talking about

Bitcoin is the new future money of the REAL WORLD but you are just too blind to see it

Check yourself, look at the price, you think the price doesn't reflect what people are thinking? They know this is the future

It may well be, that doesn't explain why the price has gone from $10-$130 in a few months. That sort of growth is clearly speculative and therefore unsustainable and at some point there will be a correction.

You can believe in the future of bitcoin without sticking your head in the sand, which unfortunately seems to be the standard response for many people here.

If bitcoin is going to grow and be successful it will have to be based upon actual value and real growth, not simply speculation.

speculation or not, the price shows real growth (its going higher = growth)

you dont understand the word growth my friend

people put their money, enforcing this growth

 it  doesnt feel like btc is a bubble, it feels like this is the way money is suppose to be. and more and more people are agreeing  this works.

yes the price reflects the people using it in the real world (bitcoin = real world) it totally makes sense to most people here but bears seems to be just that, bears

At least someone here knows what they're talking about.

147 now it only been like a hour since this post started

I have happy mornings since I've started with BTC (mining and long positions).

All hail BTC :D

Bubble? I would say pushing the world towards balance ;-)

agreed, now we get to have a say in this nutty world they have turned it into. peace my bitcoin brethren

Thank you for highlighting how utterly uninformed you are.

Yes, people are pumping money into Bitcoin for the simple reason that they hope to cash out at a higher price = speculation.

That is not sustainable, that is basically a Ponzi Pyramid scheme.

The only way Bitcoin can be successful is if there is REAL trade going on. That is, people are buying goods and services with their bitcoins, and unfortunately that market is still relatively small in comparison to the recent price jumps. Yes that market is growing and yes the value of Bitcoins is going to grow, just not at this ridiculous rate.

sorry but in a ponzi/pyramid scheme there is a promised value increase, bitcoin does not promise, it's purely based on real growth of usage

don't be sad you dont own bitcoins in this runup like all of us who are now millionaires

hopefully the price rise is just  alot of company startin to get into the mix,  western union is supposdely  gonna get in the action.

[just woke up too, and saw the price] - big believer in bitcoin, long term holder of bitcoin, and I really have to agree.  I expect a correction down to 100, maybe below.  This is very much a bubble.  I'm not selling, because I think long term it will rise back again, but equally I'm not going to be shocked when it drops like a stone pretty soon, all part of the eventual growth of bitcoin - it's just too soon for prices like this.  It's not good for bitcoin because it encourages hoarding rather than spending - we need more stability than this.

Will

Transferring or *keeping* money without ridiculous fees (and without a big brother)....do I need to say more? ;-)

I consider 1 aspect which is a real threat to this economy: a fundamental technical fault in the protocol. This what you good people need to keep an eye on.

WE NEED FREE MONEY!

Yes, desired_username Free money will Free us all  ;D

Mod just moved topic into the Speculation forum.

Case closed?

I like this, and therefore I like you. If you had an address I would tip you.

I don't like the price rising.
It makes Bitcoin unuseable right now.
Why buy a product of $100 for 1 BTC if I can buy it tommorow for 0.5 BTC?
Pure speculation... this is.

you are clearly not a professional value trader like most of us here

adapt to the future my friend, it is here and it is coming with bitcoins

Stability will come after wider adoption. As it has been said before, BTC have a long road to go. If it will be a success then this price is embarrassingly low (consider the market cap)

Wider adoption means more and more companies accepting it, in analogy, a better infrastructure.

sleeping is now banned!

Must get fancy acupuncture and concentrate daniel son! :)

I can relate to that. I went from pocket money to motorbike in one day. If only... IF ONLY..... ***IF ONLY***

you are clearly not a professional value trader like most of us here

adapt to the future my friend, it is here and it is coming with bitcoins
[/quote]

Professional value trader? ROFL. Please stop talking.

Bubble usually burst when the man in the street is buying

Even a bubble at this price is safe ;D ;D ;D ;D

"men in the street" started this

Because you can buy 1 BTC today for the price of 0.5 BTC tomorrow.

When you need to buy through BTC do it fast enough and it won't matter.

No, thats right iam not a 'professional value trader' whatever that is. I am a programmer.
I don't understand what you mean btw.
Isn't Bitcoin the new currency everybody should use?
But now its not useable cause of the bizarre fluctuation right?
You tell me wich company wants to take the following risk:

1) They sell 2 cars.
2) Earn 600 Bitcoins
3) Next day the value plummets from $100 to $50.
4) See your day profit vaporize.

