Bitcoin Forum

For newer cards like Polaris/Ellesmere and Tonga, eth mining is is now more profitable than zec, leading to hashing power switching back to eth.
https://etherscan.io/charts/hashrate

While the price of zec has been dropping (now ~$65), the market cap has stayed in the $3-4M range for several days.  In a month from now I expect the zec price to drop to the $25-$35 range, reducing mining profitability and resulting in more miners switching back to eth.  Difficulty should be back up to 80T within a few weeks, and back up to 100T early in 2017.

Not all that surprising that Zec is still dropping like a rock. I've already been estimating that it'll drop to ~$4 USD/ 1 ZEC , but that is mostly based on what I've seen going on with the ZCL fork.

If ZEC goes to $4, almost all of the GPU mining would go back to ETH (assuming ETH stays around $10), and difficulty would quickly go over 100T.

For me, profitability ends at ~35$/ZEC, I could go lower but then it's just getting payed to use electricity. Going to mine it until it reaches the 40-45$ maybe, to milk the cow, then switching back to ETH I guess.

It's really a shitcoin after all. Just had a read through this https://petertodd.org/2016/cypherpunk-desert-bus-zcash-trusted-setup-ceremony very interesting, even though I don't understand everything.

He may have valid points, but I would personlly never trust a single word from that megalomaniac.

Lol, i don't know the guy, but he seemed to know his stuff.

yeah, i just switched back to eth and i am getting about what i used to get before zec was around...

Basically

RX 470/480 => More profit with ETH especially since you can dual with SIA

R9 290/390 => Borderline equal in profitability currently

Tahiti/Pitcairn => More profit with ZEC especially since no DAG file slowdowns.

I predicted ZEC would join the "basket" of altcoins ballpark 2 weeks back.

 Upgrades to the miners didn't change that - just meant you had to keep upgrading your software to stay competative.

 As of right now, my R9 290s would be less profitable even with the optiminer software than they are running Genoil on ETH - but it's quite close - electric cost MATTERS, someone with high electric cost would probabl be more profitable on ZEC.

 ETH right now is still more profitable than the week before ZEC was launched - but it's slipped down to only being a LITTLE more profitable with the recent price drop.

I've seen your comments before about dual mining, but I think when you look at income vs power consumed, it's not worth it.  Most home miners have to work with a limited amount of power, such as 20Amps x 240V.  With a fixed amount of power, you can have more GPUs mining eth than you can dual mining.  And I think if you crunch the numbers you'll find you make more money from that fixed amount of power mining just eth.
There's also the hard to quantify but real impact of the higher temperatures on component life.  Fans will die sooner, thermal compound will dry out sooner, capacitors will pop sooner...

With Claymore V6 and V7 my Rx 470 uses more power mining ZEC than Eth.  With ETH I can run the core at 1030 while with ZEC I need to run the core >1200 to get the maximum hashrate.

In another week Ethereum will be more profitable to mine than ZEC.  Should be interesting as the majority swaps back to ETH. 

the party is over in just a week from the zec launch in poloniex and i don't think zec will be survive for long time like other coins. and i think for next profitable mining is for ethereum or ethereum classic and don't forget with monero since the price giving a good positive movements. let we see what happen in early december later.

Mining profitability on ZEC has definitely decreased by a ton over the past few days because the first few days the block rewards in terms of Zcash is extremely low and slowly picking up speed.

Right now Zcash is not even at 0.1 BTC level, and I can see it drop through the floor very soon, to something like Ethereum's price right now before a small pump to over .1 BTC level.

Difff is already at 80T.

100T might be next week.

it depend if clymore can really reach crazy speed like 300h/s on a 390, but everyone will increase his hash with that

surely it's not good to mine with nvidia, switched to etheruem some days ago

Of course it's over,every idiot in the world can buy some cards,read forums and make some money from fools.After all we are greedy fuckers searching for easiest way to make money.

saddest true most of us here really looking to take advantage and earn easily that's what happen to this coin miners use every advantage they have and invest with their devices then dumped it for some extra cash its really over because no one is really taking a risk to invest with this project.

This is probably the greatest post in this entire forum.

Yeah, that was sure to happen. I've never been convinced that it would last very long as many people said it.

Every altcoin pro knew this was going to happen, it's not like it's all over for miners, it'd still remain just fine to mine it as it's mining profitability would match the Ethereum in future as well.

Miners just got another option... and it'd not be useless any sooner.

Solid post.

Here are my stats. For last 3 days about .999 Zec  earned let's say it all sold at 0.082 btc

That would give me .082 btc which is close to 60 usd .

My power used was 2 kwatt  that is 144 for 3 days.  Power is .127 a kwatt but the heat warms the home

So make it 10 cents.

So my power used was 14.40 my coin earned was 60.

