Bitcoin Forum

I came back from school like 3 hours ago , I first checked preev.com and the price was 747$ or something now It's currently 715$ . I now know for sure that this definitely some manipulation by some rich millionaires and It has nothing to do with India cash news. Feel free to share your thoughts !

Dont see why the markets have any influence on bitcoin at all or any other that involves fiat.
If you can tell me otherwise I would be grateful.
Isn't bitcoin supposed to be independent from Fiat currencies?

$732-733 in the Chinese exchanges and around $715-721 In the other ones. Manipulation? Maybe. Trading et al. sure.
That is bitcoin and it will remains like that :)
Big whales, where is kwukduck? :P

it never had anything to do with india other than an excuse for a pump by no one new. same goes for cyprus, greece and plenty of stuff in the future too.

It is but Bitcoin is also based on supply and demand , If (for example) governments makes something to their citizen and don't allow them to withdraw most of their cash from banks etc... people will eventually want to switch for something else where they have more freedom (Bitcoin in this case) and the price will logically increase as there is more demand. As for the manipulation by millionaires as I said then they are Bitcoin holders themselves.

Or it might be that some people just took profits. No-one ever got poor from taking profits.

I would love to give them a piece of my mind, you know plenty of curse words.
Greedy mofos same people who manipulate fiat cant help themselves, they want a piece of all the pies.

And thanks Omega.

So, you are stil going to school? I know it's irrelevant, just noticed that you are obviously very young Bitcoin user.  :)
I don't agree this is necessary a manipulation. The price is determined by market, supply and demand and volatility is natural process.

Ya it is true that their are big whales and some Chinese exchanges which are manipulating bitcoin price but their is also one more reason of Indian users who are now converting their fiat currency to bitcoin so that they can clear their black money

The holidays are coming! Also reach people decide to buy gifts for their parents!

:D Ok I am just kidding, but when there is a good pump, some traders could decide to close their position and get the money. THat's it.
Maybe a big whale today decide to short some btc ! I think in the next days (or in one week) we can see again price rising up!

The price has been subject to manipulation from the very beginning. Weird that you come to the conclusion that the price is being manipulated right now. No price level is safe from being demolished. This volatility is what traders are anticipating on. It's well known that the price can't be maintained at these levels for long.

Well in the last hour price is raising again. From bitfinex 6:45 pm price was 711 $ - now is 725 $.
Bitcoin price volatility is "normal for bitcoin" .


And I guess (as I have already write in this thread) in the next days price will rising again.

It definitely might go up again, but the price is stuck around the $750 levels as there is no upwards potential from that point. Even if we do go to that level again, we'll see another dump like we are experiencing today. That's why these levels are great to secure profits at, or choose to keep holding.

Of course the manipulation is real. I'm just surprised at how late you realized it. I guess it's better late than never. I'm laughing at those who still claim it's all supply and demand, market volatility, blah blah blah, such stupidity abounds here on this stupid forum.

OSS, the bitcoin market is a wild one--but it's only a $10bln market.  That's pretty damn small, relatively speaking.  Bank of America is $200bln, Coca-Cola is $175bln.  So yeah, it could be a bitcoin whale, or it could be a bunch of medium or small sellers/buyers, who knows?

Every time a stock or precious metal or commodity takes a huge dump, the conspiracy-minded folks start screaming about manipulation.  Well how about the bull market we've had that brought us to bitcoin at $750, or the Dow at 19,000?  Do people think that's manipulation as well?  Any time you buy and sell, you're affecting the market (however small).  I have a hard time believing that this recent price action is some sort of concerted effort on someone's part to drop the price. 

I also think it was a group of muslims who flew planes into the World Trade Center, but that's crazy I know...

i stopped believing that India is the reason when i found out they were talking about localbitcoins prices not a real Indian bitcoin exchange service for example.

and about the price, this always happens, so it is normal. the $30 fluctuation even up to $50 has been a normal thing with bitcoin. whenever there is a rise, there is a cashout too so that whales can take out their money and then buy back in lower price (e.g. sell at 747 buy at 715)

and that's why we called them whales because they really can do manipulation so better to play with them buy when the price still cheap then sell when we see some crashed is happening then buy back its only a matter of timing and good assessment how to play with the fluctuation the thing is we should know when the whale will attack the market and make the moves.

In my opinion, this is just because bitcoin prices are well driven by supply and demand for it and no other. Also, since the population of bitcoin users, buyers and sellers is still tiny compared to other traded securities, stocks, currency, etc., hence the fluctuation is noticeable.

i dont think this is about indian cash news and i personally always believe that there are big manipulations for bitcoin price which is conducted by some of millionaires that's why i could not do anything if the price dropped or rise up with rapidly especially on cryptocurrency anything could be happen and those millionaires always will utilize recent issues are being discussed in the world to manipulate bitcoin price

Obviously the volume indian bitcoin exchange platform is not that big to put any effect on global bitcoin market.