Companys simply can't take that risk right now so are not adopting it on a large scale.
Bitcoin needs to become stable and grow slowly to that $900 value your talking about.
But not like this. It's not good for Bitcoin.

It's not fluctuation, but growth, there weren't any significant downward movements for months.

Companies could easily adapt to BTC even with fluctuations (I do run a business accepting BTC). You can always convert BTC to fiat anytime you choose.

An other interesting aspect:
The fiat in my country have been suppressed by EU manipulators by a margin of 25% recently. basically it affected a lot of businesses dependent on imports. Now that is a problem.

We're not even close to the situation where the "street man" is buying. 99% of people I know personally are not buying Bitcoins.

I agree

Institutional money phase is starting causing huge rise to a  sustainable fundamental price

So now the value of a bitcoin plummets with about 20 dollars per bitcoin
x 600 (see example) = 12000 dollar.
Good stories about growth and all but do you really think comapnies are gonna switch over to Bitcoin if they can lose these amounts of money in a one hour?
Forget about it.

They do not need to switch completely. They can exchange it for fiat within an hour. They can offer the old payment methods in the same time.

noob bear

You joined a few days ago wopwop and all you do is spam the forum with speculative garbage to cover your position. Give it a rest.

Oh sorry I forgot, you're a professional value trader.

He doesnt get my point.
Ofcourse I want Bitcoin to grow.
Just not this fast since it scares companies away.
You and me know now this is a bubble which will pop anytime soon.
No company is gonna risk there montly profit for that.

companies can see their profits grow tenfold in months if the allow bitcoins

We hit the irrational exhuberence stage.  Good time to cash in profits and wait for a lower price.

i dont understand

For me it seems like you are strongly uninformed:
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/bitpay-processes-5-million-in-march-eclipses-silk-road/ (http://bitcoinmagazine.com/bitpay-processes-5-million-in-march-eclipses-silk-road/)
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/bitcoinstore-sells-500000-renews-ingram-contract/ (http://bitcoinmagazine.com/bitcoinstore-sells-500000-renews-ingram-contract/)
+ Silk Road, +Avalon, +Namecheap, +Mega, ...

^^^ Kids, this is pure speculation and NO REAL trade is going on, mmm-kay?

A pullback would be comforting. Btc fundamentally, if hedge funds are starting to pour speculative money in then BTC can go way way higher yet. $1000 easy. Then the man in the street piles in..... upside galore

Maybe its both factors, maybe reason for the levels of speculation is based on more people discovering it, resulting in people who have followed it for years believing that we are likely at the point where its going to spread exponentially faster and quickly becoming widely used. If they are right then its going keep increasing.

I can only see the media coverage increasing in the future right now.

On the 22nd March there was an article headline that was featured with a picture prominently on the Guardian newspaper's website --

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace


'' As of January 2012 it is the second most popular UK newspaper website, behind the Daily Mail's Mail Online, with a daily average of 2,937,070 browsers to the Mail's 4,838,140,[119] and in April 2011 MediaWeek reported that it is the fifth most popular newspaper site in the world.[120]''

Roughly 3 million people who went to the site that day

Could not miss the article, headlined ''
Silk Road: the online drug marketplace that officials seem powerless to stop''

''Authorities around the world know about the website, but closing it is another matter – partly because it uses Bitcoins''

That day I would estimate maybe 85% of people who saw it had not known about silk road and could order from it almost as easy as shopping on amazon, and a small percentage of them but a significant number when it has such a huge audience of 3 million people will want to get bitcoins, because of its unique fundamentals of anonymity and the number of interesting things that people only accept bitcoins for.

 if its true that you can send through western union and receive bitcoins soon its accessibility and uses increases a lot, and will attract more people.

It can be used very easily to evade tax and that will surely keep attracting new users as offshore banking continues to increase its ease of access due to tighter laws on banks that have grown steadily.

But of course at the same time I'm sure there are things that could happen that could destroy it that are impossible to predict.

After Cyprus people are waking up to the harsh dangerous precedent that has been set - banks in the EU now have the power to take money that one expects to be guarded, without warning, its simple theft and every expert I've spoken to about the future of the Euro think that it is certain the Euro crisis will lead to the southern states of spain and italy going past the point of no return with their debt and collapse, splitting them from the EU and crashing Fiat currency. Its only a matter of time but it looks unavoidable.

People are waking to the fact since the financial crisis normal currency has its own structural problems that mean it inst completely safe either and can be devalued by actions taken by governments.