I made about 45 for the last 3 days.


Most people posting against Zec in this thread are attempting to trick people into. Not expanding mining.


If you understand the math here. Intel AMD and Nvidia can simply buy one or two million usd in Zec coins causing  price to go over .100 btc.

Would be a cheap easy commercial for them.

How many of us would expand their setups if Zec moves over .100 btc

All of us might do that.

What is your hashrate?

I made most of my money mining Eth not when it was trading > $10.00, but back when I could mine several hundred of them in a day. By the time it was trading high the gold rushers were here and you could only mine a fraction of what was possible before. With ZEC it appears to be in reverse, so the opportunity is still ahead of us and not behind as is now with ETH.

Nothing behind for ether either, its potential is honestly bigger than any crypto out there. ;)

I agree that  zec  should take off  not eth

simply based on the market cap  3-5 million for zec   800 mill for eth

both coins exist because asic buiders  own btc  .

We miners like gpu mining because the gear is from real companies.

Intel
AMD
Nvidia

Sapphire
Evga
XFX
Powercolor
Visiontex
HIS
Asus
Gigabyte
Biostar
Asrock
Corsair
Seasonic
Silverstone
Rosewill

All of the above stand to gain with  zec going up in price.

I look for zec to go back  over .1 maybe a lot higher. .2 or .3 are possible.

 At this point, the ONLY cryptocoin that can honestly say "we will survive for the long term" is Bitcoin - nothing else is even on the same PLANET much less in the same ballpark when it comes to market adoption by merchants, and without that there is NO staying power possible for the long term no matter how "technically superior" a coin might be.


 I am very strongly reminded of the Beta vs VHS wars - Beta was hands down technicall superior, but VHS was "good enough" and far better marketed and had much more widespread adoption and support, so Beta died after some years of competition.

I am not selling ZEC for $60. In fact, it it gets to around 50, i would probably buy some outright.
It is probably OK to keep mining some eth so you can get income when it goes POS, then there will be ASIC mining with btc, GPU mining with zec and POS (capital mining) with eth. Nice diversification.

BTC vs ETH/ZEC is nothing close to Beta vs VHS in terms of functionality. They're two completely different ideas built on the blockchain. Yes BTC is here to stay but right now its just a currency. Ethereum type implementations using blockchain totally has a future as well.

notice how the party is over for every altcoin, the overall profitability is declining each day and the hashrate increase, i think we are going to get another "2015 year", with very low profit if you only have 5 cent electricity

Fully agree.
Alternative coins need something with real demand like Bitcoin. ZEC need to work in implementation with e-commerce sites / plugin /api to growing the demand and stabilize the price. If  don't do that we (miners with > 0.10 per kw) are going to die slowly.

BTW it's not a problem.. I'm doing more money with AMD and NVIDIA stocks that mining :)

Yup, couldn't agree more. ZEC was a miner's dream, but it's still young and got stupidly overhyped. Its launch was a complete letdown with the slow start, then there's the 20% founder's reward and the block reward that will increase soon. Not to mention the complete lack of any sort of appropriate mining software on launch day. Every one here spent countless hours getting Genoil's to work correctly.

I want to believe that ZEC will rise from it's ashes, but currently, it's not looking like it will grow back. If you can afford to hold a few ZECs with the absolute belief it will, then go for it, but I still need to pay for electricity. I make more ZECs a day now people start to leave (I'm at 0.15 for 12h, before it was about 0.12) so in theory, I'm making about 13.2$ a day, which is more than what I would achieve on ETH, thanks to the fact that zec needs less power to mine and i have optimized the shit out of my cards. I guess i'll keep a few ZECs to see what happens, but I'm not too optimistic...

once again I disagree.

Zec is so small in market cap  a simple 1 week long buying of coins from

Intel    Chips
Amd    Chips
Nvidia Chips

Seasonic >>> Psu's
Corsair >>>> Psu's , cases , ram
Evga >>>>>> Psu's , Gpu's
Rosewill >>>> Psu's, cases

Asrock     mobos
Asus       mobos, Gpus
Biostar    mobos
Gigabyte mobos,gpus
Msi         mobos, gpus

Microsoft windows

Every one above does well if zec thrives  and that is a small list.

very soon amd will have the rx 490's

I look for a pump in zec very soon.

look below   a pump is very easy to do here.





https://i.imgur.com/o3DajYM.png

even if a pump will happen it will only last not enough to make the profitability great again for a long time like it was with early this year, i think there is too much power hashing right now, too many gpu and still being added

we need a reset to remove some miners from the scene, bad times are good for this reason to restart again with less hash over all the coins combined

but yes the one thing that make me think that there can be another good pump, is the fact that bitcoin is very high in value, and in 2015 bitcoin was in a bad condition

usually this is a good traction for some alt to get pumped to a high level

Sense i like the power Useage of Zec mining,I'm using Claymore miner with fee off and mining on Ant's zcash pool because i can set it to PPS, the 1.5 % pool fee for PPS doesn't brother me . it seems to mine faster with PPS and no fee set for claymore till silent army's windows version at least matches claymore no fee version, then I'll use silent army again . I don't feel bad doing it this way and i pay 1% less in some fees and gonna keep mining Zcash till the end .

