Bitcoin Forum

Because the nation-states and banks are powerless to stop the lurch to crypto-currency and the global ledger. They simply don't have globalized jurisdiction. This creates a demand for a world government system, so that regulations can be placed on all countries at once. In this way, crypto-currency can be regulated later after the world government takes form. Until then, the nation-states will find themselves powerless to stop crypto-currency unless they shut off the Internet, which they can't do. Even China will succumb (the people already know how to use VPNs to subvert the Great Firewall of China).


This is why the nation-states will need to support the creation of a world government. Bitcoin is the Trojan horse that forces them to.


Well Bitcoin is traceable if you have the resources of the NSA, but other countries don't have those resources. And more anonymous coins are underway, so yes ultimately governments can't track it if they can't regulate it globally to force a government viewkey to be attached to every transaction. Again crypto-currency breaks the authority of nation-states and renders banks irrelevant. It thus drives the need for a world government and a world bank.


Grasshopper you don't think in sophisticated logic, and that is one reason why you could not ever be a member of the global elite.

Bitcoin is working perfectly as they designed it to do.

Ask yourself this. Does Bitcoin eliminate the need for people to borrow money and will Bitcoin prevent fractional reserve lending? The answer to both is no. And so the business of the global elite is still intact, while they destroy all their competitors with the Bitcoin Trojan horse.


That is of course what they knew you would think. Masterful their plan. They know very well, you could not possible conceive of them making Bitcoin and instead you want to believe that Satoshi Nakamoto is a real person. Lol. Larry Summers has a bellyache from laughing too much.

So, any tool that provides freedom to the individual instead of control for the state, is a Trojan horse that the state can use to justify increased control?

Does that mean the war is lost and we should simply give up?

If anything Zcash is the Trojan horse.
I won't feel sorry for any darknet vendors who accept this coin as payment, when the police show up at their door, and were able to somehow find their identity,,,

I think only when bitcoin is perfected and ALL anomalies bugs etc are dealt with conclusively will it then be regulated.All FREE things start like wild west with many bad seeds/weeds thrown in among the good/bad and the ugly like melting pot of chaotic innovation giving off impression of open and free however once regulation and other tyranny settle in step by step like boiling frog it will not be noticed but "maverick brand" and whatever cool buzzword still remain like designed form of freedom that is in reality opposite but this could be conspiracy theory off course and maybe be too paranoid but remember just because they are paranoid it does not mean the MAN is not watching you but does anyone really care when we are all sheople?

And this guy calls other people tinfoil hats, LOL

First, what is a "one world government," and second, are we assuming a "one world government" is a bad thing?  The fact of the matter is that we are on "one world" and we all have a specific responsibility to protect the one world we are on.  One nation, one religion, one ideology.....etc....shouldn't have the power to make all the decisions regarding how the world's resources are shared and distributed.  Bitcoin removes the necessity of requiring third parties to keep track of personal transactions, which reduces the control of centralized governing authorities.  A decentralized process of distributing wealth (goods, services, usury, torts...etc) also distributes responsibility in a more homogeneous manner which has the ability to negate centralized corruption. So, how might the elite benefit by creating a technology that allows the people to make their own decisions regarding the distribution of wealth?

This excellent retort and many good points made.Of course there are also many possibilities for anyone to take majority share of a decentralised structure either by buyout or monopoly production process and henceforth distribution affects decentralisation?

There are also other factors to consider such as the moving beyond the actual amount currency in control of hierarchial structures as being relevant when such structures already control and regulate all within full global economic and finally political ecosystem where the monetary aspect is concentrated on control of ledger/transaction processes as the regulatory and controlling authority while political aspect is security and resource distribution process allocation.

True control is not how wealthy one is.It is having legislative control and ability to know all things.Monetary wealth however a great advantage in the stepping stone process to access such priveledges through education/connections/collaborations etc etc less emphasis on collaborations as world moves towards knowledge based data economics where artifical intelligence is key player through neural based infrastructures and machine learning function abilities.

The real power players are already embedded but us minions must earn our place in the new order.Unless we all move to desert wilderness and live on the locusts and wild berries/honey this is the future.