Looking at the current swings, i am also quite sure that this can't be anything other than pure manipulation. But in long terms whales even can't hold bitcoin price down.

Every price correction/dump is opportunity to buy more for long term holding.

Unless real significant news about btc will arise and alter the price, this kind of volatility will always come and go especially when most bigtime speculative traders do a pump and dump strategy, although it hurts a lot of small traders but in the end we all know this is how it goes ever since.

Do not look at the short term volatility and panic, because it's loaded with mini pump and dumps. The long term is a much better indication of what is happening, because it gradually grows stronger over time. Just a year or more ago, it was averaging out at +/- $400 and now it is in between $600 to $700.

The day traders are making a ton of money, playing off these mini Pump n dumps, but it is not for the weak at heart. 

very difficult to predict all of this. because bitcoin is designed for highly mobile and very difficult to predict. there must be consequences for getting better results.

Yes indeed that's why most big traders tend to manipulate the prices all by themselves. And that affects the small time traders tremendously which ironically comprises more than half of all bitcoin traders

It's a group effort by very wealthy traders across different exchanges to shake off weak hands. It happens quite regularly, which lends itself perfectly for people taking benefit of these price swings. If you do it well, and you have a trading balance of at least 20-30BTC for regular buying and dumping purposes, then you could have made yourself an easy $300-$350 in a matter of a few hours. Manipulation is always real. Without this manipulation causing volatility, traders wouldn't bother to jump into Bitcoin trading as much as is the case right now.

bitcoin price movements in my opinion is full of manipulation. sometimes a lot of great players who could control. I was quite worried when not everyone has access to bitcoin.

Its back to $736 right now, I'm not sure if its just normal trading influence or if there is really some manipulation going on, but if its manipulation that it seems one group wants BTC to fall while the other group wants its to rise  ??? or is that too paranoid sh*t lol  

bitcoin is still small so it becomes a lot easier to manipulate the price even with a small news or a very small nudge on the price to go down or up but i wouldn't worry or call it manipulation in a topic just because of a $30 or so change! this is regular for me when it comes to bitcoin :)

I'd love me some good theories. But honestly, I think a lot of people just decided to sell it all at once, because it fluctuated around $750 so much (going slightly down, slightly up). That caused the price to drop pretty quickly.

Now that the prices were lower again ($714 I believe), people bought it again and so the cycle continues.
Hopefully we'll reach $1000 again in January 2017.

Might be influence caused by an attempt of manipulation. Yes basically riding the current trend to prevent being a "missed one". If does, then the manipulation is succesfully executed.

When there is a big price movement whether to increase or decrease, let's say minimum of $10-$15 margin movement "in just a matter of short time", it can cause a big impact. After such rapid increase, expect a some price dips and with that amount stated it can caused a tremendous price decrease while on the other hand, that amount can also triggered price increase. With people riding the waves, they are helping the trend started by those people involved in starting that trend.

Just my own view as I don't see any major news to considered as great factor why the price today behaves like that.

The price of bitcoin was really amaze me and i can't even know that it will hit on that point but the priice of bitcoin will be back just wait this is just a part of bitcoin decreasing the price and it will be increase soon that's why there are traders to control it and to buy more bitcoins even they manipulate it to make money too.

Well, I guess manipulate the price really can do. it could probably be done by major companies that have very many bitcoin, but I am pretty sure the current price rise is not subject to manipulation, since this is proof that bitcoin has become popular, so the current price rise is not due to manipulation

Do not be so paranoid. While I agree that bitcoin is always being manipulated, I suggest not to think to deep about it. There is no conspiracy against bitcoin. It is simply some rich whales selling and getting out of the market.

Right. Bitcoin is so diverse that it is already hard for whales to control or manipulate the market. Though if they altogether dump their bitcoins, it will have a significant effect on the price of bitcoin.

What about people in India buying bitcoins for 16% more than the global price?

I think the sheeps goes together, when the price start to increase, everyone buy and hold, buy and sell for a higher price...

I really don't if there's just "one"(few) people behind it.

not only one people can manipulation bitcoin price
if you want manipulation you must have big capital money, only cooperation company
or team work much people can manipulation bitcoin price

In every action there is an equivalent reaction.  As for the bitcoin price, whenever there is some event and being capitalized by the whales, sheeples will follow and there goes the domino effect.  All it need is a good reason to make the  initial action valid and then people will believe it and act according to the plan of manipulators.

right. bitcoin cannot be controlled or manipulated by a single person anymore. It will take a large group of people with a large amount of bitcoin to make the market move a bit.