Bitcoin is the frontpage of a shiny magazine, but keep in mind that once the page is open, what matters is what is inside the mag. Honestly, I stopped mining btc simply because it is owned by Chinese, not just the mining, but like the whole currency. Every pump is made by Bitmain and alike to empty their bags. Seeing this pattern for over 2 years now. And after the xt debate I honestly demolished my hopes for bitcoin for the future as it won't be able to adapt for further needs, as it seems.

Blockchain is much more than simply being a currency and closest thing to achieve that at the moment is Ether and its just the beginning.

I agree with that totally. I found the total hash of the Ethereum and the ZCash is still increasing and fast.

Hmmm, actually it's lower than before and seems to be slowing down already:

http://www.coinwarz.com/network-hashrate-charts/zcash-network-hashrate-chart

I beat all my records by mining 0.01 in 20 minutes earlier today ^^

Some have drifted to ETH

I have earned .275 zed today.   there are about 8 ½ hours left I could earn .37 - .40 ZEC today

Not bad. I think that people moving back to ETH is a good thing, more ZEC mined per day for us means we can hold on a bit longer...

That might not last long. If it is more profitable to mine ZEC., miners will come back to mine the ZEC.

Well, that's the thing. I'm still mining ZEC because I achieve 1600H/s for 1245W, that's about 0.77W/H because I optimized my rigs properly. I think many miners aren't modding their cards because they don't know how to, don't have the time to or just don't care and they end up with high wattage, so mining a coin that looses about 10% of its value every day quickly becomes a waste of electricity. So, unless ZEC gets to twice the price of ETH in terms of what you mine per day, people might come back indeed.

But it's a good thing if people are leaving ZEC mining for ETH, this might bring the price up a little, who knows.

Also, the hype is over, everybody's had a laugh, made a few bucks and is returning to ETH because ETH is more stable and has all sorts of projects going on (mind you, ETH dropped to 9.5$ not long ago). Nobody takes ZEC seriously anymore (whether they are right or wrong, this I don't know).

like you I am at .75-.80 watts per h  so I am sticking with Zec at the moment.

I kinda drifted off to Monero and Internet of Everything for now, probably going to switch from IOE to ETH after the premine is over.

So using the logic - the coin that will win is the one that the porn industry gets behind (the real reason VHS one)  :D :D :D

cheers

The price will never go up on this coin for a very long time. This was the first coin in a while that didn't have a huge pre-mine and started with zero on day one. People forget that when Bitcoin/Litecoin came out, there were millions of coins minted before people became of aware/mass adaption started. At that point each block added was like .00001% of total supply...right now each block added by ZEC is like .1% so as long as people think the value of ZEC is 4million, the price will always be pushed down by a fast rate.

This wont change for at least a year or two...when ZEC supplies reach into the millions.

The problem is that there are WAY TOO MANY Tom, Dick, and Harrys that are getting involved with mining.

First they start off with 1 GPU and make money, and then next month they get an entire rig, and in 3 months they max out their house's power by filling it up with 30-40 GPUs.

All this causes the difficulty to rise, and makes mining very unprofitable for everybody.

Right now ETH + ZEC miners revenue daily is slightly below $600,000. Which means for constant profit with constant difficulty there needs to be $600,000 of buyers of ZEC + ETH to keep everything stable.

I also think if BTC breaks the all time barrier of ~$1100 or so then it will be a great time for mining in general. But I am worried like most here and that 2017 will become like 2015 with mining being hardly profitable.

You are lumping Zec with under 4,000,000 market cap with eth which has an 750,000,000 plus market cap.

Feeding cash to prop up Zec is easy and cheap.

Feeding cash to prop up eth is a lot more costly.

Right now I estimate 25,000,000 in gear is Mining Zec.

I have said it once and I will say it again.  Sellers of gpus, CPUs , mobos , atx power supplies , ram can easily prop up Zec price.  They would need to feed much more money to do this with eth.

I see Zec hanging in there for at least another six months. Once a lot of,coins are mined it could fade.

I made the most profit on q1 and q2 of 2015 where I mined ninja coins. Maybe it will be hardly profitable for those who mine steady.