Incorrect if you mean to imply that Bitcoin is not centralized:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1690725.msg16991114#msg16991114

The distinction is that the centralized entities are global. The nation-states can't regulate the miners. But the miners are centralized and will become ever more so. It is a winner-take-all economic paradigm. Why wouldn't the global elite love that?

Decentralized is not the same as distributed!

As we ratchet up the entropy levels, we attain greater degrees-of-freedom in society:

ok Im learning a lot more. Bitcoiners are also very paranoid.

Why even give Zcash a bad name.Any currency is not bad but the use we put it to is either bad or good.You can make donations with bitcoin or zcash or buy marijuana.It is entirely upto you

At first bitcoin is currency which has highest privacy protect nowdays.
Secondly, when you say that banks are powerless to stop lurch to cryptocurrency, you lie from this first proposal. Ask me in this question, who offers you bitcoin to usd exchange? Banks of course, who are mining companies? People who wants to take control on it and than manipulate price.
Also bitcoin is mostly used for money laundering and it's also good for both side ( for bankers and govermant ).

Again, the mystery of bitcoin's beginning and unknown identity of Satoshi Nakamoto is here to haunt us.
Do you think this discussion presenting bitcoin as something created by some government agency would take place if we knew who Satoshi is?

You didn't state anything that refuted the premise, "banks are powerless to stop lurch to cryptocurrency".

I didn't say that some banks wouldn't find some profit in Bitcoin. Nevertheless, as cryptocurrency becomes the currency of virtual commerce (and the lurch to the Knowledge Age which will overtake everything (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.0)), the national fiats the banks control, will become an ever smaller portion of the economic pie.

Also onboarding without going through fiat is now coming into reality (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1685115.msg16990024#msg16990024).



For the individuals in banking and government, but not for the nation-state jurisdiction scoped institutions.

I have an essay which I wrote for you to read about genius:

http://unheresy.com/Essence%20of%20Genius.html

Genius is able to distill the essence from the irrelevant.

I don't know for sure what will happen in the future about the growth of the bitcoin. However there are a few things you might want to do in this discussion, because without discussion then something will happen is a misunderstanding. so I better see all of what they say and looking for something that is right. Although satoshi never comes then I will believe the bitcoin will remain visible for

Bitcoin is far from being some trojan horse; if it was there would either be less push-back against it or more subtle acceptation of it globally, and we're not seeing that. Governments treat it like a threat, and the population is equally wary of it. Something being a trojan horse would be more accepted rather than rejected.

Also, for those suggesting a world government is a good thing; not on the banker's terms, and not before the rest of the world catches up to "first-world" status. The labor imbalances and new labor markets opening up for super cheap, along with societies further back in technology, are a net negative. Plus national culture is lost, among other things. Not a benefit.

Eh, could be, but I highly doubt it.  With Satoshi's identity being unknown, it is pretty interesting to speculate about how and why bitcoin was conceived.  And of course, who aside from "Satoshi" was behind it.  Could be a malignant government presence, could be just a computer geek.

If this is some evil government trojan horse, it's not taking like they thought it would, is it?

Dude, you didn't understand the OP.

The entire point is that it is a Trojan horse against (nation-state) governments. Of course they are fighting it, and that is consistent with it being a Trojan horse against them.


The population is going to accept it with open arms, once someone solves the onboarding and security problems. Both of which I've conceptually solved. Implementation follows.


Malthusians are always correct.  ::)

(they never are, never)

They always see a larger pie as impossible.

I hate being this way but I need to go grab my tinfoil hat for this discussion...


The things that got me concern are flying right a long at the same time as bitcoin and fall into the grasp for global domination but a elite group.
We have governments being over turned and trade deals going sour with a protectionist lean becoming the apparent new in thing.
The trick is making people believe that the changes they want are their own and not some concept dreamed up to strip the average citizen down into a drone.

These things happen over generations and look at the current deal with cell phones,everyone has one and they rely on them day to day like zombies.
You take away the internet and people would not know how to adjust and would need some one to guide them along,its a very easy path to see if you take your head out from where ever you have it tucked. It may not happen but it is quite easy to see happening.

Hell I am still scratching my head over gender categories for some new dating site,37 different sexes!!! I mean I can count 6 maybe by listing off the LGBTQ and adding hetro to the end.