There are people that make a living of this. And unlike the stock markets for example, Bitcoin markets are not regulated and this means they can try any dirty tricks they want.
Even the FUD spread on this very forum from time to time is there to allow them speculate easier on the price.
Whatever news are around, they are pumped to the max to allow a later dump. (So this time it may have been slightly related to India news, but that was just a timely pretext).
Yes, the manipulation is real. I find it interesting that some still have to "discover" this, but the existence of this thread could be useful for some.

The market in Inda is too insignificant to make an impact on the Western and Chinese exchanges, where you also see that barely anyone takes their market serious.

People are indeed like sheeps as they prefer to do things in group form. If you look at how many people are asking for advice in troll boxes you'll be surprised that they actually take that information for granted.

You at all times should avoid listening to what others are saying. Even not when it's a group advicing you. Quite often they try to mislead you for their own benefit.

Do your own research before you start buying. If you make a mistake, then it's because of you having made a wrong investment, and not because others are pushing you towards losses intentionally. Because these people are really there.

I agree that no individual is capable of moving the price significantly unless we are talking about someone with deep pockets and a stake in it. Any hypothetical investment fund entering the market can propel the price within days as the actual liquidity is quite low.

i don't think that person will do this unless that person will gain something good with the manipulation he made, beside that, he only see that the price is playing for up and down very often.

Manipulation will keep happening as long as the market is small enough that wealthy whales can cooperate and attack it with big swings. Coordinated attacks on exchanges, bribing.. anything is possible with enough money. If someone wants to attack bitcoin, all he needs is unlimited money to pay all the big exchanges an huge amount of money in order to claim they got "hacked" to crash the price.

When bitcoin is way bigger, those shady tactics will barely have any effect as the marketcap will be too big and the impact will be quickly absorbed.

It's possible that it is manipulation, this happens in almost every market. In my opinion, the price may drop a bit more. However, after this phase of dumps, we may see Bitcoin recovering even stronger.

There's no manipulation happening in bitcoin don't judge too quick because this is a normal in bitcoin when the price of bitcoin in decreasing and increasing ofcourse we have investors and traders that's why the bitcoin price is not that stable and It's look like manipulating by someone or country.

I too see right now no pump or dump is happening to worry about. Still, due to recent crisis Indian markets are heavily bumped but failed to be followed in international markets (maybe Indian markets are isolated due to their regulations). Almost every bitcoin exchange is trading so stable, it is a good witness of manipulation-free days.

Well if the crisis in india will than the price maybe will be back again in the price when india crisis is started.. i think 749 usd it will back soon or this following month we will see more price increase or pump.. we are lucky that the price still in good price unlike last year that the price before end of november we are experience of dumping.. and panic sell.

I don't see that as a manipulation in the currency. Its small price volatility, happens almost everyday with bitcoin.

I would say whales are manipulating the currency when you see the price change by around 100-150 in a day.

Supply and demand did always affected bitcoin price, I thought 'the manipulation' they discuss here about some big players (millionaire/company/exchanges) all these connected to rise and fall of bitcoin price. What kind of manipulation that you realized since the beginning except those I mentioned, if you don't mind to share.

not an actual manipulation we're talking about I guess. It's just bunch of whales trying to get the advantage of the current condition by dumping or pumping and it's such a usual thing. An individual who has about a billion dollar worth of bitcoin could affect bitcoin directly with and give such a big effect compared to demands which were made by hundreds of people but only have low amount of money

yes it is a normal thing happened in trading world nothing strage here ,
and sometimes the dumpers or pumpers get lost too in this what you call 'manipulation' phase ,
as the market can go wild anytime ,
bitcoin market will never ever can be manipulated .

well its a normal phases usually in trading world because you know price in market is not stable just like the price of bitcoins. so Yes Manipulation is real. this is useful for those rich that commonly part of the system. if im on the same position i could usually take advantage of it. and one more thing everyday we're having a new investors in bitcoin that's why the graph of bitcoin is not stable

In india there are buying 1 bitcoin at the price of $950 or more than the price of global price but some indians are really smart buying bitcoin some of them are scammers hahaha they think that they can manipulate people too. But if there are going to be a trader they are going to be a pumper soon.

The ones who are buying bitcoins at that price are the ones who had black money in their pockets, because their government has banned higher denomination notes currently. They have nothing to do with the price that we see on preev, or even $1000 speculation. That's the beauty of bitcoins that it can be sold for separate rates at different places.