I don't disagree with you, but you can't blame the average Joe for thinking "Woohoo, free money" *homer voice*

It's just part of the game, I've been mining for a few months only myself, but in the process I've learned quite a few things in trading and hardware optimization, it's been really fun. Also, most home miners don't have immense budgets and end up with maybe 2-3 rigs max, I doubt that this really makes that much of a difference against farms with hundreds of rigs.

You're going with the assumption that if less people were mining, it would be better for everyone, but imo this isn't true for 2 reasons:

-Less global hashrate means less computing power for many altcoins which in return would likely also mean less value for the coins themselves. ETH sure as hell wouldn't be what it is today without miners, same goes for the entire altcoin scene
-Less miners also would likely push most altcoins to PoS rapidly which would render mining useless anyway

I don't think more global hashrate makes the coin more valuable, if anything it makes it less valueable because people need to dump the coin to pay for electricity and GPUs.

Most miners never hold the coin or buy more of it, they just dump and profit. That's why ETH wants to move to POS to avoid this because it kills the coins value.

i think you are wrong, those average joe, are not 1-2 person, they are hundred/thousand, so thounsand of random guys with 1-3 rig, will make a difference for sure

The guys with free electricity at home will make the big farms unprofitable. There are thousands of them.

Oh yes!  This is to be contrasted with the self sacrifice, the Noblesse Oblige, the honorable intentions of the commercial miners who have no goal but to further crypto currencies to an exalted future, mere peasant concerns with  financial gain be damned.

free electricity at home? by the thousands?  Who are they?

Free in that rent pays power.  So setting up a four card rig of zec  pulls 400 watts for 500H  (under-clock under-volt)

I am sure the 3000 people in the world could do this.  3000 x 500 = 1,500,000 H

that is about ?% of network        23,092,298

1,500,000/23,092,298 = 6.49%

 In my house I run 2400H using  about 2000 watts.
 I could bump to 3000 watts with cold weather. But my power is 12.7 cents in the winter  the heat has about 2.7 cent value

So I am a 10 cent guy in house.

how i see it , it's not over till it's over and it's not over yet . it's gonna keep going up and down for a while . how long no idea . some say a month or two but well see, i keep mining Zec. low or high .!! with ETH thrown in for a few hours @ a time not because ZEC drops down, i switch off a few cards to eth when it gets better etc and back to mining ZEC as needed.

You must have competitive access to natural gas.  Did I read you are in the NJ area?  Cheap natural gas also makes for cheap wholesale power.  See http://pjm.com/.  That usually leads to lower retail rates; a guy from PA with a small ETH farm told me he was paying ~5c/kWh.  Even if he left out taxes & meter fees, that should be not much more than 6c.

I'm in Atlantic Canada and pay the equivalent of US 12c/kWh.  Electricity and oil are the main winter heat sources around here, and in the few places natural gas is available it's no cheaper than oil for heating.  That means means for about 4 months of the year my effective cost for electricity after deducting the heat value is 6c/kWh.

same in Maryland but here we can pick who we buy the power from but have to stay with the company that disturbs the power and mine is with fees 11 some changes so id say 12 cents if you let the power company do it all it cost even more 14 to  15 cent per kwh with fees direct from the Power company but without fees for the next year 7.60 cents per Kwh. no peak hours, fixed price no matter how much i use .the real power company is the one that disturbs the power not the suppliers in Maryland.

ZEC and Ethereum will level out to be about even profit wise, you will always have a large group of people jumping ship from one to another causing an imbalance between the 2,

My predictions from a few days after Zcash launched were it will come down to meet Ethereum, Why? Because when it's more profitable, everyone leaves to mine it, flooding the market, dropping price, less demand for buyers and more sellers just selling at market value chunking into the buy orders to offload coins.  Simple supply and demand.

Once price drops, people switch back to Ethereum when it once again becomes more profitable, swinging the balance once again, George of the Jungle comes to mind!

All in all, Zcash of course will drop in price, it will continue to drop as the block rate keeps increasing.  It's block rate started low and is increasing, hence more coins are available, you can't expect more and more coins to be rewarded each block and price to remain at the same values, just won't happen.

Either way, it opens up a longer period of mining for all GPU users :) Be happy.

Here in MB we pay about 0.06us$ for electricity, but my NG furnace has not come on yet this year.  Since NG usually costs me twice what electricity does, I figure I get free electricity.

If you switch when the ZEC is more profitable, but the payment takes a while, so when it hits the exchange, the price could be lower.

Could you be a little more short term please. ;D ( Just kidding )

Profitability goes down - ETC/ETH are more better for mining

No stability in this world :)

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/leowtf.gif

ETC/ETH burn through power (and most other crypto that has a PoW component), they might be more profitable, but at what cost to the environment? (unless you're running the entire operation on Off-Grid Solar, or another clean energy source.)

ZEC still more profitable than ETC or ETH. not sure where these people are getting there calculations at.  :-)

 It depends quite a bit on your cost of power, and on WHAT you are mining with.