So if you look at bitcoin...(Like I proved anything,more of a psychotic rant) you can see all the little aspects that have been shut down like negative interest rates and how a government sponsered coin could achieve these goals. Problems with the peons,strip their coins away in one sweep and have them beg for it back. Give it back but take away a little human right as you go.
If you find this hard to swallow think about the rights that went bye bye after 9/11.

As much as I like bitcoin I can see the perversion of it coming in quickly.

When I say that it is decentralized....I mean that no single entity has control over the contents of the ledger.  It is too cost prohibitive to roll back the entire ledger in order to change it's contents every time a change is required to be manifested....While there might be issues with a concentration of hashing power which has the effect of  disenfranchising smaller operations....that aspect of the technology is self mitigating in the long run.  But, my question is: how will the global elite (whoever they are) take advantage of being able to regulate the miners?  If we have the individual freedom to engage in transactions without the burden of having to trust a third party to manipulate the tally sheet, then how would that be oppressive to us?  If we view bitcoin as a means to exchange goods and services, as opposed to a means to "create wealth" out of thin air, then it's future is not so divisive.  

Right now when we put our money into the bank, the banks are taking that money and giving it to somebody else to turn a profit by manipulating their centralized ledgers to reflect that there is more money then there actually is in circulation....That form of currency is not backed by actual goods and services; in fact, it dilutes the value of our accumulated store of goods and services at an exponential rate....I just don't see how that devaluation could be coerced while we maintain an immutable ledger.

Proof-of-work mining is a winner-take-all economic paradigm:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1319681.msg16957687#msg16957687
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67111f328822a36beb4cad1a5220eb33

But, how will they get my corn when I don't want their currency?  And, how will they recruit my labor if I am unable to purchase my food with their payment option?  They can have all the bitcoin in the world....it won't mean a thing if there isn't a willingness to use it to exchange real world production for real world service.....a measure's worth of food for a measure's worth of labor.  <----that's what everything boils down to and that is mankind's default setting....How will the global elite force us to use their platform when we decide  it has no use?

You are looking at this from a sane mans vantage but this is not what we are dealing with in context to a dominating power,seeking to control the world.
In the Western world we think free will is ours and in more destroyed areas of the world people realize it is not free.
If any man can be broken through torture,what hope do you think bitcoiners have of staying above the water when government turns their gaze in our direction!
Its easy to spin and if you have money it is a tool you use to crush any opposition. Bitcoin can barely get the word out about its  self to the world and we think its going to survive a attack?
Not saying you are wrong because I think you are looking at bitcoin through a lens of bitcoin only and I like to pan out and look at the world shifts of late to draw in to the bitcoin discussion.
Mans default setting is different for some,if you read any holocaust books,they talk about some people surviving well others gave in. Its a very strange aspect about humans and I always wonder about that when ISIS is rounding up these men and they bunch together like this is not happening. Not judging them but it makes me uneasy seeing that aspect of life,it forces me to contemplate some values.

You attribute far too little apathy and far too much awareness to the sheepeople.

Besides there is a stronger force in play. Society can't function in complete chaos. Society requires a winner, especially w.r.t. to money.

So which money is society going to choose when all the globalized options are winner-take-all power vacuums? Would the people prefer their corrupt nation-state currencies and be shut off from a global marketplace?

India this week (with the cancellation of their largest currency notes) is a prime example. So the government can stop people from avoiding taxes and force them to give their money to government funded corruption. Yet of course the MSM tells you that ending black money is about reducing corruption, which is a lie. Idealistically taxes should always be voluntary.

Yes....I agree and I thought about that after I posted.  However, having a network already in place which brings the people together with a common goal actually shifts the power in a downward and outward direction, as opposed to an upward and inner concentration....ad unum omnes.  Yes, they could force us all into labor camps that serve their decadence, but is that something that the world will accept without a Marxist type of uprising?  Distributed networks aren't new, they're just digitized now.  Distributed intelligence networks proved effective in surviving the Russian Gulags. (The Gulag Archipelago: Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, 1973).  How much more could blockchain technology fasten the distribution of information in such a way that makes it impossible to cut the head off of a movement?  A movement that has no leader?

cjmoles & Milkduds,

The globalists have ultimate control over the mining cartel that ultimately captures Bitcoin. Proof-of-work can't remain decentralized (even without scaling, but even more true the more it scales). Period. It is economically impossible.