Not all people who choose to avoid banks are criminals and not all anonymous money is black. Probably the majority of the Indians' money flooding into Bitcoin recently was hard-earned.

Only in certain cultures are banks considered to be the "normal" place to store wealth. Indians have always favored physical gold for example as a way to store wealth long-term.

Not everyone lives (or wants to live) in the kind of oppressive regime where the government spies its citizens and monitors their individual holdings.

Actually in india people can't just use their cash to deposit in exchanger based on other countries due to strong foreign currency regulation they have. So as there are not much bitcoin within india but demand is very high which is ultimately making bitcoin price to surge within their local bitcoin trading platform.

I think this can be taken as huge artificial price rise by some bitcoin whales based on india as they can easily limit the total supply of bitcoin within india. In other words bitcoin holders are taking this opportunity to grab more profit on their bitcoins.

D-oh of course it's manipulation it's all there is left of bitcoin.

When you have a product that is flawed and doesn't work... isn't secure, is slow, doesn't scale, isn't being developed, is owned 95% by less than 10 people, is technically controlled by those same people... and is still hyped and "worth" hundreds of dollars, you have to be some very special kind of ignorant wacko to think that's legit and not manipulated.

I was actually thinking of that since I saw the price changes. The swing is more or less than $40. And it always happen when the price hit more or less than $750 and goes down again by $30-40 and goes up again.n Large swing for me and it happen often.

if someone has still the old fiat of india RS 500 and 1000 note, after the ban he can still use it for a short amount of time, they are still worth something, they are not banned immediately, so it make sense for those people to buy at higher price

When a market is small the one with more coins can manipulate the price, that's what happen to bitcoin way back 2013, and now that the market is huge, this one manipulator now form a group to make impact in the market and keep on manipulating the price.  Rather than being sour about it, just ride the wave, you will profit from it for sure.

I think right we can not say that the price is increase because of manipulation i think it is not and i think many company right now are investing in bitcoin since they are seen about bitcoin starting from 2014 until now that bitcoin is growing normally.. they are seen the benefits of bitcoin.
See steam they are now accepting bitcoin and other online stores some of them are accepting bitcoin unlike before.. because they know the price of bitcoin will increase more everytime the population is growing and more investors will come and more stores can accept bitcoin as payment that can support our bitcoin for more users to come.

I don't think you understand how pricing works. If someone dumps a large amount at one exchange, the price at that exchange will go diem and the others will not immediately change. That's not manipulation. That's selling btc.

I think you have to ignore any price rise or fall of less than 10%. This is Bitcoin, it goes up it goes down. Long term trend is currently 6% up per month but this could change at anytime to 20% up or down per month. Unless I see a 10%+ movement per day or a 20% movement in the week I am not interested, and no one else should be unless you are day trading - in which case 90% of you will probably be better off just HOLDING the other 10% will be making good money from it.

Day-trading bitcoin seems to yield more profit than holding it for a long time.
The little daily profits have a way of adding up fast ;D

You have a point that this is just a product of some dumpers on exchanged. But according to OP. The big drop is happened in a flash and it is not some kind of typical dump on exchange. Notice the unpredictable price increase/decrease. But for me this just a normal event. No manipulation involves.

The daily profits add up until the day you miss something and you get burned big time.
Day trading is a very good business, but it's a very risky one. Some love it, some hate it.
Many think of it as the ultimate method to get rich and jump into it without enough knowledge. *sigh*

yeah. we only hear day traders crowing about their successes. it's gambling pure and simple and if you throw in leverage it's degenerate gambling.

It depends on how you look at it. Right now there is some sort of panic buying going through the market, but as soon as that is cooling down, then there will be the expected ups and downs.

That's what day traders and other regular traders are anticipating on. I am not really a trader myself, but I am glad I am seeing the value of my coins go up.

It's fantastic to see that that all my efforts of collecting as many coins as possible below the $400 levels is paying off big time.

But I must admit that I secured some profits at $810 as it was a perfect timing. Right now my average profits are at least sitting at a level of 120%.

That is right. I do not see much manipulation.

yep, it depends on how good your stomach it. I don't recommend it, but there are people who love it and can't imagine trading the other way.
A good training is a must to start day-trading, though.

I think that nobody can manipulate the price for bitcoin. Bitcoin depends only from demand on bitcoin. When people will start to sell bitcoins the price will go down and when will be more buyers the price will rise. That's traditional law of the economy.

Well, I do not know, maybe someone could actually manipulate the price of bitcoin. we do not know who is playing in the background. may be they are the most bitcoin holders, or hacker. we never knew it. but I am sure, the current price rise occurred because of something that is normal and natural. Well, the price increase usually occurs at the end of the year, right?