 It's not a "it's more" or "it's less" flat out truth for all, especially since the profitability on all 3 has been pretty close for the last week or so.



 As for my power - it's all (or nearly all) hydro, and 100% renewable, where I'm at.



 BTW - I'm still giggling occasionally at the idea of "AMD" or "NVidia" propping up the ZEC market. Mining cards might be a noticeable percentage of their market, but AT THIS TIME they're probably moving about every chip they CAN build as it is - the extra *maybe* 1% additional cards sales due to mining taking a big (by mining standards) jump isn't at all likely to be worthwhile to them when they're already selling bloody near every chip they can get out of available foundry capacity.

 Keep in mind that NEITHER have put out any new "budget" level cards yet - that's where the BIG number of sales happen, along with "on-board" chipsets for low-level laptops and entry-level machines (though APUs seem to be taking over most of that market of late).
 AMD also has next year's launch of the "Zen" series 14/16nm CPUs and APUs to keep the foundry capacity available to them overloaded.

 ZEC also burns through power - just not quite as much of it.

 For those with higher power costs I'm sure that's a significant factor in their profitability.

Yes ZEC can keep falling like a rock to lower levels, but for the past 2 days it has found some support and in fact appreciated abit although it seems like trying to suckering in some newbies. I am bearish like anyone else on Zcash and I think it can test Monereo levels.

I am very bullish on zCash

I will be so until the market cap  grows to over 50,000,000 USD
,
It is so cheap to pump zec  and there are 25,000,000 in mining machines mining it as I type.

once again

psu companies
ram companies
cpu companies
gpu companies
ssd and hdd companies
motherboard companies  

all stand to gain by supporting zec via coin purchases .

no commercial or promotion would be better.

look at zec cap
https://www.coingecko.com/en/market_cap/zcash/usd

only 5 million

look at eth cap

https://www.coingecko.com/en/market_cap/ethereum/usd

over 850 million

So since both coins doing okay works for all those companies listed above if you are one of the above companies   which one of the two d you pick to bump price.

you pick zec  for now 100,000  in purchase would keep coin steady or rise just a bit.

these numbers hold for a long time.  At worse until Jan at best far longer.

Yup, and as I've stated many times, if you take the time to mod your rigs properly, a ZEC rig will mine at 75% the wattage needed for ETH (if not better), that's what I get on my 470s. Hence, ZEC profitability, even at 50$/ZEC is still a bit better than ETH, for me at least.

Also, it looks like the 50$ range is kind of the current resistance price for ZEC, I haven't seen it drop below that

Zec rallied again close to 70 usd.

Like I said 100,000 in usd  to buy coins and the coins jumped up from  .070 to .089 btc .

This will be something to do for at least a few months.

To me I see another bump over .125 btc before Dec 21St

I hope that will happen. That means it is profitable mining again for the miners with very high electricity price.

It seems the price of the ZCash has stopped dropping temporally. It is still above the recent lows for two days.

https://z.cash/blog/security-announcement-2016-11-22.html
can someone explain?

There's a security bug in zcash, and instead of taking full responsibility, the Wilcox boys are pointing the blame for any potential problems at miners (pools) who don't instantly upgrade.
So if the bug is exploited, the can say they released a fix and warned everyone, and since they can't force miners (pools) to upgrade, it's not their fault.

 Same mods tend to also help ETH/ETC et cetera - but ZEC does seem to use less power.
 I was "only" noticing about a 20% improvement going from ETH to ZEC on my 1070s though.

[

Also, it looks like the 50$ range is kind of the current resistance price for ZEC, I haven't seen it drop below that
[/quote]

Not to split hairs but if the resistance is below you its called support price or level. I know you know what you meant, but lets help the newbies to technical trading.


A support level is a level where the price tends to find support as it falls. This means the price is more likely to "bounce" off this level rather than break through it. However, once the price has breached this level, by an amount exceeding some noise, it is likely to continue falling until meeting another support level.

A resistance level is the opposite of a support level. It is where the price tends to find resistance as it rises. This means the price is more likely to "bounce" off this level rather than break through it. However, once the price has breached this level, by an amount exceeding some noise, it is likely to continue rising until meeting another resistance level.

When  a support level is breached it is likely to become resistance level, and vise versa.

Technical analysis is based on history and we do not have enough history on ZEC to actually do any valuable analysis yet.

The approximately  $53 or .0722 BTC level appears to be support at this time. Typically this level will need to be retested, maybe several times.

What is interesting is that we have a moving average cross over for the first time in ZEC existence on the 2HR charts.
It will be weeks, or even months before we will have usable data on the daily charts, unless you are just looking for the downward trend to continue, but this could be about as dangerous as pre selling ZEC tokens before it launched at $.09.