So you can be as organized as you want to be, but that still doesn't give you any alternative money system which your idealistic hearts can prevent the powers-that-be from controlling.

I think both of you guys would prefer not to live in a civilization and instead revoke the maximum division-of-labor (i.e. Adam Smith's Invisible Hand) and go live "on the other side of moon" at the standard-of-living of the Amish. Well actually worse than that, because at least the Amish acknowledge trade with the outside world and its money system.

The rest of the world will not follow you there...

But....if they "capture" all the bitcoin, then the bitcoin will have no value.  So, what would the motivation be behind the "globalist controlled mining cartels" acquisition of all the bitcoin.  Plus, mining requires energy, energy requires work, and work requires laborers....doesn't this describe a division of labor which promotes distribution of wealth?  That's not even to question what the effects of halving has on the mining outfits, nor does it address the consequences of full dilution....So, this is it: we can keep the fractional reserve banking systems and trust that the elite wont pull the carpet out from under us, or we can take out the middle man and reap what we sow.

A splendid interview with Doug Casey that can put all your worries about the world government to rest.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/11/nick-giambruno/nation-states-brink-failure/

I dont think that bitcoin is the one that will be used but it defiantly paves the way for another government controlled currency, using crypto.

Doug Casey is a smart idiot, like most other tinfoil hats.

The disintegration of large nation-states into a plethora of smaller ones is precisely what creates the power vacuum that will make the world government possible. Duh.

Why do you think that Rothshilds is protecting Wikileaks and encouraging the destruction of the nation-state, by exposing corruption and for example fomenting a civil war between liberals and conservatives in the USA.

Capturing the control over mining doesn't transfer all the Bitcoin to them (each BTC holder can have control over his/her own private keys). It just means they can control what they want to control such as turning off the ability to transact for someone they deem to be a problem (the 666 Digital Kill Switch I predicted in 2013). They could then also inflate the money supply beyond 21 million coins and/or set transaction fees as high as the market will bear.

https://gist.github.com/shelby3/e90a45604969f1ed64395b0b72a56487
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/c0d6e0ed132be7e4577df3663c81ee09
https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67111f328822a36beb4cad1a5220eb33

That doesn't necessarily destroy the value of Bitcoin if they manage it well. It can also increase the value of Bitcoin, because it becomes an approved and accepted form of money in their IMF, World Bank, UN, etc global institutional system.

If Doug Casey was an idiot, he'd be poor like a certain big mouth on these forums.

One world government was possible on the basis of creating large unions of countries (EU), this is now falling apart. US is divided too. How do you govern hundreds of small tribes? Power vacuum will not happen, there are a lot of leaders hungry for power, the vacuum will be filled on all levels at light speed.

Op shame on you to burst bitcoiners bubble. They should ask epistemological questions - how bitcoin help the world? Does it underlies the mechanisms of the world? No. Does it make usury obsolete? Hell no... most of bitcoin users are happy earning money doing absolutely nothing at someone else expense. Does it makes superpowers weaker? No. It makes China stronger by them having most of bitcoin mines. And USA have a new "threat" on their list justifying enourmous spendings on surveilance.

Instead they think of bitcoin Ontologicly. By asking what is it? They say its just a tool. Its cool. It makes me rich therefore its good etc etc.

Thanks for your great OP that made me thinking of this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1695006.0

No, I don't think that bitcoin is the trojan horse because it is already in the public the bitcoin so it is not something secret.

And one thing that we should notice is that if the governments want they can shut down and ban the bitcoin businesses and the bitcoin infrastructure itself.