Also in 2008 the world was reminded that for the past hundred years or more severe economic depressions have repeatedly occurred, and have usually been caused by events and causes that absolutely no one predicted, I haven't seen any real changes that make me believe it won't happen again.

In the west taxes are far beyond levels that help economies, they are so high they cause investment in the private sector to be cut, I think stagnation of growth will last until Europe particularly makes massive changes to its high tax, high state expenditure, high regulation, massive debts and deficits as they are currently.

I think fiat currencies are going to crash and the very large increase in alternatives like gold indicates the markets are reflecting there arent may reasons to expect this problem to improve.

Bitcoins finite coin amount protects it from the problems and has the chance of becoming a realistic safe, alternative if things get worse. If the chance of bitcoins ending up a highly trusted, common way of storing capital, is only 3.5./%, but the 1000's of percent it would increase in value makes it investing as much as you possibly can afford to lose in it as the reward could make you rich,

I think there are lots of fundamental reasons that mean this currency has a chance of
doing this. I'm going to buy as much as I can

I didn't say there wasn't any real trade. I said the increase in the price of bitcoin is way beyond the growth of goods/services, which tells me that the current price is due to speculation and is not therefore not representative of the actual value.

We are seeing 50% fluctuation in a single day, it was around $103~ earlier and went up to $147~. And a few months ago it was under $15. This is not real growth.

My feeling is that most of the people on these forums are extremely mis-informed and are simply spreading the same old bullshit around. Remember, the people telling the stories have the most to gain. It's like a pump and dump salesman who tells you the value is going to shoot through the roof tomorrow so you have to buy today.... It's a self fulfilling prophecy until the penny drops and people start to sell.

Lol +1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7Jv3mwbW4

I'm not saying that it's without risks to invest money in BTC. however, everything carries the same kind of risks. What makes it different, that the protocol brings so much to this world, you should try and comprehend it.

That is the most important factor and it's worth way more than 140$/BTC.

Nobody tells you to buy, or in other words no one should have an effect on your decisions. If you don't have use for BTC then don't buy it, that's all. Also, if you cannot bear the price movements then sell. There'll be people who will buy them from you. ;-)

Sorry if I sounded crude to you, for a moment I was thinking that you mistakenly changed BTC for LTC :)

And of course this is massive speculation and will be in the comming years as the newbies are comming in. If all the future users jump in it would be one-time correction up  :D

I read the same when BTC were at 13, 30, 50, 75, 90.. peoples will still tell this kind of message at 130, 200, 300, 500.. there is always someone for, and someone against, in everything, everywhere..

It's not a bubble, it's a correction  ::)

...

This is ridiculous.

Uh oh, even Theymos can't believe it.  :D

$1000 by the end of the month wouldn't be ridiculous.

I don't think that's necessarily the case for everyone.  I think a lot of people saw what happened in Cyprus where people's money just suddenly disappeared.  That and the crap that happened here in the US in 2008 where again, people's money and savings just vanished overnight.  The lack of confidence in the banks, and the seemingly interesting concept of bitcoin has folks transferring money over, for whatever reason.  Savings?  Use for purchases?  Speculation?  I think it's all three. 

if  aaple AAPL can be worth over $433
price line PCLN $706
google GGOL $811

bitcoin is at least worth $500 and not even close to a bubble. There is no derivative market for bitcoins, price discovery should be alot higher imo maybe at least $1000.

Oh! Oh! (puts hand up) 1whiskD55W4mRtyFYe92bN4jbsBh1sZut!

theymos, my friend: two words, media coverage.
Bitcoin's in the news.
Cyprus' in the news.
People put two and two together: Hm. Their money's just been stolen. Hm. With Bitcoin, that can't happen. *must buy bitcoin*

Then they leave their bitcoins sitting in an exchange or an online wallet.

My dad finally caved and during easter dinner came over and handed me $1500 in cash and said "Here, I don't trust the banks anymore, buy me some BTC." I said ok, then started a Dwolla -> Gox transfer that wont clear until tomorrow. He has probably called me 5 times in the last two days. He just called complaining about how much he has lost by waiting for the transfer to occur. I said dad "This is only the beginning." lol

I know right, I tried to convince him to put a grand in back at $20. I think for him it was that he "Heard about Bitcoin on Glenn Beck on Friday."..... so that somehow makes Bitcoin legit now? Lol Damn backwoods conservatives anyway ;) haha