Until we have a longer price data time frame, and we reach full block reward the best gauge of price or value will be the ZEC mining profitability VS ETH mining profitability from a miners prospective, and at this point what else do we have.

I know the profitability does not absolutely dictate price, but it will raise and lower hashrate to keep ZEC profitability at a approximate parity to ETH profitability.

I believe that this will be the case near term until utilization, store of value, or something else takes over.    

Just my .02705 mBTC  
  

Yep sorry misuse of word, I meant support. Thanks for the detailed explanation though, I'm not a pro trader  ;)

fixed the quoting though  ;D

Not to split hairs but if the resistance is below you its called support price or level. I know you know what you meant, but lets help the newbies to technical trading.


A support level is a level where the price tends to find support as it falls. This means the price is more likely to "bounce" off this level rather than break through it. However, once the price has breached this level, by an amount exceeding some noise, it is likely to continue falling until meeting another support level.

A resistance level is the opposite of a support level. It is where the price tends to find resistance as it rises. This means the price is more likely to "bounce" off this level rather than break through it. However, once the price has breached this level, by an amount exceeding some noise, it is likely to continue rising until meeting another resistance level.

When  a support level is breached it is likely to become resistance level, and vise versa.

Technical analysis is based on history and we do not have enough history on ZEC to actually do any valuable analysis yet.

The approximately  $53 or .0722 BTC level appears to be support at this time. Typically this level will need to be retested, maybe several times.

What is interesting is that we have a moving average cross over for the first time in ZEC existence on the 2HR charts.
It will be weeks, or even months before we will have usable data on the daily charts, unless you are just looking for the downward trend to continue, but this could be about as dangerous as pre selling ZEC tokens before it launched at $.09.

Until we have a longer price data time frame, and we reach full block reward the best gauge of price or value will be the ZEC mining profitability VS ETH mining profitability from a miners prospective, and at this point what else do we have.

I know the profitability does not absolutely dictate price, but it will raise and lower hashrate to keep ZEC profitability at a approximate parity to ETH profitability.

I believe that this will be the case near term until utilization, store of value, or something else takes over.    

Just my .02705 mBTC  
  
[/quote]

  Pretty much agree.  I also think  that 50-55 will be the bottom for quite a while.
 This coin is really in a different spot then most coins there are so few of them and price is high.

The "real ZEC party" is just starting soon :) its to early to say its over .
zcash mining is still in a "slow-start" period during the first 20,000 blocks where the block reward linearly increases to 12.5 ZEC.

I agree I never gave up or even came close to giving up with Zec mining, i went to ETH every now and then for a few hours that was a waste of time for me.
ETH mining was never really profitable after Zec mining started but that's up for debate with some, i won't get in to it .

CM 8 just came out my R7370 went from 88 sol to 117 Sol, i haven't switched my other cards yet and SA it about to do the same with it's windows version for AMD cards or close in speeds .

I use antminer's Zcash Pool and I know some look at me, well you know,  i Like PPS payouts, is there another Pool that does PPS for ZEC mining ?  if there is i will use it over antminers ZC pool.

Thanks top .

For the old cards like the R 7 370 or the R9 280(x), it is better to stick to the ZCash. It is more profitable there.

Not profitable any  more.

It will be as same as with ethereum a year ago -  period of almost zero profitability and then sudden pump a few months later. You have to wait out this period, do not sell your equipment now, you will thank me later.

My thoughts exactly.

This is the same pattern that happened with Ethereum, when those who stuck it out were able to mine cheap blocks due to the low interest/difficulty and when it pumped later they made out big time.

mining zec until jan 27th 2017.

thats is my birthday  and I will sell off my 20-30 coins then

Let's keep this on the downlow, but word on the street is that the pump starts on the 28th January.  :D

According to CMC available supply right now is 255456 ZEC.

576x(10+2.5)=7200 new zec are generated every day, that is 2.8% DAILY inflation. That number needs to get much lower before this can go up.

Serious market manipulation starts when you can trade this on margin and that doesn't happen before it finds some ground under its feet.

ZCL and ZEC are by no means over - we haven't even seen what happens when a Dark Market or legit vendor adopts the coin as a payment method.

Truly anon transactions also have a plethora of real world uses outside of the dark markets and criminal activity.

I think when Ethereum goes POS masses of the hashing power will move to ETC, ZCL and ZEC making coin production more difficult and with coin adoption going on in sync the price will surely rise and ETH will continue to fall. I believe we are already seeing this happen.

I mean, neither of the Zs even have a Windows wallet yet.

I have no clue why anyone is mining ETH, apart from using the Ethereum system it has no use. Also with all the Forks and issues I think people are loosing faith in ETH.

People are just tripping out because the profitability is no longer outrageously high.