I think these "Blockchain based" technologies that are being created by R3 and the banks might be the first step towards that agenda. They

need a technology where they have the control, and Bitcoin is definitely not a technology that are being controlled by a single entity. Would

you choose Bitcoin, if that was your agenda.. Nope, you would get a team of developers to develop your own "Tool" so that you can control

and manipulate all the aspects of this technology... not wait for consensus from the public to do what you want to do.  ;)

You bring some good points, but don't you think you are making big assumptions without knowing the actual truth? You are assuming that every country on the planet would agree to be part of that so called World Government, because you are assuming no country would benefit from leaving bitcoin free outside of their business. I claim this is not the case. There will always be some countries that find business into not being part of that World Government while being positive towards bitcoin. For example, I see countries like Switzerland becoming a place that will be very supportive of bitcoin. In fact, they are right now going on that direction:

https://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/further-services/bitcoin.html

Simply put: No matter what, I don't see a global agreement ever happening. There will always be places that will let you host bitcoin nodes, and have financial privacy, therefore the network will always exist.

You also claim how the NSA has unlimited resources to track users, yet, according to leaked Snowden documents, NSA is on record saying how much they literally hate TOR. Now, we know that TOR is the work of the NSA/US intelligence itself, yet we have documents that prove they hate their own creation... this could be extrapolated to Bitcoin assuming that the conspiracy theory of Bitcoin being the work of the NSA (or any government agency you want to link it to). If that were to be true, then it could also be true that they hate their own creation because it got out of their hands and now they can't control it.

In any case, I still think Satoshi Nakamoto is not necessary a single person but a small group of crypto-anarchists/hackers, some of them might be current Bitcoin developers (Adam Back is credited in the whitepaper for example). I don't buy the conspiracy theory, but I will admit we can't fully know, just like we can't fully know how the universe was created, yet you seem to talk as if you know the truth when at the end of the day we are just having some fun speculating about it.

The original Trojan horse was publicly wheeled inside the gates. Study history.


Lol, you entirely didn't understand the thread. Try again to read.

In your case, pride cometh before the fall. In Doug's he is smart enough, as I said. He is still a tinfoil hat idiot. He managed to hire some people who are not idiots.



Thanks for confirming you don't know the applicable meaning of "power vacuum" in this context.

Look at china. They had so many people that they decided a democracy would be unsupportable. How can a single government represent the interests of 7 billion people?

The world government will initially not concern itself with issues of local culture, but rather of issues which can only be regulated with a global jurisdiction, such as the regulation of crypto-currency, the SDR international reserve currency basket, and nuclear waste safety.

You clearly do not notice the log that is in your own eye.

Correct distribution is the key and ensures the best possible outcome with regards the decentralisation process.Also with todays scenario it is not impossible for the backend monopoly to simply buy the majority of coins mined already while ensuring the price remains feasable for such an operation while having the resources to dominate the mining sector.If you control both the price and the production process you have the ideal monopoly and you just need majority share for full spectrum control while giving a very convincing appearance of decentralisation "power to the people".The visible system itself will be more interested in the blockchain looking for those tax dodgers etc.NOTE to self:Remember to change signature to shelby's new project when he is good to go

You already have the International Court of Justice, United Nations, Security Council, etc...
Even if we do move to a world government, what matters is the powers it has. If most of the power is in the hands of the nation states, it will just be status quo.
The presence of a common world currency won't make any difference.

It is nice to read an intelligent comment such as this.  8)


The economics of Bitcoin's security model are well tuned to force control by the global "State":

Bitcoin and distributed ledger tech certainly set the stage for world government.  I would bet that was not Nakamoto's intention but dumb government types cant come up with this stuff on their own.

That is how it starts, look at the euro zone, the experiment began long time ago with a body that had small powers and as time has passed that power has increased to what we have today, and they keep pushing to obtain even more power.

Its not really a shocking thing anymore since every country will really push hard to gain more power and the explanation and example regarding euro is very true. Its just took a little part at first but now its considered as one of the most powerful. Regarding to bitcoin it would really took up time and many things to be discussed first before it will fully adopted.

I don't like the way that people have viewed bitcoin and despise it's use to become a valid means of exchanging something for it's value.
It makes me sad really to think that people just won't forget about it's tainted past. :'(

You still not addressed my point here:


which is a very solid premise in as to why it is irrelevant if Bitcoin is or isn't work of the NSA, since the NSA created Tor, and now the NSA is on record privately hating Tor because they cannot control it and we know it thanks to the Snowden leaks, therefore, Bitcoin could end up the same way if the conspiracy of Satoshi = NSA or affiliates, would be real, which I very doubt so. I still think it was a group of Cryptographers, one of them being Adam Back which is credited in the whitepaper