Hold your coins people, or at least short sell them inline with the pumps

Is there an exchange where you can short this?

Not that I know of, it would be crazy if there was.

I meant I have been, for example, selling my ZCL around 0.0006 and buying back around 0.0005 using same amount BTC earned. Not exactly a short but same principle.

Not sure about ZEC as it seems to be a solid down trend

you lost quite a bit phil, if you indeed held those coin until now, they were at a much higher price before

zcash can not return to its glory price, there is simply too much supply per day involved, too much for the buyers

Negative captain. People were not ready for ETH like they are ready for ZEC. The ship has sailed down the ZEC river and headed to waterfall valley.

30 ZEC is just about $1000. So it is a risk worth taking.

It seems the rate of drop has slowed somewhat.

They are trying to build a wall at ~0.04btc, it needs about 320btc to go through that wall if those bids are real. Looks big but it is actually only one day supply of zec.

We well see how long that wall holds...

The price is stable between 0.043 to 0.048.

24 hours so far. I call it stable if it stays 3-4 weeks in that area.

Just saying...

https://s29.postimg.org/ipbxyrsyf/Screenshot_from_2016_12_20_17_47_19.png

 AFAIK there is no Cryptocoin exchange that allows short selling.

 I'm actually a bit shocked Poloniex has support for margin trading.

Are you joking, of course there is ))

Those exchanges are actually places where real profits in cryptoworld are made, mining is like child's play compared to trading with leverage.

https://youtu.be/BeKbltL3kCw

I trade with the Poloniex. You cannot short there.

That is right. the general trend is still down.

You can, but not zec. First crypto so far to get listed on big (fiat) exchanges on day 0, now we are looking at day 60 and still no margin trading for obvious reasons.

What a surprise, day later that same ~320 btc support is at ~0.036. It is getting closer to levels where only true believers mine it.

 Margin trading is NOT short selling.

 VERY different concepts.

You are right, different concepts. But for me as a speculator result is same.

edit: you can short sell some cryptos, some of those tickers I've never heard. Looks like daytrader needs to do nightshift today.

In Poloniex, you can borrow ETH and sell fist. Is that short selling?

It seems to me like... there are big whales behind ZEC, just like Ethereum. They are not letting this party get finished, and constant time-to-time pumping is providing some relaxation to the miners, good for us though.

You borrow 10 eth at 0.01 (0.1 btc total) and sell it. Eth crashes to 0.005, you buy that 10 eth back (0.05 total) and pay your loan. You end up with 0.05 btc minus expenses. If you used leverage, for example 3x, you earn 0.15.

You really need to know what you are doing, you can loose everything really fast,always have stop orders set to limit your losses. And do not pay too much for that loan.

Exactly my thoughts.

And to follow up on this thought. The market cap for Zec is tiny so a pump is cheap to do.

The cap is about 12.5 million

A pump of 1 million bucks will raise prices 10 to 20 percent

So  what do the Intel commercials in the USA with the guy from Big Bang theory cost?

If Intel and AMD and various mobo companies toss money at this coin it will allow for more sales of their gear.

Zec will not die for a long time.

Corsair
Seasonic
Evga
Biostar
Gigabyte
AMD
Intel
Msi
Power color
Sapphire


Fsp
Antec
Silver stone

All of the above will sell more gear if Zec does well.

Market cap is under 13 million so a boost every few weeks should last for months

I'm mining and holding ZEC for 24+ months. Either it witters away or we will see it as darknets new darling and $500+ million market cap

Do not say that zcash party is over, zcash party not yet started. HYIP was at first month , but now zcash will look for application on darknet markets.

The Zcash is consolidating.

ZEC value has risen almost 50% in the past 24 hours, see, someone is definitely backing it up, and it is most likely the founder burning some of his big 20% founder's fee.

Good for us anyways, I mean, the miners.

While more people might have been ready to mine ZEC on launch, you must also consider that Ethereum actually had 72 million coins in existence before normal miners could mine the first block. So even now Ethereum's equivalent to ZEC's "founders reward" stands at nearly 80% of the total coin supply.

So in this regard ZEC has an even better chance of another surge as the current 20% founders reward is not a heavy weight hanging over its head as is the case with Ethereum.

until now, zcash is swing back to go up in poloniex market and ready to go up, i hope its a good news for us as i have zcash in my wallet and ready to sell it  ;D but i wonder, can zcash go up until 0.1 btc in new year?

look at these ratios

http://coinmarketcap.com/


 gear mining btc    2,380,716,564 GH/s that is 183,000 s9's and that is 274,500,000 usd  plus psu's

cap is 14,582,607,308 usd so 18.82%

gear mining eth

5976 gh  that is 200,000 rx 480's and that is 42,000,000 usd


cap is 631,622,906 usd    so 6.65%  




gear mining zec  

55 mh  is 275,000 rx 480s say  57,750,000 usd

cap is 15,392,931 usd   so 375.17%


So gear value to cap value ratios

BTC    18.82%
ETH      6.65%
ZEC  375.17%

DO THESE HAVE MEANING?

if they do  zec    will soar in value

or  BTC and ETH will crash in value.

LOOK AT THIS LIST:

cpu
AMD
INTEL

gpus
GIGABYTE
MSI
ASUS
SAPPHIRE
XFX
VISIONTEK
POWERCOLOR


psus
CORSAIR
EVGA
SEASONIC
COOLER MASTER
ROSEWILL
THERMALTAKE
SILVERSTONE
ANTEC

mobos
ASUS
GIGABYTE
MSI
ASROCK
EVGA
SUPERMICRO
FOXCONN

ram
G.SKILL
CORSAIR
CRUCIAL
HYPERX
GEIL

ssds
SAMSUNG
CRUCIAL
INTEL
SANDISK
ADATA
OCZ


hdds
WESTERN DIGITAL
SEAGATE
HGST
TOSHIBA

pcs
DELL
LENOVO
HP

switches
Dlink
Trendnet
Netgear
TP-Link


all of the above companies have skin in the game.  they all can send money in on zec at exchanges as advertising expense.

I own

35 gpus
12 mobos
12 cpus
12 psus
3 switches
12 ssds and or hdds
16 sticks of ram

why is that zec is at a good price that owning all of the above makes sense.

and with the market cap at only 15 million  this should last for a while.

when the zec slow mining start,any time frame or block number

Yep, someone is burning btc running aggressive buyingbot, need to look green against btc. Quite boring to watch when there are no shorts to squeeze, but good for miners as you said. How much ammo that bot has remains to be seen.

well the profit is always the same, the diff is catching up quickly, actually worst just now, and by looking at the daily supply cap it's very difficult to even reach 0.1 per zec

Without this bot average mining gpu would be under $1/ day revenue, enjoy it while you can.

OT: look at eth charts, someone wants cheaper eth  ;D

Slow start has ended. Thet was from 28 October to 2 December. Now it goes with full reward 12.5 ZEC for block.

There will be more bots this will occur time and time again until the bots cost to much to do.

I estimate this coin to stand or be propped up as long as cap is lower then 35 million.

Since cap is around 15 mill we should be good for 50-65 days of buy bots.

Yup, that can be a case too. Even if only one of those big companies want to pump ZEC, they can do it with ease. It seems like we are going to get time-to-time pumps to ZEC.

... some Miners with low E-Prices might still be in ROI,
but I do not think,
all of the 8732.3171 kSol/s running at nicehash 4 BTC
are really °°°.

Looks like a big bubble.


 ;D PanneKopp

P.S. some "Mining-Rig-Investors" will cry

why do you see a bubble  and I see an opportunity?

market cap of 15 million makes pump cheap .

and the list of companies above  that stand to make a lot more sales if this coin sticks around is a long list of big money companies.

You do realize that a  10 million usd  pump put in by AMD  would jack coin price from .052 to .111 easy

and if 2 or 3 of the companies above all decide to do a pump  coin can go to 0.3 or 0.5 no problem.


Look for a big pump when AMD releases the rx 490 and rx 490x

 Which is probably the ONLY member of that list that mining has ever caused a measurable "sales blip" for.

 Keep in mind though - of every "AMD GPU" that is sold, AMD themselves likely realise at most 20% and more likely 10-15% of the final retail sale price on.

 It would take MANY tens of milliions in "additional sales" to miners to pay AMD back for a $10 million price intervention like like has been suggested.

 Keep in mind that the very very limited number of chip making facilities that CAN make the GPUs for the current generation cards have been BACKLOGGED the entire time they've had any production at all, which puts a severe limit on how many "additional" cards IF ANY are capable of being sold.

 Some folks wonder why BitMain keeps "selling out" so often on the various S9 batches.
 I am 100% CERTAIN the reason is that they can't get the CHIPS on a reliable basis to keep up with demand for the SAME REASON.


 If ZEC had gone live 2 years ago, or 1-2 years from now, it might make SOME sense for AMD to pump the market - right now, it makes pretty much zero sense.

i think all those COINS controlled by : Miner's Maker, Exchanges, Investors, Renters etc....
so hard to get the correct status and stat...
 

exactly  which is why the pumps are not 10 million when they come.

You realize the pump that just past had 2,000,000  usd in action on pump day.

if you have 4 accounts on a major exchange  and use:

 a to sell to b
to sell to c
to sell to d
to sell to a
to sell to b
to sell to c
to sell to d

and boom a pump at  a lower cost then 2,000,000 

This will not end  for quite a while.  Why is that  simple the market cap is low and it is cheap to do so.